From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 1 09:14:21 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:14:21 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It's Come To This! Message-ID: <4C52E456D06B467E9B8D6EA5DF72A5A0@YOURB88038198E> Folks, I am back in South Carolina. It will take me a week to catch up on email. On the trip up north, here are observations on truck traffic, that is trucking that is illustrative of commerce. My comments are on I-81 from Fort Chiswell, Va. to Harrisburg, Pa then I-78 to I-287, the New York Metro western perimeter. Truck traffic was moderate to moderately heavy for a non terminal destination day. To me this means that we are not in a recession or depression. Maybe not booming because this was still before Christmas, but that amount of truck traffic was noticeable and therefore significant. This is based on having traveled that truck route for 40 years. Traffic to New York perimeter from New Hampshire was typically moderate to heavy. From Philadelphia to Baltimore on I-95 was moderate to heavy truck and car. Return to South Carolina via route on I- 81 from Winchester, Va. to Fort Chiswell on a weekday. Moderate truck traffic and very heavy four wheeler traffic. This had to be major inter holiday travel day. The car traffic slowed the typical speed on the interstates because of poky holiday travelers slowly passing of 18 wheelers. This increased driving time by at least 10%. Traffic from I-81 down the mountain on I -77 to Charlotte, NC was very heavy, both in truck and car. It included major accident at bottom of Fancy Gap at Virginia mile marker 3 which I had heard about on radio and bypassed by taking old road, Hwy 52, down the mountain and around problem. Trucks would not take this route and few cars knew of it so I bypassed major delay. My opinion is that overall traffic was very heavy this Christmas. It was not indicative of major recession or economic depression. Now my question is, was it a real picture or people taking final fling before major economic problems. Now the Christmas bubble is past. However, the true economic picture will not be known until March 2010. Consider that the bubbles' economic effects will not be evident until adjustments are made in the new weeks. The effects of those adjustments will start to become evident in February, but an accurate picture will not be available until the economic data for February is in which will be March 2010. For the present, the picture is a strong economy. Now how much will the Galt effect have? How much will the antipathy of the national economic policies effect the numbers will only begin to been identified in March, if there is an effect. Now I will spend the next few days digesting the comments posted hereon in the last two weeks. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/d03e62cc/attachment.html From elginalexander at erols.com Fri Jan 1 11:34:05 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (L. John Friia) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:34:05 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Islamic Game Plan Message-ID: <91BF7D15617B4FBFB6B9047DE71B528F@Xanthus> Below is an e-mail I recently received with information, although not particularly new, certainly worthy of renewed thought. Elgin Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.. Here's how it works: As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in: United States -- Muslim 0.6% (and growing!) Australia -- Muslim 1.5% Canada -- Muslim 1.9% China -- Muslim 1.8% Italy -- Muslim 1.5% Norway -- Muslim 1.8% At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in: Denmark -- Muslim 2% Germany -- Muslim 3.7% United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7% Spain -- Muslim 4% Thailand -- Muslim 4.6% >From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in: France -- Muslim 8% Philippines -- 5% Sweden -- Muslim 5% Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3% The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5% Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8% At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in: Guyana -- Muslim 10% India -- Muslim 13.4% Israel -- Muslim 16% Kenya -- Muslim 10% Russia -- Muslim 15% After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in: Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8% At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in: Bosnia -- Muslim 40% Chad -- Muslim 53.1% Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7% >From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in: Albania -- Muslim 70% Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4% Qatar -- Muslim 77.5% Sudan -- Muslim 70% After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in: Bangladesh -- Muslim 83% Egypt -- Muslim 90% Gaza -- Muslim 98.7% Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1% Iran -- Muslim 98% Iraq -- Muslim 97% Jordan -- Muslim 92% Morocco -- Muslim 98.7% Pakistan -- Muslim 97% Palestine -- Muslim 99% Syria -- Muslim 90% Tajikistan -- Muslim 90% Turkey -- Muslim 99.8% United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96% 100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in: Afghanistan -- Muslim 100% Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100% Somalia -- Muslim 100% Yemen -- Muslim 100% Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons. 'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel.' -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj' It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable by death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate. Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century. Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse. The wolves are herding the sheep! Obama Appoints two devout Muslims to homeland security posts. Doesn't this make you feel safer already? Obama and Janet Napolitano Appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development DHS. Secretary Janet Napolitano swore-in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim, who was born in Damascus, Syria as ADC National Executive Director as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC). NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, a devout Jew or a devout Protestant...? Just wondering. Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? That should make our homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not "Devout Muslim men" that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8 years ago? Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/de69aa1f/attachment-0001.html From bill at effros.com Fri Jan 1 11:51:00 2010 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:51:00 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It's Come To This! In-Reply-To: <400985d70912311545y98740d1s2e1ad2866d75740a@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70912310613x4b8b9devf1febb1c90e13e08@mail.gmail.com> <400985d70912310658u7fed87e5sf63415d928cdc449@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a890912310804h3c3a091dm2a9b071b2f59ce22@mail.gmail.com> <400985d70912310851v41c12bdqc07a566540136f95@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a890912311045j152ded8x36df0bcacf28a023@mail.gmail.com> <400985d70912311049g1e25ed82w3c1b4e635c396f9b@mail.gmail.com> <5B483DDF274046B6BAB5CAE1541D2550@ebsoffice> <400985d70912311545y98740d1s2e1ad2866d75740a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B3E27F4.9040604@effros.com> Congratulations, Brad, Have you ever been to the Tokyo fish market early in the morning? B. Brad Haslett wrote: > Mike, > > I'll be here for New Years - watch the Liberty Bowl on TV. Usually, > they sell 20K tickets but this year it will be sold out because > Arkansas is playing. A buddy of mine, former QB for U of Memphis, got > me two tickets. My first wife just called and is "under the weather" > so I'll go with my oldest son instead of his Mom. I've got a sim > scheduled the next day and the day after. Frankly, they had to drag > me "kicking and screaming" into the 21st Century of flying with all > the new "glass". I discussed this next move with lot's of people, > Bill E for one, and some other friends who fly for airlines > internationally, and decided in the end to give this "one more whirl". > The airplane itself is awesome - it just holds too much gas. I've got > a couple of days off in Tokyo, time to revisit some Buddhist gardens > with my Kindle in tow, and then a short stay in Shanghai. I plan to > regroup with Slim's musician friend at his jazz club in Shanghai. Ask > me again in a month if this is the new start on a second phase of a > career or the beginning of retirement. My buddies at the passenger > airlines are all trying to figure out how to quit. Waaaay too much > hassle these days. > > Brad > > On 12/31/09, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > >> Brad, >> >> Hey, don't be leaving me any blue ice presents on your way over! >> >> Have a great time. Happy New Years (both, or will you be back by then?). >> >> Mike >> >> >> From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:49 PM >> Herb, >> >> http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/ >> >> It freaking fly's itself. I'm along for the ride and the typing (but >> for what it's worth, she fly's like a real airplane and I can fly the >> shit out of an airplane). >> >> No bragging, or course. >> >> Brad >> >> On 12/31/09, Herb Parsons wrote: >> >>> New toy? New toy as in new plan, new computer, what's up? >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Herb, >>>> >>>> You can't solve a problem until you identify the problem. What is the >>>> problem? There are people who want to kill us! Who are these people? >>>> Mostly (99.999 %) Muslim males between the ages of 18-50 (some of the >>>> over 50 crowd from that group want to kill us too but don't have the >>>> balls, like our friend in Detroit now, to do it themselves). >>>> >>>> If Amish farmers wearing black hats and long beards suddenly took a >>>> liking to blowing-up airplanes, we probably would profile them. In the >>>> one minority community I'm associated with by marriage, they "police >>>> their own", on some pretty harsh terms sometimes. It is time for CAIR >>>> in this country and their equivalents in Europe to "step up to the >>>> plate". Once again, we have a child of privilege who is a terrorist. >>>> >>>> It ain't gonna happen under Obama. He, of all people, started his >>>> political career in the living room of a "child of privilege" who was >>>> a terrorist, Bill Ayers. We're on our own until this guy is out of >>>> office. >>>> >>>> Sheeple! Let me state that another way, SHEEPLE, SHEEPLE, SHEEPLE, >>>> SHEEPLE..... >>>> >>>> Will this end? Yes, of course it will. We're spending at a rate that >>>> is unsustainable and getting nothing for it. It will end. Badly! >>>> >>>> BTW - tag, you're it! Run the world for me next month. I'm headed for >>>> Asia in my new toy for a few days. Wish me luck on my typing skills. >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> On 12/31/09, Herb Parsons wrote: >>>> >>>>> The former federal prosecutor's statement is key on this particular >>>>> incident: >>>>> >>>>> "it strikes me that they?re more aggressive with this reporter than >>>>> with >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>>> guy who got on this flight.? >>>>> >>>>> This administration is very much in "protect our tailends" mode, >>>>> rather >>>>> than "protect our people" mode. Thus Napolitano's original claim that >>>>> the >>>>> system worked. Of course it worked. It *had* to work. If not, that >>>>> would >>>>> obviously mean something was wrong, and we can't have something wrong >>>>> in >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>>> administration. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Brad Haslett >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Update - >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/12/dhs-threatens-blogger/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12/31/09, Brad Haslett wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember the website you were exposed to the other day? Flying With >>>>>>> Fish? Well, the TSA seized his computer and he's in some hot water. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/yg7h4vu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there anyone who doesn't know the new rules from reading a paper >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> watching TV? Anyone flown in the past few days? Did they explain >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> new rules? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is YOUR government going after a private citizen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope and Change, Baby! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brad >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From elginalexander at erols.com Fri Jan 1 11:56:11 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (L. John Friia) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:56:11 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] MSM Double Standard Message-ID: <8AAC872E2E6D45E3A961ED1AB27BA447@Xanthus> Hi, Brad, Thanks for the update on Bush's response to Richard Reid - and I concur completely on your additional assessments. We have much too many pseudo-intellects whose only credentials are that the attended "prestigious" universities either compliments daddy's pocketbook or affirmative action/political correctness. The bottom line is still that, to the detriment of the nation, journalism has lost its major function - to be the investigative eyes and ears of the society - and has long maintained a lapdog posture, fawning obsequiously and drooling over the latest "celebrity." Elgin P.S. Hard to believe that you have never gotten to "know" at least one virgin. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/b498536c/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 12:03:32 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:03:32 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It's Come To This! In-Reply-To: <4C52E456D06B467E9B8D6EA5DF72A5A0@YOURB88038198E> References: <4C52E456D06B467E9B8D6EA5DF72A5A0@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d71001010903k14e40521i306ffe416355e7e0@mail.gmail.com> Ed, What you witnessed on the highways was predicted by our CEO. You can't run a business off of empty shelves forever, and the transportation sector reflects the need to restock inventory. I haven't seen the final numbers for Christmas retail sales, but going into the last week they were still down over 3% from the previous years sales (it could have been a lot worse). What is most worrisome about the next several quarters is real estate. Home foreclosures continue to accelerate and we haven't even scratched the surface on commercial real estate. Until those markets clear and deflation settles, we won't see a strong recovery. As I posted a few days ago, the Obama administration wants unchallenged and unlimited resources to pour into Fannie & Freddie. It won't matter, no amount of money is going to save real estate. The $8000 first-time homebuyer credit goosed sales a bit, but, there's literally hundreds of thousands of homes that people can't afford or are seriously upside-down in - that market needs to be allowed to clear and that will take some time. Again (and I can't say this loudly enough or often enough), the long term threat to our economy is the massive borrowing at the federal level. Last week, another China bank CEO put out the warning, there's only so much money in the world and China has all the dollar exposure they want. It will take someone a lot smarter than me to explain how we can possibly avoid another "Carter era" of malaise with high unemployment and high inflation. On the other hand, if you work for the 'gubmint', things perhaps never looked better (see below). We would have to increase our current tax rates "THREE FOLD" just to keep-up with current spending. As Herb Stein is famous for saying, "when something can't go on forever, it won't". Brad --------------- It's a wonderful life working for the government By: Michael Barone Senior Political Analyst December 30, 2009 Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, speaks with the Associated Press during an interview in his Washington office, Friday, Oct. 9, 2009. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari) It looks like a happy new year for you -- if you're a public employee. That's the takeaway from a recent Rasmussen poll that shows that 46 percent of government employees say the economy is getting better while just 31 percent say it's getting worse. In contrast, 32 percent of those with private-sector jobs say the economy is getting better, while 49 percent it is getting worse. Nearly half, 44 percent, of government employees rate their personal finances as good or excellent. Only 33 percent of private-sector employees do. It sounds like public- and private-sector employees are looking at different Americas. And they are. Private-sector employment peaked at 115.8 million in December 2007, when the recession officially began. It was down to 108.5 million last November. That's a 6 percent decline. Public-sector employment peaked at 22.6 million in August 2008. It fell a bit in 2009, then has rebounded back to 22.5 million in November. That's less than a 1 percent decline. This is not an accident; it is the result of deliberate public policy. About one-third of the $787 billion stimulus package passed in February 2009 was directed at state and local governments, which have been facing declining revenues and are, mostly, required to balance their budgets. The policy aim, Democrats say, was to maintain public services and aid. The political aim, although Democrats don't say so, was to maintain public-sector jobs -- and the flow of union dues to the public employees unions that represent almost 40 percent of public-sector workers. Those unions in turn have contributed generously to Democrats. Services Employee International Union head Andy Stern, the most frequent nongovernment visitor to the Obama White House, has boasted that his union steered $60 million to Democrats in the 2008 cycle. The total union contribution to Democrats has been estimated at $400 million. In effect, some significant portion of the stimulus package can be regarded as taxpayer funding of the Democratic Party. Needless to say, no Republicans need apply. One must concede that there is something to the argument that maintaining government spending levels helps people in need and provides essential public services. Something, but not everything. For it's more difficult to cut waste and unnecessary spending from government agencies than from private-sector businesses. As Charles Peters, founder of the neoliberal Washington Monthly, noted years ago, when government is ordered to cut spending, it does things like closing the Washington Monument to visitors. Tourists from the 50 states and 435 congressional districts quickly squawk to their members of Congress, and the spending cuts are rescinded. When businesses must cut, they do so with an eye to profits -- which is to say, with an eye to providing consumers with goods and services they need enough to be willing to pay for. They tend to lay off unproductive employees while striving to retain productive ones. Governments, restrained by civil service rules and often by union contracts, do not have similar incentives. As for the argument that maintaining government payrolls pumps money into the private-sector economy -- well, where does that government money come from? From private-sector employees and employers or from those who buy government bonds and who must be repaid by government in the future. At some point -- and this already has occurred in much of Western Europe -- public sector spending tends to choke off private-sector growth. America's current high unemployment levels have been commonplace in much of Western Europe for the last 25 years. The question now is whether they will become commonplace in the United States in the decade ahead. The decision by the Obama administration and the Democratic Congress to hold public-sector employees in place while the private sector is gravely weakened has the potential to place us on that trajectory. The unemployment data show that this recession has had a much greater effect on private-sector workers than on public employees, on men than on women, on blue-collar workers than on white-collar employees. This seems not to have gone unnoticed. Democrats have been surprised that so many downscale voters oppose their big spending programs. Maybe many of those voters have noticed how much of that spending has gone to public-sector union members, leaving the rest of America with a less than happy new year. Michael Barone, The Examiner's senior political analyst, can be contacted at mbarone at washingtonexaminer.com. His columns appear Wednesday and Sunday, and his stories and blog posts appear on ExaminerPolitics.com. On 1/1/10, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Folks, > > I am back in South Carolina. It will take me a week to catch up on email. > > On the trip up north, here are observations on truck traffic, that is > trucking that is illustrative of commerce. My comments are on I-81 from > Fort Chiswell, Va. to Harrisburg, Pa then I-78 to I-287, the New York Metro > western perimeter. > > Truck traffic was moderate to moderately heavy for a non terminal > destination day. To me this means that we are not in a recession or > depression. Maybe not booming because this was still before Christmas, but > that amount of truck traffic was noticeable and therefore significant. This > is based on having traveled that truck route for 40 years. > > Traffic to New York perimeter from New Hampshire was typically moderate to > heavy. From Philadelphia to Baltimore on I-95 was moderate to heavy truck > and car. > > Return to South Carolina via route on I- 81 from Winchester, Va. to Fort > Chiswell on a weekday. Moderate truck traffic and very heavy four wheeler > traffic. This had to be major inter holiday travel day. The car traffic > slowed the typical speed on the interstates because of poky holiday > travelers slowly passing of 18 wheelers. This increased driving time by at > least 10%. > > Traffic from I-81 down the mountain on I -77 to Charlotte, NC was very > heavy, both in truck and car. It included major accident at bottom of Fancy > Gap at Virginia mile marker 3 which I had heard about on radio and bypassed > by taking old road, Hwy 52, down the mountain and around problem. Trucks > would not take this route and few cars knew of it so I bypassed major delay. > > My opinion is that overall traffic was very heavy this Christmas. It was > not indicative of major recession or economic depression. Now my question > is, was it a real picture or people taking final fling before major economic > problems. Now the Christmas bubble is past. However, the true economic > picture will not be known until March 2010. > > Consider that the bubbles' economic effects will not be evident until > adjustments are made in the new weeks. The effects of those adjustments > will start to become evident in February, but an accurate picture will not > be available until the economic data for February is in which will be March > 2010. For the present, the picture is a strong economy. > > Now how much will the Galt effect have? How much will the antipathy of the > national economic policies effect the numbers will only begin to been > identified in March, if there is an effect. > > Now I will spend the next few days digesting the comments posted hereon in > the last two weeks. > > Ed K > > From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 12:19:34 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:19:34 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It's Come To This! In-Reply-To: <4B3E27F4.9040604@effros.com> References: <400985d70912310613x4b8b9devf1febb1c90e13e08@mail.gmail.com> <400985d70912310658u7fed87e5sf63415d928cdc449@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a890912310804h3c3a091dm2a9b071b2f59ce22@mail.gmail.com> <400985d70912310851v41c12bdqc07a566540136f95@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a890912311045j152ded8x36df0bcacf28a023@mail.gmail.com> <400985d70912311049g1e25ed82w3c1b4e635c396f9b@mail.gmail.com> <5B483DDF274046B6BAB5CAE1541D2550@ebsoffice> <400985d70912311545y98740d1s2e1ad2866d75740a@mail.gmail.com> <4B3E27F4.9040604@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001010919g655bde4bl4a5b71a0b2e29fa9@mail.gmail.com> Bill, To be perfectly honest, I've only been to Tokyo one time. We took the fast train into the city one time to spend some time in the "Salaryman" district for happy hour. All the rest of my time has been spent in Narita (airport area). There used to be two old blind men who were "eel choppers" outside a small market near the hotel. I'd watch them for several minutes a day as they would grab eels and dissect them with sharp knives, jabbering away the whole time. They still had all their digits so they knew what they were doing. I've only got 36 hours in Japan this trip and I'll have to use a fair amount of that for studying. Over the course of the next 10 years, I'll be back many, many times. I'll have to check out the fish market. Brad On 1/1/10, Bill Effros wrote: > Congratulations, Brad, > > Have you ever been to the Tokyo fish market early in the morning? > > B. > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Mike, >> >> I'll be here for New Years - watch the Liberty Bowl on TV. Usually, >> they sell 20K tickets but this year it will be sold out because >> Arkansas is playing. A buddy of mine, former QB for U of Memphis, got >> me two tickets. My first wife just called and is "under the weather" >> so I'll go with my oldest son instead of his Mom. I've got a sim >> scheduled the next day and the day after. Frankly, they had to drag >> me "kicking and screaming" into the 21st Century of flying with all >> the new "glass". I discussed this next move with lot's of people, >> Bill E for one, and some other friends who fly for airlines >> internationally, and decided in the end to give this "one more whirl". >> The airplane itself is awesome - it just holds too much gas. I've got >> a couple of days off in Tokyo, time to revisit some Buddhist gardens >> with my Kindle in tow, and then a short stay in Shanghai. I plan to >> regroup with Slim's musician friend at his jazz club in Shanghai. Ask >> me again in a month if this is the new start on a second phase of a >> career or the beginning of retirement. My buddies at the passenger >> airlines are all trying to figure out how to quit. Waaaay too much >> hassle these days. >> >> Brad >> >> On 12/31/09, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >> >>> Brad, >>> >>> Hey, don't be leaving me any blue ice presents on your way over! >>> >>> Have a great time. Happy New Years (both, or will you be back by then?). >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:49 PM >>> Herb, >>> >>> http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/ >>> >>> It freaking fly's itself. I'm along for the ride and the typing (but >>> for what it's worth, she fly's like a real airplane and I can fly the >>> shit out of an airplane). >>> >>> No bragging, or course. >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On 12/31/09, Herb Parsons wrote: >>> >>>> New toy? New toy as in new plan, new computer, what's up? >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Brad Haslett >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Herb, >>>>> >>>>> You can't solve a problem until you identify the problem. What is the >>>>> problem? There are people who want to kill us! Who are these people? >>>>> Mostly (99.999 %) Muslim males between the ages of 18-50 (some of the >>>>> over 50 crowd from that group want to kill us too but don't have the >>>>> balls, like our friend in Detroit now, to do it themselves). >>>>> >>>>> If Amish farmers wearing black hats and long beards suddenly took a >>>>> liking to blowing-up airplanes, we probably would profile them. In the >>>>> one minority community I'm associated with by marriage, they "police >>>>> their own", on some pretty harsh terms sometimes. It is time for CAIR >>>>> in this country and their equivalents in Europe to "step up to the >>>>> plate". Once again, we have a child of privilege who is a terrorist. >>>>> >>>>> It ain't gonna happen under Obama. He, of all people, started his >>>>> political career in the living room of a "child of privilege" who was >>>>> a terrorist, Bill Ayers. We're on our own until this guy is out of >>>>> office. >>>>> >>>>> Sheeple! Let me state that another way, SHEEPLE, SHEEPLE, SHEEPLE, >>>>> SHEEPLE..... >>>>> >>>>> Will this end? Yes, of course it will. We're spending at a rate that >>>>> is unsustainable and getting nothing for it. It will end. Badly! >>>>> >>>>> BTW - tag, you're it! Run the world for me next month. I'm headed for >>>>> Asia in my new toy for a few days. Wish me luck on my typing skills. >>>>> >>>>> Brad >>>>> >>>>> On 12/31/09, Herb Parsons wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The former federal prosecutor's statement is key on this particular >>>>>> incident: >>>>>> >>>>>> "it strikes me that they?re more aggressive with this reporter than >>>>>> with >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>>> guy who got on this flight.? >>>>>> >>>>>> This administration is very much in "protect our tailends" mode, >>>>>> rather >>>>>> than "protect our people" mode. Thus Napolitano's original claim that >>>>>> the >>>>>> system worked. Of course it worked. It *had* to work. If not, that >>>>>> would >>>>>> obviously mean something was wrong, and we can't have something wrong >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>>> administration. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Brad Haslett >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Update - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/12/dhs-threatens-blogger/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/31/09, Brad Haslett wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Remember the website you were exposed to the other day? Flying With >>>>>>>> Fish? Well, the TSA seized his computer and he's in some hot water. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/yg7h4vu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anyone who doesn't know the new rules from reading a paper >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> watching TV? Anyone flown in the past few days? Did they explain >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> new rules? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is YOUR government going after a private citizen. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hope and Change, Baby! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 12:27:19 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:27:19 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] MSM Double Standard In-Reply-To: <8AAC872E2E6D45E3A961ED1AB27BA447@Xanthus> References: <8AAC872E2E6D45E3A961ED1AB27BA447@Xanthus> Message-ID: <400985d71001010927n2bc2ce4dvb93d947099ab8ab2@mail.gmail.com> Elgin, Regarding your last statement, I have known at least one, me. No matter how much technology we throw at the security issue, we'll always be one step behind the bad guys. These new body scanners won't detect "butt bombs" (C4 shoved up the anus). We have to develop a system that recognizes "safe" travelers and allows for additional scrutiny of potential terrorists. That's a political issue, not a technological one. The "system" has been continually tested since 9/11. We've been incredibly lucky so far. Brad On 1/1/10, L. John Friia wrote: > Hi, Brad, > > Thanks for the update on Bush's response to Richard Reid - and I concur > completely on your additional assessments. We have much too many > pseudo-intellects whose only credentials are that the attended "prestigious" > universities either compliments daddy's pocketbook or affirmative > action/political correctness. > > The bottom line is still that, to the detriment of the nation, journalism > has lost its major function - to be the investigative eyes and ears of the > society - and has long maintained a lapdog posture, fawning obsequiously and > drooling over the latest "celebrity." > > Elgin > > P.S. Hard to believe that you have never gotten to "know" at least one > virgin. From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 12:44:58 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:44:58 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Stop Theif! Message-ID: <400985d71001010944h667e952bl125e220db5db2d08@mail.gmail.com> You don't hear of robbery that often in China (pick-pockets in certain parts, yes), maybe this is one reason why - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ff2_1261805235 I promise you, those guys are not out on $100 bond. Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 13:48:57 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 12:48:57 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Streisand Effect Message-ID: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com> Learn something new every day - I'd never heard of "the Streisand Effect" and had to Google it. Now if you've ever been sued, you know how boring legal documents can be. This one is long but pretty funny - http://tinyurl.com/yarhxlu I wonder how much that letter cost? Brad From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 1 14:34:51 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:34:51 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Streisand Effect In-Reply-To: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001011134t176c8e84p9b33780a6fb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com> My wife used to work for a law firm, and still does a little side-accounting for them. I've never seen where a real lawyer has that kind of moxie (Alan Shore doesn't count - no matter how much I wish he were real, he's not). Usually legal papers are boring affairs. I enjoyed that one. On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > Learn something new every day - I'd never heard of "the Streisand > Effect" and had to Google it. Now if you've ever been sued, you know > how boring legal documents can be. This one is long but pretty funny > - > > http://tinyurl.com/yarhxlu > > I wonder how much that letter cost? > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/3e8a798d/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 15:02:04 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:02:04 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] New year Message-ID: <6634e19e1001011202q56920961pdc301d0f34d6ddc3@mail.gmail.com> Good afternoon All, Well, it 01/01/10. Does everyone feel appropriately renewed and refreshed??..... Yeah, me neither Rik -- Many colleges claim that they develop "leaders." All too often, that means turning out graduates who cannot feel fulfilled unless they are telling other people what to do. There are already too many people like that, and they are a menace to everyone else's freedom. ...Thomas Sowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/13dd38fa/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Fri Jan 1 15:44:32 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 15:44:32 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Streisand Effect References: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5285990112DF490E9BF9AFBBD2B5292F@acer7e8cb8aec8> Brad, So you Googled the "Streisand Effect" to learn what it refers to. Did you already know the meaning of "Murum aries attigit" literally translated as "The ram has touched the wall." Romans had the policy that held that once an assault has begun, accept no mercy or quarter. The ram touching the wall referred to the battering ram in an assault. Take it to mean "Grant no mercy!" Yes, we continue to learn through free exchange of communications, a most precious freedom. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Friday, January 01, 2010 1:48 PM > Learn something new every day - I'd never heard of "the Streisand > Effect" and had to Google it. Now if you've ever been sued, you know > how boring legal documents can be. This one is long but pretty funny > - > > http://tinyurl.com/yarhxlu > > I wonder how much that letter cost? > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 17:35:00 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:35:00 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Streisand Effect In-Reply-To: <5285990112DF490E9BF9AFBBD2B5292F@acer7e8cb8aec8> References: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com> <5285990112DF490E9BF9AFBBD2B5292F@acer7e8cb8aec8> Message-ID: <400985d71001011435j37a58a78u74ca868d207b1b3a@mail.gmail.com> Mike, Nope, didn't know that. But, I am familiar with the concept, that is what we learned in the cockpit defense course I attended. Once the fight is on, you don't stop until the combatant is dead. It is much easier to kill someone than disable them. See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Flight_705 BTW, that training was a hoot! We dressed in full protective gear at the end and fought an attacker off in a mock battle. It gets intense quickly. I was sore for days. Brad On 1/1/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > So you Googled the "Streisand Effect" to learn what it refers to. Did you > already know the meaning of "Murum aries attigit" literally translated as > "The ram has touched the wall." Romans had the policy that held that once > an assault has begun, accept no mercy or quarter. The ram touching the wall > referred to the battering ram in an assault. Take it to mean "Grant no > mercy!" > > Yes, we continue to learn through free exchange of communications, a most > precious freedom. > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Friday, January 01, 2010 1:48 PM >> Learn something new every day - I'd never heard of "the Streisand >> Effect" and had to Google it. Now if you've ever been sued, you know >> how boring legal documents can be. This one is long but pretty funny >> - >> >> http://tinyurl.com/yarhxlu >> >> I wonder how much that letter cost? >> >> Brad >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Fri Jan 1 17:45:54 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 17:45:54 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Streisand Effect References: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com><5285990112DF490E9BF9AFBBD2B5292F@acer7e8cb8aec8> <400985d71001011435j37a58a78u74ca868d207b1b3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F49604E8F87489D9B380D08C57FBCF8@acer7e8cb8aec8> Brad, The quote was in the last pragraph of the lawyer's response, BTW. Gettin' sore playing war games? Must be your advanced age! I still have you by a ciuple of years. Know just what you mean. The week before Christmas I played a game of 3 v 3 volleyball and could barely move the next morning. Still, I'm told, it beats the alternative! Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Friday, January 01, 2010 5:35 PM > Mike, > > Nope, didn't know that. But, I am familiar with the concept, that is > what we learned in the cockpit defense course I attended. Once the > fight is on, you don't stop until the combatant is dead. It is much > easier to kill someone than disable them. See - > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Flight_705 > > BTW, that training was a hoot! We dressed in full protective gear at > the end and fought an attacker off in a mock battle. It gets intense > quickly. I was sore for days. > > Brad > > On 1/1/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >> Brad, >> >> So you Googled the "Streisand Effect" to learn what it refers to. Did >> you >> already know the meaning of "Murum aries attigit" literally translated as >> "The ram has touched the wall." Romans had the policy that held that >> once >> an assault has begun, accept no mercy or quarter. The ram touching the >> wall >> referred to the battering ram in an assault. Take it to mean "Grant no >> mercy!" >> >> Yes, we continue to learn through free exchange of communications, a most >> precious freedom. >> >> Mike >> >> From: "Brad Haslett" Friday, January 01, 2010 1:48 PM >>> Learn something new every day - I'd never heard of "the Streisand >>> Effect" and had to Google it. Now if you've ever been sued, you know >>> how boring legal documents can be. This one is long but pretty funny >>> - >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/yarhxlu >>> >>> I wonder how much that letter cost? >>> >>> Brad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 1 18:25:00 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:25:00 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] among my many emails Message-ID: <8EF6766CD79B414EBB8E1C83114B9F6B@YOURB88038198E> I have not reviewed all the posts yet, but among my other emails is a copy of email being circulated around: Ed K _______________________________________ " _____________________________________________________ Might be worth passing around. It will never be in the US press. A French Infantryman's View of American Soldiers Written by: host Subject: [warrior$] French view Military by Jean-Marc Liotier American troops in Afghanistan through the eyes of a French OMLT infantryman The US often hears echoes of worldwide hostility against the application of its foreign policy, but seldom are they reached by the voices of those who experience first hand how close we are to the USA. In spite of contextual political differences and conflicting interests that generate friction, we do share the same fundamental values - and when push comes to shove that is what really counts. Through the eyes of that French OMLT (Operational Mentoring Liaison Teams) infantryman you can see how strong the bond is on the ground. In contrast with the Americans, the French soldiers don't seem to write much online - or maybe the proportion is the same but we just have less people deployed. Whatever the reason, this is a rare and moving testimony which is why I decided to translate it into English, so that American people can catch a glimpse of the way European soldiers see them. Not much high philosophy here, just the first hand impressions of a soldier in contact - but that only makes it more authentic. Here is the original French article, http://omlt3-kdk3.over-blog.com/article-22935665.html and here is my translation : "We have shared our daily life with two US units for quite a while - they are the first and fourth companies of a prestigious infantry battalion whose name I will withhold for the sake of military secrecy. To the common man it is a unit just like any other. But we live with them and got to know them, and we henceforth know that we have the honor to live with one of the most renowned units of the US Army - one that the movies brought to the public as series showing "ordinary soldiers thrust into extraordinary events". Who are they, those soldiers from abroad, how is their daily life, and what support do they bring to the men of our OMLT every day? Few of them belong to the Easy Company, the one the TV series focuses on. This one nowadays is named Echo Company, and it has become the support company They have a terribly strong American accent - from our point of view the language they speak is not even English. How many times did I have to write down what I wanted to say rather than waste precious minutes trying various pronunciations of a seemingly common word? Whatever state they are from, no two accents are alike and they even admit that in some crisis situations they have difficulties understanding each other. Heavily built, fed at the earliest age with Gatorade, proteins and creatine (Heh. More like Waffle House and McDonalds) - they are all heads and shoulders taller than us and their muscles remind us of Rambo. Our frames are amusingly skinny to them - we are wimps, even the strongest of us - and because of that they often mistake us for Afghans. Here we discover America as it is often depicted: their values are taken to their paroxysm, often amplified by promiscuity and the loneliness of this outpost in the middle of that Afghan valley. Honor, motherland - everything here reminds of that: the American flag floating in the wind above the outpost, just like the one on the post parcels. Even if recruits often originate from the hearth of American cities and gang territory, no one here has any goal other than to hold high and proud the star spangled banner. Each man knows he can count on the support of a whole people who provides them through the mail all that an American could miss in such a remote front-line location: books, chewing gums, razorblades, Gatorade, toothpaste etc. in such way that every man is aware of how much the American people backs him in his difficult mission. And that is a first shock to our preconceptions: the American soldier is no individualist. The team, the group, the combat team are the focus of all his attention. And they are impressive warriors! We have not come across bad ones, as strange at it may seem to you when you know how critical French people can be. Even if some of them are a bit on the heavy side, all of them provide us everyday with lessons in infantry know-how. Beyond the wearing of a combat kit that never seem to discomfort them (helmet strap, helmet, combat goggles, rifles etc.) the long hours of watch at the outpost never seem to annoy them in the slightest. On the one square meter wooden tower above the perimeter wall they stand the five consecutive hours in full battle rattle and night vision goggles on top, their sight unmoving in the directions of likely danger. No distractions, no pauses, they are like statues nights and days. At night, all movements are performed in the dark - only a handful of subdued red lights indicate the occasional presence of a soldier on the move. Same with the vehicles whose lights are covered - everything happens in pitch dark even filling the fuel tanks with the Japy pump. And combat? If you have seen Rambo you have seen it all - always coming to the rescue when one of our teams gets in trouble, and always in the shortest delay. That is one of their tricks: they switch from T-shirt and sandals to combat ready in three minutes. Arriving in contact with the enemy, the way they fight is simple and disconcerting: they just charge! They disembark and assault in stride, they bomb first and ask questions later - which cuts any pussyfooting short. (This is the main area where I'd like to comment. Anyone with a passing knowledge of Kipling knows the lines from Chant Pagan: 'If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white/remember it's ruin to run from a fight./So take open order, lie down, sit tight/And wait for supports like a soldier/ This, in fact, is the basic philosophy of both British and Continental soldiers. 'In the absence of orders, take a defensive position.' Indeed, virtually every army in the world. The American soldier and Marine, however, are imbued from early in their training with the ethos: In the Absence of Orders: Attack! Where other forces, for good or ill, will wait for precise orders and plans to respond to an attack or any other 'incident', the American force will simply go, counting on firepower and SOP to carry the day. This is one of the great strengths of the American force in combat and it is something that even our closest allies, such as the Brits and Aussies (that latter being closer by the way) find repeatedly surprising. No wonder is surprises the hell out of our enemies.) We seldom hear any harsh word, and from 5 AM onwards the camp chores are performed in beautiful order and always with excellent spirit. A passing American helicopter stops near a stranded vehicle just to check that everything is alright; an American combat team will rush to support ours before even knowing how dangerous the mission is - from what we have been given to witness, the American soldier is a beautiful and worthy heir to those who liberated France and Europe. To those who bestow us with the honor of sharing their combat outposts and who everyday give proof of their military excellence, to those who pay the daily tribute of America's army's deployment on Afghan soil, to those we owned this article, ourselves hoping that we will always remain worthy of them and to always continue hearing them say that we are all the same band of brothers". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Much of this the various veterans reading will go 'Well, duh. Of course we do our 'camp chores' and stand our posts in good order. There's a reason for them and if we didn't we'd get our heads handed to us eventually. And, yeah, we're in shape. Makes battle easier. The more you sweat, the less you bleed.' What is hard for most people to comprehend is that that attitude represented only the most elite units of the past. Current everyday conventional boring 'leg infantry' units exceed the PT levels and training levels of most Special Forces during the Vietnam War. They exceed both of those as well as IQ and educational levels of: Waffen SS, WWII Rangers, WWII Airborne and British 'Commando' units during WWII. Their per-unit combat-functionality is essentially unmeasurable because it has to be compared to something and there's nothing comparable in industrial period combat history. This group is so much better than 'The Greatest Generation' at war that WWII vets who really get a close look at how good these kids are stand in absolute awe. So much of 'The scum of the earth, enlisted for drink.' Everyone complains about the quality of 'the new guys.' Don't. The screw-ups of this modern generation are head and shoulders above the 'high-medium' of any past group. Including mine. This is 'The Greatest Generation' of soldiers. They may never be equaled. I wish to hell this would actually get reprinted in the NYT. harryschweizer at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/537d9585/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 1 18:30:23 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:30:23 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] yup... Message-ID: <9D921E04FD6649408A2246AB87371CD1@YOURB88038198E> Brad said, "The $8000 first-time homebuyer credit goosed sales a bit, but, there's literally hundreds of thousands of homes that people can't afford or are seriously upside-down in - that market needs to be allowed to clear and that will take some time." Yup, and Obama's stash is not the answer. As I said, let us see what the numbers show in March. That will give much more accurate picture. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/1e3062a1/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 1 18:38:08 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:38:08 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Another email received, this is for Rik Message-ID: <2FA4540BEAA64A1D82B91571BAE36CF5@YOURB88038198E> This will get Rik's attention: HOW IMMIGRATION AND MULTICULURALISM DESTROYED DETROIT By Frosty Wooldridge October 5, 2009 NewsWithViews.com For 15 years, from the mid 1970s to 1990, I worked in Detroit, Michigan. I watched it descend into the abyss of crime, debauchery, gun play, drugs, school truancy, car-jacking, gangs and human depravity. I watched entire city blocks burned out. I watched graffiti explode on buildings, cars, trucks, buses and school yards. Trash everywhere! Detroiters walked through it, tossed more into it and ignored it. Tens of thousands and then, hundreds of thousands today exist on federal welfare, free housing and food stamps! With Aid to Dependent Children, minority women birthed eight to 10 and in once case, one woman birthed 24 kids as reported by the Detroit Free Press-all on American taxpayer dollarss. A new child meant a new car payment, new TV and whatever mom wanted. I saw Lyndon Baines Johnson's "Great Society" flourish in Detroit. If you give money for doing nothing, you will get more hands out taking money for doing nothing. Mayor Coleman Young, perhaps the most corrupt mayor in America, outside of Richard Daley in Chicago, rode Detroit down to its knees. He set the benchmark for cronyism, incompetence and arrogance. As a black man, he said, "I am the MFIC." The IC meant 'in charge'. You can figure out the rest. Detroit became a majority black city with 67 percent African-Americans. As a United Van Lines truck driver for my summer job from teaching math and science, I loaded hundreds of American families into my van for a new life in another city or state. Detroit plummeted from 1.8 million citizens to 912,000 today. At the same time, legal and illegal immigrants converged on the city, so much so, that Muslims number over 300,000. Mexicans number 400,000 throughout Michigan, but most work in Detroit. As the Muslims moved in, the whites moved out. As the crimes became more violent, the whites fled. Finally, unlawful Mexicans moved in at a torrid pace. You could cut the racial tension in the air with a knife! Detroit may be one our best examples of multiculturalism: pure dislike and total separation from America. Today, you hear Muslim calls to worship over the city like a new American Baghdad with hundreds of Islamic mosques in Michigan, paid for by Saudi Arabia oil money. High school flunk out rates reached 76 percent last June according to NBC's Brian Williams. Classrooms resemble more foreign countries than America. English? Few speak it! The city features a 50 percent illiteracy rate and growing. Unemployment hit 28.9 percent in 2009 as the auto industry vacated the city. In this week's Time Magazine October 4, 2009, "The Tragedy of Detroit: How a great city fell and how it can rise again," I choked on the writer's description of what happened. "If Detroit had been savaged by a hurricane and submerged by a ravenous flood, we'd know a lot more about it," said Daniel Okrent. "If drought and carelessness had spread brush fires across the city, we'd see it on the evening news every night. Earthquake, tornadoes, you name it - if natural disaster had devastated the city that was once the living proof of American prosperity, the rest of the country might take notice. Top of Form Bottom of Form But Detroit, once our fourth largest city, now 11th and slipping rapidly, has had no such luck. Its disaster has long been a slow unwinding that seemed to remove it from the rest of the country. Even the death rattle that in the past year emanated from its signature industry brought more attention to the auto executives than to the people of the city, who had for so long been victimized by their dreadful decision-making." As Coleman Young's corruption brought the city to its knees, no amount of federal dollars could save the incredible payoffs, kick backs and illegality permeating his administration. I witnessed the city's death from the seat of my 18-wheeler tractor trailer because I moved people out of every sector of decaying Detroit. "By any quantifiable standard, the city is on life support. Detroit's treasury is $300 million short of the funds needed to provide the barest municipal services," Okrent said. "The school system, which six years ago was compelled by the teachers' union to reject a philanthropist's offer of $200 million to build 15 small, independent charter high schools, is in receivership. The murder rate is soaring, and 7 out of 10 remain unsolved. Three years after Katrina devastated New Orleans, unemployment in that city hit a peak of 11%. In Detroit, the unemployment rate is 28.9%. That's worth spelling out: twenty-eight point nine percent." At the end of Okrent's report, and he will write a dozen more about Detroit, he said, "That's because the story of Detroit is not simply one of a great city's collapse. It's also about the erosion of the industries that helped build the country we know today. The ultimate fate of Detroit will reveal much about the character of America in the 21st century. If what was once the most prosperous manufacturing city in the nation has been brought to its knees, what does that say about our recent past? And if it can't find a way to get up, what does that say about our future?" As you read in my book review of Chris Steiner's book, $20 Per Gallon, the auto industry won't come back. Immigration will keep pouring more and more uneducated third world immigrants from the Middle East into Detroit-thus creating a beachhead for Islamic hegemony in America. If 50 percent illiteracy continues, we will see more homegrown terrorists spawned out of the Muslim ghettos of Detroit. Illiteracy plus Islam equals walking human bombs. You have already seen it in the Madrid, Spain, London, England and Paris, France with train bombings, subway bombings and riots. As their numbers grow, so will their power to enact their barbaric Sharia Law that negates republican forms of government, first amendment rights and subjugates women to the lowest rungs on the human ladder. We will see more honor killings by upset husbands, fathers and brothers that demand subjugation by their daughters, sisters and wives. Muslims prefer beheadings of women to scare the hell out of any other members of their sect from straying. Multiculturalism: what a perfect method to kill our language, culture, country and way of life. http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty506.htm Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/00aa6b92/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 1 18:49:03 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:49:03 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] More global warming Message-ID: <3C6DEDC0851C4114A396E13406F55313@YOURB88038198E> For your reading pleasure: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/09/hockey-stick-observed-in-noaa-ice-core-data/ Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/9b34143f/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 1 20:35:10 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 19:35:10 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Streisand Effect In-Reply-To: <5285990112DF490E9BF9AFBBD2B5292F@acer7e8cb8aec8> References: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com> <5285990112DF490E9BF9AFBBD2B5292F@acer7e8cb8aec8> Message-ID: <5f889a891001011735x59060977t14791ddef2d4a9c3@mail.gmail.com> I wondered what it meant. Sort of the antithesis of "measured response" eh? I have a motto that just about everyone that knows me well is aware of. That Latin phrase fits it well I don't get even - I get ahead. On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > So you Googled the "Streisand Effect" to learn what it refers to. Did you > already know the meaning of "Murum aries attigit" literally translated as > "The ram has touched the wall." Romans had the policy that held that once > an assault has begun, accept no mercy or quarter. The ram touching the > wall > referred to the battering ram in an assault. Take it to mean "Grant no > mercy!" > > Yes, we continue to learn through free exchange of communications, a most > precious freedom. > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Friday, January 01, 2010 1:48 PM > > Learn something new every day - I'd never heard of "the Streisand > > Effect" and had to Google it. Now if you've ever been sued, you know > > how boring legal documents can be. This one is long but pretty funny > > - > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yarhxlu > > > > I wonder how much that letter cost? > > > > Brad > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/9cdaddba/attachment-0001.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 1 20:38:31 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 19:38:31 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Streisand Effect In-Reply-To: <4F49604E8F87489D9B380D08C57FBCF8@acer7e8cb8aec8> References: <400985d71001011048w2caf22abx5df99be372614cf3@mail.gmail.com> <5285990112DF490E9BF9AFBBD2B5292F@acer7e8cb8aec8> <400985d71001011435j37a58a78u74ca868d207b1b3a@mail.gmail.com> <4F49604E8F87489D9B380D08C57FBCF8@acer7e8cb8aec8> Message-ID: <5f889a891001011738k5c03a1dhaed5c0eec5be9eb4@mail.gmail.com> OK, it wasn't *exactly *"war games", but the teens had a lock-in last night, and my wife helped out. I went by a little before midnight to share that with her, and hung around. They (and the adults) were playing with these little airguns that shot plastic pellets, and of course, I had to hospitable and play along. Even though there was a "shoulder high" limit, the little farts shot me twice in the face. Once on the forehead, and once right between the eyes. At the time I laughed them off (even though on bled a little), but dang, they are *sore* this morning. My only real consolation is that a lot of them went home with stinging thighs, shoulders, and butts :) On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > The quote was in the last pragraph of the lawyer's response, BTW. > > Gettin' sore playing war games? Must be your advanced age! I still have > you by a ciuple of years. Know just what you mean. The week before > Christmas I played a game of 3 v 3 volleyball and could barely move the > next > morning. Still, I'm told, it beats the alternative! > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Friday, January 01, 2010 5:35 PM > > Mike, > > > > Nope, didn't know that. But, I am familiar with the concept, that is > > what we learned in the cockpit defense course I attended. Once the > > fight is on, you don't stop until the combatant is dead. It is much > > easier to kill someone than disable them. See - > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Flight_705 > > > > BTW, that training was a hoot! We dressed in full protective gear at > > the end and fought an attacker off in a mock battle. It gets intense > > quickly. I was sore for days. > > > > Brad > > > > On 1/1/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > >> Brad, > >> > >> So you Googled the "Streisand Effect" to learn what it refers to. Did > >> you > >> already know the meaning of "Murum aries attigit" literally translated > as > >> "The ram has touched the wall." Romans had the policy that held that > >> once > >> an assault has begun, accept no mercy or quarter. The ram touching the > >> wall > >> referred to the battering ram in an assault. Take it to mean "Grant no > >> mercy!" > >> > >> Yes, we continue to learn through free exchange of communications, a > most > >> precious freedom. > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> From: "Brad Haslett" Friday, January 01, 2010 1:48 PM > >>> Learn something new every day - I'd never heard of "the Streisand > >>> Effect" and had to Google it. Now if you've ever been sued, you know > >>> how boring legal documents can be. This one is long but pretty funny > >>> - > >>> > >>> http://tinyurl.com/yarhxlu > >>> > >>> I wonder how much that letter cost? > >>> > >>> Brad > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/8f72caec/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 21:53:41 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 20:53:41 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] More global warming In-Reply-To: <3C6DEDC0851C4114A396E13406F55313@YOURB88038198E> References: <3C6DEDC0851C4114A396E13406F55313@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001011853l1abd9102id85a09f62276a9fb@mail.gmail.com> Ed, I expect to see Al Gore's kid make a few hundred million or so off of global cooling in another 20 years or so. What's kinda surprising is that Al hasn't folded his tent yet and got out of town with his money, while the gettin' is still good. We went through this same deal in the seventies, but it never caught on quite this big. I guess it was a little tougher to make shit up with so much less computer power. Rik On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > For your reading pleasure: > > > http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/09/hockey-stick-observed-in-noaa-ice-core-data/ > > Ed K > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- Many colleges claim that they develop "leaders." All too often, that means turning out graduates who cannot feel fulfilled unless they are telling other people what to do. There are already too many people like that, and they are a menace to everyone else's freedom. ...Thomas Sowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100101/77861736/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 2 06:19:16 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 06:19:16 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Islamic Game Plan, pc, and losses of freedom Message-ID: John, You must be on some of the mailers list that I am on. I had gotten this email back while I was in iceberg country. Actually, I had gotten reference to it back when it was written. That was before you joined us. This email brings up the topic of religion. Like brother Brad, I have a problem with organized religions. They get people who become evangelists and think they are modern day prophets. Unfortunately some of these evangelists adopt pseudo religions like Marxism, global warming and do not tell others that they are substituting that ideology for religion with all its warts. One of the founders of our country said that our constitution will not stand without religion. But the religion he was referring to was based on freedom and understanding some basic concepts we call morality. One of those concepts of morality was given to use by Moses. That was a few years back. It said 'thou shall not steal'. While some resources are necessary from all to maintain a defense against evils, that term common good is stretched to blur using the 'force of government' to steal thru taxation to provide for what these new evangelists call "common welfare and good". The money collected from taxes does not belong to the 'Government'. Rather, it is the taxpayers money. When that money is collected thru force of government and given to others, it is stealing. That stealing is theft and violation of historical morality. The evangelist of the common good are today using this as a pseudo religion to make themselves gods on earth to define morality. Let us never forget that those new evangelist are just humans, and not anything else. Their pseudo religion is nothing more than their human interptations and human reasoning that they are forcing on others. For me, 'Freedom' is the only answer. The U. S. Constitution in Article Three, Section Three uses the word treason. However, there is no complete definition of the meaning of the word therein. It is my opinion that freedom of speech, freedom of press, and other freedoms do not include a right to commit treason because treason is specifically referred to in the Constitution. My opinion is that much of what is being foisted upon us is very simply, Treason. Again, glib speech that is treasonous is simply not included under freedom of speech. Destruction of the American Constitution is treason because it steals from others the rights under it. Today we have a new jingoism espousing a 'coming together'. But the implication of this 'coming to a meeting of minds' always has implicit loss of freedoms for some. What tools are available to prevent this new jingoism from destroying others' freedoms? How do we confront this new sleazy form of treason? So my question to you is what tools are available to maintain freedom against these advocates of treason? Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100102/56bde4ae/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Jan 2 09:31:27 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 08:31:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Damned If You Do, ....... Message-ID: <400985d71001020631w384cbe51t29cb05c63cbaaaca@mail.gmail.com> Here's a couple of real estate stories, usually a dull subject - http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20091231/ts_csm/271585 So, the POTUS wants banks to lend "responsibly". Never mind that he used to sue banks on behalf of ACORN, or that his campaign finance chairman was the poster-child of sub-prime lending (bankrupting her institution). So interest rates will rise? Well duhhhhhh. The market is competing against the government for TRILLIONS of debt. But, the Christmas Eve "news dump" by the administration is that they want a blank check to prop-up Fannie & Freddie, ie, more borrowing. Now scroll down to the bottom of the previously posted article and you see a link to a story about some cities suing Wells Fargo for loan practices. Here's a better link for a story about the City of Memphis - http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/dec/30/memphis-shelby-county-sue-wells-fargo-lending-prac/ I'm really disappointed in AC Wharton, having voted for him twice as Shelby County Mayor. But now that he's Mayor of Memphis, he too has chosen to go down this path. Now, there's no love lost between me and Wells Fargo (having just dealt with them as the most difficult party on the recent condo purchase) but what were they supposed to do? If they don't loan money, they get sued. If they loan money, they get sued. It is a bit difficult not to target "minorities" in the city of Memphis when the population is 70% black. Sometimes, the only way to understand what is going on in the current economy is to re-read Chairman Mao's Little Red Book. It makes as much sense as anything else lately. A friend of mine just lost her job for the second time in three years. She's 63 and has decided to retire. A former "farmer" for over a decade (courtesy of the Cultural Revolution), she eventually earned a PhD in Chemistry and managed to secure a comfortable nest-egg in the USA. She asked me for investment advice and I answered the only way I know how to handle those questions these days, "I don't have a clue". Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Jan 2 10:19:03 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:19:03 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Damned If You Do, ....... In-Reply-To: <400985d71001020631w384cbe51t29cb05c63cbaaaca@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001020631w384cbe51t29cb05c63cbaaaca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001020719q66ca547cv2eccbdafcb1ed81@mail.gmail.com> UPDATE - Good grief, even the NYTs understands the problem. Repeat after me, "Some experts argue the program has impeded economic recovery by delaying a wrenching yet cleansing process through which borrowers give up unaffordable homes and banks fully reckon with their disastrous bets on real estate, enabling money to flow more freely through the financial system." ---------------------- January 2, 2010 U.S. Loan Effort Is Seen as Adding to Housing Woes By PETER S. GOODMAN The Obama administration?s $75 billion program to protect homeowners from foreclosure has been widely pronounced a disappointment, and some economists and real estate experts now contend it has done more harm than good. Since President Obama announced the program in February, it has lowered mortgage payments on a trial basis for hundreds of thousands of people but has largely failed to provide permanent relief. Critics increasingly argue that the program, Making Home Affordable, has raised false hopes among people who simply cannot afford their homes. As a result, desperate homeowners have sent payments to banks in often-futile efforts to keep their homes, which some see as wasting dollars they could have saved in preparation for moving to cheaper rental residences. Some borrowers have seen their credit tarnished while falsely assuming that loan modifications involved no negative reports to credit agencies. Some experts argue the program has impeded economic recovery by delaying a wrenching yet cleansing process through which borrowers give up unaffordable homes and banks fully reckon with their disastrous bets on real estate, enabling money to flow more freely through the financial system. ?The choice we appear to be making is trying to modify our way out of this, which has the effect of lengthening the crisis,? said Kevin Katari, managing member of Watershed Asset Management, a San Francisco-based hedge fund. ?We have simply slowed the foreclosure pipeline, with people staying in houses they are ultimately not going to be able to afford anyway.? Mr. Katari contends that banks have been using temporary loan modifications under the Obama plan as justification to avoid an honest accounting of the mortgage losses still on their books. Only after banks are forced to acknowledge losses and the real estate market absorbs a now pent-up surge of foreclosed properties will housing prices drop to levels at which enough Americans can afford to buy, he argues. ?Then the carpenters can go back to work,? Mr. Katari said. ?The roofers can go back to work, and we start building housing again. If this drips out over the next few years, that whole sector of the economy isn?t going to recover.? The Treasury Department publicly maintains that its program is on track. ?The program is meeting its intended goal of providing immediate relief to homeowners across the country,? a department spokeswoman, Meg Reilly, wrote in an e-mail message. But behind the scenes, Treasury officials appear to have concluded that growing numbers of delinquent borrowers simply lack enough income to afford their homes and must be eased out. In late November, with scant public disclosure, the Treasury Department started the Foreclosure Alternatives Program, through which it will encourage arrangements that result in distressed borrowers surrendering their homes. The program will pay incentives to mortgage companies that allow homeowners to sell properties for less than they owe on their mortgages ? short sales, in real estate parlance. The government will also pay incentives to mortgage companies that allow delinquent borrowers to hand over their deeds in lieu of foreclosing. Ms. Reilly, the Treasury spokeswoman, said the foreclosure alternatives program did not represent a new policy. ?We have said from the start that modifications will not be the solution for all homeowners and will not solve the housing crisis alone,? Ms. Reilly said by e-mail. ?This has always been a multi-pronged effort.? Whatever the merits of its plans, the administration has clearly failed to reverse the foreclosure crisis. In 2008, more than 1.7 million homes were ?lost? through foreclosures, short sales or deeds in lieu of foreclosure, according to Moody?s Economy.com. Last year, more than two million homes were lost, and Economy.com expects that this year?s number will swell to 2.4 million. ?I don?t think there?s any way for Treasury to tweak their plan, or to cajole, pressure or entice servicers to do more to address the crisis,? said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody?s Economy.com. ?For some folks, it is doing more harm than good, because ultimately, at the end of the day, they are going back into the foreclosure morass.? Mr. Zandi argues that the administration needs a new initiative that attacks a primary source of foreclosures: the roughly 15 million American homeowners who are underwater, meaning they owe the bank more than their home is worth. Increasingly, such borrowers are inclined to walk away and accept foreclosure, rather than continuing to make payments on properties in which they own no equity. A paper by researchers at the Amherst Securities Group suggests that being underwater ?is a far more important predictor of defaults than unemployment.? >From its inception, the Obama plan has drawn criticism for failing to compel banks to write down the size of outstanding mortgage balances, which would restore equity for underwater borrowers, giving them greater incentive to make payments. A vast majority of modifications merely decrease monthly payments by lowering the interest rate. Mr. Zandi proposes that the Treasury Department push banks to write down some loan balances by reimbursing the companies for their losses. He pointedly rejects the notion that government ought to get out of the way and let foreclosures work their way through the market, saying that course risks a surge of foreclosures and declining house prices that could pull the economy back into recession. ?We want to overwhelm this problem,? he said. ?If we do go back into recession, it will be very difficult to get out.? Under the current program, the government provides cash incentives to mortgage companies that lower monthly payments for borrowers facing hardships. The Treasury Department set a goal of three to four million permanent loan modifications by 2012. ?That?s overly optimistic at this stage,? said Richard H. Neiman, the superintendent of banks for New York State and an appointee to the Congressional Oversight Panel, a body created to keep tabs on taxpayer bailout funds. ?There?s a great deal of frustration and disappointment.? As of mid-December, some 759,000 homeowners had received loan modifications on a trial basis typically lasting three to five months. But only about 31,000 had received permanent modifications ? a step that requires borrowers to make timely trial payments and submit paperwork verifying their financial situation. The government has pressured mortgage companies to move faster. Still, it argues that trial modifications are themselves a considerable help. ?Almost three-quarters of a million Americans now are benefiting from modification programs that reduce their monthly payments dramatically, on average $550 a month,? Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said last month at a hearing before the Congressional Oversight Panel. ?That is a meaningful amount of support.? But mortgage experts and lawyers who represent borrowers facing foreclosure argue that recipients of trial loan modifications often wind up worse off. In Lakeland, Fla., Jaimie S. Smith, 29, called her mortgage company, then Washington Mutual, in October 2008, when she realized she would get a smaller bonus from her employer, a furniture company, threatening her ability to continue the $1,250 monthly mortgage payments on her three-bedroom house. In April, Chase, which had taken over Washington Mutual, lowered her payment to $1,033.62 in a trial that was supposed to last three months. Ms. Smith made all three payments on time and submitted required documents, Chase confirms. She called the bank almost weekly to inquire about a permanent loan modification. Each time, she says, Chase told her to continue making trial payments and await word on a permanent modification. Then, in October, a startling legal notice arrived in the mail: Chase had foreclosed on her house and sold it at auction for $100. (The purchaser? Chase.) ?I cried,? she said. ?I was hysterical. I bawled my eyes out.? Later that week came another letter from Chase: ?Congratulations on qualifying for a Making Home Affordable loan modification!? When Ms. Smith frantically called the bank to try to overturn the sale, she was told that the house was no longer hers. Chase would not tell her how long she could remain there, she says. She feared the sheriff would show up at her door with eviction papers, or that she would return home to find her belongings piled on the curb. So Ms. Smith anxiously set about looking for a new place to live. She had been planning to continue an online graduate school program in supply chain management, and she had about $4,000 in borrowed funds to pay tuition. She scrapped her studies and used the money to pay the security deposit and first month?s rent on an apartment. Later, she hired a lawyer, who is seeking compensation from Chase. A judge later vacated the sale. Chase is still offering to make her loan modification permanent, but Ms. Smith has already moved out and is conflicted about what to do. ?I could have just walked away,? said Ms. Smith. ?If they had said, ?We can?t work with you,? I?d have said: ?What are my options? Short sale?? None of this would have happened. God knows, I never would have wanted to go through this. I?d still be in grad school. I would not have paid all that money to them. I could have saved that money.? A Chase spokeswoman, Christine Holevas, confirmed that the bank mistakenly foreclosed on Ms. Smith?s house and sold it at the same time it was extending the loan modification offer. ?There was a systems glitch,? Ms. Holevas said. ?We are sorry that an error happened. We?re trying very hard to do what we can to keep folks in their homes. We are dealing with many, many individuals.? Many borrowers complain they were told by mortgage companies their credit would not be damaged by accepting a loan modification, only to discover otherwise. In a telephone conference with reporters, Jack Schakett, Bank of America?s credit loss mitigation executive, confirmed that even borrowers who were current before agreeing to loan modifications and who then made timely payments were reported to credit rating agencies as making only partial payments. The biggest source of concern remains the growing numbers of underwater borrowers ? now about one-third of all American homeowners with mortgages, according to Economy.com. The Obama administration clearly grasped the threat as it created its program, yet opted not to focus on writing down loan balances. ?This is a conscious choice we made, not to start with principal reduction,? Mr. Geithner told the Congressional Oversight Panel. ?We thought it would be dramatically more expensive for the American taxpayer, harder to justify, create much greater risk of unfairness.? Mr. Geithner?s explanation did not satisfy the panel?s chairwoman, Elizabeth Warren. ?Are we creating a program in which we?re talking about potentially spending $75 billion to try to modify people into mortgages that will reduce the number of foreclosures in the short term, but just kick the can down the road?? she asked, raising the prospect ?that we?ll be looking at an economy with elevated mortgage foreclosures not just for a year or two, but for many years. How do you deal with that problem, Mr. Secretary?? A good question, Mr. Geithner conceded. ?What to do about it,? he said. ?That?s a hard thing.? On 1/2/10, Brad Haslett wrote: > Here's a couple of real estate stories, usually a dull subject - > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20091231/ts_csm/271585 > > So, the POTUS wants banks to lend "responsibly". Never mind that he > used to sue banks on behalf of ACORN, or that his campaign finance > chairman was the poster-child of sub-prime lending (bankrupting her > institution). So interest rates will rise? Well duhhhhhh. The market > is competing against the government for TRILLIONS of debt. But, the > Christmas Eve "news dump" by the administration is that they want a > blank check to prop-up Fannie & Freddie, ie, more borrowing. > > Now scroll down to the bottom of the previously posted article and you > see a link to a story about some cities suing Wells Fargo for loan > practices. Here's a better link for a story about the City of Memphis > - > > http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/dec/30/memphis-shelby-county-sue-wells-fargo-lending-prac/ > > I'm really disappointed in AC Wharton, having voted for him twice as > Shelby County Mayor. But now that he's Mayor of Memphis, he too has > chosen to go down this path. Now, there's no love lost between me and > Wells Fargo (having just dealt with them as the most difficult party > on the recent condo purchase) but what were they supposed to do? If > they don't loan money, they get sued. If they loan money, they get > sued. It is a bit difficult not to target "minorities" in the city of > Memphis when the population is 70% black. > > Sometimes, the only way to understand what is going on in the current > economy is to re-read Chairman Mao's Little Red Book. It makes as > much sense as anything else lately. > A friend of mine just lost her job for the second time in three years. > She's 63 and has decided to retire. A former "farmer" for over a > decade (courtesy of the Cultural Revolution), she eventually earned a > PhD in Chemistry and managed to secure a comfortable nest-egg in the > USA. She asked me for investment advice and I answered the only way I > know how to handle those questions these days, "I don't have a clue". > > Brad > From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 2 11:00:52 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 11:00:52 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It is not over until the fat lady sings ... Message-ID: <5B81D44AFEE7419CAFD8F70BF0C54FCA@YOURB88038198E> Did you all get this email: A recent "Investor's Business Daily" article provided very interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization. Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis: U.S. 65% England 46% Canada 42% Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months: U.S. 93% England 15% Canada 43% Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months: U.S. 90% England 15% Canada 43% Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month: U.S. 77% England 40% Canada 43% Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people: U.S. 71 England 14 Canada 18 Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in "excellent health": U.S. 12% England 2% Canada 6% I don't know about you, but I don't want "Universal Healthcare" comparable to England or Canada . Moreover, it was Sen. Harry Reid who said, "Elderly Americans must learn to accept the inconveniences of old age." SHIP HIS ASS TO CANADA OR ENGLAND ! ________________________________________________________________________ email forwarded by Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100102/91a86041/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Jan 2 11:21:17 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 10:21:17 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It is not over until the fat lady sings ... In-Reply-To: <5B81D44AFEE7419CAFD8F70BF0C54FCA@YOURB88038198E> References: <5B81D44AFEE7419CAFD8F70BF0C54FCA@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d71001020821p7a336436m86e304113e1786bf@mail.gmail.com> Add this to the fire - -------------- Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients By David Olmos Dec. 31 (Bloomberg) -- The Mayo Clinic, praised by President Barack Obama as a national model for efficient health care, will stop accepting Medicare patients as of tomorrow at one of its primary-care clinics in Arizona, saying the U.S. government pays too little. More than 3,000 patients eligible for Medicare, the government?s largest health-insurance program, will be forced to pay cash if they want to continue seeing their doctors at a Mayo family clinic in Glendale, northwest of Phoenix, said Michael Yardley, a Mayo spokesman. The decision, which Yardley called a two-year pilot project, won?t affect other Mayo facilities in Arizona, Florida and Minnesota. Obama in June cited the nonprofit Rochester, Minnesota-based Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio for offering ?the highest quality care at costs well below the national norm.? Mayo?s move to drop Medicare patients may be copied by family doctors, some of whom have stopped accepting new patients from the program, said Lori Heim, president of the American Academy of Family Physicians, in a telephone interview yesterday. ?Many physicians have said, ?I simply cannot afford to keep taking care of Medicare patients,?? said Heim, a family doctor who practices in Laurinburg, North Carolina. ?If you truly know your business costs and you are losing money, it doesn?t make sense to do more of it.? Medicare Loss The Mayo organization had 3,700 staff physicians and scientists and treated 526,000 patients in 2008. It lost $840 million last year on Medicare, the government?s health program for the disabled and those 65 and older, Mayo spokeswoman Lynn Closway said. Mayo?s hospital and four clinics in Arizona, including the Glendale facility, lost $120 million on Medicare patients last year, Yardley said. The program?s payments cover about 50 percent of the cost of treating elderly primary-care patients at the Glendale clinic, he said. ?We firmly believe that Medicare needs to be reformed,? Yardley said in a Dec. 23 e-mail. ?It has been true for many years that Medicare payments no longer reflect the increasing cost of providing services for patients.? Mayo will assess the financial effect of the decision in Glendale to drop Medicare patients ?to see if it could have implications beyond Arizona,? he said. Nationwide, doctors made about 20 percent less for treating Medicare patients than they did caring for privately insured patients in 2007, a payment gap that has remained stable during the last decade, according to a March report by the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, a panel that advises Congress on Medicare issues. Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in Medicare reimbursements for doctors. National Participation Medicare covered an estimated 45 million Americans at the end of 2008, according to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, the agency in charge of the programs. While 92 percent of U.S. family doctors participate in Medicare, only 73 percent of those are accepting new patients under the program, said Heim of the national physicians? group, citing surveys by the Leawood, Kansas-based organization. Greater access to primary care is a goal of the broad overhaul supported by Obama that would provide health insurance to about 31 million more Americans. More family doctors are needed to help reduce medical costs by encouraging prevention and early treatment, Obama said in a June 15 speech to the American Medical Association meeting in Chicago. Reid Cherlin, a White House spokesman for health care, declined comment on Mayo?s decision to drop Medicare primary care patients at its Glendale clinic. Medicare Costs Mayo?s Medicare losses in Arizona may be worse than typical for doctors across the U.S., Heim said. Physician costs vary depending on business expenses such as office rent and payroll. ?It is very common that we hear that Medicare is below costs or barely covering costs,? Heim said. Mayo will continue to accept Medicare as payment for laboratory services and specialist care such as cardiology and neurology, Yardley said. Robert Berenson, a fellow at the Urban Institute?s Health Policy Center in Washington, D.C., said physicians? claims of inadequate reimbursement are overstated. Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists and pediatricians who oversee patients? primary care. ?Some primary care doctors don?t have to see Medicare patients because there is an unlimited demand for their services,? Berenson said. When patients with private insurance can be treated at 50 percent to 100 percent higher fees, ?then Medicare does indeed look like a poor payer,? he said. Annual Costs A Medicare patient who chooses to stay at Mayo?s Glendale clinic will pay about $1,500 a year for an annual physical and three other doctor visits, according to an October letter from the facility. Each patient also will be assessed a $250 annual administrative fee, according to the letter. Medicare patients at the Glendale clinic won?t be allowed to switch to a primary care doctor at another Mayo facility. A few hundred of the clinic?s Medicare patients have decided to pay cash to continue seeing their primary care doctors, Yardley said. Mayo is helping other patients find new physicians who will accept Medicare. ?We?ve had many patients call us and express their unhappiness,? he said. ?It?s not been a pleasant experience.? Mayo?s decision may herald similar moves by other Phoenix- area doctors who cite inadequate Medicare fees as a reason to curtail treatment of the elderly, said John Rivers, chief executive of the Phoenix-based Arizona Hospital and Healthcare Association. ?We?ve got doctors who are saying we are not going to deal with Medicare patients in the hospital? because they consider the fees too low, Rivers said. ?Or they are saying we are not going to take new ones in our practice.? To contact the reporter on this story: David Olmos in San Francisco at dolmos at bloomberg.net Last Updated: December 31, 2009 00:01 EST On 1/2/10, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Did you all get this email: > > A recent "Investor's Business Daily" article provided very interesting > statistics from a > survey by the United Nations International Health Organization. > > Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after > diagnosis: > U.S. 65% > England 46% > Canada 42% > > Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment > within six months: > U.S. 93% > England 15% > Canada 43% > > Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six > months: > U.S. 90% > England 15% > Canada 43% > > Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one > month: > U.S. 77% > England 40% > Canada 43% > > Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people: > U.S. 71 > England 14 > Canada 18 > > Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in > "excellent health": > U.S. 12% > England 2% > Canada 6% > > I don't know about you, but I don't want "Universal Healthcare" > comparable to England or Canada . > > Moreover, it was Sen. Harry Reid who said, "Elderly Americans must learn > to accept the inconveniences of old age." > > SHIP HIS ASS TO CANADA OR ENGLAND ! > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > email forwarded by > Ed K From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sat Jan 2 11:22:45 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 10:22:45 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It is not over until the fat lady sings ... In-Reply-To: <5B81D44AFEE7419CAFD8F70BF0C54FCA@YOURB88038198E> References: <5B81D44AFEE7419CAFD8F70BF0C54FCA@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001020822s3d1dff01tf9f85b875ba21f6@mail.gmail.com> Ed,. "Moreover, it was Sen. Harry Reid who said, *"**Elderly Americans must learn to accept the inconveniences of old age." * The important thing to take away from this statement is: Everyone BUT he and his cronies in congress must be willing to accept the inconveniences of old age. Harry Reid is very fortunate to not be within arms reach of me lately. If he were, he'd learn some inconvenient truths. How dare he??? Rik On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > *Did you all get this email:* > * > * A recent "Investor's Business Daily" article provided very > interesting statistics from a > survey by the United Nations International Health Organization. > > Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after > diagnosis: > U.S. 65% > England 46% > Canada 42% > > Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment > within six months: > U.S. 93% > England 15% > Canada 43% > > Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within > six months: > U.S. 90% > England 15% > Canada 43% > > Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one > month: > U.S. 77% > England 40% > Canada 43% > > Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people: > U.S. 71 > England 14 > Canada 18 > > Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in > "excellent health": > U.S. 12% > England 2% > Canada 6% > > I don't know about you, but I don't want "Universal Healthcare" > comparable to England or Canada . > > Moreover, it was Sen. Harry Reid who said, *"**Elderly Americans must > learn to accept the inconveniences of old age." > * > *SHIP HIS ASS TO CANADA OR ENGLAND !* > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > email forwarded by > Ed K > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- Many colleges claim that they develop "leaders." All too often, that means turning out graduates who cannot feel fulfilled unless they are telling other people what to do. There are already too many people like that, and they are a menace to everyone else's freedom. ...Thomas Sowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100102/aa201647/attachment.html From elginalexander at erols.com Sun Jan 3 10:08:08 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (L. John Friia) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:08:08 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Islamic Game Plan, pc, and losses of freedom References: Message-ID: <606BBFDB2A55427984983288A6F56404@Xanthus> Ed, Well written. I could not concur more. As to "what tools are available to maintain freedom against these advocates of treason," the initial ones are reason and the voting booth. However, when they do not appear as viable means, then we are forced to take example from our founding fathers, who discovered that, when dealing with men who are neither just nor reasonable, there is little or no alternative other than revolution. Let us hope it will not come to that, but let us always be prepared, for as Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Germany and the world learned that the hard way - and the bloodied streets of Tehran are testament to the fact that Iran is now suffering the consequences of learning it too late. Elgin ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Kroposki To: Swift Water Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Islamic Game Plan, pc, and losses of freedom John, You must be on some of the mailers list that I am on. I had gotten this email back while I was in iceberg country. Actually, I had gotten reference to it back when it was written. That was before you joined us. This email brings up the topic of religion. Like brother Brad, I have a problem with organized religions. They get people who become evangelists and think they are modern day prophets. Unfortunately some of these evangelists adopt pseudo religions like Marxism, global warming and do not tell others that they are substituting that ideology for religion with all its warts. One of the founders of our country said that our constitution will not stand without religion. But the religion he was referring to was based on freedom and understanding some basic concepts we call morality. One of those concepts of morality was given to use by Moses. That was a few years back. It said 'thou shall not steal'. While some resources are necessary from all to maintain a defense against evils, that term common good is stretched to blur using the 'force of government' to steal thru taxation to provide for what these new evangelists call "common welfare and good". The money collected from taxes does not belong to the 'Government'. Rather, it is the taxpayers money. When that money is collected thru force of government and given to others, it is stealing. That stealing is theft and violation of historical morality. The evangelist of the common good are today using this as a pseudo religion to make themselves gods on earth to define morality. Let us never forget that those new evangelist are just humans, and not anything else. Their pseudo religion is nothing more than their human interptations and human reasoning that they are forcing on others. For me, 'Freedom' is the only answer. The U. S. Constitution in Article Three, Section Three uses the word treason. However, there is no complete definition of the meaning of the word therein. It is my opinion that freedom of speech, freedom of press, and other freedoms do not include a right to commit treason because treason is specifically referred to in the Constitution. My opinion is that much of what is being foisted upon us is very simply, Treason. Again, glib speech that is treasonous is simply not included under freedom of speech. Destruction of the American Constitution is treason because it steals from others the rights under it. Today we have a new jingoism espousing a 'coming together'. But the implication of this 'coming to a meeting of minds' always has implicit loss of freedoms for some. What tools are available to prevent this new jingoism from destroying others' freedoms? How do we confront this new sleazy form of treason? So my question to you is what tools are available to maintain freedom against these advocates of treason? Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100103/cc0ce30f/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 14:03:05 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:03:05 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Remember when ....... Message-ID: <6634e19e1001031103yfbdf2f6l1eead8a76df94e56@mail.gmail.com> Good afternoon All, Gotta thank Brad for pointing out this woman's blog a while back. Ain't no doubt in my mind, she gets it. I have been cursing the govt's "safety nets" for a long time as the worst thing that could happen to America. Safety is way over-rated. I believe the quest for safety is leading us down the path to our own mediocrity and eventual destruction. Allowing the possibility of failure may just be more important to the human race than the possibility of success. Stupid is supposed to be painful. In the past, this pain has served a very useful purpose. Now ..... stupid is something we want to reward. Uh .... how stupid is that??? Rik -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. ________________________ http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/ This, Too *Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.* - Proverbs 29:18 On the top shelf of the armoire in my home office lie six boxes neatly stacked in two orderly rows. They are an attractive, soothing shade of green. The sides that face forward have neat labels as yet unblemished by my hasty half printed, half cursive scrawl. They are waiting for a day when I have the time to neatly label them in cursive; to form graceful, elegant letters that please the eye and hint at a more thoughtful, deliberate life than the one I really live. Inside the boxes are pictures; hundreds of family photographs formerly squirreled away in hiding places all over the house. They were stashed in half squished, disreputable looking shoe boxes with missing lids, hidden in drawers, tucked inside of letters (who writes letters anymore?) sent and received decades ago. I even found a cache buried deep in the recesses of my husband's uniform closet: pictures of our sons as small boys. Pictures of a doe eyed, suntanned, mostly barefoot young woman I barely recognize. "Brown as a berry", my Dad used to say when I was little. The memory, like so many memories, makes me smile. A few photos were nestled into piles of old military orders and receipts. One or two were casually tossed into a box containing ribbons, medals, and cold weather gear. In the three months since my husband left for Afghanistan I've been retrieving pictures from all over the house, sorting them, and placing them in neat, green boxes on a shelf in my office. There were a few surprises. [image: shortall.jpg]For one thing, I don't recall my offspring ever looking that neat. I'm not a particularly tidy person. My memories of those years include a vague but constant worry that I wasn't quite keeping up appearances. I can't recall being particularly angst ridden about it, but the feeling was never shoved too far back in my consciousness either. But clearly the boys did look neat and clean - at least some of the time. In nearly every photograph their hair is freshly cut and combed, with a neat part on the side. That's not too surprising; I cut their hair myself every two weeks. It was easier to remember how to even out a cowlick or coax each boy's locks into subservience to my maternal will if I didn't allow their hair to grow too long or too uneven. But it wasn't just the hair. In each photo their outfits are carefully coordinated. Quite a few photos show them in coat and tie, a snazzy set of suspenders or, (when they were very small) those old fashioned rompers and a pair of leather, hard soled English sandals. That's when it hit me: it's not that I was particularly neat or my children particularly well groomed or dressed. You can see the same thing looking back at photos of the '50s and '60s in any public place. The men are dressed in suits, the women all wear stockings. Many have gloves and hats. Change happened gradually, but over the years it became harder and harder to find little boys' suits, leather shoes, the well tailored clothes we saved for months in order to buy and proudly sported at restaurants, airports, even baseball games. No one, nowadays, bronzes their baby's first set of Nike sneakers. They are nothing like the white leather baby shoes that required so much polishing to keep them free of the dreaded black smudges that earned disapproving looks from old ladies. And few people comb their childrens' hair anymore. It's such a bother. Instead of crisp cottons that require ironing and special handling to look snappy we have easy care polyester blends; outfits that don't require a belt. Elastic waistbands. T-shirts instead of the collared polos and button down Oxford cloth shirts I tortured my boys with Monday-Friday for school. I can't remember the last time I saw a child in khakis and an Oxford cloth shirt. Clothes today never stand out; never look particularly good but then again they never manage to look completely dreadful either. It's a wash and wear world we live in. Care free. Free of that sense of aspiring to something better; of striving to improve, outpace, to meet or exceed the expectations of our parents, peers, co-workers. Free of competition; free of the desire (much less the pressure) to excel. Mostly free too, of the gnawing fear of failure; the ever present sense that prosperity is not a guaranteed sinecure but a precarious tightrope between the shame of being destitute and dependent and the pride of achievement and affluence. For there is no shame in being needy anymore. We have destigmatized failure. When we make poor choices it's never our fault. We were just unlucky. Prosperity is something we take for granted in a way our parents and grandparents, who came of age in a time before Social Security, 401Ks, Medicare/Medicaid and unemployment insurance were never able to. How dare the bank repossess "our" houses simply because we cannot afford to pay the mortgage note? Why isn't someone doing something to allow us to keep what's rightfully ours? Uncertainty - the fear that our carefully constructed worlds could so easily collapse; that we were on the ascending path but could fall just as swiftly as we had risen; that in an instant everything we had might be swept away - is, I think, what lay behind what I saw in those old photos. To keep uncertainty at bay we dressed up, put our best feet forward, struggled to be better than our natures dictated. We did these things to assuage the knowledge that nothing in life is guaranteed: not health, not wealth, not happiness. Without a safety net, constant effort was required to keep the human race on the upward path from savagery and want to civilization and affluence and with every instinct in our being we continually reaffirmed and celebrated the importance of being successful. Because the opposite of success was failure, and failure was shameful. It could also be disastrous. Prosperity and abundance were things we didn't take for granted the way we do now. It was all a question of expectations. We wanted wealth and security but didn't expect these things. After all, success in those days was still an aspiration. A hope, not a birthright. I can't help wondering if the growing disconnect between decision and consequence; our bloated sense of entitlement and inflated expectation is not behind many of the things I've been reading lately: Gerard's sense of diminishment. Retriever's disappointment? Instapunk's despair and loss of faith? Their essays reminded me of something I read long ago. An essay written by a dear friend about the danger of misplaced expectations : Life's disappointments are as varied as the landscape- the juvenile creek of ?They promised it would snow last night!? winds through the vain woods of ?the Smiths didn?t send us a Christmas card? to join the great river of broken hearts on its way to the sea of ... um... metaphors. Irrespective of its personal magnitude, however, every disappointment exposes two basic human flaws; the first being the reliance on our own expectations (?I screwed up, I trusted you?), and the second being the inability to correctly anticipate the expectations of others (?You screwed up, you trusted me?). Note that in both cases the blame cast is bi-directional. (The corollary to this is the equally human phenomena of being pleased. Both require the surprise that comes from misplaced expectations.) Little by little as we've grown more prosperous, more secure, our expectations have grown until what once would have been a minor setback now looks like an unmitigated disaster. We can't help viewing experience through the lens of our expectations. Looking back through those photos I see a rather pretty young woman: myself at 20, at 30, even at 40. But that perception, too, is a function of expectation for I can't recall ever feeling pretty at the time. I didn't ever feel ugly either. *It's just that I wanted to be so much more,* and so that face in the mirror - the one that now seems pretty to me - always fell short somehow. Now, at 50, I look back with the knowledge that I have taken those first few steps along the downward path. It seems funny to me now, all those years of wishing, hoping, struggling to reach some far off goal. To improve myself. During the election I listened to Barack and Michelle Obama and I realized that there is a vast gulf between what they believe - their expectations - and mine. I grew up in a different America: one in which failure was always a possibility but in which there was also the promise of abundance beyond my wildest dreams. In many ways that is the world we live in now. Our homes, cars, electronic devices are newer, faster, cheaper, and more fully functional than anything I dreamed of back then. What disturbed me about their words was the realization that they viewed struggling and uncertainty as the Enemy. Whereas I viewed those things as the means to an end; goads that made me uncomfortable but also provided the impetus to propel me from my present state into a far better existence. They made me dissatisfied but also gave me hope that tomorrow would be better than today. I think Instapunk touched on an interesting thought in his essay. The God I grew up with was a demanding God. We were taught that man is sinful by nature and that only by constant struggle can we hope to transcend our lower selves. That was the essence and the meaning of life: constant struggle to overcome; to improve; to adapt and conquer. And that struggle - the source of our present prosperity and security - is precisely what many of us seek to eliminate. Their God is a non-judgmental, multicultural God. He sets forth no immutable laws, draws no bright lines between Good and Evil. And to a large extent even conservatives have bought into this seductive trap. We don't want to be judgmental of others. But more importantly we don't really want to find ourselves wanting. We have forgotten the purpose of discomfort, of shame, of having to deal with the disapprobation of others. In the world I grew up in, no government agency forced me to shine my children's shoes or comb their hair before going to the grocery store. It was the expectations of others - of society - that I voluntarily acceded to. I went along with these demands even though I often chafed at them, for I recognized the purpose behind these expectations. I knew that the world I grew up in was constantly vigilant against signs of decay, of backsliding, of the carelessness that could bring disaster on entire families and dash to pieces decades of careful, patient progress. We were mindful of the small signs of impending disaster; of the causal connections between decisions and consequences. For there was no safety net below that high wire we perched upon. On one side lay disaster and on the other, paradise. Now, we have grown comfortable in the certainty that we cannot fall too far. Someone - government - will catch us. And so we are sloppy in small ways. In a world with few inescapable consequences, we bridle at the thousand tiny course corrections, the constant nudging that kept most of us on the straight and narrow path. We yawn at things that used to cause us a healthy sense of alarm. The God of today is a tolerant, undemanding, comfortable God who thinks we're all special just as we are. Appeals to our better natures are deemed too confining, moralistic, outdated. I hear conservatives talk this way every day. But somewhere deep down, I think we know better. I think we sense that we are glossing over the faint whiff of moral rot; that we cloak moral relativism in self righteous declarations of an illusory freedom that never existed. Oh, we were free to defy the strictures of society; of state and local governments. And we were free to live with the consequences. For* there were consequences*, and they made us profoundly uncomfortable. But that was a world that understood consequences and for the most part, dealt with them head on. Looking back through the accumulated memories of over 30 years was a strange experience. I watched an old movie the other night with my son and daughter in law: Grand Canyon. It's a hard movie to watch because every scene is pervaded by a sense of uncertainty and pending disaster: reminders of how fragile life and happiness can be. But I love that movie because it is also pervaded by a sense of possibility. Better than anything else I've seen, it captures an ancient truth. We get so mired in the present. Our vision narrows down to the here and now: some minor calamity that has befallen us. But we forget the unforeseen possibilities - the unexpected good that comes from sorrow; the strange alchemy by which misfortune and discomfort open new doors or propel us down roads not taken. We lose sight of the fact that often it is those very struggles and setbacks that lead us on to bigger and better things; that we need darkness and despair and even shame just as much as we need security, love, acceptance. Or at least we need these things if we mean to continue improving our lot; mean to leave the world a better place than we found it; mean to put a hedge between prosperity and looming disaster. We need - desperately - to be unhappy and uncomfortable at times. To feel lonely or bored. To be dissatisfied and angry. The question is, what will we do with these feelings? What if the malaise that seems to have taken hold of America is not the disease itself but the cure for what ails us? We have been asleep too long: lulled into complacency by affluence and the absence of pain. And the more comfortable our daily lives become, the more wealth we amass, the more we fear losing it all; fear that we no longer have the determination to rebuild from the ashes. There is a scene from that movie I mentioned earlier. Two men sit on a curb in L.A. commiserating on the decline of the world they knew. "How did we get here?", they ask. "It's not supposed to be this way." But there are no guarantees and never have been. If we can just lift our eyes from our incessant navel gazing, we see a dizzying panorama of decision and consequence, of mistakes and course corrections, of disasters followed by periods of renaissance and rebirth. In the eyes of time, as one of the men finally remarks, we don't even amount to a millisecond: You ever been to the Grand Canyon? Its pretty, but thats not the thing of it. You can sit on the edge of that big ol' thing and those rocks... the cliffs and rocks are so old... it took so long for that thing to get like that... and it ain't done either! It happens right there while your watching it. Its happening right now as we are sitting here in this ugly town. When you sit on the edge of that thing, you realize what a joke we people really are... what big heads we have thinking that what we do is gonna matter all that much. Thinking that our time here means diddly to those rocks. Just a split second we have been here, the whole lot of us. That's a piece of time too small to even get a name. Those rocks are laughing at me right now, me and my worries. Yeah, its real humorous, that Grand Canyon. It's laughing at me right now. You know what I felt like? I felt like a gnat that lands on the ass of a cow chewing his cud on the side of the road that you drive by, doing 70 mph. Take heart. We mourn for what we fear is lost beyond recall, never realizing that it was we who built it in the first place. It is only that we have been living in a beautiful cocoon, largely insulated from worry, want, and pain. But Obama is wrong: struggle and aspiration are not the enemy we should fear. If we eliminate them, we eliminate the very things that created our present way of life; the galling prods that impelled us to do great things. In many ways we are victims of our own success. The real enemy is not failure, but the disconnected, trance like existence of a nation that views sadness and discomfort as diseases; tries to numb the pain and medicate away discomfort leaving us with a safe, but joyless world. Ask not for whom the alarm clock is buzzing. It buzzes for each of us. The world is no better or worse a place than it has ever been and human nature is unchanged, and unchangeable. That is the great danger - and the great hope - of our lives. Posted by Cassandra at 10:38 PM| Comments (39)|TrackBack (0)| Blogroll VC! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100103/13ac1ca5/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sun Jan 3 17:16:09 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:16:09 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Gun Control Message-ID: <324CA94F5A104E519D50B38B885867A6@YOURB88038198E> check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMeDmV0ufU Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100103/4fcec9b7/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Sun Jan 3 18:01:58 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:01:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Gun Control In-Reply-To: <324CA94F5A104E519D50B38B885867A6@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <157283.68816.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> George Soros....again...... elle --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Ed Kroposki wrote: From: Ed Kroposki Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Gun Control To: "Swift Water" Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 5:16 PM check this out: ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMeDmV0ufU ? Ed K -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100103/ee48127f/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 19:59:33 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 18:59:33 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Baby Sitting Message-ID: <400985d71001031659w35834537qbd4d7c288aa76e8b@mail.gmail.com> More, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" - http://vimeo.com/6594709 More on the issue below. And who was the single most frequent visitor to the White House in 2009? Brad ----------- * DECEMBER 25, 2009, 9:04 P.M. ET Michigan Forces Business Owners Into Public Sector Unions After hemorrhaging members for decades, labor unions have hit upon a new way to shore up their annual dues revenue. By PATRICK J. WRIGHT AND MICHAEL D. JAHR Flint, Mich. Michelle Berry runs a private day-care service from her home on the outskirts of this city, the birthplace of General Motors. "The Berry Patch," as she calls the service, features overstuffed purple gorillas, giant cartoon murals, and a playroom covered in Astroturf. Her clients are mostly low-income parents who need child care to keep their jobs in a city that now has a 26% unemployment rate. Ms. Berry owns her own business?yet the Michigan Department of Human Services claims she is a government employee and union member. The agency thus withholds union dues from the child-care subsidies it sends to her on behalf of her low-income clients. Those dues are funneled to a public-employee union that claims to represent her. The situation is crazy?and it's happening elsewhere in the country. A year ago in December, Ms. Berry and more than 40,000 other home-based day care providers statewide were suddenly informed they were members of Child Care Providers Together Michigan?a union created in 2006 by the United Auto Workers and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. The union had won a certification election conducted by mail under the auspices of the Michigan Employment Relations Commission. In that election only 6,000 day-care providers voted. The pro-labor vote turned out. Many of the state's other 34,000 day-care providers never even realized what was going on. Ms. Berry tells us she was "shocked" to find out she was suddenly in a union. The real dirty work, however, had been done when the state created an "employer" for the union to "organize" against. Of course, Michigan's independent day-care providers don't work for anybody except the parents who were their customers. Nevertheless, because some of these parents qualified for public subsidies, the Child Care Providers "union" claimed the providers were "public employees." Michigan's Department of Human Services then teamed with Flint-based Mott Community College to sign an "interlocal agreement" in 2006 establishing a separate government agency called the Michigan Home Based Child Care Council. This council was directed to recommend good child-care practices?and not coincidentally, to serve as a "public employer." Although the council had almost no staff, no control over the state subsidies and no supervision of the providers' daily activities, it became the shell corporation against which the union could organize. Thus the state created an ersatz employer and an ersatz "bargaining unit" against which what was essentially an ersatz union could organize. Today the Department of Human Services siphons about $3.7 million in annual dues to the union?from the child-care subsidies. The money should be going to home-based day-care providers?themselves not on the high end of the income scale. Ms. Berry now sees money once paid to her go to a union that does little for her. She says she is "self employed and wants nothing to do with the union." The union claims it is working for Ms. Berry and others like her by pressing the legislature to increase child-care payments. But lobbying is not an activity that requires compulsory unionism. Sherry Loar, who owns a day-care center in Petoskey, Mich., is the lead client in a lawsuit brought against the Department of Human Services in state court by the legal arm of the Michigan-based Mackinac Center, a free-market think tank for whom we work. (Ms. Berry is petitioning to join the suit.) The case is based on the grounds that state law presumes that no one is subject to public-sector bargaining unless state legislation has made them so, and in this case, there is no legislation?only the flimsy interlocal agreement. "I'm not opposed to unions," Ms. Loar says, "everything has a place. But when we enter my door, this is my home." The larger question, not part of this lawsuit, is whether this sort of unionization violates the U.S. Constitution. The freedom of association clause prevents compulsory unionism except, courts have determined, when it is necessary for "labor peace." But in this case, whom would the day-care providers riot against? The parents? The federal question may be raised soon, as other states have pursued similar unionization schemes over the past decade, primarily at the behest of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees and the Service Employees International Union, better known as the SEIU. Fourteen states have now enabled home-based day-care providers to be organized into public-employee unions, affecting about 233,000 people. And nine have done so with home health-care providers. The idea to unionize in this way was hatched in California, though ironically Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has vetoed legislation to unionize child-care providers. It's telling that in several states that have gone down this road, state and federal subsidies are the source of the union dues. In Michigan, the scheme is essentially throwing a cash lifeline to unions like the UAW, which are hemorrhaging members. There's another, ironic twist to the story in the Great Lakes state. Last month the Michigan Economic Development Corporation granted a for-profit SEIU subsidiary, the SEIU Member Action Service Center, a $2 million refundable tax credit to locate a new business facility in the state that will provide administrative services for the union and other local labor organizations. The subsidy strikes us as inappropriate because it categorized the SEIU subsidiary as a business and occurred just before the 5,000 member SEIU local 517M granted the state wage concessions. Shamelessly, the SEIU requested the credit because Michigan has high labor costs. Some states are redefining straightforward terms?a union as a business, an employer as an employee?primarily to aid organized labor. This highlights the need to re-examine public-sector collective bargaining. Shielded from market pressures, public employee unions have driven up taxpayer costs for decades. Now labor leaders are shanghaiing entrepreneurs such as Ms. Berry and Ms. Loar into government unions because their clients receive government aid. Who will be next? Grocers? Landlords? Doctors? Mr. Wright is director of the Mackinac Center Legal Foundation. Mr. Jahr is senior director of communications for the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a research and educational institute headquartered in Midland, Mich. From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 20:22:37 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:22:37 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Remember when ....... In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001031103yfbdf2f6l1eead8a76df94e56@mail.gmail.com> References: <6634e19e1001031103yfbdf2f6l1eead8a76df94e56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001031722j7617b847x90a6b44ca12b8451@mail.gmail.com> You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. ? Homer Simpson On 1/3/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Good afternoon All, > > Gotta thank Brad for pointing out this woman's blog a while back. Ain't no > doubt in my mind, she gets it. > > I have been cursing the govt's "safety nets" for a long time as the worst > thing that could happen to America. Safety is way over-rated. I believe the > quest for safety is leading us down the path to our own mediocrity and > eventual destruction. Allowing the possibility of failure may just be more > important to the human race than the possibility of success. > > Stupid is supposed to be painful. In the past, this pain has served a very > useful purpose. Now ..... stupid is something we want to reward. > > Uh .... how stupid is that??? > > Rik > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. > ________________________ > http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/ > This, Too > > *Where there is no vision, the people perish: > but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.* > > - Proverbs 29:18 > > On the top shelf of the armoire in my home office lie six boxes neatly > stacked in two orderly rows. They are an attractive, soothing shade of > green. The sides that face forward have neat labels as yet unblemished by my > hasty half printed, half cursive scrawl. They are waiting for a day when I > have the time to neatly label them in cursive; to form graceful, elegant > letters that please the eye and hint at a more thoughtful, deliberate life > than the one I really live. > > Inside the boxes are pictures; hundreds of family photographs formerly > squirreled away in hiding places all over the house. They were stashed in > half squished, disreputable looking shoe boxes with missing lids, hidden in > drawers, tucked inside of letters (who writes letters anymore?) sent and > received decades ago. I even found a cache buried deep in the recesses of my > husband's uniform closet: pictures of our sons as small boys. Pictures of a > doe eyed, suntanned, mostly barefoot young woman I barely recognize. "Brown > as a berry", my Dad used to say when I was little. The memory, like so many > memories, makes me smile. A few photos were nestled into piles of old > military orders and receipts. One or two were casually tossed into a box > containing ribbons, medals, and cold weather gear. > > In the three months since my husband left for Afghanistan I've been > retrieving pictures from all over the house, sorting them, and placing them > in neat, green boxes on a shelf in my office. There were a few surprises. > > [image: shortall.jpg]For one thing, I don't recall my offspring ever looking > that neat. I'm not a particularly tidy person. My memories of those years > include a vague but constant worry that I wasn't quite keeping up > appearances. I can't recall being particularly angst ridden about it, but > the feeling was never shoved too far back in my consciousness either. > > But clearly the boys did look neat and clean - at least some of the time. In > nearly every photograph their hair is freshly cut and combed, with a neat > part on the side. That's not too surprising; I cut their hair myself every > two weeks. It was easier to remember how to even out a cowlick or coax each > boy's locks into subservience to my maternal will if I didn't allow their > hair to grow too long or too uneven. But it wasn't just the hair. In each > photo their outfits are carefully coordinated. Quite a few photos show them > in coat and tie, a snazzy set of suspenders or, (when they were very small) > those old fashioned rompers and a pair of leather, hard soled English > sandals. > > That's when it hit me: it's not that I was particularly neat or my children > particularly well groomed or dressed. You can see the same thing looking > back at photos of the '50s and '60s in any public place. The men are dressed > in suits, the women all wear stockings. Many have gloves and hats. Change > happened gradually, but over the years it became harder and harder to find > little boys' suits, leather shoes, the well tailored clothes we saved for > months in order to buy and proudly sported at restaurants, airports, even > baseball games. No one, nowadays, bronzes their baby's first set of Nike > sneakers. They are nothing like the white leather baby shoes that required > so much polishing to keep them free of the dreaded black smudges that earned > disapproving looks from old ladies. > > And few people comb their childrens' hair anymore. It's such a bother. > Instead of crisp cottons that require ironing and special handling to look > snappy we have easy care polyester blends; outfits that don't require a > belt. Elastic waistbands. T-shirts instead of the collared polos and button > down Oxford cloth shirts I tortured my boys with Monday-Friday for school. I > can't remember the last time I saw a child in khakis and an Oxford cloth > shirt. Clothes today never stand out; never look particularly good but then > again they never manage to look completely dreadful either. > > It's a wash and wear world we live in. Care free. Free of that sense of > aspiring to something better; of striving to improve, outpace, to meet or > exceed the expectations of our parents, peers, co-workers. Free of > competition; free of the desire (much less the pressure) to excel. Mostly > free too, of the gnawing fear of failure; the ever present sense that > prosperity is not a guaranteed sinecure but a precarious tightrope between > the shame of being destitute and dependent and the pride of achievement and > affluence. > > For there is no shame in being needy anymore. We have destigmatized failure. > When we make poor choices it's never our fault. We were just unlucky. > Prosperity is something we take for granted in a way our parents and > grandparents, who came of age in a time before Social Security, 401Ks, > Medicare/Medicaid and unemployment insurance were never able to. How dare > the bank repossess "our" houses simply because we cannot afford to pay the > mortgage note? Why isn't someone doing something to allow us to keep what's > rightfully ours? > > Uncertainty - the fear that our carefully constructed worlds could so easily > collapse; that we were on the ascending path but could fall just as swiftly > as we had risen; that in an instant everything we had might be swept away - > is, I think, what lay behind what I saw in those old photos. To keep > uncertainty at bay we dressed up, put our best feet forward, struggled to be > better than our natures dictated. We did these things to assuage the > knowledge that nothing in life is guaranteed: not health, not wealth, not > happiness. Without a safety net, constant effort was required to keep the > human race on the upward path from savagery and want to civilization and > affluence and with every instinct in our being we continually reaffirmed and > celebrated the importance of being successful. Because the opposite of > success was failure, and failure was shameful. It could also be disastrous. > > Prosperity and abundance were things we didn't take for granted the way we > do now. It was all a question of expectations. We wanted wealth and security > but didn't expect these things. After all, success in those days was still > an aspiration. A hope, not a birthright. > > I can't help wondering if the growing disconnect between decision and > consequence; our bloated sense of entitlement and inflated expectation is > not behind many of the things I've been reading lately: Gerard's sense of > diminishment. > > Retriever's > disappointment? > > Instapunk's despair and loss of > faith? > > Their essays reminded me of something I read long ago. An essay written by a > dear friend about the danger of misplaced > expectations > : > > Life's disappointments are as varied as the landscape- the juvenile creek of > ?They promised it would snow last night!? winds through the vain woods of > ?the Smiths didn?t send us a Christmas card? to join the great river of > broken hearts on its way to the sea of ... um... metaphors. Irrespective of > its personal magnitude, however, every disappointment exposes two basic > human flaws; the first being the reliance on our own expectations (?I > screwed up, I trusted you?), and the second being the inability to correctly > anticipate the expectations of others (?You screwed up, you trusted me?). > Note that in both cases the blame cast is bi-directional. (The corollary to > this is the equally human phenomena of being pleased. Both require the > surprise that comes from misplaced expectations.) > > Little by little as we've grown more prosperous, more secure, our > expectations have grown until what once would have been a minor setback now > looks like an unmitigated disaster. We can't help viewing experience through > the lens of our expectations. Looking back through those photos I see a > rather pretty young woman: myself at 20, at 30, even at 40. But that > perception, too, is a function of expectation for I can't recall ever > feeling pretty at the time. I didn't ever feel ugly either. *It's just that > I wanted to be so much more,* and so that face in the mirror - the one that > now seems pretty to me - always fell short somehow. > > Now, at 50, I look back with the knowledge that I have taken those first few > steps along the downward path. It seems funny to me now, all those years of > wishing, hoping, struggling to reach some far off goal. To improve myself. > During the election I listened to Barack and Michelle Obama and I realized > that there is a vast gulf between what they believe - their expectations - > and mine. I grew up in a different America: one in which failure was always > a possibility but in which there was also the promise of abundance beyond my > wildest dreams. In many ways that is the world we live in now. Our homes, > cars, electronic devices are newer, faster, cheaper, and more fully > functional than anything I dreamed of back then. > > What disturbed me about their words was the realization that they viewed > struggling and uncertainty as the Enemy. Whereas I viewed those things as > the means to an end; goads that made me uncomfortable but also provided the > impetus to propel me from my present state into a far better existence. They > made me dissatisfied but also gave me hope that tomorrow would be better > than today. > > I think Instapunk touched on an interesting thought in his essay. The God I > grew up with was a demanding God. We were taught that man is sinful by > nature and that only by constant struggle can we hope to transcend our lower > selves. That was the essence and the meaning of life: constant struggle to > overcome; to improve; to adapt and conquer. And that struggle - the source > of our present prosperity and security - is precisely what many of us seek > to eliminate. > > Their God is a non-judgmental, multicultural God. He sets forth no immutable > laws, draws no bright lines between Good and Evil. And to a large extent > even conservatives have bought into this seductive trap. We don't want to be > judgmental of others. But more importantly we don't really want to find > ourselves wanting. We have forgotten the purpose of discomfort, of shame, of > having to deal with the disapprobation of others. > > In the world I grew up in, no government agency forced me to shine my > children's shoes or comb their hair before going to the grocery store. It > was the expectations of others - of society - that I voluntarily acceded to. > I went along with these demands even though I often chafed at them, for I > recognized the purpose behind these expectations. I knew that the world I > grew up in was constantly vigilant against signs of decay, of backsliding, > of the carelessness that could bring disaster on entire families and dash to > pieces decades of careful, patient progress. We were mindful of the small > signs of impending disaster; of the causal connections between decisions and > consequences. > > For there was no safety net below that high wire we perched upon. On one > side lay disaster and on the other, paradise. > > Now, we have grown comfortable in the certainty that we cannot fall too far. > Someone - government - will catch us. And so we are sloppy in small ways. In > a world with few inescapable consequences, we bridle at the thousand tiny > course corrections, the constant nudging that kept most of us on the > straight and narrow path. We yawn at things that used to cause us a healthy > sense of alarm. The God of today is a tolerant, undemanding, comfortable God > who thinks we're all special just as we are. Appeals to our better natures > are deemed too confining, moralistic, outdated. I hear conservatives talk > this way every day. > > But somewhere deep down, I think we know better. I think we sense that we > are glossing over the faint whiff of moral rot; that we cloak moral > relativism in self righteous declarations of an illusory freedom that never > existed. Oh, we were free to defy the strictures of society; of state and > local governments. And we were free to live with the consequences. > > For* there were consequences*, and they made us profoundly uncomfortable. > But that was a world that understood consequences and for the most part, > dealt with them head on. > > Looking back through the accumulated memories of over 30 years was a strange > experience. I watched an old movie the other night with my son and daughter > in law: Grand Canyon. It's a hard movie to watch because every scene is > pervaded by a sense of uncertainty and pending disaster: reminders of how > fragile life and happiness can be. But I love that movie because it is also > pervaded by a sense of possibility. Better than anything else I've seen, it > captures an ancient truth. > > We get so mired in the present. Our vision narrows down to the here and now: > some minor calamity that has befallen us. But we forget the unforeseen > possibilities - the unexpected good that comes from sorrow; the strange > alchemy by which misfortune and discomfort open new doors or propel us down > roads not taken. We lose sight of the fact that often it is those very > struggles and setbacks that lead us on to bigger and better things; that we > need darkness and despair and even shame just as much as we need security, > love, acceptance. > > Or at least we need these things if we mean to continue improving our lot; > mean to leave the world a better place than we found it; mean to put a hedge > between prosperity and looming disaster. We need - desperately - to be > unhappy and uncomfortable at times. To feel lonely or bored. To be > dissatisfied and angry. > > The question is, what will we do with these feelings? What if the malaise > that seems to have taken hold of America is not the disease itself but the > cure for what ails us? > > We have been asleep too long: lulled into complacency by affluence and the > absence of pain. And the more comfortable our daily lives become, the more > wealth we amass, the more we fear losing it all; fear that we no longer have > the determination to rebuild from the ashes. > > There is a scene from that movie I mentioned earlier. Two men sit on a curb > in L.A. commiserating on the decline of the world they knew. "How did we get > here?", they ask. "It's not supposed to be this way." > > But there are no guarantees and never have been. If we can just lift our > eyes from our incessant navel gazing, we see a dizzying panorama of decision > and consequence, of mistakes and course corrections, of disasters followed > by periods of renaissance and rebirth. In the eyes of time, as one of the > men finally remarks, we don't even amount to a millisecond: > > You ever been to the Grand Canyon? Its pretty, but thats not the thing of > it. You can sit on the edge of that big ol' thing and those rocks... the > cliffs and rocks are so old... it took so long for that thing to get like > that... and it ain't done either! It happens right there while your watching > it. Its happening right now as we are sitting here in this ugly town. > > When you sit on the edge of that thing, you realize what a joke we people > really are... what big heads we have thinking that what we do is gonna > matter all that much. Thinking that our time here means diddly to those > rocks. Just a split second we have been here, the whole lot of us. That's a > piece of time too small to even get a name. Those rocks are laughing at me > right now, me and my worries. > > Yeah, its real humorous, that Grand Canyon. It's laughing at me right now. > You know what I felt like? I felt like a gnat that lands on the ass of a cow > chewing his cud on the side of the road that you drive by, doing 70 mph. > > Take heart. We mourn for what we fear is lost beyond recall, never realizing > that it was we who built it in the first place. It is only that we have been > living in a beautiful cocoon, largely insulated from worry, want, and pain. > But Obama is wrong: struggle and aspiration are not the enemy we should > fear. If we eliminate them, we eliminate the very things that created our > present way of life; the galling prods that impelled us to do great things. > In many ways we are victims of our own success. The real enemy is not > failure, but the disconnected, trance like existence of a nation that views > sadness and discomfort as diseases; tries to numb the pain and medicate away > discomfort leaving us with a safe, but joyless world. > > Ask not for whom the alarm clock is buzzing. It buzzes for each of us. The > world is no better or worse a place than it has ever been and human nature > is unchanged, and unchangeable. That is the great danger - and the great > hope - of our lives. > > Posted by Cassandra at 10:38 > PM| > Comments > (39)|TrackBack > (0)| > Blogroll > VC! > From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 20:53:45 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:53:45 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] It's Come To This! In-Reply-To: <400985d70912310613x4b8b9devf1febb1c90e13e08@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70912310613x4b8b9devf1febb1c90e13e08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001031753i4927d40fta95bd792a6dfdec6@mail.gmail.com> Update - http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/03/report-tsa-special-a.html Don't worry, you're in the best of hands. Brad On 12/31/09, Brad Haslett wrote: > Remember the website you were exposed to the other day? Flying With > Fish? Well, the TSA seized his computer and he's in some hot water. > > http://tinyurl.com/yg7h4vu > > Is there anyone who doesn't know the new rules from reading a paper or > watching TV? Anyone flown in the past few days? Did they explain the > new rules? > > This is YOUR government going after a private citizen. > > Hope and Change, Baby! > > Brad > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 22:06:24 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 21:06:24 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Remember when ....... In-Reply-To: <400985d71001031722j7617b847x90a6b44ca12b8451@mail.gmail.com> References: <6634e19e1001031103yfbdf2f6l1eead8a76df94e56@mail.gmail.com> <400985d71001031722j7617b847x90a6b44ca12b8451@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001031906k168d1febn57f6cec2570515e7@mail.gmail.com> Brad, Interesting. I hadn't read the comments before. The majority of them completely missed the point..... When it's spelled out that well and they still don't get it, is any wonder we're in trouble?? Rik On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. > ? Homer Simpson > > > > On 1/3/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > Good afternoon All, > > > > Gotta thank Brad for pointing out this woman's blog a while back. Ain't > no > > doubt in my mind, she gets it. > > > > I have been cursing the govt's "safety nets" for a long time as the worst > > thing that could happen to America. Safety is way over-rated. I believe > the > > quest for safety is leading us down the path to our own mediocrity and > > eventual destruction. Allowing the possibility of failure may just be > more > > important to the human race than the possibility of success. > > > > Stupid is supposed to be painful. In the past, this pain has served a > very > > useful purpose. Now ..... stupid is something we want to reward. > > > > Uh .... how stupid is that??? > > > > Rik > > > > -- > > 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. > > ________________________ > > http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/ > > This, Too > > > > *Where there is no vision, the people perish: > > but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.* > > > > - Proverbs 29:18 > > > > On the top shelf of the armoire in my home office lie six boxes neatly > > stacked in two orderly rows. They are an attractive, soothing shade of > > green. The sides that face forward have neat labels as yet unblemished by > my > > hasty half printed, half cursive scrawl. They are waiting for a day when > I > > have the time to neatly label them in cursive; to form graceful, elegant > > letters that please the eye and hint at a more thoughtful, deliberate > life > > than the one I really live. > > > > Inside the boxes are pictures; hundreds of family photographs formerly > > squirreled away in hiding places all over the house. They were stashed in > > half squished, disreputable looking shoe boxes with missing lids, hidden > in > > drawers, tucked inside of letters (who writes letters anymore?) sent and > > received decades ago. I even found a cache buried deep in the recesses of > my > > husband's uniform closet: pictures of our sons as small boys. Pictures of > a > > doe eyed, suntanned, mostly barefoot young woman I barely recognize. > "Brown > > as a berry", my Dad used to say when I was little. The memory, like so > many > > memories, makes me smile. A few photos were nestled into piles of old > > military orders and receipts. One or two were casually tossed into a box > > containing ribbons, medals, and cold weather gear. > > > > In the three months since my husband left for Afghanistan I've been > > retrieving pictures from all over the house, sorting them, and placing > them > > in neat, green boxes on a shelf in my office. There were a few surprises. > > > > [image: shortall.jpg]For one thing, I don't recall my offspring ever > looking > > that neat. I'm not a particularly tidy person. My memories of those years > > include a vague but constant worry that I wasn't quite keeping up > > appearances. I can't recall being particularly angst ridden about it, but > > the feeling was never shoved too far back in my consciousness either. > > > > But clearly the boys did look neat and clean - at least some of the time. > In > > nearly every photograph their hair is freshly cut and combed, with a neat > > part on the side. That's not too surprising; I cut their hair myself > every > > two weeks. It was easier to remember how to even out a cowlick or coax > each > > boy's locks into subservience to my maternal will if I didn't allow their > > hair to grow too long or too uneven. But it wasn't just the hair. In each > > photo their outfits are carefully coordinated. Quite a few photos show > them > > in coat and tie, a snazzy set of suspenders or, (when they were very > small) > > those old fashioned rompers and a pair of leather, hard soled English > > sandals. > > > > That's when it hit me: it's not that I was particularly neat or my > children > > particularly well groomed or dressed. You can see the same thing looking > > back at photos of the '50s and '60s in any public place. The men are > dressed > > in suits, the women all wear stockings. Many have gloves and hats. Change > > happened gradually, but over the years it became harder and harder to > find > > little boys' suits, leather shoes, the well tailored clothes we saved for > > months in order to buy and proudly sported at restaurants, airports, even > > baseball games. No one, nowadays, bronzes their baby's first set of Nike > > sneakers. They are nothing like the white leather baby shoes that > required > > so much polishing to keep them free of the dreaded black smudges that > earned > > disapproving looks from old ladies. > > > > And few people comb their childrens' hair anymore. It's such a bother. > > Instead of crisp cottons that require ironing and special handling to > look > > snappy we have easy care polyester blends; outfits that don't require a > > belt. Elastic waistbands. T-shirts instead of the collared polos and > button > > down Oxford cloth shirts I tortured my boys with Monday-Friday for > school. I > > can't remember the last time I saw a child in khakis and an Oxford cloth > > shirt. Clothes today never stand out; never look particularly good but > then > > again they never manage to look completely dreadful either. > > > > It's a wash and wear world we live in. Care free. Free of that sense of > > aspiring to something better; of striving to improve, outpace, to meet or > > exceed the expectations of our parents, peers, co-workers. Free of > > competition; free of the desire (much less the pressure) to excel. Mostly > > free too, of the gnawing fear of failure; the ever present sense that > > prosperity is not a guaranteed sinecure but a precarious tightrope > between > > the shame of being destitute and dependent and the pride of achievement > and > > affluence. > > > > For there is no shame in being needy anymore. We have destigmatized > failure. > > When we make poor choices it's never our fault. We were just unlucky. > > Prosperity is something we take for granted in a way our parents and > > grandparents, who came of age in a time before Social Security, 401Ks, > > Medicare/Medicaid and unemployment insurance were never able to. How dare > > the bank repossess "our" houses simply because we cannot afford to pay > the > > mortgage note? Why isn't someone doing something to allow us to keep > what's > > rightfully ours? > > > > Uncertainty - the fear that our carefully constructed worlds could so > easily > > collapse; that we were on the ascending path but could fall just as > swiftly > > as we had risen; that in an instant everything we had might be swept away > - > > is, I think, what lay behind what I saw in those old photos. To keep > > uncertainty at bay we dressed up, put our best feet forward, struggled to > be > > better than our natures dictated. We did these things to assuage the > > knowledge that nothing in life is guaranteed: not health, not wealth, not > > happiness. Without a safety net, constant effort was required to keep the > > human race on the upward path from savagery and want to civilization and > > affluence and with every instinct in our being we continually reaffirmed > and > > celebrated the importance of being successful. Because the opposite of > > success was failure, and failure was shameful. It could also be > disastrous. > > > > Prosperity and abundance were things we didn't take for granted the way > we > > do now. It was all a question of expectations. We wanted wealth and > security > > but didn't expect these things. After all, success in those days was > still > > an aspiration. A hope, not a birthright. > > > > I can't help wondering if the growing disconnect between decision and > > consequence; our bloated sense of entitlement and inflated expectation is > > not behind many of the things I've been reading lately: Gerard's sense of > > diminishment.< > http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/american_studies/the_season_of_the_grinch.php > > > > > > Retriever's > > disappointment?< > http://artemisretriever.blogspot.com/2009/12/we-had-expected-more.html> > > > > Instapunk's despair and loss of > > faith? > > > > Their essays reminded me of something I read long ago. An essay written > by a > > dear friend about the danger of misplaced > > expectations< > http://sadspud.blogspot.com/2008/03/spds-big-book-of-little-disappointments.html > > > > : > > > > Life's disappointments are as varied as the landscape- the juvenile creek > of > > ?They promised it would snow last night!? winds through the vain woods of > > ?the Smiths didn?t send us a Christmas card? to join the great river of > > broken hearts on its way to the sea of ... um... metaphors. Irrespective > of > > its personal magnitude, however, every disappointment exposes two basic > > human flaws; the first being the reliance on our own expectations (?I > > screwed up, I trusted you?), and the second being the inability to > correctly > > anticipate the expectations of others (?You screwed up, you trusted me?). > > Note that in both cases the blame cast is bi-directional. (The corollary > to > > this is the equally human phenomena of being pleased. Both require the > > surprise that comes from misplaced expectations.) > > > > Little by little as we've grown more prosperous, more secure, our > > expectations have grown until what once would have been a minor setback > now > > looks like an unmitigated disaster. We can't help viewing experience > through > > the lens of our expectations. Looking back through those photos I see a > > rather pretty young woman: myself at 20, at 30, even at 40. But that > > perception, too, is a function of expectation for I can't recall ever > > feeling pretty at the time. I didn't ever feel ugly either. *It's just > that > > I wanted to be so much more,* and so that face in the mirror - the one > that > > now seems pretty to me - always fell short somehow. > > > > Now, at 50, I look back with the knowledge that I have taken those first > few > > steps along the downward path. It seems funny to me now, all those years > of > > wishing, hoping, struggling to reach some far off goal. To improve > myself. > > During the election I listened to Barack and Michelle Obama and I > realized > > that there is a vast gulf between what they believe - their expectations > - > > and mine. I grew up in a different America: one in which failure was > always > > a possibility but in which there was also the promise of abundance beyond > my > > wildest dreams. In many ways that is the world we live in now. Our homes, > > cars, electronic devices are newer, faster, cheaper, and more fully > > functional than anything I dreamed of back then. > > > > What disturbed me about their words was the realization that they viewed > > struggling and uncertainty as the Enemy. Whereas I viewed those things as > > the means to an end; goads that made me uncomfortable but also provided > the > > impetus to propel me from my present state into a far better existence. > They > > made me dissatisfied but also gave me hope that tomorrow would be better > > than today. > > > > I think Instapunk touched on an interesting thought in his essay. The God > I > > grew up with was a demanding God. We were taught that man is sinful by > > nature and that only by constant struggle can we hope to transcend our > lower > > selves. That was the essence and the meaning of life: constant struggle > to > > overcome; to improve; to adapt and conquer. And that struggle - the > source > > of our present prosperity and security - is precisely what many of us > seek > > to eliminate. > > > > Their God is a non-judgmental, multicultural God. He sets forth no > immutable > > laws, draws no bright lines between Good and Evil. And to a large extent > > even conservatives have bought into this seductive trap. We don't want to > be > > judgmental of others. But more importantly we don't really want to find > > ourselves wanting. We have forgotten the purpose of discomfort, of shame, > of > > having to deal with the disapprobation of others. > > > > In the world I grew up in, no government agency forced me to shine my > > children's shoes or comb their hair before going to the grocery store. It > > was the expectations of others - of society - that I voluntarily acceded > to. > > I went along with these demands even though I often chafed at them, for I > > recognized the purpose behind these expectations. I knew that the world I > > grew up in was constantly vigilant against signs of decay, of > backsliding, > > of the carelessness that could bring disaster on entire families and dash > to > > pieces decades of careful, patient progress. We were mindful of the small > > signs of impending disaster; of the causal connections between decisions > and > > consequences. > > > > For there was no safety net below that high wire we perched upon. On one > > side lay disaster and on the other, paradise. > > > > Now, we have grown comfortable in the certainty that we cannot fall too > far. > > Someone - government - will catch us. And so we are sloppy in small ways. > In > > a world with few inescapable consequences, we bridle at the thousand tiny > > course corrections, the constant nudging that kept most of us on the > > straight and narrow path. We yawn at things that used to cause us a > healthy > > sense of alarm. The God of today is a tolerant, undemanding, comfortable > God > > who thinks we're all special just as we are. Appeals to our better > natures > > are deemed too confining, moralistic, outdated. I hear conservatives talk > > this way every day. > > > > But somewhere deep down, I think we know better. I think we sense that we > > are glossing over the faint whiff of moral rot; that we cloak moral > > relativism in self righteous declarations of an illusory freedom that > never > > existed. Oh, we were free to defy the strictures of society; of state and > > local governments. And we were free to live with the consequences. > > > > For* there were consequences*, and they made us profoundly uncomfortable. > > But that was a world that understood consequences and for the most part, > > dealt with them head on. > > > > Looking back through the accumulated memories of over 30 years was a > strange > > experience. I watched an old movie the other night with my son and > daughter > > in law: Grand Canyon. It's a hard movie to watch because every scene is > > pervaded by a sense of uncertainty and pending disaster: reminders of how > > fragile life and happiness can be. But I love that movie because it is > also > > pervaded by a sense of possibility. Better than anything else I've seen, > it > > captures an ancient truth. > > > > We get so mired in the present. Our vision narrows down to the here and > now: > > some minor calamity that has befallen us. But we forget the unforeseen > > possibilities - the unexpected good that comes from sorrow; the strange > > alchemy by which misfortune and discomfort open new doors or propel us > down > > roads not taken. We lose sight of the fact that often it is those very > > struggles and setbacks that lead us on to bigger and better things; that > we > > need darkness and despair and even shame just as much as we need > security, > > love, acceptance. > > > > Or at least we need these things if we mean to continue improving our > lot; > > mean to leave the world a better place than we found it; mean to put a > hedge > > between prosperity and looming disaster. We need - desperately - to be > > unhappy and uncomfortable at times. To feel lonely or bored. To be > > dissatisfied and angry. > > > > The question is, what will we do with these feelings? What if the malaise > > that seems to have taken hold of America is not the disease itself but > the > > cure for what ails us? > > > > We have been asleep too long: lulled into complacency by affluence and > the > > absence of pain. And the more comfortable our daily lives become, the > more > > wealth we amass, the more we fear losing it all; fear that we no longer > have > > the determination to rebuild from the ashes. > > > > There is a scene from that movie I mentioned earlier. Two men sit on a > curb > > in L.A. commiserating on the decline of the world they knew. "How did we > get > > here?", they ask. "It's not supposed to be this way." > > > > But there are no guarantees and never have been. If we can just lift our > > eyes from our incessant navel gazing, we see a dizzying panorama of > decision > > and consequence, of mistakes and course corrections, of disasters > followed > > by periods of renaissance and rebirth. In the eyes of time, as one of the > > men finally remarks, we don't even amount to a millisecond: > > > > You ever been to the Grand Canyon? Its pretty, but thats not the thing of > > it. You can sit on the edge of that big ol' thing and those rocks... the > > cliffs and rocks are so old... it took so long for that thing to get like > > that... and it ain't done either! It happens right there while your > watching > > it. Its happening right now as we are sitting here in this ugly town. > > > > When you sit on the edge of that thing, you realize what a joke we people > > really are... what big heads we have thinking that what we do is gonna > > matter all that much. Thinking that our time here means diddly to those > > rocks. Just a split second we have been here, the whole lot of us. That's > a > > piece of time too small to even get a name. Those rocks are laughing at > me > > right now, me and my worries. > > > > Yeah, its real humorous, that Grand Canyon. It's laughing at me right > now. > > You know what I felt like? I felt like a gnat that lands on the ass of a > cow > > chewing his cud on the side of the road that you drive by, doing 70 mph. > > > > Take heart. We mourn for what we fear is lost beyond recall, never > realizing > > that it was we who built it in the first place. It is only that we have > been > > living in a beautiful cocoon, largely insulated from worry, want, and > pain. > > But Obama is wrong: struggle and aspiration are not the enemy we should > > fear. If we eliminate them, we eliminate the very things that created our > > present way of life; the galling prods that impelled us to do great > things. > > In many ways we are victims of our own success. The real enemy is not > > failure, but the disconnected, trance like existence of a nation that > views > > sadness and discomfort as diseases; tries to numb the pain and medicate > away > > discomfort leaving us with a safe, but joyless world. > > > > Ask not for whom the alarm clock is buzzing. It buzzes for each of us. > The > > world is no better or worse a place than it has ever been and human > nature > > is unchanged, and unchangeable. That is the great danger - and the great > > hope - of our lives. > > > > Posted by Cassandra at 10:38 > > PM< > http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2009/12/this_too.html>| > > Comments > > (39)< > http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2009/12/this_too.html#comments > >|TrackBack > > (0)< > http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2009/12/this_too.html#trackbacks > >| > > Blogroll > > VC! http://www.blogrolling.com/add_links_pop.phtml?u=http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/&t=Villainous%20Company > ','rollit','scrollbars=no,width=475,height=350,left=75,top=175,status=yes,resizable=yes'));rollpop.focus();> > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100103/6d5b61be/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 08:36:13 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:36:13 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Black Hole Message-ID: <400985d71001040536o6c9a44eas3a96449ca9766972@mail.gmail.com> Gone! You can audit the books all you want, this money has gone down a black hole, never to be found - http://tinyurl.com/yfqt4xf The real estate meltdown is another black hole that you can't pour enough money into - http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/81534.html The market is clearing out the excess inventory - I bought one, my friends have purchased two and are looking for more. But, it takes time. The "shadow inventory" of houses that lenders aren't receiving payments on but haven't foreclosed on is bigger than the current inventory actually on the market. Until we accept that people made bets in the wrong direction, and lost, we'll never recover from real estate and the economic recovery will continue to be postponed. Your government has maxed out all its credit cards. Printing is all that is left. Brad From mweisner at ebsmed.com Mon Jan 4 09:04:50 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:04:50 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Black Hole References: <400985d71001040536o6c9a44eas3a96449ca9766972@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Brad, Thank you ever so much for www.recovery.gov! This is absolutely amazing! I wondered where the local town government got the funding to provide sod soccer fields in the local parks during a year in which people are losing their shirts, homes and jobs. As a girls soccer league coach now able to play on these beautiful fields, I was amazed at the extravagant spending - now I know how it was funded. Job creation? Not at all - just put the dollars into the pockets of some of the local theiving contractors (OK, they didn't have to layoff their illegals.) BTW, not one of the renovated fields will last since they neglected to install sprinkler systems or proper drainage. This has been a total waste of money, although a very visible "improvement" to the casual observer. I wish that they had asked me. I have been requesting a pair of Phillips HeartStart AEDs at each of these fields for years. Cost? Less than $25K, total. Jobs saved, 0. Lives saved ... immeasurable (not just the kids playing but also the older folks watching.) Who would be impressed by those ugly orange posts with boxes stuck on them that stick out like a sore thumb on an otherwise beautiful field? Just me and every other CPR/AED trained individual, until one is needed! Wow, this site is interesting ... Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Monday, January 04, 2010 8:36 AM > Gone! You can audit the books all you want, this money has gone down a > black hole, never to be found - > > http://tinyurl.com/yfqt4xf > > The real estate meltdown is another black hole that you can't pour > enough money into - > > http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/81534.html > > The market is clearing out the excess inventory - I bought one, my > friends have purchased two and are looking for more. But, it takes > time. The "shadow inventory" of houses that lenders aren't receiving > payments on but haven't foreclosed on is bigger than the current > inventory actually on the market. Until we accept that people made > bets in the wrong direction, and lost, we'll never recover from real > estate and the economic recovery will continue to be postponed. > > Your government has maxed out all its credit cards. Printing is all > that is left. > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 09:35:27 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 08:35:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Black Hole In-Reply-To: <400985d71001040536o6c9a44eas3a96449ca9766972@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001040536o6c9a44eas3a96449ca9766972@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001040635y4682ea6ag7d0293eb8b1e252d@mail.gmail.com> Brad, Yesterday I was talking about stupid being painful. We wouldn't buy this stuff for ourselves when times were good because, apparently we thought we couldn't afford it. Now that times are tough we can't get enough of it??? This is so far out of the realm of common sense that one must begin to wonder about the motive for it. Who might want to destabilize America's currency?? My own thoughts on this are, it's time to tell the U.N. that they shouldn't let the door hit them in the ass on the way out. There's more going on here than meets the eye. Rik On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > Gone! You can audit the books all you want, this money has gone down a > black hole, never to be found - > > http://tinyurl.com/yfqt4xf > > The real estate meltdown is another black hole that you can't pour > enough money into - > > http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/81534.html > > The market is clearing out the excess inventory - I bought one, my > friends have purchased two and are looking for more. But, it takes > time. The "shadow inventory" of houses that lenders aren't receiving > payments on but haven't foreclosed on is bigger than the current > inventory actually on the market. Until we accept that people made > bets in the wrong direction, and lost, we'll never recover from real > estate and the economic recovery will continue to be postponed. > > Your government has maxed out all its credit cards. Printing is all > that is left. > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/39211624/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 12:03:04 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:03:04 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Black Hole In-Reply-To: References: <400985d71001040536o6c9a44eas3a96449ca9766972@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001040903h78f5e50mb36608c2f6cacf61@mail.gmail.com> Mike, The city between mine and Memphis (they all run together), Germantown, TN, wrote a record number of requests for funding of "shovel ready" projects. One route I drive twice a week is being turned into a 4-lane via "stimulus" money. It needed to be anyway, but G'town isn't exactly impoverished and they have the tax base to pay for their own improvements. What G-town had that other 'burgs' didn't is plenty of talent available to compose requests and "play the 'gubmint' game. They won, big time. Obviously, someone in your town has talent. Every time I drive to the sailboat or Florida, I pass 1 mile stretches of highway that are being repaved via recovery.gov. The ten miles prior, and the ten miles of pavement after the recovery.gov signs ($3k each installed) seem to be in fine shape. How did "they" determine exactly which spot was the "magic mile"? Don't even get me started on Katrina. I just found out last night that one of our contractor friends we met on the MS Gulf Coast is in jail in New Orleans. He moved to NOLA and tried to lure us there. I told him last February, "Bob, you're being played for a sucker. The locals aren't working with you, they're setting you up!" They were, and they did. Having a corrupt government, local, state, or federal, is bad enough. Having one with unlimited access to borrowed money is a recipe for disaster. Brad On 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > Thank you ever so much for www.recovery.gov! This is absolutely amazing! > > I wondered where the local town government got the funding to provide sod > soccer fields in the local parks during a year in which people are losing > their shirts, homes and jobs. As a girls soccer league coach now able to > play on these beautiful fields, I was amazed at the extravagant spending - > now I know how it was funded. Job creation? Not at all - just put the > dollars into the pockets of some of the local theiving contractors (OK, they > didn't have to layoff their illegals.) BTW, not one of the renovated fields > will last since they neglected to install sprinkler systems or proper > drainage. This has been a total waste of money, although a very visible > "improvement" to the casual observer. > > I wish that they had asked me. I have been requesting a pair of Phillips > HeartStart AEDs at each of these fields for years. Cost? Less than $25K, > total. Jobs saved, 0. Lives saved ... immeasurable (not just the kids > playing but also the older folks watching.) Who would be impressed by those > ugly orange posts with boxes stuck on them that stick out like a sore thumb > on an otherwise beautiful field? Just me and every other CPR/AED trained > individual, until one is needed! > > Wow, this site is interesting ... > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Monday, January 04, 2010 8:36 AM >> Gone! You can audit the books all you want, this money has gone down a >> black hole, never to be found - >> >> http://tinyurl.com/yfqt4xf >> >> The real estate meltdown is another black hole that you can't pour >> enough money into - >> >> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/81534.html >> >> The market is clearing out the excess inventory - I bought one, my >> friends have purchased two and are looking for more. But, it takes >> time. The "shadow inventory" of houses that lenders aren't receiving >> payments on but haven't foreclosed on is bigger than the current >> inventory actually on the market. Until we accept that people made >> bets in the wrong direction, and lost, we'll never recover from real >> estate and the economic recovery will continue to be postponed. >> >> Your government has maxed out all its credit cards. Printing is all >> that is left. >> >> Brad >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 12:27:27 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:27:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The War We're Losing Message-ID: <400985d71001040927h2467b155g47cbdad95122983c@mail.gmail.com> When Yon said we were losing in Iraq, we were losing. Forget what you read in the MSM, read Yon - http://www.michaelyon-online.com/canadian-cover-up.htm I got some intel yesterday on Afghanistan (from a returning co-worker) and will get some more tomorrow (nothing classified but stuff I won't discuss in cyberspace). I'll get some more tomorrow morning. This we can discuss - the ROE (rules of engagements) are such that our guys can't shoot without 3 layers of approval and that won't be granted if there's the slightest chance of collateral damage (and the bad guys always keep enough women and children nearby to assure that). The "we'll leave in 18 months" is pure political bullshit cover. As Yon said two years ago in Iraq, the tide turned when al-Qaeda raped one too many 13-year old boys. We're in for a long struggle, assuming we intend to fight. Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 12:49:54 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:49:54 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NPR Message-ID: <400985d71001040949w6c735066r10b9c3413493ec16@mail.gmail.com> This is a "line in the sand" they just crossed - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120344047 CUT THEIR DAMN FUNDING! There is no pretending what they really are anymore! Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 14:41:31 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:41:31 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Sports Message-ID: <400985d71001041141ue43e79cp11be334c3c906eed@mail.gmail.com> This is awesome - http://www.breitbart.tv/florida-forward-tosses-75-footer-at-the-buzzer-for-win-over-north-carolina/ Spencer (yungsunwun) and I went to the Liberty Bowl over the weekend. We made it to half-time before we left at the point of freezing our azzes off. He's a graduate of Arkansas as well as UALR (my school) so we had an interest in the game, but not THAT much. I asked Spence why his mother didn't come to the game and spend the weekend with us and he said, "Dad, she's an Arkansas fan, but she's not stupid". We were stupid - it was freakin' cold! Brad From hparsons at parsonsys.com Mon Jan 4 16:16:58 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:16:58 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NPR In-Reply-To: <400985d71001040949w6c735066r10b9c3413493ec16@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001040949w6c735066r10b9c3413493ec16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001041316v611f626av133c4f038af0a998@mail.gmail.com> Isn't it amazing that you and I, at the point of a gun, get to help pay for this; but the libs try to push the latest iteration of the "fairness doctrine" on commercial radio which supports itself? On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > This is a "line in the sand" they just crossed - > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120344047 > > CUT THEIR DAMN FUNDING! There is no pretending what they really are > anymore! > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/aa454ff8/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 16:42:10 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:42:10 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Sports In-Reply-To: <400985d71001041141ue43e79cp11be334c3c906eed@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001041141ue43e79cp11be334c3c906eed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001041342u6a7c7ddelcc04d56512b858e5@mail.gmail.com> Brad, Shooting from the oppositions 3 point circle oughta' be a 6 point shot. Sucks to be from NC right about then, eh. Rik On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > This is awesome - > > > http://www.breitbart.tv/florida-forward-tosses-75-footer-at-the-buzzer-for-win-over-north-carolina/ > Spencer (yungsunwun) and I went to the Liberty Bowl over the weekend. > We made it to half-time before we left at the point of freezing our > azzes off. He's a graduate of Arkansas as well as UALR (my school) so > we had an interest in the game, but not THAT much. I asked Spence why > his mother didn't come to the game and spend the weekend with us and > he said, "Dad, she's an Arkansas fan, but she's not stupid". We were > stupid - it was freakin' cold! > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/e84e1546/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 17:23:02 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:23:02 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NPR In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001041316v611f626av133c4f038af0a998@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001040949w6c735066r10b9c3413493ec16@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001041316v611f626av133c4f038af0a998@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001041423h16c5e750t9fdbfdbe9f8204c9@mail.gmail.com> Brad, Herb, Yeah, I was out in the car today, so was listening to MPR. There were some journalists having a debate about whether the govt should bail out the MSM media outlets, or just let them fade away to bankruptcy and oblivion. There was a great deal of discussion about who offered the most "real" news coverage, (with the obvious expected liberal slant) but none about the real problem. These businesses are not able to support themselves anymore. Then, I almost choked when they started talking about non-profits vs profit making companies. I'm thinking: C'mon people .... are you so foolish as to believe that people who work for non-profits don't make money?? What do you suppose they buy their groceries with?? What the hell do you think "profit" is??? Do you folks honestly believe that it is somehow different to pay the owner of MPR (for example) a quarter million dollars a year as a salary via a non-profit corporation as opposed to him taking a quarter million dollar profit home as the owner of a for-profit company?? The liberal perception that non-profits don't "make" money is a perfect example of naive liberal thinking. Anyway, my thinking was, if we want to guarantee the mediocre, slanted news reporting that has been the norm from the MSM for the last decade or so, then hell yeah, lets bail 'em out. Might as well let the govt run them too. They're already in their pocket anyway. Look at the great job govt is doing with GM and the banks. That should make the choices obvious..... no?? /sarc As to MPR (NPR): I have donated to them for quite a few years. However, since this last election I am having my gag reflex exercised far too often and I think they''re gonna have to find another fish. Rik On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: > Isn't it amazing that you and I, at the point of a gun, get to help pay for > this; but the libs try to push the latest iteration of the "fairness > doctrine" on commercial radio which supports itself? > > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > >> This is a "line in the sand" they just crossed - >> >> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120344047 >> >> CUT THEIR DAMN FUNDING! There is no pretending what they really are >> anymore! >> >> Brad >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/34373a75/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 19:14:25 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 18:14:25 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat Message-ID: <6634e19e1001041614u356dbb6u4441ae3ec8c069bc@mail.gmail.com> Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, *Holy crap! My cat is a democrat!* (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/a67e9500/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Mon Jan 4 19:42:19 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:42:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001041614u356dbb6u4441ae3ec8c069bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470881.36659.qm@web111212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What does? 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/10e328ba/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 20:25:25 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:25:25 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <470881.36659.qm@web111212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <6634e19e1001041614u356dbb6u4441ae3ec8c069bc@mail.gmail.com> <470881.36659.qm@web111212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001041725u42abefb2s4071d67faa1102c6@mail.gmail.com> Elle, Depends on whether size is important to you or not. The .45 Automatic Colt Pistol is a very large, powerful, manly, .... uh .... hand gun http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 Seriously, .45 ammo has a bullet (the lead part) almost twice the size of next most popular handgun ammo (9mm/38). Can't do the math, but that adds up to a lot more foot pounds of energy delivered to the target. So, the possible need to fire twice to stop your target is very definitely reduced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP Rik On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 6:42 PM, elle wrote: > What does > > 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? > > Is this a guy thing??? > > elle > > --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg * wrote: > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" < > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com> > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > > > Good evening All, > > Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a > democrat" > > What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! > > ____________________________ > > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: > > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She > can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. > > Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year > for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For > this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice > neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not > required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. > > She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these > accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has > absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others > who go out and earn a living every day. > > I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in > the head, *Holy crap! My cat is a democrat!* > > (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an > email) > > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/384a5e04/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Mon Jan 4 20:26:24 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 20:26:24 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat References: <470881.36659.qm@web111212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Elle, .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike From: elle Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM What does 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100104/76bc6d83/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 21:44:54 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 20:44:54 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bombs Message-ID: <400985d71001041844t282141faic0a4689b8f2a1196@mail.gmail.com> Well, I thought this was just in training films. Now I guess the info is available to everyone. So much for secrets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fESo6JweU20 Hey, how about we profile for bad people, not excess toothpaste? Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 22:02:10 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:02:10 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Flying Message-ID: <400985d71001041902j589c9568s5dce6d921402dba@mail.gmail.com> Interesting video - http://www.airportappraisals.com/qualifications/ To put things into perspective (when you get to part 3), my Bo has 225hp and weighs half as much. Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 22:07:26 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:07:26 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Flying In-Reply-To: <400985d71001041902j589c9568s5dce6d921402dba@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001041902j589c9568s5dce6d921402dba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001041907h3a33814pbe24071848bf4685@mail.gmail.com> Just to make it easy - Part 2 - http://www.airportappraisals.com/experience/ Part 3 - http://www.airportappraisals.com/ Part 4 - http://www.airportappraisals.com/newsletter-articles/ Brad On 1/4/10, Brad Haslett wrote: > Interesting video - > > http://www.airportappraisals.com/qualifications/ > > To put things into perspective (when you get to part 3), my Bo has > 225hp and weighs half as much. > > Brad > From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 22:33:28 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:33:28 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NPR In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001041423h16c5e750t9fdbfdbe9f8204c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001040949w6c735066r10b9c3413493ec16@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001041316v611f626av133c4f038af0a998@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001041423h16c5e750t9fdbfdbe9f8204c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001041933p3c376782r8b572e456604a63c@mail.gmail.com> Rik, Personally, I hope "they" continue down this path. I've been to two Tea Parties (yes, yes, we all are in on the joke now about tea baggers and what it means), one in Memphis on April 15, and the second in Washington, DC. The crowds were of all ages, but predominantly middle age, more blue collar or "middle class" than anything else, and not particularly partisan. One thing both crowds shared was this - THEY ARE PISSED OFF! Let NPR and the MSM have their fun. They are soon to be irrelevant. Brad On 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Brad, Herb, > > Yeah, I was out in the car today, so was listening to MPR. There were some > journalists having a debate about whether the govt should bail out the MSM > media outlets, or just let them fade away to bankruptcy and oblivion. There > was a great deal of discussion about who offered the most "real" news > coverage, (with the obvious expected liberal slant) but none about the real > problem. These businesses are not able to support themselves anymore. Then, > I almost choked when they started talking about non-profits vs profit making > companies. I'm thinking: C'mon people .... are you so foolish as to believe > that people who work for non-profits don't make money?? What do you suppose > they buy their groceries with?? What the hell do you think "profit" is??? Do > you folks honestly believe that it is somehow different to pay the owner of > MPR (for example) a quarter million dollars a year as a salary via a > non-profit corporation as opposed to him taking a quarter million dollar > profit home as the owner of a for-profit company?? The liberal perception > that non-profits don't "make" money is a perfect example of naive liberal > thinking. > > Anyway, my thinking was, if we want to guarantee the mediocre, slanted news > reporting that has been the norm from the MSM for the last decade or so, > then hell yeah, lets bail 'em out. Might as well let the govt run them too. > They're already in their pocket anyway. Look at the great job govt is doing > with GM and the banks. That should make the choices obvious..... no?? /sarc > > As to MPR (NPR): I have donated to them for quite a few years. However, > since this last election I am having my gag reflex exercised far too often > and I think they''re gonna have to find another fish. > > Rik > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: > >> Isn't it amazing that you and I, at the point of a gun, get to help pay >> for >> this; but the libs try to push the latest iteration of the "fairness >> doctrine" on commercial radio which supports itself? >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> This is a "line in the sand" they just crossed - >>> >>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120344047 >>> >>> CUT THEIR DAMN FUNDING! There is no pretending what they really are >>> anymore! >>> >>> Brad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. > From hparsons at parsonsys.com Tue Jan 5 02:19:19 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 01:19:19 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001041614u356dbb6u4441ae3ec8c069bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b42e7fb.5444f10a.337d.501a@mx.google.com> We have a cat, and I concur. We also have a cockatoo, a large loud bird. She has a piercing scream that will wake anyone in the house, and literally can be heard 2 blocks down the street. She's not at all afraid to use the scream when she wants peanuts, more food, or just some attention. She makes up for this drawback by being funny and interesting at times. I suspect she's a Democrat activist. -- Sent from my Palm Pre Rik Sandberg wrote: Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/6c37ed5f/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 08:25:01 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:25:01 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] very important demonstration about flying safety Message-ID: Brad and all see: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=079_1261862556&p=1 Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/6bddaca5/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 08:56:44 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:56:44 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NPR et al. Message-ID: <4E41BD466DF3442AA953EDB9D8DC7A03@YOURB88038198E> Brad said, "Let NPR and the MSM have their fun. They are soon to be irrelevant." This is a very dangerous assumption to make. Keep in mind that these very same people did not try to find out truth about Obama, or worse, never made the numbers to stop the Obama steam roller. These people, and us just may be too few in number to have a real impact when confronted with the Obama machine. The machine (just like the tanks in Tinamin Square) needs to be confronted. I have been involved in both parties. The current national democrat party is not the same Democrat party of 30 years ago. Just before the last election I attended a public forum of Democrats running for office. It turned my stomach. And these are the same people that some want us to find 'Common Ground' or come together with. Brad, I can stomach the Anti Abortion group because they are otherwise civil and otherwise share traditional values of work ethic, etc. However, these new Democrats were clearly racially outrageous, and for the most part people you would not let in your living room. The politicians are evil,coercive and overtly anti American. This is my opinion from being on the scene. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/e282ae8d/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 12:00:42 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:00:42 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Very Heavy Reading - for Michael Meltzer Message-ID: <4ABE5218B58F4C40AD173662EC660C5B@YOURB88038198E> While most post herein are political, there is the subject of Global Warming and scientific proof. Here is a reading with which to analyise the validity of the scientific proof offered: http://www.swemorph.com/pdf/anaeng-r.pdf Michael Meltzer might try this article out? But then he probably knows it, if any one on this forum does, right? How many of the MSM have used this inevaluating their informantion? Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/8d059f7e/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 12:07:25 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:07:25 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Some hope for a change Message-ID: <6634e19e1001050907g3bcad96nb84afbf62c5cdef8@mail.gmail.com> Good morning All, Bill Whittle... why can't we have a guy like this running the country. http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=video&video-id=2907 Rik -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/72fbc392/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 14:12:37 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:12:37 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Some hope for a change - a detailed reply Message-ID: Rik, Slick presentation. But no instuctions on how to combat the march to Marxism. Go back and answer questions posed herein: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2010-January/002803.html http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002438.html http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002591.html http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002484.html http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002511.html http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002521.html http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002521.html Rik, so you see, "some hope for change"? I ask where? We who ask are too few in numbers, too old for violence, to fair to the under dogs, unlike others, I see little momentum of consequence. Where are the petitions of recall? Where are the daily demonstrations? I see sheeple drifting further into the that black hole. I recently reread Ronald Reagans "The Red Hen": ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Red Hen A modern day little red hen may not sound like or appear to be a quotable authority on economics but then some authorities aren't worth quoting. About a year ago I imposed a little poetry on you. It was called "The Incredible Bread Machine" and made a lot of sense with reference to matters economic. You didn't object too much so having gotten away with it once I'm going to try again. This is a little treatise on basic economics called "The Modern little Red Hen." Once upon a time there was a little red hen who scratched about the barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat. She called her neighbors and said 'If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?' "Not I, " said the cow. "Not I," said the duck. "Not I," said the pig. "Not I," said the goose. "Then I will," said the little red hen. And she did. The wheat grew tall and ripened into golden grain. "Who will help me reap my wheat?" asked the little red hen. "Not I," said the duck. "Out of my classification," said the pig. "I'd lose my seniority," said the cow. "I'd lose my unemployment compensation," said the goose. "Then I will," said the little red hen, and she did. At last the time came to bake the bread. "Who will help me bake bread?" asked the little red hen. "That would be overtime for me," said the cow. "I'd lose my welfare benefits," said the duck. "I'm a dropout and never learned how," said the pig. "If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination," said the goose. "Then I will," said the little red hen. She baked five loaves and held them up for the neighbors to see. They all wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, "No, I can eat the five loaves myself." "Excess profits," cried the cow. "Capitalist leech," screamed the duck. "I demand equal rights," yelled the goose. And the pig just grunted. And they painted "unfair" picket signs and marched round and around the little red hen shouting obscenities. When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, "You must not be greedy." "But I earned the bread," said the little red hen. "Exactly," said the agent. "That's the wonderful free enterprise system. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations productive workers must divide their products with the idle." And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, "I am grateful, I am grateful." But her neighbors wondered why she never again baked any more bread. >From Ronald Reagan... Reagan In His Own Voice (Audio book/download) ^ | November 1976 | Ronald Reagan _________________________________________________________________________________________ But even here you do not find what we need to do, how we should proceed, how to we recover? Who knows the nuts and bolts of these questions? Speak up! Post an email here! A summary statement of the problem we already knows helps a little, but it is not enought... Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/b28c7ce3/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 14:29:03 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:29:03 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Some hope for a change - a detailed reply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6634e19e1001051129u297fe43dj77780df6b981e8b0@mail.gmail.com> Ed, So ..... you give up??? Can't think of a quicker way to lose. Maybe you could find some local tea-partiers to associate with. You might come to realize there are a lot more of us than you think. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Rik, > > Slick presentation. But no instuctions on how to combat the march to > Marxism. Go back and answer questions posed herein: > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2010-January/002803.html > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002438.html > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002591.html > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002484.html > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002511.html > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002521.html > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2009-December/002521.html > > > Rik, so you see, "some hope for change"? I ask where? We who ask are too > few in numbers, too old for violence, to fair to the under dogs, unlike > others, I see little momentum of consequence. Where are the petitions of > recall? Where are the daily demonstrations? > > I see sheeple drifting further into the that black hole. > > I recently reread Ronald Reagans "The Red Hen": > > ____________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Red Hen > > > > A modern day little red hen may not sound like or appear to be a quotable > authority on economics but then some authorities aren't worth quoting. > > > > About a year ago I imposed a little poetry on you. It was called "The > Incredible Bread Machine" and made a lot of sense with reference to matters > economic. You didn't object too much so having gotten away with it once I'm > going to try again. This is a little treatise on basic economics called "The > Modern little Red Hen." > > > > Once upon a time there was a little red hen who scratched about the > barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat. She called her neighbors > and said 'If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help > me plant it?' > > > > "Not I, " said the cow. > > > > "Not I," said the duck. > > > > "Not I," said the pig. > > > > "Not I," said the goose. > > > > "Then I will," said the little red hen. And she did. The wheat grew tall > and ripened into golden grain. "Who will help me reap my wheat?" asked the > little red hen. > > > > "Not I," said the duck. > > > > "Out of my classification," said the pig. > > > > "I'd lose my seniority," said the cow. > > > > "I'd lose my unemployment compensation," said the goose. > > > > "Then I will," said the little red hen, and she did. > > > > At last the time came to bake the bread. "Who will help me bake bread?" > asked the little red hen. > > > > "That would be overtime for me," said the cow. > > > > "I'd lose my welfare benefits," said the duck. > > > > "I'm a dropout and never learned how," said the pig. > > > > "If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination," said the goose. > > > > "Then I will," said the little red hen. > > > > She baked five loaves and held them up for the neighbors to see. > > > > They all wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen > said, "No, I can eat the five loaves myself." > > > > "Excess profits," cried the cow. > > > > "Capitalist leech," screamed the duck. > > > > "I demand equal rights," yelled the goose. > > > > And the pig just grunted. > > > > And they painted "unfair" picket signs and marched round and around the > little red hen shouting obscenities. > > > > When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, "You must > not be greedy." > > > > "But I earned the bread," said the little red hen. > > > > "Exactly," said the agent. "That's the wonderful free enterprise system. > Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern > government regulations productive workers must divide their products with > the idle." > > > > And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled > and clucked, "I am grateful, I am grateful." But her neighbors wondered why > she never again baked any more bread. > > > > From Ronald Reagan... Reagan In His Own Voice (Audio book/download) ^ | > November 1976 | Ronald Reagan > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > But even here you do not find what we need to do, how we should proceed, > how to we recover? > > > > Who knows the nuts and bolts of these questions? Speak up! Post an email > here! A summary statement of the problem we already knows helps a little, > but it is not enought... > > > > Ed K > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/35d40b5e/attachment-0001.html From bill at effros.com Tue Jan 5 16:13:35 2010 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:13:35 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Giant Tuna Fetches $177, 000 at Japanese Auction Message-ID: <4B43AB7F.4020008@effros.com> Brad, The auctions happen in the early morning before the subway starts running, but good for pilots on Memphis time. The same fish may be bought and sold a dozen times before all the hand cut parts leave the fish market. Whole tuna is first cut by a guy with a samurai-like sword--it looks like the old John Belushi joke. Most of the Tuna comes in frozen solid, and there are tuna lying around all over the place. The fish market is an incredible bee-hive of activity, mostly not as civilized as depicted in the NYT photo. B. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/05/business/AP-AS-Japan-Giant-Tuna-Sold.html?_r=1&hp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/d20929b4/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 17:03:31 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:03:31 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Giant Tuna Fetches $177, 000 at Japanese Auction In-Reply-To: <4B43AB7F.4020008@effros.com> References: <4B43AB7F.4020008@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001051403t4a66483ejebe75a51c33aaaf3@mail.gmail.com> Bill, Saw that! I may cut my time short in Japan on this trip and re-position early to Shanghai on company equipment because (1) I want to see how another crew deals with goats, and (2) Slim's friend who plays in a jazz club in Shanghai is a hoot! Full report to follow. Gone to bed before flying. Brad On 1/5/10, Bill Effros wrote: > Brad, > > The auctions happen in the early morning before the subway starts > running, but good for pilots on Memphis time. The same fish may be > bought and sold a dozen times before all the hand cut parts leave the > fish market. Whole tuna is first cut by a guy with a samurai-like > sword--it looks like the old John Belushi joke. Most of the Tuna comes > in frozen solid, and there are tuna lying around all over the place. > The fish market is an incredible bee-hive of activity, mostly not as > civilized as depicted in the NYT photo. > > B. > > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/05/business/AP-AS-Japan-Giant-Tuna-Sold.html?_r=1&hp > From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Tue Jan 5 17:30:44 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:30:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <555708.69689.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute.? How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, ? .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol ? I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round.? It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock.? The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. ? According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. ? You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 ? Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike ? From: elle??Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM ? What does? 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/a0d9b8e5/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 18:37:45 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:37:45 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <555708.69689.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <555708.69689.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001051537s45fc0e34o77a7050fed7ff2d@mail.gmail.com> Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: > Mike & Rik, > > thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. > > How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the > terms in the right order...) > > elle > > > > --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner * wrote: > > > From: Michael D. Weisner > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > > ? > Elle, > > .45 = caliber > ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol > > I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber > round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim need > not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second > time. > > According to Wikipedia: > > The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, > one that combines very good accuracy and stopping powerfor use against human targets. > [9] The > cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as > moderate recoil . > > It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in > certain circles, is moot. > > You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > > Glad to help out - Happy New Year, > Mike > > > *From:* elle Monday, January > 04, 2010 7:42 PM > > > What does > > 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? > > Is this a guy thing??? > > elle > > --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > >* wrote: > > > From: Rik Sandberg > > > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" < > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > > Good evening All, > > Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a > democrat" > > What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! > > ____________________________ > > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: > > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She > can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. > > Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year > for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For > this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice > neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not > required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. > > She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these > accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has > absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others > who go out and earn a living every day. > > I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in > the head, *Holy crap! My cat is a democrat!* > > (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an > email) > > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/a02155b7/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 19:21:37 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:21:37 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Ed, so you give up? Message-ID: <661B6F12086047689EB7D5B4DA1A49FD@YOURB88038198E> Rik, I have not given up by any means. I work for candidates in elections. I do not need tea party people to educate me, although I meet several at a Republican training class back in October. It was a class designed to show people how to get involved in political campaigns. They were good people, but they were for most part, rookies. I taught a better course years ago. I would have been embarrassed with that class, but the county Republican chairman was happy to get a dozen more people involved in the nuts and bolts of electing people to political office. At least he is trying to get people involved. I applaud him for his efforts. The course that I taught was non-partisan, just teaching people what to do get people elected or to run for office. My handout was a reprint of how to do it by the Rhode Island Democrat Party. Understand same methods apply to all political parties in USA. The problem is how to get people involved. Are you involved locally? No, I have not given up. However, I recognized that I am a minority. I believe in freedom. I work for freedom. Apparently the American educational system consideres that evil. I believe that if you run for office you are obligated to walk the high road. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/7a118af5/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 19:23:47 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:23:47 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] lost Message-ID: <1664D88D8A82482090D658FD175F454D@YOURB88038198E> This is making the rounds again: A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She lowered her altitude and spotted a man in a boat below. She shouted to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am." The man consulted his portable GPS and replied, "You're in a hot air balloon, approximately 30 feet above a ground elevation of 2,346 feet above sea level. You are at 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes north latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude. "She rolled her eyes and said, "You must be a Republican." "I am," replied the man. "How did you know?" "Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct. But I have no idea what to do with your information, and I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help to me." The man smiled and responded, "You must be an Obama Democrat" "I am," replied the balloonist. "How did you know?" "Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are going. You've risen to where you are, due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. You're in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but somehow, now it's my fault." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/7094212f/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 19:28:55 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:28:55 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Al Gore where is he Message-ID: <73AAF6CC52ED41FC8E2D3AD6D9A115E5@YOURB88038198E> I received an email from a cousin who has a condo in Florida: ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Well,I would like to tell you that we are basking in the sun & warmth of Fl., that's what I would like to say, unfortunatly, its a bit cool here. It was in the 50's when we went out today but about noon the clouds came over & the wind came up. It was still in the 50's but with the low humidity it felt pretty cool, especially for Fl. It still beats where you are! but its very unusual for Fl. Where the hell is Al Gore & his global warming? I think that his hockey stick graph was upside down. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/65bf7007/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 5 20:29:09 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:29:09 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Rik said, " Message-ID: Rik said, "You might come to realize there are a lot more of us than you think." I would be happy if you are right. However, the numbers of new people active in politics is still not significant. The biggest problem is good people willing to put up with the shit that you have to when running for public office. I have thought about it, but I two major issues. I am not good speaking on my feet. I have to think too long. And as demostrated on the Rhodes list and here, I have sharp and bitting comments. I say it as I see it. And those who want a coming together or meeting of the minds get too upset. The are obsessed with compromise even when that means taking away somebody's freedoms. They have no problem with using government taking tax monies and using that money to just give away to someone who did not plain and simple earn it. But I can be the guy who left the flyer on your front door. I can put up and take down those campaign signs. Rik, I have seen talk on the internet. I have not seen that translate to what it takes to actually win an election. Prove me wrong. Ed K Addendum: Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel "Pick up your shovel, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the promised land." `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Nearly 75 years ago, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a Camel, this is the promised land." `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Now, Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels, and mortgaged the promised land!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/d3803d4a/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 22:12:24 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 21:12:24 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Rik said, " In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6634e19e1001051912v16e1e29fp3c128b8b3bf68e20@mail.gmail.com> Ed, To see what is possible all one needs do is look at the NJ, VA gubernatorial elections. Keep in mind NJ tends to be hugely democrat leaning. Conservatives would have taken NY 23rd house seat too if the RNC hadn't got their head stuck in their ass. The idea behind things like Whittle writes are to keep us fired up and working toward our goal. Falling into despair is the very worst thing we can allow to happen. Once that happens we become just more of the sheeple. So, you may not feel comfortable running for office. I can't do it either. Don't worry about that. Just help somebody who does as best you can. We'll get through this. The democrats are standing on their diks so hard that there is no way our majority of conservative voters will not throw a good share of these bums out on their asses 10 months from now. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Rik said, "You might come to realize there are a lot more of us than you > think." > > I would be happy if you are right. However, the numbers of new people > active in politics is still not significant. > > The biggest problem is good people willing to put up with the shit that you > have to when running for public office. > > I have thought about it, but I two major issues. I am not good speaking on > my feet. I have to think too long. And as demostrated on the Rhodes list > and here, I have sharp and bitting comments. I say it as I see it. > > And those who want a coming together or meeting of the minds get too > upset. The are obsessed with compromise even when that means taking away > somebody's freedoms. They have no problem with using government taking tax > monies and using that money to just give away to someone who did not plain > and simple earn it. > > But I can be the guy who left the flyer on your front door. I can put up > and take down those campaign signs. > > Rik, I have seen talk on the internet. I have not seen that translate to > what it takes to actually win an election. Prove me wrong. > > Ed K > Addendum: > > Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel > > "Pick up your shovel, mount your asses and camels, and I will > > lead you to the promised land." > > `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` > > Nearly 75 years ago, Roosevelt said, > > ?Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a Camel, > > this is the promised land." > > `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` > > Now, Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the > > price of Camels, and mortgaged the promised land!! > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100105/8ad2fd1e/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Wed Jan 6 07:25:53 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 07:25:53 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Another reply to Rik ... and others too Message-ID: Rik said, "Conservatives would have taken NY 23rd house seat too if the RNC hadn't got their head stuck in their ass." Assumption and not proven and demonstrated. Rik said, "there is no way our majority of conservative voters will not throw a good share of these bums out on their asses 10 months from now." Another assumption. So you are taking ownership? Now have you read both of Thomas Sowells latest articles??? http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell010510.php3 http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell010610.php3 How come he can say things so clearly? I regret he is older than Stan. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/3fea8a53/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 10:29:34 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:29:34 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Another reply to Rik ... and others too In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6634e19e1001060729pace4697m3529e89b8d0f8db5@mail.gmail.com> Ed, I read ALL of Sowell's articles. I cannot think of a writer with whom I agree more often, or more completely. Ownership??? What the hell are you talking about?? I said *our* because that is the group I fit into (sorta). If it would make you happier I could have as easily said *the*. If you don't believe NY23 would have come out different had the RNC backed the actual conservative candidate from the get go, then you just weren't paying attention. Look Ed, this is real simple. If we believe we can't overcome this problem ..... then we can't. Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Rik said, "Conservatives would have taken NY 23rd house seat too if the > RNC hadn't got their head stuck in their ass." > Assumption and not proven and demonstrated. > > Rik said, "there is no way *our* majority of conservative voters will not > throw a good share of these bums out on their asses 10 months from now." > Another assumption. So you are taking ownership? > > Now have you read both of Thomas Sowells latest articles??? > > http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell010510.php3 > > http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell010610.php3 > > How come he can say things so clearly? I regret he is older than Stan. > > Ed K > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/0b7f6979/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 11:13:35 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:13:35 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Another reply to Rik ... and others too In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001060729pace4697m3529e89b8d0f8db5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6634e19e1001060729pace4697m3529e89b8d0f8db5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001060813u603d08bbu87669c247b573cc2@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Speaking of Sowell. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDRkNjQxMDMwNGM3MjlkZGY4YTRlODdmOTU4NTZkZWM= Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Ed, > > I read ALL of Sowell's articles. I cannot think of a writer with whom I > agree more often, or more completely. > > Ownership??? What the hell are you talking about?? I said *our* because > that is the group I fit into (sorta). If it would make you happier I could > have as easily said *the*. > > If you don't believe NY23 would have come out different had the RNC backed > the actual conservative candidate from the get go, then you just weren't > paying attention. > > Look Ed, this is real simple. If we believe we can't overcome this problem > ..... then we can't. > > Rik > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > >> Rik said, "Conservatives would have taken NY 23rd house seat too if the >> RNC hadn't got their head stuck in their ass." >> Assumption and not proven and demonstrated. >> >> Rik said, "there is no way *our* majority of conservative voters will not >> throw a good share of these bums out on their asses 10 months from now." >> Another assumption. So you are taking ownership? >> >> Now have you read both of Thomas Sowells latest articles??? >> >> http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell010510.php3 >> >> http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell010610.php3 >> >> How come he can say things so clearly? I regret he is older than Stan. >> >> Ed K >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/c554fa53/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Wed Jan 6 14:17:14 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:17:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001051537s45fc0e34o77a7050fed7ff2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <260332.75576.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun ?that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time yet.... elle --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute.? How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, ? .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol ? I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round.? It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock.? The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. ? According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. ? You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 ? Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike ? From: elle??Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM ? What does? 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/20c2c482/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 15:27:45 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:27:45 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <260332.75576.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <6634e19e1001051537s45fc0e34o77a7050fed7ff2d@mail.gmail.com> <260332.75576.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001061227r378e093esa1f927f8464b000e@mail.gmail.com> Elle, Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real thing. Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone > racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... > > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun > that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is > time yet.... > > elle > > > --- On *Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg * wrote: > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > > > Elle, > > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were > used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which > is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were > semi-auto. > > In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if > you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to > keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. > > Rik > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle > > wrote: > >> Mike & Rik, >> >> thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. >> >> How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the >> terms in the right order...) >> >> elle >> >> >> >> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Michael D. Weisner >> > >> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >> >> ? >> Elle, >> >> .45 = caliber >> ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol >> >> I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 >> caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's >> aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire >> a second time. >> >> According to Wikipedia: >> >> The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, >> one that combines very good accuracy and stopping powerfor use against human targets. >> [9] The >> cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as >> moderate recoil . >> >> It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in >> certain circles, is moot. >> >> You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >> >> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >> >> Glad to help out - Happy New Year, >> Mike >> >> >> *From:* elle Monday, >> January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >> >> >> What does >> >> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? >> >> Is this a guy thing??? >> >> elle >> >> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Rik Sandberg >> > >> Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" < >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >> >> Good evening All, >> >> Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be >> a democrat" >> >> What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! >> >> ____________________________ >> >> On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: >> >> My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She >> can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. >> >> Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year >> for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For >> this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice >> neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not >> required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. >> >> She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these >> accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has >> absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others >> who go out and earn a living every day. >> >> I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in >> the head, *Holy crap! My cat is a democrat!* >> >> (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an >> email) >> >> >> -- >> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/5ad7d6a7/attachment-0001.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Wed Jan 6 16:51:10 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:51:10 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <260332.75576.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <6634e19e1001051537s45fc0e34o77a7050fed7ff2d@mail.gmail.com> <260332.75576.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001061351o4b88a67cw7d63a98313e2d308@mail.gmail.com> Believe it or not, a .410 shotgun would probably do the trick for you as well. Very little kick, they make the same noises as the big ones, though they don't kill as easily, they'd do enough damage to make a home intruder decide to look elsewhere. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone > racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... > > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun > that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is > time yet.... > > elle > > > --- On *Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg * wrote: > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > > > Elle, > > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were > used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which > is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were > semi-auto. > > In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if > you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to > keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. > > Rik > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle > > wrote: > >> Mike & Rik, >> >> thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. >> >> How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the >> terms in the right order...) >> >> elle >> >> >> >> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Michael D. Weisner >> > >> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >> >> ? >> Elle, >> >> .45 = caliber >> ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol >> >> I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 >> caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's >> aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire >> a second time. >> >> According to Wikipedia: >> >> The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, >> one that combines very good accuracy and stopping powerfor use against human targets. >> [9] The >> cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as >> moderate recoil . >> >> It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in >> certain circles, is moot. >> >> You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >> >> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >> >> Glad to help out - Happy New Year, >> Mike >> >> >> *From:* elle Monday, >> January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >> >> >> What does >> >> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? >> >> Is this a guy thing??? >> >> elle >> >> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Rik Sandberg >> > >> Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" < >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >> >> Good evening All, >> >> Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be >> a democrat" >> >> What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! >> >> ____________________________ >> >> On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: >> >> My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She >> can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. >> >> Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year >> for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For >> this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice >> neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not >> required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. >> >> She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these >> accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has >> absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others >> who go out and earn a living every day. >> >> I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in >> the head, *Holy crap! My cat is a democrat!* >> >> (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an >> email) >> >> >> -- >> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/bd4b321c/attachment.html From elginalexander at erols.com Wed Jan 6 17:44:12 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (Elgin Alexander) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:44:12 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Proactive vs Reactive Security Measures Message-ID: <86AD874714254C389920DEB9519DFEE0@Xanthus> The following is with compliments to Mike. It has been noted for some time that crooks would make great cops because they possess the "mind set" of a criminal and are, thus, best suited to thwart or solve a crime. This adage has been taken to heart by the various virus protection agencies who have hired hackers to create firewalls and other security programs. In essence, they have recognized that a heuristic solution determination, one that is proactive, is far superior to a reactive one that is driven by methodologies. They did not fall into the trap of "fighting the current war" using the methodologies and "rules" developed from the last one since they fully understood that, just as the enemy changes, so too does the "blueprint" of the war in which that enemy is engaged. Too bad our Homeland Security hasn't followed suit. If they were students of analytic problem solving rather than politics, they would begin by listing all the possible instruments and means of terrorism and then proceed to prioritize them in terms of realistic possibilities. Having done that, they would then, at least, be able to form a viable "battle plan" rather than the cursory ones they currently implement, which obviously don't seem to work. (Thank God that ordinary Americans have "taken up the slack" and followed the example set by the "let's roll" passengers of Flight 93.) Elgin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/80962a63/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Wed Jan 6 22:30:01 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:30:01 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] See, There MUST Be a God Message-ID: <5f889a891001061930h3f321537we41baa011b775c62@mail.gmail.com> Anyone that reads an article like this, and still believe's there's no God, or that He isn't up There having a good laugh is just without an open mind. http://www.star-telegram.com/northeast/story/1873241.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100106/e8cecd5d/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 7 07:04:53 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:04:53 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Gun Discussion Message-ID: <9F5A2111C5B54A0287C6351989A4B9EF@YOURB88038198E> Now I have some guns, also. I inherited a model 97 Winchester 12 ga. I have used it hunting and had black and blue shoulder to prove it works. I have a 20 ga. that I would recommend over using a 12 ga. But then I also have and I am licensed to carry a 357 revolver. That was a relatively recent addition to my usage for hiking after I walked up on several feral hogs. Those boys were huge. A 22 would just bounce off. And I have seen the hogs that look like the Arkansas razorbacks. We have those too. This of course does not cover the coyotes and the extinct cats that I have seen. There is a reason why Charlotte choose the panther as it mascot. They are not extinct and some are black. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/5d5652f6/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 10:14:34 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:14:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Anyone heard this Message-ID: <5752.88618.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> guys, I rec'd this in a email (originally dated Jan. 5) this AM...but it seems that I'd heard this earlier...anyone have a clue? elle ? ?I don't know anything about this, but guess we will find out Sunday!?This Sunday at?8:00pm?central?9:00pm?eastern.?FOX News Channel?Maybe this is why the White House has been discounting FOX.?Sounds like this could be History in the making - someone may go down - either Obama or Fox News.?It may be that Fox has been holding this information back due to the sensitivity of it and out of courtesy.? But, Obama has taken on Fox and it appears they are ready to spill the ugly beans of truth about the background of this individual who has had an extremely radical past.?This Sunday Fox news, is going to air a very important documentary about Barack Obama, Sunday night at 9 P M Eastern.?The report will go back to Obama's earlier days, showing even then his close ties to radical Marxist professors, friends, spiritual advisers, etc.? It will also reveal details about his ties to Rev. Wright for 20+ years, i.e., how he was participating with this man, and not for the reasons he states!?The report has uncovered more of Obama's radical past and we will see things that no one in the media is willing to put out there.? It will be a segment to remember.?Mark your calendar and pass this on to everyone you know:? Sunday night,?8 PM CT;?9 PM ET.? Democrat or Republican, this report will open your eyes to how YOUR country is being sold down the road to Totalitarian Socialism.? If you care about the direction of our country, pass this notice on to everyone you know.?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/abad3624/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 10:19:28 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:19:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001061227r378e093esa1f927f8464b000e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95693.29119.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> rik, Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away from here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot country boys are getting restless.? elle --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM Elle, Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real thing. Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun ?that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time yet.... elle --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute.? How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, ? .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol ? I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round.? It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock.? The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. ? According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. ? You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 ? Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike ? From: elle??Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM ? What does? 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/c3d6869b/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 10:23:12 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:23:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001061351o4b88a67cw7d63a98313e2d308@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <660285.48596.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> OK..I now see that I need a lesson here....will have it clear in about an hour or so .....I sense a major gap (mine!) in knowledge here..... thanks, Herb. elle --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Herb Parsons wrote: From: Herb Parsons Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 4:51 PM Believe it or not, a .410 shotgun would probably do the trick for you as well. Very little kick, they make the same noises as the big ones, though they don't kill as easily, they'd do enough damage to make a home intruder decide to look elsewhere. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun ?that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time yet.... elle --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute.? How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, ? .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol ? I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round.? It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock.? The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. ? According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. ? You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 ? Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike ? From: elle??Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM ? What does? 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/ce03bb66/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 10:30:39 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:30:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Proactive vs Reactive Security Measures In-Reply-To: <86AD874714254C389920DEB9519DFEE0@Xanthus> Message-ID: <393246.24754.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Yes, but the other 'ordinary' Americans (read: those who blindly follow Obamaniac) feel all warm & fuzzy because he says the same things over & over until he has numbed their number brains. They think it more important to be politically correct so they don't offend someone who wants to take us out than to take him out first..Have you noticed how the Muslim groups in the US jump right out now & condemn the TSA?? God Bless Jim DeMint for standing up against this Southard guy. It IS so simple to do this ...How many incidents had El Al had???? These Dems think that saying makes it true: ?"The system worked.." ? "We're going to work together..." ? ..put all the negotiations on C-Span..." Is anyone but us getting it NOW??? elle --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Elgin Alexander wrote: From: Elgin Alexander Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Proactive vs Reactive Security Measures To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 5:44 PM The following is with compliments to Mike.? It has been noted for some time that crooks would make great cops because they possess the ?mind set? of a criminal and are, thus, best suited to thwart or solve a crime.? This adage has been taken to heart by the various virus protection agencies who have hired hackers to create firewalls and other security programs.? In essence, they have recognized that a heuristic solution determination, one that is proactive, is far superior to a reactive one that is driven by methodologies.? They did not fall into the trap of ?fighting the current war? using the methodologies and ?rules? developed from the last one since they fully understood that, just as the enemy changes, so too does the ?blueprint? of the war in which that enemy is engaged. ?Too bad our Homeland Security hasn?t followed suit.? If they were students of analytic problem solving rather than politics, they would begin by listing all the possible instruments and means of terrorism and then proceed to prioritize them in terms of realistic possibilities.? Having done that, they would then, at least, be able to form a viable ?battle plan? rather than the cursory ones they currently implement, which obviously don?t seem to work.? (Thank God that ordinary Americans have ?taken up the slack? and followed the example set by the ?let's roll? passengers of Flight 93.) ? Elgin -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/f7c5d5aa/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 10:51:39 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:51:39 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Anyone heard this In-Reply-To: <5752.88618.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <5752.88618.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001070751y246f58c4w6c9135674a4b0b76@mail.gmail.com> Elle, Don't have a clue is there's any truth to this and I won't be able to watch it even if there is, much as I'd like to. But it is sure about time somebody airs out this guys dirty laundry. I'll have to pop up some popcorn, there's bound to be a real nice fireworks show after. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:14 AM, elle wrote: > guys, > > I rec'd this in a email (originally dated Jan. 5) this AM...but it seems > that I'd heard this earlier...anyone have a clue? > > elle > > > > > > > > > I don't know anything about > this, but guess we will find out Sunday! > > > > *This Sunday at** 8:00pm central * > > *9:00pm eastern.* *FOX News Channel* > > > > *Maybe this is why the White House has** > been discounting FOX.* > > > > *Sounds like this could be History in** > the making - someone may go down - either Obama or Fox News.* > > > > *It may be that Fox has been holding** > this information back due to the sensitivity of it and out of > courtesy. But, Obama has taken on Fox and it appears they are ready > to spill the ugly beans of truth about the background of this individual > who has had an extremely radical past.* > > > > *This Sunday Fox news, is going to air a** > very important documentary about Barack Obama, Sunday night at 9 P M > Eastern.* > > > > *The report will go back to Obama's** > earlier days, showing even then his close ties to radical Marxist > professors, friends, spiritual advisers, etc. It will also reveal > details about his ties to Rev. Wright for 20+ years, i.e., how he was > participating with this man, and not for the reasons he states!* > > > > *The report has uncovered more of** > Obama's radical past and we will see things that no one in the media is > willing to put out there. It will be a segment to remember.* > > > > *Mark your calendar and pass this on to** > everyone you know: Sunday night, 8 > PM CT; 9 > PM ET. Democrat or Republican, this report will open your eyes to > how YOUR country is being sold down the road to Totalitarian > Socialism. If you care about the direction of our country, pass > this notice on to everyone you know.* > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/f9fb24c1/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 10:54:21 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:54:21 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <95693.29119.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <6634e19e1001061227r378e093esa1f927f8464b000e@mail.gmail.com> <95693.29119.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001070754sb659d07hf4670dda17be9577@mail.gmail.com> Elle, Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might consider a private, unrecorded purchase. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle wrote: > rik, > > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, I > believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away from > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot country > boys are getting restless. > > elle > > > --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg * wrote: > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > > > Elle, > > Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of > a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be > making the noise with the real thing. > > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with > an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). > > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't > call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > > This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a > school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. > > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > > Rik > > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > > wrote: > >> Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone >> racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... >> >> Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun >> that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >> time yet.... >> >> elle >> >> >> --- On *Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Rik Sandberg >> > >> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >> >> >> Elle, >> >> Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These >> were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >> Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which >> is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were >> semi-auto. >> >> In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention >> if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough >> to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. >> >> Rik >> >> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle >> > wrote: >> >>> Mike & Rik, >>> >>> thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. >>> >>> How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the >>> terms in the right order...) >>> >>> elle >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner >>> >* wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Michael D. Weisner >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >>> >>> ? >>> Elle, >>> >>> .45 = caliber >>> ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol >>> >>> I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 >>> caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's >>> aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire >>> a second time. >>> >>> According to Wikipedia: >>> >>> The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, >>> one that combines very good accuracy and stopping powerfor use against human targets. >>> [9] The >>> cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as >>> moderate recoil . >>> >>> It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in >>> certain circles, is moot. >>> >>> You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >>> >>> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >>> >>> Glad to help out - Happy New Year, >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> *From:* elle Monday, >>> January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >>> >>> >>> What does >>> >>> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? >>> >>> Is this a guy thing??? >>> >>> elle >>> >>> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >>> >* wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" < >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >>> >>> Good evening All, >>> >>> Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be >>> a democrat" >>> >>> What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! >>> >>> ____________________________ >>> >>> On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: >>> >>> My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. >>> She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. >>> >>> Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year >>> for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For >>> this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice >>> neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not >>> required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. >>> >>> She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these >>> accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has >>> absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others >>> who go out and earn a living every day. >>> >>> I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick >>> in the head, *Holy crap! My cat is a democrat!* >>> >>> (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an >>> email) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >> Churchill >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/d3767a0e/attachment-0001.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Jan 7 11:35:42 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:35:42 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Anyone heard this References: <5752.88618.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 the FOX schedule is as follows (http://www.fox.com/schedule.htm?src=menu_item_schedule#week:2010-01-10): THE SIMPSONS 20TH ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL - IN 3-D! ON ICE! - ALL-NEW 1-HOUR FOX SPECIAL"The Simpsons 20th Anniversary Special - in 3-D! On Ice!" 8:30 pm - 9:30 pm Eastern time zone TV-PG - The Simpsons celebrate 20 years on the air with a 1-hour special tonight How revealing can it be? For more info, check: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/foxnews.asp Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: elle To: sw Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:14 AM Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Anyone heard this guys, I rec'd this in a email (originally dated Jan. 5) this AM...but it seems that I'd heard this earlier...anyone have a clue? elle I don't know anything about this, but guess we will find out Sunday! This Sunday at 8:00pm central 9:00pm eastern. FOX News Channel Maybe this is why the White House has been discounting FOX. Sounds like this could be History in the making - someone may go down - either Obama or Fox News. It may be that Fox has been holding this information back due to the sensitivity of it and out of courtesy. But, Obama has taken on Fox and it appears they are ready to spill the ugly beans of truth about the background of this individual who has had an extremely radical past. This Sunday Fox news, is going to air a very important documentary about Barack Obama, Sunday night at 9 P M Eastern. The report will go back to Obama's earlier days, showing even then his close ties to radical Marxist professors, friends, spiritual advisers, etc. It will also reveal details about his ties to Rev. Wright for 20+ years, i.e., how he was participating with this man, and not for the reasons he states! The report has uncovered more of Obama's radical past and we will see things that no one in the media is willing to put out there. It will be a segment to remember. Mark your calendar and pass this on to everyone you know: Sunday night, 8 PM CT; 9 PM ET. Democrat or Republican, this report will open your eyes to how YOUR country is being sold down the road to Totalitarian Socialism. If you care about the direction of our country, pass this notice on to everyone you know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/95436806/attachment-0001.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Jan 7 11:36:44 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:36:44 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat References: <6634e19e1001061227r378e093esa1f927f8464b000e@mail.gmail.com><95693.29119.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6634e19e1001070754sb659d07hf4670dda17be9577@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> Elle, Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google indexed) forum, how private can it be?? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Sandberg To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat Elle, Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might consider a private, unrecorded purchase. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle wrote: rik, Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away from here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot country boys are getting restless. elle --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM Elle, Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real thing. Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time yet.... elle --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike From: elle Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM What does 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/09b57530/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 12:25:09 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:25:09 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> References: <6634e19e1001061227r378e093esa1f927f8464b000e@mail.gmail.com> <95693.29119.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6634e19e1001070754sb659d07hf4670dda17be9577@mail.gmail.com> <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001070925i42f0dbe6yadbc0896b6e8f761@mail.gmail.com> Mike, To have discussed something is one thing. To have actually done it, another. Were I considering such a thing, minimal discussion would certainly be a goal. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Elle, > > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google indexed) forum, how > private can it be?? > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rik Sandberg > *To:* SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > > Elle, > > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might consider a private, > unrecorded purchase. > > Rik > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle wrote: > >> rik, >> >> Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, I >> believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away from >> here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >> >> thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the >> possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot country >> boys are getting restless. >> >> elle >> >> >> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg * wrote: >> >> >> From: Rik Sandberg >> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >> >> >> Elle, >> >> Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of >> a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be >> making the noise with the real thing. >> >> Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with >> an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). >> >> For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't >> call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >> >> This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a >> school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. >> >> http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >> >> Rik >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle >> > wrote: >> >>> Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of >>> someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... >>> >>> Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun >>> that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >>> time yet.... >>> >>> elle >>> >>> >>> --- On *Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >>> >* wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >>> >>> >>> Elle, >>> >>> Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These >>> were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >>> Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which >>> is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were >>> semi-auto. >>> >>> In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention >>> if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough >>> to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Mike & Rik, >>>> >>>> thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. >>>> >>>> How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the >>>> terms in the right order...) >>>> >>>> elle >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner >>>> >* wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner >>>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>>> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Elle, >>>> >>>> .45 = caliber >>>> ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol >>>> >>>> I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 >>>> caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's >>>> aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire >>>> a second time. >>>> >>>> According to Wikipedia: >>>> >>>> The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol >>>> cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping powerfor use against human targets. >>>> [9] The >>>> cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as >>>> moderate recoil . >>>> >>>> It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in >>>> certain circles, is moot. >>>> >>>> You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >>>> >>>> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >>>> >>>> Glad to help out - Happy New Year, >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* elle Monday, >>>> January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> What does >>>> >>>> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? >>>> >>>> Is this a guy thing??? >>>> >>>> elle >>>> >>>> --- On *Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >>>> >* wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Rik Sandberg >>>> > >>>> Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>>> To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" < >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >>>> >>>> Good evening All, >>>> >>>> Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to >>>> be a democrat" >>>> >>>> What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! >>>> >>>> ____________________________ >>>> >>>> On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: >>>> >>>> My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. >>>> She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. >>>> >>>> Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year >>>> for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For >>>> this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice >>>> neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not >>>> required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. >>>> >>>> She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these >>>> accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has >>>> absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others >>>> who go out and earn a living every day. >>>> >>>> I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick >>>> in the head, *Holy crap! My cat is a democrat!* >>>> >>>> (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an >>>> email) >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >>> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >>> Churchill >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >> Churchill >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/fbad910d/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 7 13:03:12 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:03:12 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Elle, they have you in mind Message-ID: See this utube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMeDmV0ufU Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/14223c1a/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Jan 7 13:37:15 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:37:15 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat References: <6634e19e1001061227r378e093esa1f927f8464b000e@mail.gmail.com><95693.29119.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><6634e19e1001070754sb659d07hf4670dda17be9577@mail.gmail.com><4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <6634e19e1001070925i42f0dbe6yadbc0896b6e8f761@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B5A6C115454E69B949ED43F3D0BA0D@ebsoffice> Rik, Discussion is what we stand for - the freedom to discuss, review and to criticize as we see fit. I am simply pointing out that everything on the Swiftwater Gazette and much of the Internet is in the public view. One should have no expectation of privacy. Just my paranoia bubbling to the surface ... Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Sandberg To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat Mike, To have discussed something is one thing. To have actually done it, another. Were I considering such a thing, minimal discussion would certainly be a goal. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: Elle, Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google indexed) forum, how private can it be?? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Sandberg To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat Elle, Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might consider a private, unrecorded purchase. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle wrote: rik, Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away from here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot country boys are getting restless. elle --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM Elle, Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real thing. Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time yet.... elle --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike From: elle Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM What does 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/2c040510/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 14:55:36 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:55:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Anyone heard this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <915081.33264.qm@web111201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> thanks, Mike... I had also read that snopes had been debunked as closet Obamists. elle --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Anyone heard this To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:35 AM On Sunday,?Jan 10, 2010?the FOX schedule is as follows (http://www.fox.com/schedule.htm?src=menu_item_schedule#week:2010-01-10): ? THE SIMPSONS 20TH ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL - IN 3-D! ON ICE! - ALL-NEW 1-HOUR FOX SPECIAL"The Simpsons 20th Anniversary Special - in 3-D! On Ice!" 8:30 pm - 9:30 pm Eastern time zone TV-PG - The Simpsons celebrate 20 years on the air with a 1-hour special tonight ? How revealing can it be? ? For more info, check: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/foxnews.asp ? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: elle To: sw Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:14 AM Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Anyone heard this guys, I rec'd this in a email (originally dated Jan. 5) this AM...but it seems that I'd heard this earlier...anyone have a clue? elle ? ? I don't know anything about this, but guess we will find out Sunday! ? This Sunday at?8:00pm?central? 9:00pm?eastern.?FOX News Channel ? Maybe this is why the White House has been discounting FOX. ? Sounds like this could be History in the making - someone may go down - either Obama or Fox News. ? It may be that Fox has been holding this information back due to the sensitivity of it and out of courtesy.? But, Obama has taken on Fox and it appears they are ready to spill the ugly beans of truth about the background of this individual who has had an extremely radical past. ? This Sunday Fox news, is going to air a very important documentary about Barack Obama, Sunday night at 9 P M Eastern. ? The report will go back to Obama's earlier days, showing even then his close ties to radical Marxist professors, friends, spiritual advisers, etc.? It will also reveal details about his ties to Rev. Wright for 20+ years, i.e., how he was participating with this man, and not for the reasons he states! ? The report has uncovered more of Obama's radical past and we will see things that no one in the media is willing to put out there.? It will be a segment to remember. ? Mark your calendar and pass this on to everyone you know:? Sunday night,?8 PM CT;?9 PM ET.? Democrat or Republican, this report will open your eyes to how YOUR country is being sold down the road to Totalitarian Socialism.? If you care about the direction of our country, pass this notice on to everyone you know. ? ? _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/d44e6df2/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 14:56:14 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:56:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> Message-ID: <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> We'll meet behind the outhouse. e. --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM ? Elle, ? Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google indexed) forum, how private can it be?? ? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Sandberg To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat Elle, Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might consider a private, unrecorded purchase. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle wrote: rik, Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away from here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot country boys are getting restless.? elle --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM Elle, Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real thing. Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun ?that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time yet.... elle --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute.? How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, ? .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol ? I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round.? It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock.? The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. ? According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. ? You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 ? Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike ? From: elle??Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM ? What does? 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/683be328/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 14:57:22 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:57:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Elle, they have you in mind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <463342.60775.qm@web111206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Ed, I'd already seen it. elle --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Ed Kroposki wrote: From: Ed Kroposki Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Elle, they have you in mind To: "Swift Water" Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 1:03 PM See this utube: ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMeDmV0ufU ? Ed K -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/d863d5e1/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Jan 7 15:01:41 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:01:41 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat References: <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Is nowhere sacred? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: elle To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat We'll meet behind the outhouse. e. --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM ? Elle, Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google indexed) forum, how private can it be?? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Sandberg To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat Elle, Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might consider a private, unrecorded purchase. Rik On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle wrote: rik, Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away from here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot country boys are getting restless. elle --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM Elle, Not too many things will turn an intruder around quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I think I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real thing. Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches short, but still legal). For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that really means is the stock is a bit shorter. This guy, Massad Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for folks that want to learn about home/self defense with firearms. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html Rik On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle wrote: Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe a recording of someone racking a shell in a shotgun...that's probably more my speed... Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time yet.... elle --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM Elle, Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper rifles (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. Trouble with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 Garand and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. In a home defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure of that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by the bed or conceal on your belt, under your jacket. Rik On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, elle wrote: Mike & Rik, thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." that did not compute. How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right order...) elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: From: Michael D. Weisner Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM ? Elle, .45 = caliber ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol I believe that the phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the .45 caliber round. It injures (or kills) by hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim need not be precise to achieve the desired results hence no need to fire a second time. According to Wikipedia: The result is one of the world's most effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets.[9] The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. It's not a guy thing but rather a gun thing, although the difference, in certain circles, is moot. You might be interested (or not) in the T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 Glad to help out - Happy New Year, Mike From: elle Monday, January 04, 2010 7:42 PM What does 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly......mean? Is this a guy thing??? elle --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: From: Rik Sandberg Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM Good evening All, Read this just now in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who wants to be a democrat" What a HOOT!! I 'bout fell outa' my chair!! ____________________________ On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, TigerLady said: My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has her food prepared for her. She can eat whenever she wants, 24/7/365. Her meals are provided at no cost to her. She visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, and again during the year if any medical needs arise. For this she pays nothing, and nothing is required of her. She lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than she needs, but she is not required to do any upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else cleans it up. She has her choice of luxurious places to sleep. She receives these accommodations absolutely free.. She is living like a queen, and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. All of her costs are picked up by others who go out and earn a living every day. I was just thinking about all this, and suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! (my apology to the person who actually wrote this-I received it in an email) -- 45 A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is silly. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100107/7eb59fa6/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 18:45:15 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 08:45:15 +0900 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> Elle, Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited so I`m just skimming `da list`. http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in tow so the world will be safe. Keep the States together for me until I get back! Brad On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > > e. > > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > > From: Michael D. Weisner > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > > ? > > > > > > > Elle, > > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > Rik > Sandberg > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > AM > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > wants to be a democrat > > Elle, > > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > > Rik > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > wrote: > > > > > > rik, > > > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away > from > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > > > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot > country boys are getting restless. > > > elle > > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: Re: > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > > > > > > Elle, > > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I > think > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real > thing. > > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches > short, > but still legal). > > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > > This guy, Massad > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with > firearms. > > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > > Rik > > > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > wrote: > > > > > > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe > a recording of someone racking a shell in a > shotgun...that's > probably more my speed... > > > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time > yet.... > > > elle > > > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > > > > > > Elle, > > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper > rifles > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > Trouble > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 > Garand > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > > In a home > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure > of > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by > the > bed or conceal on your belt, under your > jacket. > > Rik > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > elle > wrote: > > > > > > Mike & Rik, > > > thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." > that did not compute. > > > How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right > order...) > > > elle > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > Weisner > wrote: > > > From: > Michael D. Weisner > Subject: > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > > > ? > > > > Elle, > > .45 = > caliber > ACP = Automatic > Colt Pistol > > I believe that the > phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the > .45 > caliber round. It injures (or kills) by > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim need > not be precise to achieve the desired > results > hence no need to fire a second > time. > > According to > Wikipedia: > > The result is one of the world's most > effective combat pistol cartridges, one that > combines very good accuracy and stopping > power > for use against human targets.[9] > The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle > blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. > It's not a guy > thing but rather a gun thing, although the > difference, in certain circles, is > moot. > > You might be > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > > Glad to help out - > Happy New Year, > Mike > > > From: > elle Monday, > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > > > > > > What does > > > 45 > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is > silly......mean? > > > Is > this a guy thing??? > > > elle > > --- On > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > > wrote: > > > From: > Rik Sandberg > Subject: > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > democrat > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > > Date: > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > > > Good evening All, > > Read this just now > in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who > wants > to be a democrat" > > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > fell outa' my > chair!! > > ____________________________ > > > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, > TigerLady said: > > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has > her food prepared for her. She can eat > whenever > she wants, 24/7/365. > Her meals are provided at no cost to her. > She > visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, > and > again during the year if any medical needs > arise. For this she pays nothing, and > nothing is > required of her. She lives in a nice > neighborhood in a house that is much larger > than > she needs, but she is not required to do any > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else > cleans > it up. > She has her choice of luxurious places to > sleep. She receives these accommodations > absolutely free.. She is living like a > queen, > and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. > All > of her costs are picked up by others who go > out > and earn a living every day. > I was just thinking about all this, and > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! > (my apology to the person who actually wrote > this-I received it in an email) > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > shooting twice is > silly. > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue > of > socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the > equal > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > > -----Inline > Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery > ....Winston Churchill > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing > list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 8 19:23:59 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 19:23:59 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] This is an incredible video. It takes about ten minutes to view. Message-ID: Brad, Sit down and relax and watch this if you have not already seen it on the flying boards. Thank Rummy for sending it around. Give yourself about 10 minutes. Click here: GRAY EAGLES FILM BY CHRIS WOODS | www.asb.tv Two thumbs up for this one. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100108/c824385e/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 9 14:53:30 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 14:53:30 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Poll written for Rik Message-ID: http://js.polls.yahoo.com/quiz/quiziframe.php?poll_id=46067 Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100109/bd31f1d9/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 9 15:03:58 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 15:03:58 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics of Ruin Message-ID: - FrontPage Magazine - http://frontpagemag.com - Architects of Ruin: How Big Government Liberals Wrecked the Global Economy - and How They Will Do It Again if No One Stops Them By Peter Schweizer Harper, $24.99, 217 pp. With Architects of Ruin, Peter Schweizer again delivers a knockout punch of a book that is the must read of the season for conservatives and should be a main topic of conversation for conservative media. Schweizer blows the lid off the 30-year leftist war on banking standards in the name of "equality" that created the housing bubble and caused the foreclosure crisis. (Somebody get this book to Glenn Beck as he recovers from his appendectomy- it'll give him at least a week's worth of blackboard material when he returns.) For just over a year, Republicans have half-heartedly tried to point toward Democrat politicians for being too close to federal mortgage lenders Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. They pointed out that Barack Obama got lots of campaign contributions from the lenders and protested that Democrats from Franklin Raines to Barney Frank and Chris Dodd have their fingerprints all over the housing meltdown that tipped the economy into crisis. But these dark rumblings don't really explain what happened. Instead, people see the Wall Street disaster, companies going under (or worse, getting bailed out by taxpayers' money) and their 401ks tanking. Egged on by the media, most folks pin the blame on Big Capitalism, aka Republicans. At best, the public wishes a pox on both parties. In succinct, witty and easy-to-understand language, however, Schweizer lays bare how radical activists spent 30 years undermining the banking system for their own benefit, and he exposes how liberal social engineering led to disaster. The Racial Shakedown Since 1977, when Jimmy Carter signed the Community Reinvestment Act pushed by fellow Dems with a lot of support from squishy-soft Republicans, the most important bank examiners in the United States have been Jesse Jackson, ACORN and a housewife named Carla Cincotta, a Saul Alinsky disciple from Chicago. The CRA effectively gives community organizers a hecklers' veto over bank mergers and other major banking decisions. They were given the statutory power to hold up deals worth billions until they received million-dollar payoffs. Since the shakedowns were enforced by federal law, banks inevitably buckled, surrendering one lending regulation at a time. This led to such "reforms" as accepting food stamps as income on a loan application and the introduction of such previously unheard of "innovations" as no-money-down mortgages. Think of how many times in the past three decades you've heard the terms "fair housing," "affordable housing" and "community investment." When you substitute those euphemisms with the words "lower lending standards," it becomes pretty freaking obvious how we got into a banking crisis. That's the most important revelation in Architects of Ruin. For 30 years, the vast majority of so-called banking reforms and regulations have been at the behest of "community organizations." Banks initially buckled under to the pressure under the threat of being labeled racist by Congress and a willing media, but the sums at risk grew from billions to trillions under the Clinton administration, when ACORN's agenda was backed by the full force of the Justice Department. In a nutshell (an acorn?): For 30 years, radical socialist groups who view banks as racist hoarders of the downtrodden proletariat's money have had the power to block normal business activity unless a bank pays them gobs of cash in tribute. This is something that has only been hinted at in the debates over the causes of the financial meltdown. Leave it to Schweizer - who proved in his bestselling Do As I Say, (Not As I Do) [1] - that he is the master of exposing liberal hypocrisy and fecklessness to bring us the story. Schweizer reveals how Alinsky-inspired Chicago radicals from Jesse Jackson to ACORN dragged banks, kicking and screaming, into what are now called "predatory lending" practices, and the institutions that actively resisted the tide were painted as racists. As the author writes: "(I)t has now become an article of faith for American liberals that the mortgage industry is pervasively (if unconsciously) racist. . Having ceded this argument to the Left in the 1960s, conservatives have allowed home ownership to be defined as a new civil right, one that must be guaranteed by the federal government, rather than as a privilege to be earned by hard work and wise financial management." Once home ownership was made a civil right, banks were viewed as both the obstacle to that right and the means for securing it. The process became so upside-down that a bad credit score became a way to get favorable lending treatment. Clinton's Bail-out Capitalism But even this wasn't enough to bring down the system. The loans may have cost more, encouraged bad habits and were bad for banking, but it was a matter of a few nuisance billions. They were, after all, secured loans. The system could absorb it, and we all paid for it. To overload the system to the tune of trillions took the full faith and credit of the U.S. government - and a slick President willing to play the system for votes and cash. Bill Clinton filled his administration with both fair housing activists and Wall Street masters of the universe. While experts knew housing discrimination was largely a myth by the early 1990s, Attorney General Janet Reno - with Clinton's blessing - paid back their campaign supporters by sending hundreds of Justice Department lawyers to harass banks into making more "community investments," based on bogus "studies" that took race but not credit history into account to "prove" racism in lending. More importantly, Schweizer writes, Clinton began the bail-out culture that meant Wall Street gamblers - most notably the Clinton-connected firm of Goldman-Sachs - could make millions even while making bad investments. After Clinton bailed out Wall Street firms for wildly speculative investments in Mexico, Russia and South Korea, derivatives based on stodgy, old federally insured American mortgages - no matter how the regulations had been diluted - could hardly raise an eyebrow. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac suddenly were more than just housing assistance agencies -they became the biggest players in the mortgage business, and everyone in the banking business realized they could make money by writing mortgages and passing off the risk to Uncle Sam. You see, once banking requirements were lowered, they were lowered for everyone, not just those intended to be helped. The middle class and the well-off used the new mortgage instruments to move into increasingly larger homes - and, even worse, used the inflated housing values to get equity loans on their property so they could get money to spend on other things. By the end of Clinton's reign, such mortgages had mushroomed from a nuisance level of $5 billion to more than $4 trillion - an amount equal to a good portion of the GNP. Still it was only a fraction of what would later be revealed to be troubled mortgages based on illusory housing values. The Bubble Bursts While George W. Bush's administration eased back on the throttle and put forward a few reform attempts, Schweizer writes, the efforts were beaten back by Democrats quick to cry racism. Although Schweizer doesn't mention it, Bush also liked to brag a lot about the "ownership society" and the fact that more minorities owned homes during his administration than in any other time in history. Like spending discipline, this was just another conflict the Bush administration avoided while fighting two wars. But as the title of a good new economics text by Guy Sorman, Economics Does Not Lie, reminds us, the chickens came home to roost. One of the first major banks to fail after the Fed had to bail out Freddie, Fannie and AIG was Washington Mutual, a bank that spent an inordinate amount of time bragging about its "multicultural loans." In the end, George W. Bush panicked and pushed TARP, the mother of all bailouts, but it did not work and may not have even have been necessary. The move may have pushed the correction down the road, and once again, Goldman Sachs was not only protected from bad losses but also made out like bandits. Schweizer lists many of the politically powerful people and groups that also became rich through Fanny, Freddie and the whole "equal housing" scam: .ACORN was not only able to spread the wealth around and accrue political power, it also received $9.5billions in direct funds. .Rahm Emmanual, a senior advisor to Clinton and now Obama's chief of staff, made $46,000 an hour serving on Freddie Mac's board. .Obama not only was one of the Senate's top recipients of Freddie and Fannie campaign donations, but also, as a young ACORN attorney, sued Citibank for declining the mortgage of a black woman who had bad credit. The case generated $1 million in attorney fees. .Various other Clintonites - including Raines, Richard Holbrooke, Henry Cisneros, Webster Hubbel and Harold Ickes - were rewarded financially through Fannie or Freddie even though they had no background in finance, just a history of activism on behalf of "affordable housing." The Next Bubble? So what has Washington learned from the last 30 years blowing up in their faces? Not a damned thing. Less than a year after easy mortgage lending blew up the economy, Barney Frank has suggested the fix is: more easy mortgage lending. Obama, who advocated Robin Hood policies against banks and corporations as an ACORN community organizer, has gone beyond bailouts with General Motors and Chrysler by taking them over. Since then we've had the "Cash for Clunkers" program, which produced a mini-bubble in auto sales, and an increase in the CAFE regulations that contributed mightily to the automakers' ruin in the first place. Now Obama wants to take over health care, the most complex and personal industry and tells us it will "save money." But, Schweizer warns, the biggest boondoggle of alli s likely to be the "green economy." It will seem to have value in the short run, but as we saw with housing - which actually does have intrinsic value - something does not attain real economic value through government declaration. Schweizer writes: "At the heart of the problem lies the American liberal Left and its continued inability to understand the nature of capitalism and the process of wealth creation. Saul Alinsky and the activists who pushed through this CRA recognized that by tapping the assets of private corporations they could accomplish great things that could not be achieved through the federal government. There simply wasn't enough money in federal coffers to do that. Today's activists continue to embrace this strategy even more than in the past." Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Sidenote: While Architects of Ruin focuses mainly on the political culprits, Thomas Sowell, in his typically masterful fashion, gives a more complete economic picture in The Housing Boom and Bust [2]. Sowell, gives aFreakonomics-style look at the incentives that got everyone on board this disastrous gravy train - including a fascinating look at how California environmental regulations not only drove up housing prices but also how they rippled across the nation. While Sowell's book is wider ranging, he still traces the ultimate problem back to the CRA and the fact that banks were forced to adopt social goals rather than financial soundness. Both books are essential reading, though Architects gets the nod as a recommendation for the lay reader. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100109/10284093/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 15:33:33 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 14:33:33 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Poll written for Rik In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6634e19e1001091233h69fc895fn48b5f04d8270b17d@mail.gmail.com> Ed, What a suprise .... people are starting to get it. I'd bet if a few more people would read this article From John Mauldin, half of those cheerleaders that are left might want to rethink. The ones that still don't get it, never will. Rik * _____________________________________________ * *Thoughts from the Frontline Weekly Newsletter* 2010 Forecast: The Year of Uncertainty by John Mauldin January 8, 2010 [image: Visit John's Home Page] In this issue: *2010: A Year of Uncertainty "Rocking Even Me" Prisoners of Our Preconceptions The Statistical Recovery The Great Experiment Whither the Fed? London, Monte Carlo, Zurich, and Stocks* "Lying here, during all this time after my own small fall, it has become my conviction that things mean pretty much what we want them to mean. We'll pluck significance from the least consequential happenstance if it suits us and happily ignore the most flagrantly obvious symmetry between separate aspects of our lives if it threatens some cherished prejudice or cosily comforting belief; we are blindest to precisely whatever might be most illuminating." -- from *Transition,* by Iain M. Banks Still a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest -- *The Boxer,* by Paul Simon "They Are Rocking Even Me" This will be my tenth annual forecast issue. Time has flown by, and I enter a new decade of writing Thoughts from the Frontline. And even as I write about the high level of uncertainty of the current times, I am optimistic that at the opening of the next decade we will look back and realize that there has been an enormous amount of progress made. None of us will want to revisit the pleasures of the past ten years in some nostalgic dream. I am so ready for a new decade. And speaking of Paul Simon (above), reading the lyrics of *The Boxer,* one of my favorite songs from my youth, another few words seemed to hit home: ...Now the years are rolling by me, they are rockin' even me ...I am older than I once was, and younger than I'll be, that's not unusual ...No it isn't strange, after changes upon changes, we are more or less the same At the end of the letter I announce the dates for our annual Strategic Investment Conference, tell you about an important conference I will be attending next month for 9 days (a rather large chunk of time for me!), and drop a hint about why I am going to actually buy some stocks this decade. For new readers (and a lot of you have joined us this last year), let me quickly tell you what it is that I really do. I basically read and think for a living. I read a lot - hundreds of newsletters, articles, papers, magazines, books, essays, emails etc., almost every week. Each Friday I sit down and write about what seems to me to be the most important ideas I have come across, often tying together concepts from multiple sources into what becomes this letter, hoping to piece together a few parts of the puzzle, to help us see the bigger picture. On Mondays I send readers Outside the Box, which is an article by some other writer that I find interesting, and I try to make sure that I disagree with more than a few of them. We need to think, and that is one way of helping us do so. The letter started out ten years ago as a way for me to put into writing my ideas and thoughts on what I had read, and I sent it out to just 2,000 people. It has grown to where today it goes to around 1.5 million people and is posted on dozens of web sites. The letter is free. You can subscribe at www.2000wave.com simply by giving me your email address. And feel free to forward the letter to friends or put a link to it on your web site. And there are Chinese and Spanish translations of the letter each week as well. 2010: A Year of Uncertainty I read and research more for the annual forecast issue than any other letter during the year. And having had the luxury of not writing for the last two Fridays, I've had even more time. It seemed to me that the volume of forecasts out this year was greater than ever. But even I was amazed when Birinyi Associates, Inc. showed a picture of annual forecasts they had come across and printed out. It was a stack almost two feet tall and comprising over 3,500 pages. They helpfully summarized the projections for the major investment banks and compared them. Their work confirmed my own reading. The projections they cited and those I have read were all over the board and more divergent than I can ever remember. But as I read the tea leaves, there is a lot of uncertainty and caveats with these forecasts. And too many are based on assumptions that the future will turn out largely looking like the past. It has been my contention for a long time that we are in a period that looks nothing like the past, and to use backward-looking data to project the immediate future carries the risk of being very misleading. Thus, before we get into my projections, I think we need to take a survey of where we are. That means this annual issue may turn into a two-week project (I generally try to stop writing at eight pages); but if you don't know where you are, how can you figure out where you're going? This is a challenging time, and I am going to challenge a lot of people's ideas over the next two weeks. So, as we start, let's look at why we need to very carefully assess our belief systems. The two quotes at the start of the letter point out how difficult it is for us to accept an idea that challenges our belief system, or would have negative consequences for our lives. If we are long some investment, we look for good news that tells us our investments are going up, and gloss over the negatives. Last month, I found out I was just a few thousand miles from becoming executive platinum on American Airlines. I have never attained that level, and there are some major benefits. So, the flight which was the least expensive and gave me the required miles was a two-hour hop to Tampa, where ironically I had been the week before. I flew back on the same plane 30 minutes later. However, the time was put to very good use. I read a pre-publication manuscript of a book by my good friend James Montier, called *The Little Book of Behavioral Investing.* I was asked to write the preface. I have to say that this book will become one of those that I read at least once a year, as it just so pointedly reminds me of all the ways we make investment (and life!) mistakes because of the ways our brains are hard-wired. One of the real problems is that we "hear what we want to hear." Our beliefs or personal interests lead us to conclusions or actions that may or may not be helpful. Let's take a page excerpt from James' book: Prisoners of Our Preconceptions "For instance, a group of people were asked to read randomly selected studies on the deterrent efficacy of the death sentence (and criticisms of those studies). Subjects were also asked to rate the studies in terms of the impact they had had on their views on capital punishment and deterrence. Half of the people were pro-death penalty and half were anti-death penalty. "Those who started with a pro-death sentence stance thought the studies that supported capital punishment were well argued, sound and important. They also thought that the studies that argued against the death penalty were all deeply flawed. Those who held the opposite point of view at the outset reached exactly the opposite conclusion. "As the psychologists concluded: ?sked for their final attitudes relative to the experiment's start, proponents reported they were more in favor of capital punishment, whereas opponents reported that they were less in favor of capital punishment.' In effect each participant's views polarized, becoming much more extreme than before the experiment. "In another study of biased assimilation (accepting all evidence as supporting your case) participants were told a soldier at Abu Ghraib prison was charged with torturing prisoners. He wanted the right to subpoena senior administration officials. He claimed he'd been informed that the administration had suspended the Geneva Convention. "The psychologists gave different people different amounts of evidence supporting the soldier's claims. For some, the evidence was minimal; for others, it was overwhelming. Unfortunately the amount of evidence was essentially irrelevant in assessing people's behavior. For 84% of the time, it was possible to predict whether people believed the evidence was sufficient to subpoena Donald Rumsfeld based on just three things: 1. The extent to which they liked Republicans 2. The extent to which they liked the US military 3. The extent to which they liked human rights groups like Amnesty International. "Adding the evidence into the equation allowed the researchers to increase the prediction accuracy from 84% to 85%. Time and time again, psychologists have found that confidence and biased assimilation perform a strange tango. It appears the more sure people were that they have the correct view, the more they distorted new evidence to suit their existing preference, which in turns made them even more confident!" "We'll pluck significance from the least consequential happenstance if it suits us and happily ignore the most flagrantly obvious symmetry between separate aspects of our lives if it threatens some cherished prejudice or cozily comforting belief; we are blindest to precisely whatever might be most illuminating," wrote Ian Banks, of the protagonist in the science fiction novel *Transition* I am currently reading. (By the way, if you are a sci-fi reader and have not yet become addicted to the writing of Banks, start with his early work and move through the decades. He is one of the best hard sci-fi writers alive.) Those who are invested in the idea of a "V"-shaped recovery became excited over the jobs report last month. Unemployment rose by only 11,000 jobs, if you did not look at the underlying numbers or ignored the household survey. And the consumer confidence surveys have begun to rise. The Index of Leading Economic Indicators has now risen for six months in a row. Productivity is up. And surveys indicate that consumer spending is up. GDP growth in the fourth quarter looks to be in the 3%-plus range. All reasons to be bullish, if you are looking for a reason to be bullish. If you don't examine the underlying data, you can feel good. The problem is that when we look deeper into the data than just the headlines, there are concerns. For instance, take the contention that consumer spending is rising. I called Philippa Dunne at *The Liscio Report.* They survey the various states about taxes, among other things. "Sales taxes are not up and the current survey we are doing is pretty bad." She used the word "horrified" when commenting on some of the respondees' replies at the various state tax offices. Further, today we find that credit card lending dropped $17 billion last month, the largest drop in history. And this was during Christmas! Savings are up. Credit is down. Where did the rise in consumer spending come from? Remember, these are mostly surveys and/or comparisons with a disastrous 2008. And they compare same-store sales for chains like Best Buy, which no longer competes with the bankrupt Circuit City, or for chains that closed stores, forcing buyers to the remaining stores. The key to watch is sales taxes. When they are rising, consumer spending is rising. Consumer confidence is rising, but from truly awful levels. The levels are still well below any level in previous recessions and certainly do not indicate a robust economic rebound. A challenged consumer confidence survey is not surprising, given the fact that roughly 8% of the working population is getting some form of unemployment assisance. One in eight children in this country is living on food stamps. By the way, the total number of people on unemployment is about 300,000 worse than most media accounts report. The Extended (and Emergency) unemployment claims for those out of work more than 26 weeks are not seasonally adjusted. To get the total number of people on unemployment insurance of all kinds, you have to add the non-seasonally adjusted number of continuing claims, which is currently about 300,000 higher than the seasonal adjustment. Here is a chart from Philippa, at www.theliscioreport.com. [image: jm010810image001] She explained, "For the week ended 12/19, 10.42 million Americans were receiving unemployment benefits, With 5.44 million Extended claims (week ended 12/19) and 4.98 million Continuing claims. "But NSA jobless claims show a far different story. The advance number of actual initial claims under state programs, unadjusted, totaled 645,571 in the week ending Jan. 2, an increase of 88,000 from the previous week. There were 731,958 Initial claims in the comparable week in 2009... The advance unadjusted number for persons claiming UI benefits in state programs totaled 5,479,110, an increase of 388,729 from the preceding week. A year earlier, the rate was 4.0 percent and the volume was 5,317,388. "So the actual, the real benefits paid (Initial, Continuing, and EUC claims) hit another record of 11.268 million." (source: The Big Picture) Today's employment report was just terrible. The headline said we lost 85,000 jobs. That is from the establishment survey, where they call up larger businesses and ask them about their employment. They also do a household survey, where they survey about 400,000 households. That report reveals a much worse situation. Last month, single women who are heads of households saw their unemployment ranks rise by a massive 127,000. The number of employed men fell by 214,000. The total number of unemployed in the survey rose by an enormous 589,000. Those classified as not in the work force (due to the fact that they did not look for jobs) rose by 843,000! That now means that in 2009 3.5 million people were dropped from the potential labor force count because they were discouraged. If you add those to the 15.3 million who are unemployed, you get a much higher unemployment number than 10%. Getting that exact number is tricky, because if you are back in school (as some of my friends are) you are not looking for a job but are going to want one soon. And if the economy does rebound and jobs start to become available, then it is likely a large number of the discouraged 3.5 million will start looking for jobs and therefore be listed in the work force. Ironically, a recovering economy could see the unemployment number rise. During the recovery, it will be important to look at the total number of employed and not just at the unemployment rate. Sidebar: As noted above, a large number of people were dropped from the official labor force. What that means is that even though the number of employed people fell, the unemployment rate did not. It will be interesting to see if a lot of those people just decided that December was not a good time to be looking, spent time with families, or decided it was too cold to get out. How many will start looking as we get into the new year? We could see a rise in the unemployment rate next month if a large number do look for work. Look at the chart below from my friend Greg Weldon. (It just hit my inbox.) It shows the percentage of people who are participating in the work force. ( www.weldononline.com) It is sadly dropping, which means that incomes to families are dropping. The number of people I know who are looking for work or are struggling increases each week. It truly saddens me. [image: jm010810image002] The Statistical Recovery So why, if the employment picture looks so bad, are we getting positive GDP numbers? I coined the term "Statistical Recovery" last summer to describe an economy where the statistics are positive but it certainly doesn't "feel" like a recovery. So, how is it that we see a rise in the statistics? First, year-over-year comparisons are looking better, since 2008 was horrific. Second, inventory levels are about as low as they will go. In the way GDP is figured, a reduction in inventory reduces GDP. That was a negative figure for most of this recession. Simply because inventories not falling any more, it is easier to get a positive GDP. Second, as I have written, there are one-time benefits for GDP from the federal stimulus. Roughly 90% of the 2.2% growth in GDP in the third quarter was attributable to the stimulus, and we will see a similar affect in the 4 th-quarter numbers and at least through the first half of next year. A reduction in imports is also a positive for GDP. Ee are buying less "stuff" from abroad, so that helps statistically. Martin Feldstein, one of the great economists of our time, was quoted last week as saying that the recession is not over. Indeed, it you look at past recessions, it is not all that unusual (8 out of 11 times) for there to be positive GDP quarters in the midst of an ongoing recession. The Great Experiment So this is the backdrop as we look into the future. Unemployment is rising and is likely to remain stubbornly high (over 10%) for some time, except for the few months this coming summer when the Labor Department will hire hundreds of thousands of temporary census workers. The savings rate is rising, and consumer spending is at the very least challenged. The stimulus starts to drop sharply in the latter half of the year. States, counties, and cities are short about $260 billion and will either have to cut services (and thus jobs) or increase taxes. Housing is likely to get weaker, as there are large numbers of defaults coming because of mortgage-rate resets this year and next (more on that in a few weeks). Valuations on stocks are in the high range, and do not portend well for long-term returns. Further - and this is the most important item to me - Congress is likely to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire and to add insult to injury with some form of large tax increase for heath care. Between the local, state, and federal tax increases, we could see a massive increase in taxes of perhaps $500 billion in a $13-trillion economy, or about 4% of GDP. Think about that for a moment. It is likely we will begin 2011 with close to 10% unemployment, if not higher. Christina Romer's work shows that tax cuts have a three-times benefit to GDP. Tax increases presumably have a similar negative effect. (Ms. Romer, by the way, is President Obama's Chairwoman of the Council of Economic Advisors. This is not a partisan idea.) This is the great experiment to which we are going to be subjected. There are those who agree with Art Laffer and company that tax cuts are a positive for the economy (that would include your humble analyst). And there are those who contend that the economy did just fine in the Clinton years before the Bush tax cuts and that we will do just as well if we take them away. And further, taxing the rich a little more is not really going to change their behavior. My contention is that if such a tax increase is enacted all at once, the economy will at a minimum dip back into a nasty recession. If I am wrong, then I will have to abandon one of my long-cherished beliefs. I will have to stop arguing that tax cuts are as important as I think. Right now, when I read the data and studies, they confirm my tax-cutting bias. But I have to be willing to change my mind if The Great Experiment proves me wrong. But if you think unemployment is high now, you will really not like what happens if we dip back into recession. It could go a lot higher. They are truly risking a great deal if they decide to pursue this experiment. Thus, I am faced with a great deal of uncertainty as I look into the future with my forecasts - and we will get into the bulk of the actual forecasts next week. I almost titled this letter "The Year of Waiting," because there are so many important developments we are waiting on. Will they actually raise taxes in such a soft economy, or will cooler heads prevail and the increases be postponed, or at least phased in over 4-5 years? What will the health-care bill look like? There are so many things that could significantly change any predictions. As I have written for years, the stock market drops an average of over 40% during a recession. If we go into a recession in 2011, it is highly unlikely that there will be an exception to the bear market rule. But this market seemingly wants to go higher. Smart people like my partner Steve Blumenthal argue with me that the technicals say we could go a lot higher in the short term. And he may very well be (and probably is) right. This is a trader's market. It is not time to buy and hold large indexes or high-beta stocks and expect to be made whole over the next ten years. Hope is not a strategy. But waiting for the "shoe to drop" is frustrating, I know. However, that is the situation we find ourselves in. We will go into this next week, but the current environment is quite different than 1982, when the last bull market started. Rates were falling; they are now likely to rise over time. Taxes were going down. Valuations were at historical lows, not high and rising. Inflation was coming down. And on and on. The current environment is not one in which bull markets are born. Whither the Fed? The futures market is pricing in rate hikes from the Fed beginning this fall. I highly doubt a politicized Fed will hike rates with unemployment over 10%, ahead of a November election. We are going to have a very easy monetary policy for longer than most observers think. The Fed has painted itself into a very tough corner. Raising rates in a high-unemployment environment is risky. Bernanke knows what happened in 1937 and does not want a repeat. But by keeping rates too low for too long, they risk an asset bubble or two. And the federal fiscal deficit of over $1.5 trillion is not making their situation any easier. The Fed has announced it is ending many of their various and sundry programs in the first quarter. They have essentially been the mortgage market. What will happen to rates? I think that is one of the reasons why Geithner has essentially lifted any limit on explicit guarantees for Fannie and Freddie. It will be seen as higher-paying government debt. It will also cost you, Mr. and Ms. Taxpayer, hundreds of billions in increased deficits, as they are telling those entities to eat the losses from large numbers of loan modifications. This is outrageous on so many levels. Congress should at least have to approve this. It's getting close to my eight pages, so let me end by saying that, as we face the next crisis - and we will (there is always another crisis) - we will find we have not fixed the causes of the last one. We still have banks too big to fail, we have not put the credit default swaps on an exchange, we have not reinstated Glass-Steagall, Barney Frank's bill (which was not the one that came out of committee) now makes it exceedingly more difficult to short stocks, we keep in power the same people who missed the problems the last time, and the list of bad policies bought (typo intended) to you by bank lobbyists grows ever longer. If the current bill looks like it was written by the bank lobby, that's because it was. But it means we will have to face the same problems all over again. But that is another story for another day. Next week we look at the dollar and other currencies, gold, commodities, bonds, emerging markets, and more. London, Monte Carlo, Zurich, and Stocks Tomorrow I head to Santa Barbara for the annual business planning session with my partners at Altegris Investments. Let me quickly note that our annual Strategic Investment Conference will be April 22-24 in La Jolla. The speaker lineup is powerful. Already committed are David Rosenberg, Dr. Lacy Hunt, Dr. Niall Ferguson, and George Friedman, as well as your humble analyst. We are talking with several other equally exciting speakers. This conference sells out every year, and you do not want to miss it. We will have an announcement soon. Secondly, I am going to go to the Singularity University's 9-day Executive Program from February 26 through March 6. As for how I feel about it, the fact that I would devote nine days to it basically says it all. They have a very powerful faculty brief a rather small group about how the future of a variety of technologies will impact all aspects of business and the economy. It is not cheap, at $15,000, but I think it will be worth my time. They have had more applications than they have slots, but they have said they will give my readers special preference (as far as possible). You can go to www.singularityu.org and click on the link to the conference to find out more. I have been told who some of my fellow attendees will be, and let me say that the list is impressive. I am really looking forward to it. Hope to see some of you there. I will be in London January 20-23, then a few days in Monte Carlo, and then Zurich and Geneva mid-week. I do have some times open, and will be speaking in London with my European partners, Absolute Return Partners. Drop me a note if you would like to meet, and I will see what we can do. Finally, next Monday's Outside the Box will be very unusual. I have not bought a stock for over ten years, preferring managers and funds. But starting in the next few weeks, I am going to begin buying stocks in a particular asset class, and intend to accumulate a portfolio over the next five years. Even in the face of what I think will be a recession. If you are interested in my thinking on this, be sure and read the letter. I am so ready for 2010 and the next decade! As I look back, every decade has been better for me, and I think this decade will keep that trend intact. As Tiffani comes back from maternity leave (kind of), we have a lot of ideas for ways to serve you better. And we are going to be looking for suggestions. We are excited. I am going to the Cowboys game tomorrow night, and hope we can beat our post-season jinx. This is going to be a very busy year for me, but I have to admit I am having more fun than I ever had. Thank you for being a part of it all. Your more optimistic than this letter sounds analyst, John Mauldin John at FrontLineThoughts.com * John Mauldin, Best-Selling author and recognized financial expert, is also editor of the free Thoughts From the Frontline that goes to over 1 million readers each week. For more information on John or his FREE weekly economic letter go to: http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/learnmore* On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > http://js.polls.yahoo.com/quiz/quiziframe.php?poll_id=46067 > > Ed K > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100109/f4f3afea/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sun Jan 10 06:56:14 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 06:56:14 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] internet explaination of Obama's logic Message-ID: <51370F98980E4520A53F35EE0EF3FDA7@YOURB88038198E> "God grants liberty only to those who love it and are always ready to defend it." Daniel Webster Have you wondered why Barack Hussein Obama has insisted that the U.S. Attorney General hold the trials for the 911 Murdering Muslims Terrorists in Civilian Courts as Common Criminals, instead of as Terrorists who attacked the United States of America in a Military Tribunal ? Something to think about: If the Muslim Terrorists are tried in Military Tribunals, convicted, and sentenced to DEATH by the Military Tribunal, Barack Hussein Obama, as President of the United States , is required by United States Law to sign their Death Warrants before they are EXECUTED. He is not required to sign any death warrants if sentenced to death in a Civilian Court . Now think about the Muslim Jihadist, Major Hassan who recently slaughtered his fellow soldiers at Ft. Hood , Texas . Major Hassan did not want to go to Afghanistan and be a part of anything that could lead to the deaths of fellow Muslims. He stated that Muslims should not and must not KILL FELLOW MUSLIMS. Note: Let's see who will end up trying Major Hassan -- the military or civilian court. Barack Hussein Obama's motive is to make sure he does not have to sign death warrants for fellow Muslims who are convicted as Terrorist killers! Why would the President of the United States , not want to sign the death warrants for Muslim Terrorists who attacked the United States and MURDERED over 3,000 innocent United States Citizens on 911? Could it be that he is FORBIDDEN BY HIS RELIGION to have anything to do with the execution of Muslims? If you have doubt of his motive, look into his formative age education of daily indoctination into the Quran, the Muslim faith, and Sharia law. John W. King, Attorney at Law -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100110/1014ac6f/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 07:24:23 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:24:23 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Allen West Message-ID: <400985d71001110424j42ddfa5cu4e85d2dc43d96732@mail.gmail.com> Got this from an email update from the Allen West campaign. Brad ---------------------------- Greetings, The revelation of Senator Harry Reid's comments referencing "negro talk" is just indicative of the true sentiment elitist liberals, and indeed the Democratic party, have toward black Americans. The history of the Democrat party is one of slavery, secession, segregation, and now socialism. It is this new aged socialism born from the Johnson Great Society programs that have castigated blacks as victims needing government dependency. One need only to look upon the city of Detroit to ascertain what liberal social welfare policies have produced for the inner city... the new plantation for black Americans. The Ku Klux Klan was birthed by the Democrats as a terrorist wing to intimidate blacks, and whites, who sought to promote economic and education independence and social justice for blacks. What was once overt has just morphed and become covert, yet still exists. One can only imagine the insanity and media outrage if Reid's quote had come from a member of the Republican party. I look forward to hearing from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on Reid's comments... or has liberal hush money paid for the silence of these proprietors of poverty and victimization theory. Actually, if President Obama had any courage he would demand Reid step down as Senate Majority Leader, and discontinue any support for his Senate reelection... notice I said "if". I am quite sure the Soros money which elevated Obama to the position of President has bought his servitude. Why am I running for US Congress as a Republican? Simple. I would rather stand proudly and be called "an Uncle Tom and a sellout" than lose my self-esteem and be considered an inferior by liberals. I understand the legacy of the GOP and the black community... not the revisionist history espoused by liberal educators. I am not, shall never be, and will not raise my daughters to be a part of the liberal 21st century plantation. I am not just some articulate, clean, well spoken negro. I am an American warrior, Congressional candidate, and shall never submit to the collective progressive ideal of inferiority. Senator Harry Reid's comments are disgusting, despicable, and unacceptable. They are representative of how intellectual elite liberals do indeed speak of black Americans in their closed private spaces. Next week I have been invited to NYC to address the Hudson Institute, a conservative organization, conference on "Reclaiming American Liberty". That invite came to me because I took advantage of the opportunities this great Republic offered. I followed the guidance of my parents and set my standards above all others around me. I speak well and have impeccable communicative skills because my Father and Mother prioritized that quality. I shiver to think what my future could have been if I listened to the insidious rhetoric of charlatans such as Harry Reid, and the ambassadors of affirmative action who reside in the Congressional Black Caucus. Sure, the "stuck on stupid" blacks are going to address me in derogatory names, but I possess something which they lack; Honor, Integrity, and Character. To them I say, continue to be slaves to the liberals for your vote... and in a year you will be calling me Congressman West. Steadfast and Loyal, LTC(R) Allen B West From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 07:33:47 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:33:47 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown Message-ID: <400985d71001110433k252ed516je51676ff360d15b1@mail.gmail.com> The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass. Money is critical - please send what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health care. This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a check). http://brownforussenate.com/ Brad -------------------- http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 07:53:32 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:53:32 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] New Toy Message-ID: <400985d71001110453k6eaf3693uf7ee442bd20e26a8@mail.gmail.com> Having been drug into the 21st Century and being forced to give up "steam ship" gauges in airplanes (after a decade of resistance), I'm learning to embrace some other modern conveniences. Yesterday, I purchases an Apple iTouch (I'm pretty happy with my cellphone and didn't want an iPhone). This thing is handier than a shirt pocket, in fact, Fan wants one for herself now (and for her to drop 200 bucks on anything is a red-letter day). I'm off to Japan and China for round two (after a very short visit home) and will use the iTouch to track my inbound airplane. Slim's musician friend in Shanghai is playing this week so I'll get to catch his act. He was off last Friday and he showed me around the music scene in Shanghai and we had a ball. Run the world for me and don't forget to make a donation to Scott Brown for US Senate. Brad From hparsons at parsonsys.com Mon Jan 11 10:55:57 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:55:57 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <400985d71001110433k252ed516je51676ff360d15b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001110433k252ed516je51676ff360d15b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001110755u43e0f54bq22e2399788521ffe@mail.gmail.com> I think the threat of delaying his certification is interesting. It's my understanding that if there are any modifications done to the Senate version of the bill, and there *will* be, when it next comes up for a vote, any senator can ask that the amendments be read in their entirety. I think there will be some additional "delay tactics". On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass. Money is critical - please send > what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to > delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health > care. This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a > check). > > http://brownforussenate.com/ > > Brad > > -------------------- > > > http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/f73285e4/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Mon Jan 11 13:06:42 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:06:42 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] economic discussion Message-ID: I received an email this A.M. with a request to read this: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/01/08/mallory-factor-economy-predict/ January 08, 2010 byline: Mallory Factor 4 Reasons Why Our Economy Is Far From Out of the Woods The perfect storm in 2011 may bring us double digit inflation, soaring interest rates, record unemployment and a worsening recession. Prepare yourselves. As we begin 2010, the daily news reports tell us that the economy is on the mend and indicators are suggesting that the recession is ending. In many ways, things just seem better than at the beginning of 2009. The stock market has stabilized and rebounded. Reports tell us fewer people are losing their jobs. Other reports tell us that the economy is in the early stages of a recovery. U.S. manufacturing posts modest gains. By now, we have adjusted our expectations for the future downward and reduced our spending. And the shock of the economic meltdown which we felt so keenly in January 2009 has diminished. But it is really smooth sailing ahead? Or time to batten down the hatches? Fundamental trends are under way that could create the perfect storm for further economic disaster starting as early as 2011. Just like the weather cataclysm in the book and movie "The Perfect Storm" that wrecked the fishing boat and killed all on board, these trends threaten an economic downturn much worse than we have already suffered. Four major trends crest in 2011 which threaten to drown chances of a real recovery. First, taxes. Additional tax increases are expected to go into effect in 2011 to support health care overhaul. And the Bush tax cuts will end at the start of 2011 under budget policies already adopted by the Obama administration. After these changes, the top income tax rate including state taxes would average 52% across America. That top U.S. income tax rate would be higher than in France, Germany, Canada, and 23 other countries in the OECD. In 5 states dominated by Democrats--California, New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, and Oregon--the total top tax rate will be higher than in socialist Sweden. Moreover, the top capital gains tax rate would soar by 66%, from 15% today to over 25%. The individual income tax on corporate dividends would also increase substantially. These increases will stifle investment, entrepreneurship, small business start-ups, business expansion, new jobs, wage and income growth, and overall economic recovery. The second factor affecting the economy in 2011 is rebound unemployment as stimulus spending declines. Whether or not the stimulus has been effective in preserving and creating jobs, even the Obama administration says that the effects of the stimulus spending will have peaked by mid-2010. Indeed, stimulus spending will likely produce a negative feedback effect on the economy by 2011. This is because every dollar in Keynesian stimulus spending takes an estimated $1.23 out of future GDP, according to many economists. Additional stimulus spending by Congress-like "Cash-for-Clunkers" may extend phantom job creation a bit longer, but would still produce negative effects as soon as it is spent out. Once the stimulus money is used up, state and local governments that used the funds to plug holes in their general operating budgets will have to cut back jobs or raise taxes substantially. And since most jurisdictions used the money to support levels of spending that were too high to begin with--rather than to build additional infrastructure, all that spending will not have increased American productivity much. Yet, we will still be paying the bill for today's stimulus spending in the future, with higher interest costs and a larger tax burden. A similar effect will result from the Census Bureau hiring up to one million workers for the 2010 Census. Expect the unemployment rate to go up another 3 or 4 tenths of a percent when those same workers are laid off in 2011. The third trend that will crest in 2011 is inflation-from a combination of our weak dollar policy and our huge deficits. The dollar's decline reflects incredibly loose Fed monetary policy, as the Fed expanded the money supply while maintaining record low interest rates near zero. In addition, federal debt will exceed 100% of GDP by 2011, leaving us with the 7th highest government debt-to-GDP ratio in the world, in company with countries such as Zimbabwe, Jamaica, and Lebanon. That will produce further dollar declines, and further increasing inflation. Lastly, if Congress passes any of the expensive legislation that it is contemplating, the resulting costs will be the fourth and final cause of the perfect storm. Cap-and-trade, health care, and pro-union legislation like "card check" would all result in huge expenditures and inefficiencies that the American people will be forced to bear--starting mostly in 2011. And in the case of cap-and-trade, energy production will be sharply constricted, and energy costs will rise--further contributing to inflation, while killing still more jobs and creating still more misery. The perfect storm in 2011 may bring us double digit inflation, soaring interest rates, record unemployment and a worsening recession. Prepare yourselves. Mallory Factor is the co-chairman and co-founder of the Monday Meeting, an influential meeting of economic conservatives, journalists and corporate leaders in New York City. Mr. Factor is a well-known merchant banker and speaks and writes frequently on economic and fiscal topics for news stations, leading newspapers and other print and online publications. Mr. Factor writes frequently for the Fox Forum and is seen regularly on Fox News Channel. Mr. Factor can be reached at mallory.factor at malloryfactor.com. Copyright 2009 FOX News Network, LLC. All rights reserved. All market data delayed 20 minutes. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/b6758c0a/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 14:15:13 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:15:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <667941.78001.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Nice looking as well as lethal. elle --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Brad Haslett wrote: From: Brad Haslett Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 6:45 PM Elle, Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited so I`m just skimming `da list`. http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm Fills a lot of squares.? I`m headed out the door for Beijing and Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool with it - taking company plane instead.? Next time I`ll have laptop in tow so the world will be safe. Keep the States together for me until I get back! Brad On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > > e. > > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > > From: Michael D. Weisner > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > > ? > > > > > > > Elle, > > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > > Mike > >???----- Original Message ----- >???From: >???Rik >???Sandberg >???To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >???Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >???AM >???Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >???wants to be a democrat > > Elle, > > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >???consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > > Rik > > >???On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >???wrote: > > > > > >? ? ? ???rik, > > >? ? ? ? ???Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, >? ? ? ? ???I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away > from >? ? ? ? ???here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > > >? ? ? ? ???thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the >? ? ? ? ???possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot >? ? ? ? ???country boys are getting restless. > > >? ? ? ? ???elle > > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: Re: >? ? ? ? ? ???[Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: >? ? ? ? ? ???Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ???Elle, > > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >? ? ? ? ? ???quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I > think >? ? ? ? ? ???I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real >? ? ? ? ? ???thing. > > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >? ? ? ? ? ???inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches > short, >? ? ? ? ? ???but still legal). > > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >? ? ? ? ? ???gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that >? ? ? ? ? ???really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > > This guy, Massad >? ? ? ? ? ???Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for >? ? ? ? ? ???folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >? ? ? ? ? ???firearms. > > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > > Rik > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ???On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle >? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: > > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???a recording of someone racking a shell in a > shotgun...that's >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???probably more my speed... > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mine. the only shotgun? that I could heft & hold >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???yet.... > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle > > > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Elle, > > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper > rifles >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???(1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > Trouble >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 > Garand >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > > In a home >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure > of >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by > the >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???bed or conceal on your belt, under your >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???jacket. > > Rik > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: > > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Mike & Rik, > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???that did not compute. > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???order...) > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Weisner >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: > > > From: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Michael D. Weisner > Subject: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???? > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Elle, > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???.45 = >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???caliber >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???ACP = Automatic >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Colt Pistol > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???I believe that the >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the > .45 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???caliber round.? It injures (or kills) by >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???hydrostatic shock.? The shooter's aim need >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???not be precise to achieve the desired > results >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???hence no need to fire a second > time. > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???According to >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Wikipedia: > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???The result is one of the world's most >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???effective combat pistol cartridges, one that >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???combines very good accuracy and stopping > power >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???for use against human targets.[9] >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???It's not a guy >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???thing but rather a gun thing, although the >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???difference, in certain circles, is >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???moot. > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???You might be >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Glad to help out - >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Happy New Year, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Mike > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle? Monday, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???What does > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???45 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???silly......mean? > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Is >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???this a guy thing??? > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle > > --- On >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: > > > From: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Rik Sandberg > Subject: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???[Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???democrat > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > > Date: >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Good evening All, > > Read this just now >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who > wants >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???to be a democrat" > > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???fell outa' my >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???chair!! > > ____________________________ > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???TigerLady said: > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???her food prepared for her. She can eat > whenever >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???she wants, 24/7/365. >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Her meals are provided at no cost to her. > She >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, > and >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???again during the year if any medical needs >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???arise. For this she pays nothing, and > nothing is >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???required of her. She lives in a nice >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???neighborhood in a house that is much larger > than >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???she needs, but she is not required to do any >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else > cleans >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???it up. >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???She has her choice of luxurious places to >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???sleep. She receives these accommodations >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???absolutely free.. She is living like a > queen, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. > All >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???of her costs are picked up by others who go > out >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???and earn a living every day. >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???I was just thinking about all this, and >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???(my apology to the person who actually wrote >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???this-I received it in an email) > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???shooting twice is >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???silly. > > -----Inline Attachment >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -----Inline Attachment >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue > of >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Churchill > > -----Inline Attachment >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Follows----- > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???_______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >? ? ? ? ? ???sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the > equal >? ? ? ? ? ???sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > > -----Inline >? ? ? ? ? ???Attachment Follows----- > > >? ? ? ? ? ???_______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >? ???mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >???blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery >???....Winston Churchill > > > > >???_______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette >???mailing >???list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/c822a248/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 14:41:43 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:41:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <400985d71001110433k252ed516je51676ff360d15b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <410038.25951.qm@web111208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I liked what I read....so he is now one of my Discover buddies. thanks for the info. elle --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Brad Haslett wrote: From: Brad Haslett Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown To: "Letters to the Editor" Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:33 AM The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass.? Money is critical - please send what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health care.? This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a check). http://brownforussenate.com/ Brad -------------------- http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/d4e3f649/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 15:59:38 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:59:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <400985d71001110433k252ed516je51676ff360d15b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <189222.9672.qm@web111201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Brad, I forwarded this to friends who are organizing two Tea Parties on the No Neck..the second and third ones...they were already in line for this guy & have been contributing.....this is the group that was behind first-timer Catherine Crabill (who the VA Repub Party would not support as SHE would not support all their policies....)....she who almost??unseated longtime seat holder and local boy Al Pollard?(she won half the districts by a landslide & he barely squeaked through the others..tied one I believe...).......The next race in two years will be of interest indeed.... elle --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Brad Haslett wrote: From: Brad Haslett Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown To: "Letters to the Editor" Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:33 AM The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass.? Money is critical - please send what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health care.? This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a check). http://brownforussenate.com/ Brad -------------------- http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/0b197805/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 20:17:53 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:17:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] God and Virginia Message-ID: <106000.46472.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> God was missing for six days. Eventually Michael, found him, resting on the seventh day. He inquired, "Where have you been?" God smiled deeply and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, "Look, Michael. Look what I've made." Archangel Michael?looked puzzled, and said, "What is it?" "It's a planet," replied God, "and I've put life on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a place to test balance." "Balance?" inquired Michael. "I'm still confused." God explained, pointing to different parts of Earth. "For example,?northern Europe?will be a place of great opportunity and wealth, while?southern Europe?is going to be poor. Over here I've placed a continent of white people, and over there is a continent of black people. Balance in all things." God continued pointing to different countries. "This one will be extremely hot, while this one will be very cold and covered in ice." The Archangel, impressed by God's work, then pointed to a land area and said, "What's that one?" "That's the Commonwealth of Virginia, the most glorious place on earth. There are beautiful mountains, rivers and streams, lakes, forests, hills, and plains. The people from the Commonwealth of Virginia are going to be handsome, modest, intelligent, and humorous, and they are going to travel the world. They will be extremely sociable, hardworking, high achieving, carriers of peace, and producers of good things." Michael gasped in wonder and admiration, but then asked, "But what about balance, God? You said there would be balance." God smiled, "Right next to Virginia is?Washington DC. Wait till you see the idiots I put there." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/19501815/attachment.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 20:19:30 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:19:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Ray Stevens on Obamacare Message-ID: <55313.97789.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> A hoot to watch.. elle ?Ray Stevens?on Obamacare..........Sit back and enjoy??http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_-L4fyLUo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/7474d28a/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Mon Jan 11 23:07:50 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:07:50 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, doesn't the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of messing up... On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > Elle, > > Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited > so I`m just skimming `da list`. > > http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm > > Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and > Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club > there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to > move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool > with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in > tow so the world will be safe. > > Keep the States together for me until I get back! > > Brad > > On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > > > > e. > > > > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > > > > From: Michael D. Weisner > > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elle, > > > > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > > > > Mike > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > Rik > > Sandberg > > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > > AM > > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > > wants to be a democrat > > > > Elle, > > > > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > > > > Rik > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > rik, > > > > > > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a > Remington, > > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away > > from > > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > > > > > > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as > the > > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true > Patriot > > country boys are getting restless. > > > > > > elle > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > > Subject: Re: > > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > Date: > > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Elle, > > > > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I > > think > > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real > > thing. > > > > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches > > short, > > but still legal). > > > > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All > that > > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > > > > This guy, Massad > > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school > for > > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with > > firearms. > > > > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > > > > Rik > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe > > a recording of someone racking a shell in a > > shotgun...that's > > probably more my speed... > > > > > > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of > > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold > > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is > time > > yet.... > > > > > > elle > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > > > > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > > democrat > > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > Date: > > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Elle, > > > > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > > for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper > > rifles > > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > > Trouble > > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver > > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 > > Garand > > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > > > > In a home > > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get > somebody's > > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty > sure > > of > > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer > by > > the > > bed or conceal on your belt, under your > > jacket. > > > > Rik > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > > elle > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike & Rik, > > > > > > thanks for clarifying.....it was the > 'A.C.P." > > that did not compute. > > > > > > How about a 30.06 bolt action military > issue > > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the > right > > order...) > > > > > > elle > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > > Weisner > > wrote: > > > > > > From: > > Michael D. Weisner > > Subject: > > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be > a > > democrat > > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > Date: > > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Elle, > > > > .45 = > > caliber > > ACP = Automatic > > Colt Pistol > > > > I believe that the > > phrase refers to the "stopping power" of > the > > .45 > > caliber round. It injures (or kills) by > > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim > need > > not be precise to achieve the desired > > results > > hence no need to fire a second > > time. > > > > According to > > Wikipedia: > > > > The result is one of the world's most > > effective combat pistol cartridges, one > that > > combines very good accuracy and stopping > > power > > for use against human targets.[9] > > The cartridge also has relatively low > muzzle > > blast and flash, as well as moderate > recoil. > > It's not a guy > > thing but rather a gun thing, although > the > > difference, in certain circles, is > > moot. > > > > You might be > > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > > > > > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > > > > Glad to help out - > > Happy New Year, > > Mike > > > > > > From: > > elle Monday, > > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > What does > > > > > > 45 > > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is > > silly......mean? > > > > > > Is > > this a guy thing??? > > > > > > elle > > > > --- On > > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: > > Rik Sandberg > > Subject: > > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > > democrat > > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > > > > Date: > > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > > > > > > Good evening All, > > > > Read this just now > > in some comments on M/M's blog titled > "Who > > wants > > to be a democrat" > > > > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > > fell outa' my > > chair!! > > > > ____________________________ > > > > > > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, > > TigerLady said: > > > > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She > has > > her food prepared for her. She can eat > > whenever > > she wants, 24/7/365. > > Her meals are provided at no cost to her. > > She > > visits the Dr. once a year for her > checkup, > > and > > again during the year if any medical > needs > > arise. For this she pays nothing, and > > nothing is > > required of her. She lives in a nice > > neighborhood in a house that is much > larger > > than > > she needs, but she is not required to do > any > > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else > > cleans > > it up. > > She has her choice of luxurious places to > > sleep. She receives these accommodations > > absolutely free.. She is living like a > > queen, > > and has absolutely no expenses > whatsoever. > > All > > of her costs are picked up by others who > go > > out > > and earn a living every day. > > I was just thinking about all this, and > > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the > head, > > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! > > (my apology to the person who actually > wrote > > this-I received it in an email) > > > > -- > > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > > shooting twice is > > silly. > > > > -----Inline Attachment > > Follows----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > > Follows----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The inherent vice of capitalism is > > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent > virtue > > of > > socialism is the equal sharing of misery > ....Winston > > Churchill > > > > -----Inline Attachment > > Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the > > equal > > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > > > > -----Inline > > Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of > misery > > ....Winston Churchill > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette > > mailing > > list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/671649e7/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 00:37:08 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:37:08 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> Elle, No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or slug loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a good defensive round. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a .45 colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. BUT, you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a much smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen and handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a word one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a great match for someone with small hands. If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C Ruger. http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are made in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought mine and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take down and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun shop and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter case and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need to go try some on. Rik On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: > It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am > considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, doesn't > the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? > > Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a > .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of > messing up... > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > >> Elle, >> >> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited >> so I`m just skimming `da list`. >> >> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm >> >> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and >> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club >> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to >> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool >> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in >> tow so the world will be safe. >> >> Keep the States together for me until I get back! >> >> Brad >> >> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: >> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. >> > >> > e. >> > >> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >> > >> > From: Michael D. Weisner >> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM >> > >> > ? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google >> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > Rik >> > Sandberg >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >> > AM >> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >> > wants to be a democrat >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. >> > >> > Rik >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > rik, >> > >> > >> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a >> Remington, >> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles >> away >> > from >> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >> > >> > >> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as >> the >> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true >> Patriot >> > country boys are getting restless. >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Rik Sandberg >> > Subject: Re: >> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: >> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I >> > think >> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the >> real >> > thing. >> > >> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches >> > short, >> > but still legal). >> > >> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All >> that >> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >> > >> > This guy, Massad >> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school >> for >> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >> > firearms. >> > >> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >> > >> > Rik >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a >> > shotgun...that's >> > probably more my speed... >> > >> > >> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold >> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >> time >> > yet.... >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Rik Sandberg >> > >> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >> a >> > democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: >> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >> > for longer range hunting. These were used as >> sniper >> > rifles >> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >> > Trouble >> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to >> deliver >> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 >> > Garand >> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. >> > >> > In a home >> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get >> somebody's >> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty >> sure >> > of >> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer >> by >> > the >> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your >> > jacket. >> > >> > Rik >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >> > elle >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Mike & Rik, >> > >> > >> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the >> 'A.C.P." >> > that did not compute. >> > >> > >> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military >> issue >> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the >> right >> > order...) >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >> > Weisner >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: >> > Michael D. Weisner > > >> > Subject: >> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >> a >> > democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: >> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >> > >> > >> > ? >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > .45 = >> > caliber >> > ACP = Automatic >> > Colt Pistol >> > >> > I believe that the >> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" of >> the >> > .45 >> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) by >> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim >> need >> > not be precise to achieve the desired >> > results >> > hence no need to fire a second >> > time. >> > >> > According to >> > Wikipedia: >> > >> > The result is one of the world's most >> > effective combat pistol cartridges, one >> that >> > combines very good accuracy and stopping >> > power >> > for use against human targets.[9] >> > The cartridge also has relatively low >> muzzle >> > blast and flash, as well as moderate >> recoil. >> > It's not a guy >> > thing but rather a gun thing, although >> the >> > difference, in certain circles, is >> > moot. >> > >> > You might be >> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >> > >> > >> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >> > >> > Glad to help out - >> > Happy New Year, >> > Mike >> > >> > >> > From: >> > elle Monday, >> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > What does >> > >> > >> > 45 >> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >> > silly......mean? >> > >> > >> > Is >> > this a guy thing??? >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > --- On >> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: >> > Rik Sandberg >> > Subject: >> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >> > democrat >> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" >> > >> > Date: >> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >> > >> > >> > Good evening All, >> > >> > Read this just now >> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled >> "Who >> > wants >> > to be a democrat" >> > >> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >> > fell outa' my >> > chair!! >> > >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >> > TigerLady said: >> > >> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She >> has >> > her food prepared for her. She can eat >> > whenever >> > she wants, 24/7/365. >> > Her meals are provided at no cost to >> her. >> > She >> > visits the Dr. once a year for her >> checkup, >> > and >> > again during the year if any medical >> needs >> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and >> > nothing is >> > required of her. She lives in a nice >> > neighborhood in a house that is much >> larger >> > than >> > she needs, but she is not required to do >> any >> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone >> else >> > cleans >> > it up. >> > She has her choice of luxurious places >> to >> > sleep. She receives these accommodations >> > absolutely free.. She is living like a >> > queen, >> > and has absolutely no expenses >> whatsoever. >> > All >> > of her costs are picked up by others who >> go >> > out >> > and earn a living every day. >> > I was just thinking about all this, and >> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the >> head, >> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >> > (my apology to the person who actually >> wrote >> > this-I received it in an email) >> > >> > -- >> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >> > shooting twice is >> > silly. >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment >> > Follows----- >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment >> > Follows----- >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > The inherent vice of capitalism is >> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent >> virtue >> > of >> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery >> ....Winston >> > Churchill >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment >> > Follows----- >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is >> the >> > equal >> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill >> > >> > -----Inline >> > Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >> misery >> > ....Winston Churchill >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing >> > list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/c86838e6/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 00:39:02 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:39:02 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001112139s3fed30b8ue325eedaaeb529f1@mail.gmail.com> Opps .... Herb and Elle, On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Elle, > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or > slug loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes > a good defensive round. > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a .45 > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. BUT, > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a much > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen and > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a word > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a great > match for someone with small hands. > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C > Ruger. > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are made > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought mine > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take down > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun > shop and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter case > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need to > go try some on. > > Rik > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, doesn't >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? >> >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of >> messing up... >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Elle, >>> >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. >>> >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm >>> >>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool >>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in >>> tow so the world will be safe. >>> >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. >>> > >>> > e. >>> > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >>> > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: >>> > Rik >>> > Sandberg >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >>> > AM >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >>> > wants to be a democrat >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > rik, >>> > >>> > >>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a >>> Remington, >>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles >>> away >>> > from >>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >>> > >>> > >>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as >>> the >>> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true >>> Patriot >>> > country boys are getting restless. >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: Re: >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, >>> I >>> > think >>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the >>> real >>> > thing. >>> > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 >>> inches >>> > short, >>> > but still legal). >>> > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All >>> that >>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >>> > >>> > This guy, Massad >>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school >>> for >>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >>> > firearms. >>> > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle < >>> ragdollelle at yahoo.com> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >>> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a >>> > shotgun...that's >>> > probably more my speed... >>> > >>> > >>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold >>> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >>> time >>> > yet.... >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >>> a >>> > democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >>> > for longer range hunting. These were used as >>> sniper >>> > rifles >>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >>> > Trouble >>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to >>> deliver >>> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the >>> M1 >>> > Garand >>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. >>> > >>> > In a home >>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get >>> somebody's >>> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty >>> sure >>> > of >>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer >>> by >>> > the >>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your >>> > jacket. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >>> > elle >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Mike & Rik, >>> > >>> > >>> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the >>> 'A.C.P." >>> > that did not compute. >>> > >>> > >>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military >>> issue >>> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the >>> right >>> > order...) >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >>> > Weisner >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > Michael D. Weisner < >>> mweisner at ebsmed.com> >>> > Subject: >>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to >>> be a >>> > democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > .45 = >>> > caliber >>> > ACP = Automatic >>> > Colt Pistol >>> > >>> > I believe that the >>> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" >>> of the >>> > .45 >>> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) >>> by >>> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim >>> need >>> > not be precise to achieve the desired >>> > results >>> > hence no need to fire a second >>> > time. >>> > >>> > According to >>> > Wikipedia: >>> > >>> > The result is one of the world's most >>> > effective combat pistol cartridges, one >>> that >>> > combines very good accuracy and >>> stopping >>> > power >>> > for use against human targets.[9] >>> > The cartridge also has relatively low >>> muzzle >>> > blast and flash, as well as moderate >>> recoil. >>> > It's not a guy >>> > thing but rather a gun thing, although >>> the >>> > difference, in certain circles, is >>> > moot. >>> > >>> > You might be >>> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >>> > >>> > Glad to help out - >>> > Happy New Year, >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > elle Monday, >>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > What does >>> > >>> > >>> > 45 >>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >>> > silly......mean? >>> > >>> > >>> > Is >>> > this a guy thing??? >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > --- On >>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >>> > democrat >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" >>> > >>> > Date: >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > Good evening All, >>> > >>> > Read this just now >>> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled >>> "Who >>> > wants >>> > to be a democrat" >>> > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >>> > fell outa' my >>> > chair!! >>> > >>> > ____________________________ >>> > >>> > >>> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >>> > TigerLady said: >>> > >>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She >>> has >>> > her food prepared for her. She can eat >>> > whenever >>> > she wants, 24/7/365. >>> > Her meals are provided at no cost to >>> her. >>> > She >>> > visits the Dr. once a year for her >>> checkup, >>> > and >>> > again during the year if any medical >>> needs >>> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and >>> > nothing is >>> > required of her. She lives in a nice >>> > neighborhood in a house that is much >>> larger >>> > than >>> > she needs, but she is not required to >>> do any >>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone >>> else >>> > cleans >>> > it up. >>> > She has her choice of luxurious places >>> to >>> > sleep. She receives these >>> accommodations >>> > absolutely free.. She is living like a >>> > queen, >>> > and has absolutely no expenses >>> whatsoever. >>> > All >>> > of her costs are picked up by others >>> who go >>> > out >>> > and earn a living every day. >>> > I was just thinking about all this, and >>> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the >>> head, >>> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >>> > (my apology to the person who actually >>> wrote >>> > this-I received it in an email) >>> > >>> > -- >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >>> > shooting twice is >>> > silly. >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is >>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent >>> virtue >>> > of >>> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery >>> ....Winston >>> > Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is >>> the >>> > equal >>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline >>> > Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >>> misery >>> > ....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing >>> > list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100111/7837273a/attachment-0001.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Tue Jan 12 01:22:41 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:22:41 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001112139s3fed30b8ue325eedaaeb529f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001112139s3fed30b8ue325eedaaeb529f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001112222j8b5383icd97eab783172251@mail.gmail.com> :) I knew it wasn't aimed at me when you said "petite". ;) On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Opps .... Herb and Elle, > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Elle, >> >> No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or >> slug loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes >> a good defensive round. >> >> http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm >> >> That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a >> .45 colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. >> BUT, you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a >> much smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through >> the years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen >> and handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a >> word one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a >> great match for someone with small hands. >> >> If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C >> Ruger. >> >> http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y >> >> I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most >> American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. >> >> I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are >> made in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought >> mine and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. >> I haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I >> might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take down >> and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a >> size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. >> >> Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun >> shop and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your >> hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 >> Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they >> might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter case >> and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the >> internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of >> different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need to >> go try some on. >> >> Rik >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: >> >>> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am >>> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, doesn't >>> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? >>> >>> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a >>> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of >>> messing up... >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >>>> Elle, >>>> >>>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited >>>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. >>>> >>>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm >>>> >>>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and >>>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club >>>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to >>>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool >>>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in >>>> tow so the world will be safe. >>>> >>>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: >>>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. >>>> > >>>> > e. >>>> > >>>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >>>> > >>>> > From: Michael D. Weisner >>>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM >>>> > >>>> > ? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Elle, >>>> > >>>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google >>>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? >>>> > >>>> > Mike >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: >>>> > Rik >>>> > Sandberg >>>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >>>> > AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >>>> > wants to be a democrat >>>> > >>>> > Elle, >>>> > >>>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >>>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. >>>> > >>>> > Rik >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > rik, >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a >>>> Remington, >>>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles >>>> away >>>> > from >>>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders >>>> as the >>>> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true >>>> Patriot >>>> > country boys are getting restless. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > elle >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>>> > Subject: Re: >>>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > Date: >>>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Elle, >>>> > >>>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >>>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, >>>> I >>>> > think >>>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the >>>> real >>>> > thing. >>>> > >>>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >>>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 >>>> inches >>>> > short, >>>> > but still legal). >>>> > >>>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >>>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All >>>> that >>>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >>>> > >>>> > This guy, Massad >>>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a >>>> school for >>>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >>>> > firearms. >>>> > >>>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >>>> > >>>> > Rik >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle < >>>> ragdollelle at yahoo.com> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >>>> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a >>>> > shotgun...that's >>>> > probably more my speed... >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >>>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold >>>> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >>>> time >>>> > yet.... >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > elle >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>>> > >>>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to >>>> be a >>>> > democrat >>>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > Date: >>>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Elle, >>>> > >>>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >>>> > for longer range hunting. These were used as >>>> sniper >>>> > rifles >>>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >>>> > Trouble >>>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to >>>> deliver >>>> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the >>>> M1 >>>> > Garand >>>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. >>>> > >>>> > In a home >>>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get >>>> somebody's >>>> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty >>>> sure >>>> > of >>>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a >>>> drawer by >>>> > the >>>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your >>>> > jacket. >>>> > >>>> > Rik >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >>>> > elle >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Mike & Rik, >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the >>>> 'A.C.P." >>>> > that did not compute. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military >>>> issue >>>> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the >>>> right >>>> > order...) >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > elle >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >>>> > Weisner >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: >>>> > Michael D. Weisner < >>>> mweisner at ebsmed.com> >>>> > Subject: >>>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to >>>> be a >>>> > democrat >>>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > Date: >>>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Elle, >>>> > >>>> > .45 = >>>> > caliber >>>> > ACP = Automatic >>>> > Colt Pistol >>>> > >>>> > I believe that the >>>> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" >>>> of the >>>> > .45 >>>> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) >>>> by >>>> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim >>>> need >>>> > not be precise to achieve the desired >>>> > results >>>> > hence no need to fire a second >>>> > time. >>>> > >>>> > According to >>>> > Wikipedia: >>>> > >>>> > The result is one of the world's most >>>> > effective combat pistol cartridges, >>>> one that >>>> > combines very good accuracy and >>>> stopping >>>> > power >>>> > for use against human targets.[9] >>>> > The cartridge also has relatively low >>>> muzzle >>>> > blast and flash, as well as moderate >>>> recoil. >>>> > It's not a guy >>>> > thing but rather a gun thing, although >>>> the >>>> > difference, in certain circles, is >>>> > moot. >>>> > >>>> > You might be >>>> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >>>> > >>>> > Glad to help out - >>>> > Happy New Year, >>>> > Mike >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: >>>> > elle Monday, >>>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > What does >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 45 >>>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >>>> > silly......mean? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Is >>>> > this a guy thing??? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > elle >>>> > >>>> > --- On >>>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >>>> > >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: >>>> > Rik Sandberg >>>> > Subject: >>>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >>>> > democrat >>>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" >>>> > >>>> > Date: >>>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Good evening All, >>>> > >>>> > Read this just now >>>> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled >>>> "Who >>>> > wants >>>> > to be a democrat" >>>> > >>>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >>>> > fell outa' my >>>> > chair!! >>>> > >>>> > ____________________________ >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >>>> > TigerLady said: >>>> > >>>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. >>>> She has >>>> > her food prepared for her. She can eat >>>> > whenever >>>> > she wants, 24/7/365. >>>> > Her meals are provided at no cost to >>>> her. >>>> > She >>>> > visits the Dr. once a year for her >>>> checkup, >>>> > and >>>> > again during the year if any medical >>>> needs >>>> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and >>>> > nothing is >>>> > required of her. She lives in a nice >>>> > neighborhood in a house that is much >>>> larger >>>> > than >>>> > she needs, but she is not required to >>>> do any >>>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone >>>> else >>>> > cleans >>>> > it up. >>>> > She has her choice of luxurious places >>>> to >>>> > sleep. She receives these >>>> accommodations >>>> > absolutely free.. She is living like a >>>> > queen, >>>> > and has absolutely no expenses >>>> whatsoever. >>>> > All >>>> > of her costs are picked up by others >>>> who go >>>> > out >>>> > and earn a living every day. >>>> > I was just thinking about all this, >>>> and >>>> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the >>>> head, >>>> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >>>> > (my apology to the person who actually >>>> wrote >>>> > this-I received it in an email) >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >>>> > shooting twice is >>>> > silly. >>>> > >>>> > -----Inline Attachment >>>> > Follows----- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -----Inline Attachment >>>> > Follows----- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is >>>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent >>>> virtue >>>> > of >>>> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery >>>> ....Winston >>>> > Churchill >>>> > >>>> > -----Inline Attachment >>>> > Follows----- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >>>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is >>>> the >>>> > equal >>>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill >>>> > >>>> > -----Inline >>>> > Attachment Follows----- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >>>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >>>> misery >>>> > ....Winston Churchill >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>>> > mailing >>>> > list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> > >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >> Churchill >> > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/923bcb16/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 01:38:57 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:38:57 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001112238h8584d0ue93acd3d7eb55d24@mail.gmail.com> Rik, Elle, et al, Don't overlook the lowly Glock. I've got a .40 cal and wish I had a 9mm because the ammo is so much cheaper, but all the cops went to .40 because of the extra stopping power. The Glock is simple and can be handled well by small hands. I gave Fan a basic checkout (she was trained by Chairman Mao on rifles) and she easily understood how to quickly "lock-n-load". Mine is a pre-Clinton era non clip-limited version (I'm guessing that law is still in effect) and holds 15 rounds. As I explained to Fan, if you haven't hit the perp on the 15th round, throw the gun at them and run. Elle, take Rik's advice and see what feels comfortable in your hand. A buddy of mine bought his wife a .38 special that I barely could hang on to - his wife didn't stand a chance. I like the Glocks because they have a big grip and are well balanced, even with a nearly empty clip. Sign-up for a basic shooting class at a local range and see what they recommend for your hands and style. Let freedom ring! Brad On 1/11/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Elle, > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or slug > loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a > good defensive round. > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a .45 > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. BUT, > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a much > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen and > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a word > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a great > match for someone with small hands. > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C > Ruger. > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are made > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought mine > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take down > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun shop > and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter case > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need to > go try some on. > > Rik > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons > wrote: > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, >> doesn't >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? >> >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of >> messing up... >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Elle, >>> >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. >>> >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm >>> >>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool >>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in >>> tow so the world will be safe. >>> >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. >>> > >>> > e. >>> > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >>> > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: >>> > Rik >>> > Sandberg >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >>> > AM >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >>> > wants to be a democrat >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > rik, >>> > >>> > >>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a >>> Remington, >>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles >>> away >>> > from >>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >>> > >>> > >>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as >>> the >>> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true >>> Patriot >>> > country boys are getting restless. >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: Re: >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, >>> > I >>> > think >>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the >>> real >>> > thing. >>> > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 >>> > inches >>> > short, >>> > but still legal). >>> > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All >>> that >>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >>> > >>> > This guy, Massad >>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school >>> for >>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >>> > firearms. >>> > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle >> > >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >>> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a >>> > shotgun...that's >>> > probably more my speed... >>> > >>> > >>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold >>> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >>> time >>> > yet.... >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >>> a >>> > democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >>> > for longer range hunting. These were used as >>> sniper >>> > rifles >>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >>> > Trouble >>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to >>> deliver >>> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the >>> > M1 >>> > Garand >>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. >>> > >>> > In a home >>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get >>> somebody's >>> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty >>> sure >>> > of >>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer >>> by >>> > the >>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your >>> > jacket. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >>> > elle >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Mike & Rik, >>> > >>> > >>> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the >>> 'A.C.P." >>> > that did not compute. >>> > >>> > >>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military >>> issue >>> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the >>> right >>> > order...) >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >>> > Weisner >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > Michael D. Weisner >> > >>> > Subject: >>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to >>> > be >>> a >>> > democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > .45 = >>> > caliber >>> > ACP = Automatic >>> > Colt Pistol >>> > >>> > I believe that the >>> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" >>> > of >>> the >>> > .45 >>> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) >>> > by >>> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim >>> need >>> > not be precise to achieve the desired >>> > results >>> > hence no need to fire a second >>> > time. >>> > >>> > According to >>> > Wikipedia: >>> > >>> > The result is one of the world's most >>> > effective combat pistol cartridges, one >>> that >>> > combines very good accuracy and >>> > stopping >>> > power >>> > for use against human targets.[9] >>> > The cartridge also has relatively low >>> muzzle >>> > blast and flash, as well as moderate >>> recoil. >>> > It's not a guy >>> > thing but rather a gun thing, although >>> the >>> > difference, in certain circles, is >>> > moot. >>> > >>> > You might be >>> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >>> > >>> > Glad to help out - >>> > Happy New Year, >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > elle Monday, >>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > What does >>> > >>> > >>> > 45 >>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >>> > silly......mean? >>> > >>> > >>> > Is >>> > this a guy thing??? >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > --- On >>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >>> > democrat >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" >>> > >>> > Date: >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > Good evening All, >>> > >>> > Read this just now >>> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled >>> "Who >>> > wants >>> > to be a democrat" >>> > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >>> > fell outa' my >>> > chair!! >>> > >>> > ____________________________ >>> > >>> > >>> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >>> > TigerLady said: >>> > >>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She >>> has >>> > her food prepared for her. She can eat >>> > whenever >>> > she wants, 24/7/365. >>> > Her meals are provided at no cost to >>> her. >>> > She >>> > visits the Dr. once a year for her >>> checkup, >>> > and >>> > again during the year if any medical >>> needs >>> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and >>> > nothing is >>> > required of her. She lives in a nice >>> > neighborhood in a house that is much >>> larger >>> > than >>> > she needs, but she is not required to >>> > do >>> any >>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone >>> else >>> > cleans >>> > it up. >>> > She has her choice of luxurious places >>> to >>> > sleep. She receives these >>> > accommodations >>> > absolutely free.. She is living like a >>> > queen, >>> > and has absolutely no expenses >>> whatsoever. >>> > All >>> > of her costs are picked up by others >>> > who >>> go >>> > out >>> > and earn a living every day. >>> > I was just thinking about all this, and >>> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the >>> head, >>> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >>> > (my apology to the person who actually >>> wrote >>> > this-I received it in an email) >>> > >>> > -- >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >>> > shooting twice is >>> > silly. >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is >>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent >>> virtue >>> > of >>> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery >>> ....Winston >>> > Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is >>> the >>> > equal >>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline >>> > Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >>> misery >>> > ....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing >>> > list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > From hparsons at parsonsys.com Tue Jan 12 02:06:18 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:06:18 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <400985d71001112238h8584d0ue93acd3d7eb55d24@mail.gmail.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> <400985d71001112238h8584d0ue93acd3d7eb55d24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001112306j59bc215ai479ca5554f3c6d33@mail.gmail.com> Taking note of your last line, it makes me wonder. How many people that were never really motivated before to get a gun are now finding an internally driven "need" to exercise a freedom that they fear my disappear. On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, Elle, et al, > > Don't overlook the lowly Glock. I've got a .40 cal and wish I had a > 9mm because the ammo is so much cheaper, but all the cops went to .40 > because of the extra stopping power. The Glock is simple and can be > handled well by small hands. I gave Fan a basic checkout (she was > trained by Chairman Mao on rifles) and she easily understood how to > quickly "lock-n-load". Mine is a pre-Clinton era non clip-limited > version (I'm guessing that law is still in effect) and holds 15 > rounds. As I explained to Fan, if you haven't hit the perp on the 15th > round, throw the gun at them and run. Elle, take Rik's advice and see > what feels comfortable in your hand. A buddy of mine bought his wife > a .38 special that I barely could hang on to - his wife didn't stand a > chance. I like the Glocks because they have a big grip and are well > balanced, even with a nearly empty clip. Sign-up for a basic shooting > class at a local range and see what they recommend for your hands and > style. > > Let freedom ring! > > Brad > > On 1/11/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > Elle, > > > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or > slug > > loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a > > good defensive round. > > > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a > .45 > > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. > BUT, > > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a > much > > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the > > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen > and > > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a > word > > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a > great > > match for someone with small hands. > > > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C > > Ruger. > > > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most > > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are > made > > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought > mine > > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I > > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I > > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take > down > > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a > > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun > shop > > and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your > > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 > > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they > > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter > case > > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the > > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of > > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need > to > > go try some on. > > > > Rik > > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons > > wrote: > > > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am > >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, > >> doesn't > >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? > >> > >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a > >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of > >> messing up... > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > >> > >>> Elle, > >>> > >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited > >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. > >>> > >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm > >>> > >>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and > >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club > >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to > >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool > >>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in > >>> tow so the world will be safe. > >>> > >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! > >>> > >>> Brad > >>> > >>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > >>> > > >>> > e. > >>> > > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > >>> > > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > >>> > > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik > >>> > Sandberg > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > >>> > AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > >>> > wants to be a democrat > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > >>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a > >>> Remington, > >>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles > >>> away > >>> > from > >>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders > as > >>> the > >>> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true > >>> Patriot > >>> > country boys are getting restless. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > >>> > Subject: Re: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > >>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) > But, > >>> > I > >>> > think > >>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the > >>> real > >>> > thing. > >>> > > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > >>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 > >>> > inches > >>> > short, > >>> > but still legal). > >>> > > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > >>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All > >>> that > >>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > >>> > > >>> > This guy, Massad > >>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a > school > >>> for > >>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with > >>> > firearms. > >>> > > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle < > ragdollelle at yahoo.com > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe > >>> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a > >>> > shotgun...that's > >>> > probably more my speed... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend > of > >>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold > >>> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it > is > >>> time > >>> > yet.... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > >>> > > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to > be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > >>> > for longer range hunting. These were used as > >>> sniper > >>> > rifles > >>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > >>> > Trouble > >>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to > >>> deliver > >>> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the > >>> > M1 > >>> > Garand > >>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > >>> > > >>> > In a home > >>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get > >>> somebody's > >>> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm > pretty > >>> sure > >>> > of > >>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a > drawer > >>> by > >>> > the > >>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your > >>> > jacket. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > >>> > elle > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Mike & Rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the > >>> 'A.C.P." > >>> > that did not compute. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military > >>> issue > >>> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in > the > >>> right > >>> > order...) > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > >>> > Weisner > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Michael D. Weisner < > mweisner at ebsmed.com > >>> > > >>> > Subject: > >>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to > >>> > be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > .45 = > >>> > caliber > >>> > ACP = Automatic > >>> > Colt Pistol > >>> > > >>> > I believe that the > >>> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" > >>> > of > >>> the > >>> > .45 > >>> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) > >>> > by > >>> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim > >>> need > >>> > not be precise to achieve the desired > >>> > results > >>> > hence no need to fire a second > >>> > time. > >>> > > >>> > According to > >>> > Wikipedia: > >>> > > >>> > The result is one of the world's most > >>> > effective combat pistol cartridges, > one > >>> that > >>> > combines very good accuracy and > >>> > stopping > >>> > power > >>> > for use against human targets.[9] > >>> > The cartridge also has relatively low > >>> muzzle > >>> > blast and flash, as well as moderate > >>> recoil. > >>> > It's not a guy > >>> > thing but rather a gun thing, > although > >>> the > >>> > difference, in certain circles, is > >>> > moot. > >>> > > >>> > You might be > >>> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > >>> > > >>> > Glad to help out - > >>> > Happy New Year, > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > elle Monday, > >>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > What does > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > 45 > >>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is > >>> > silly......mean? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Is > >>> > this a guy thing??? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > --- On > >>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik Sandberg > >>> > Subject: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be > a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > >>> > > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Good evening All, > >>> > > >>> > Read this just now > >>> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled > >>> "Who > >>> > wants > >>> > to be a democrat" > >>> > > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > >>> > fell outa' my > >>> > chair!! > >>> > > >>> > ____________________________ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, > >>> > TigerLady said: > >>> > > >>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. > She > >>> has > >>> > her food prepared for her. She can > eat > >>> > whenever > >>> > she wants, 24/7/365. > >>> > Her meals are provided at no cost to > >>> her. > >>> > She > >>> > visits the Dr. once a year for her > >>> checkup, > >>> > and > >>> > again during the year if any medical > >>> needs > >>> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and > >>> > nothing is > >>> > required of her. She lives in a nice > >>> > neighborhood in a house that is much > >>> larger > >>> > than > >>> > she needs, but she is not required to > >>> > do > >>> any > >>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone > >>> else > >>> > cleans > >>> > it up. > >>> > She has her choice of luxurious > places > >>> to > >>> > sleep. She receives these > >>> > accommodations > >>> > absolutely free.. She is living like > a > >>> > queen, > >>> > and has absolutely no expenses > >>> whatsoever. > >>> > All > >>> > of her costs are picked up by others > >>> > who > >>> go > >>> > out > >>> > and earn a living every day. > >>> > I was just thinking about all this, > and > >>> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in > the > >>> head, > >>> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! > >>> > (my apology to the person who > actually > >>> wrote > >>> > this-I received it in an email) > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > >>> > shooting twice is > >>> > silly. > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is > >>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent > >>> virtue > >>> > of > >>> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery > >>> ....Winston > >>> > Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > >>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is > >>> the > >>> > equal > >>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline > >>> > Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > >>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of > >>> misery > >>> > ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing > >>> > list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > > Churchill > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/76567438/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 02:14:58 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:14:58 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <400985d71001112238h8584d0ue93acd3d7eb55d24@mail.gmail.com> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001112137q9f399e6r6fc1fb0d9474b6dc@mail.gmail.com> <400985d71001112238h8584d0ue93acd3d7eb55d24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001112314k1f1c5ef4rec787277307f6f32@mail.gmail.com> Brad, That magazine capacity/assault rifle law had a sunset on it. I guess they didn't renew it, so right now you can have most any magazine you want. I just bought a Ruger Camp Carbine in .223/.5.56 and was able to get 20 round magazines for it. Could have bought 30 rounders if I wanted. My kid has a Glock .45 that he likes pretty well. I haven't got to shoot it yet. Probably a good thing, I don't need one more thing to drool over. Right now I'm having a lust affair with a Ruger Super Redhawk, Alaskan in .454 Casull. Got any bears you need done away with?? Rik On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, Elle, et al, > > Don't overlook the lowly Glock. I've got a .40 cal and wish I had a > 9mm because the ammo is so much cheaper, but all the cops went to .40 > because of the extra stopping power. The Glock is simple and can be > handled well by small hands. I gave Fan a basic checkout (she was > trained by Chairman Mao on rifles) and she easily understood how to > quickly "lock-n-load". Mine is a pre-Clinton era non clip-limited > version (I'm guessing that law is still in effect) and holds 15 > rounds. As I explained to Fan, if you haven't hit the perp on the 15th > round, throw the gun at them and run. Elle, take Rik's advice and see > what feels comfortable in your hand. A buddy of mine bought his wife > a .38 special that I barely could hang on to - his wife didn't stand a > chance. I like the Glocks because they have a big grip and are well > balanced, even with a nearly empty clip. Sign-up for a basic shooting > class at a local range and see what they recommend for your hands and > style. > > Let freedom ring! > > Brad > > On 1/11/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > Elle, > > > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or > slug > > loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a > > good defensive round. > > > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a > .45 > > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. > BUT, > > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a > much > > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the > > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen > and > > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a > word > > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a > great > > match for someone with small hands. > > > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C > > Ruger. > > > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most > > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are > made > > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought > mine > > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I > > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I > > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take > down > > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a > > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun > shop > > and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your > > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 > > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they > > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter > case > > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the > > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of > > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need > to > > go try some on. > > > > Rik > > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons > > wrote: > > > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am > >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, > >> doesn't > >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? > >> > >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a > >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of > >> messing up... > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > >> > >>> Elle, > >>> > >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited > >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. > >>> > >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm > >>> > >>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and > >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club > >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to > >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool > >>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in > >>> tow so the world will be safe. > >>> > >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! > >>> > >>> Brad > >>> > >>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > >>> > > >>> > e. > >>> > > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > >>> > > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > >>> > > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik > >>> > Sandberg > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > >>> > AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > >>> > wants to be a democrat > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > >>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a > >>> Remington, > >>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles > >>> away > >>> > from > >>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders > as > >>> the > >>> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true > >>> Patriot > >>> > country boys are getting restless. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > >>> > Subject: Re: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > >>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) > But, > >>> > I > >>> > think > >>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the > >>> real > >>> > thing. > >>> > > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > >>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 > >>> > inches > >>> > short, > >>> > but still legal). > >>> > > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > >>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All > >>> that > >>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > >>> > > >>> > This guy, Massad > >>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a > school > >>> for > >>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with > >>> > firearms. > >>> > > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle < > ragdollelle at yahoo.com > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe > >>> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a > >>> > shotgun...that's > >>> > probably more my speed... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend > of > >>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold > >>> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it > is > >>> time > >>> > yet.... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > >>> > > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to > be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > >>> > for longer range hunting. These were used as > >>> sniper > >>> > rifles > >>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > >>> > Trouble > >>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to > >>> deliver > >>> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the > >>> > M1 > >>> > Garand > >>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > >>> > > >>> > In a home > >>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get > >>> somebody's > >>> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm > pretty > >>> sure > >>> > of > >>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a > drawer > >>> by > >>> > the > >>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your > >>> > jacket. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > >>> > elle > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Mike & Rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the > >>> 'A.C.P." > >>> > that did not compute. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military > >>> issue > >>> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in > the > >>> right > >>> > order...) > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > >>> > Weisner > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Michael D. Weisner < > mweisner at ebsmed.com > >>> > > >>> > Subject: > >>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to > >>> > be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > .45 = > >>> > caliber > >>> > ACP = Automatic > >>> > Colt Pistol > >>> > > >>> > I believe that the > >>> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" > >>> > of > >>> the > >>> > .45 > >>> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) > >>> > by > >>> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim > >>> need > >>> > not be precise to achieve the desired > >>> > results > >>> > hence no need to fire a second > >>> > time. > >>> > > >>> > According to > >>> > Wikipedia: > >>> > > >>> > The result is one of the world's most > >>> > effective combat pistol cartridges, > one > >>> that > >>> > combines very good accuracy and > >>> > stopping > >>> > power > >>> > for use against human targets.[9] > >>> > The cartridge also has relatively low > >>> muzzle > >>> > blast and flash, as well as moderate > >>> recoil. > >>> > It's not a guy > >>> > thing but rather a gun thing, > although > >>> the > >>> > difference, in certain circles, is > >>> > moot. > >>> > > >>> > You might be > >>> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > >>> > > >>> > Glad to help out - > >>> > Happy New Year, > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > elle Monday, > >>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > What does > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > 45 > >>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is > >>> > silly......mean? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Is > >>> > this a guy thing??? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > --- On > >>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik Sandberg > >>> > Subject: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be > a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > >>> > > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Good evening All, > >>> > > >>> > Read this just now > >>> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled > >>> "Who > >>> > wants > >>> > to be a democrat" > >>> > > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > >>> > fell outa' my > >>> > chair!! > >>> > > >>> > ____________________________ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, > >>> > TigerLady said: > >>> > > >>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. > She > >>> has > >>> > her food prepared for her. She can > eat > >>> > whenever > >>> > she wants, 24/7/365. > >>> > Her meals are provided at no cost to > >>> her. > >>> > She > >>> > visits the Dr. once a year for her > >>> checkup, > >>> > and > >>> > again during the year if any medical > >>> needs > >>> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and > >>> > nothing is > >>> > required of her. She lives in a nice > >>> > neighborhood in a house that is much > >>> larger > >>> > than > >>> > she needs, but she is not required to > >>> > do > >>> any > >>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone > >>> else > >>> > cleans > >>> > it up. > >>> > She has her choice of luxurious > places > >>> to > >>> > sleep. She receives these > >>> > accommodations > >>> > absolutely free.. She is living like > a > >>> > queen, > >>> > and has absolutely no expenses > >>> whatsoever. > >>> > All > >>> > of her costs are picked up by others > >>> > who > >>> go > >>> > out > >>> > and earn a living every day. > >>> > I was just thinking about all this, > and > >>> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in > the > >>> head, > >>> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! > >>> > (my apology to the person who > actually > >>> wrote > >>> > this-I received it in an email) > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > >>> > shooting twice is > >>> > silly. > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is > >>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent > >>> virtue > >>> > of > >>> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery > >>> ....Winston > >>> > Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > >>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is > >>> the > >>> > equal > >>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline > >>> > Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > >>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of > >>> misery > >>> > ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing > >>> > list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > > Churchill > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/206ce554/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 12 07:51:14 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:51:14 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Democrat discussion Message-ID: I gather you all do not want this discussion on the topic. But the search engines look to content too. Keep in mind some heavily built guns are that way to shoot heavier than standard ammunition. Certain guns shoot bullets with more grains behind the slug. Understand that those bullets are made for the guns that will handle them. When I shoot or practice, I use 38 special target loads. However, I keep it loaded with 357 personal protection loads. I think that they would slow Rik's bear. I know they would stop a southern Appalachian bear. I got that load to stop our local feral hogs, some look like Hogzilla. After I saw some that had to be over 300 pounds, I got armed. So, any more discussion on the requirement on the 1040 to list firearms? See: www.senate..gov. bill number, SB-2099 or Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009: www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/2e6018ae/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Tue Jan 12 08:16:06 2010 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:16:06 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8><955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8F5B284C18F74534A5E44EF114E3C516@acer7e8cb8aec8> Herb, Before you go out and spend $600+ for this "cute 45/.410", take a look at this review: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm I guess, as with all weapons, it depends what you are going to aim it at that matters the most. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb Parsons To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, doesn't the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of messing up... On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: Elle, Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited so I`m just skimming `da list`. http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in tow so the world will be safe. Keep the States together for me until I get back! Brad On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > > e. > > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > > From: Michael D. Weisner > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > > ? > > > > > > > Elle, > > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > Rik > Sandberg > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > AM > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > wants to be a democrat > > Elle, > > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > > Rik > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > wrote: > > > > > > rik, > > > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away > from > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > > > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot > country boys are getting restless. > > > elle > > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: Re: > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > > > > > > Elle, > > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I > think > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real > thing. > > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches > short, > but still legal). > > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > > This guy, Massad > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with > firearms. > > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > > Rik > > > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > wrote: > > > > > > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe > a recording of someone racking a shell in a > shotgun...that's > probably more my speed... > > > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time > yet.... > > > elle > > > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > > > > > > Elle, > > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper > rifles > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > Trouble > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 > Garand > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > > In a home > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure > of > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by > the > bed or conceal on your belt, under your > jacket. > > Rik > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > elle > wrote: > > > > > > Mike & Rik, > > > thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." > that did not compute. > > > How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right > order...) > > > elle > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > Weisner > wrote: > > > From: > Michael D. Weisner > Subject: > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > > > ? > > > > Elle, > > .45 = > caliber > ACP = Automatic > Colt Pistol > > I believe that the > phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the > .45 > caliber round. It injures (or kills) by > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim need > not be precise to achieve the desired > results > hence no need to fire a second > time. > > According to > Wikipedia: > > The result is one of the world's most > effective combat pistol cartridges, one that > combines very good accuracy and stopping > power > for use against human targets.[9] > The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle > blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. > It's not a guy > thing but rather a gun thing, although the > difference, in certain circles, is > moot. > > You might be > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > > Glad to help out - > Happy New Year, > Mike > > > From: > elle Monday, > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > > > > > > What does > > > 45 > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is > silly......mean? > > > Is > this a guy thing??? > > > elle > > --- On > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > > wrote: > > > From: > Rik Sandberg > Subject: > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > democrat > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > > Date: > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > > > Good evening All, > > Read this just now > in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who > wants > to be a democrat" > > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > fell outa' my > chair!! > > ____________________________ > > > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, > TigerLady said: > > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has > her food prepared for her. She can eat > whenever > she wants, 24/7/365. > Her meals are provided at no cost to her. > She > visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, > and > again during the year if any medical needs > arise. For this she pays nothing, and > nothing is > required of her. She lives in a nice > neighborhood in a house that is much larger > than > she needs, but she is not required to do any > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else > cleans > it up. > She has her choice of luxurious places to > sleep. She receives these accommodations > absolutely free.. She is living like a > queen, > and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. > All > of her costs are picked up by others who go > out > and earn a living every day. > I was just thinking about all this, and > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! > (my apology to the person who actually wrote > this-I received it in an email) > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > shooting twice is > silly. > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue > of > socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the > equal > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > > -----Inline > Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery > ....Winston Churchill > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > mailing > list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/97a2496d/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Jan 12 15:45:57 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:45:57 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] special video made for Rik!!!! Message-ID: <6454A8069766401F9FF35FCAAA0523D0@YOURB88038198E> Evidentially they have been watching the discussions mislabeled on this forum. I received a URL of a video made for Rik: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/045300.html A bit overwhelming? But he does sing Rik's song. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/62c1b102/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Tue Jan 12 16:53:35 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:53:35 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <8F5B284C18F74534A5E44EF114E3C516@acer7e8cb8aec8> References: <4597522EFEAF422E9B69B596E5480DAF@acer7e8cb8aec8> <955045.54570.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <400985d71001071545x5ecc53etdbb6915f5de3d604@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001112007o47277c8dy1e8bde39ba14a6bc@mail.gmail.com> <8F5B284C18F74534A5E44EF114E3C516@acer7e8cb8aec8> Message-ID: <5f889a891001121353k4e012c6by7cc30fafebdc5984@mail.gmail.com> I "think" about spending that kind of money a LOT more than I actually do it :) I had already read that review. Probably won't ever actually get the gun, but if I do, I still think the alternating .410 .45 load would work for me. I don't particularly want to kill anyone, and if a .410 gets their attention (I think it would), that would be good enough for me. If it didn't, I think even after all these years, I'd be pretty quick on a second pull of the trigger. On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Herb, > > Before you go out and spend $600+ for this "cute 45/.410", take a look at > this review: > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > I guess, as with all weapons, it depends what you are going to aim it at > that matters the most. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Herb Parsons > *To:* SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2010 11:07 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > > It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am > considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, doesn't > the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? > > Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a > .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of > messing up... > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > >> Elle, >> >> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited >> so I`m just skimming `da list`. >> >> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm >> >> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and >> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club >> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to >> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool >> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in >> tow so the world will be safe. >> >> Keep the States together for me until I get back! >> >> Brad >> >> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: >> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. >> > >> > e. >> > >> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >> > >> > From: Michael D. Weisner >> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM >> > >> > ? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google >> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > Rik >> > Sandberg >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >> > AM >> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >> > wants to be a democrat >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. >> > >> > Rik >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > rik, >> > >> > >> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a >> Remington, >> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles >> away >> > from >> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >> > >> > >> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as >> the >> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true >> Patriot >> > country boys are getting restless. >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Rik Sandberg >> > Subject: Re: >> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: >> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I >> > think >> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the >> real >> > thing. >> > >> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches >> > short, >> > but still legal). >> > >> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All >> that >> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >> > >> > This guy, Massad >> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school >> for >> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >> > firearms. >> > >> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >> > >> > Rik >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a >> > shotgun...that's >> > probably more my speed... >> > >> > >> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold >> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >> time >> > yet.... >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Rik Sandberg >> > >> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >> a >> > democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: >> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >> > for longer range hunting. These were used as >> sniper >> > rifles >> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >> > Trouble >> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to >> deliver >> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 >> > Garand >> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. >> > >> > In a home >> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get >> somebody's >> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty >> sure >> > of >> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer >> by >> > the >> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your >> > jacket. >> > >> > Rik >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >> > elle >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Mike & Rik, >> > >> > >> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the >> 'A.C.P." >> > that did not compute. >> > >> > >> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military >> issue >> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the >> right >> > order...) >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >> > Weisner >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: >> > Michael D. Weisner > > >> > Subject: >> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >> a >> > democrat >> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > Date: >> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >> > >> > >> > ? >> > >> > >> > >> > Elle, >> > >> > .45 = >> > caliber >> > ACP = Automatic >> > Colt Pistol >> > >> > I believe that the >> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" of >> the >> > .45 >> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) by >> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim >> need >> > not be precise to achieve the desired >> > results >> > hence no need to fire a second >> > time. >> > >> > According to >> > Wikipedia: >> > >> > The result is one of the world's most >> > effective combat pistol cartridges, one >> that >> > combines very good accuracy and stopping >> > power >> > for use against human targets.[9] >> > The cartridge also has relatively low >> muzzle >> > blast and flash, as well as moderate >> recoil. >> > It's not a guy >> > thing but rather a gun thing, although >> the >> > difference, in certain circles, is >> > moot. >> > >> > You might be >> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >> > >> > >> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >> > >> > Glad to help out - >> > Happy New Year, >> > Mike >> > >> > >> > From: >> > elle Monday, >> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > What does >> > >> > >> > 45 >> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >> > silly......mean? >> > >> > >> > Is >> > this a guy thing??? >> > >> > >> > elle >> > >> > --- On >> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: >> > Rik Sandberg >> > Subject: >> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >> > democrat >> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" >> > >> > Date: >> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >> > >> > >> > Good evening All, >> > >> > Read this just now >> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled >> "Who >> > wants >> > to be a democrat" >> > >> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >> > fell outa' my >> > chair!! >> > >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >> > TigerLady said: >> > >> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She >> has >> > her food prepared for her. She can eat >> > whenever >> > she wants, 24/7/365. >> > Her meals are provided at no cost to >> her. >> > She >> > visits the Dr. once a year for her >> checkup, >> > and >> > again during the year if any medical >> needs >> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and >> > nothing is >> > required of her. She lives in a nice >> > neighborhood in a house that is much >> larger >> > than >> > she needs, but she is not required to do >> any >> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone >> else >> > cleans >> > it up. >> > She has her choice of luxurious places >> to >> > sleep. She receives these accommodations >> > absolutely free.. She is living like a >> > queen, >> > and has absolutely no expenses >> whatsoever. >> > All >> > of her costs are picked up by others who >> go >> > out >> > and earn a living every day. >> > I was just thinking about all this, and >> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the >> head, >> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >> > (my apology to the person who actually >> wrote >> > this-I received it in an email) >> > >> > -- >> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >> > shooting twice is >> > silly. >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment >> > Follows----- >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment >> > Follows----- >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > The inherent vice of capitalism is >> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent >> virtue >> > of >> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery >> ....Winston >> > Churchill >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment >> > Follows----- >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is >> the >> > equal >> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill >> > >> > -----Inline >> > Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >> misery >> > ....Winston Churchill >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette >> > mailing >> > list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/d8ee664d/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Tue Jan 12 19:36:28 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:36:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001112222j8b5383icd97eab783172251@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <952600.3098.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Depends what he was referencing....;^) elle --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Herb Parsons wrote: From: Herb Parsons Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:22 AM :) I knew it wasn't aimed at me when you said "petite". ;) On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: Opps .... Herb and Elle, On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: Elle, No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or slug loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a good defensive round. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a .45 colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. BUT, you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a much smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen and handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a word one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a great match for someone with small hands. If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C Ruger. http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are made in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought mine and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take down and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun shop and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter case and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need to go try some on. Rik On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, doesn't the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of messing up... ? On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: Elle, Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited so I`m just skimming `da list`. http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm Fills a lot of squares. ?I`m headed out the door for Beijing and Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool with it - taking company plane instead. ?Next time I`ll have laptop in tow so the world will be safe. Keep the States together for me until I get back! Brad On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > > e. > > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > > From: Michael D. Weisner > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > > ? > > > > > > > Elle, > > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > > Mike > > ? ----- Original Message ----- > ? From: > ? Rik > ? Sandberg > ? To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > ? Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > ? AM > ? Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > ? wants to be a democrat > > Elle, > > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > ? consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > > Rik > > > ? On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > ? wrote: > > > > > > ? ? ? ? rik, > > > ? ? ? ? ? Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a Remington, > ? ? ? ? ? I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles away > from > ? ? ? ? ? here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > > > ? ? ? ? ? thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as the > ? ? ? ? ? possibility of a second American Revolution......the true Patriot > ? ? ? ? ? country boys are getting restless. > > > ? ? ? ? ? elle > > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > Subject: Re: > ? ? ? ? ? ? [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > ? ? ? ? ? ? Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? Elle, > > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > ? ? ? ? ? ? quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, I > think > ? ? ? ? ? ? I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the real > ? ? ? ? ? ? thing. > > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > ? ? ? ? ? ? inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 inches > short, > ? ? ? ? ? ? but still legal). > > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > ? ? ? ? ? ? gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All that > ? ? ? ? ? ? really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > > This guy, Massad > ? ? ? ? ? ? Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school for > ? ? ? ? ? ? folks that want to learn about home/self defense with > ? ? ? ? ? ? firearms. > > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > > Rik > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > ? ? ? ? ? ? wrote: > > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? a recording of someone racking a shell in a > shotgun...that's > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? probably more my speed... > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mine. the only shotgun ?that I could heft & hold > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is time > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? yet.... > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? elle > > > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? wrote: > > > > From: Rik Sandberg > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Elle, > > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for longer range hunting. These were used as sniper > rifles > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > Trouble > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to deliver > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? quickly, which is why they were replaced by the M1 > Garand > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > > In a home > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? defense situation, it'll sure as heck get somebody's > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty sure > of > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer by > the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? bed or conceal on your belt, under your > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? jacket. > > Rik > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? elle > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? wrote: > > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Mike & Rik, > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? thanks for clarifying.....it was the 'A.C.P." > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? that did not compute. > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? How about a 30.06 bolt action military issue > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? rifle. (think I got all the terms in the right > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? order...) > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? elle > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Weisner > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? wrote: > > > From: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Michael D. Weisner > Subject: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Elle, > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? .45 = > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? caliber > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ACP = Automatic > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Colt Pistol > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I believe that the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? phrase refers to the "stopping power" of the > .45 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? caliber round. ?It injures (or kills) by > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? hydrostatic shock. ?The shooter's aim need > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? not be precise to achieve the desired > results > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? hence no need to fire a second > time. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? According to > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Wikipedia: > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The result is one of the world's most > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? effective combat pistol cartridges, one that > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? combines very good accuracy and stopping > power > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for use against human targets.[9] > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? It's not a guy > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? thing but rather a gun thing, although the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? difference, in certain circles, is > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? moot. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? You might be > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Glad to help out - > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Happy New Year, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Mike > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? From: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? elle ?Monday, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? What does > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 45 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? silly......mean? > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Is > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? this a guy thing??? > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? elle > > --- On > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? wrote: > > > From: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Rik Sandberg > Subject: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? democrat > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > > Date: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Good evening All, > > Read this just now > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? in some comments on M/M's blog titled "Who > wants > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to be a democrat" > > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? fell outa' my > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? chair!! > > ____________________________ > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? TigerLady said: > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She has > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? her food prepared for her. She can eat > whenever > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? she wants, 24/7/365. > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Her meals are provided at no cost to her. > She > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? visits the Dr. once a year for her checkup, > and > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? again during the year if any medical needs > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? arise. For this she pays nothing, and > nothing is > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? required of her. She lives in a nice > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? neighborhood in a house that is much larger > than > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? she needs, but she is not required to do any > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone else > cleans > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? it up. > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? She has her choice of luxurious places to > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sleep. She receives these accommodations > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? absolutely free.. She is living like a > queen, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever. > All > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? of her costs are picked up by others who go > out > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and earn a living every day. > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I was just thinking about all this, and > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? suddenly it hit me like a brick in the head, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (my apology to the person who actually wrote > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? this-I received it in an email) > > -- > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? shooting twice is > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? silly. > > -----Inline Attachment > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue > of > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Churchill > > -----Inline Attachment > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Follows----- > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > ? ? ? ? ? ? sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the > equal > ? ? ? ? ? ? sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > > -----Inline > ? ? ? ? ? ? Attachment Follows----- > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? ? mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > ? blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery > ? ....Winston Churchill > > > > > ? _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette > ? mailing > ? list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/68e9df96/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Tue Jan 12 21:47:09 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:47:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: <400985d71001112238h8584d0ue93acd3d7eb55d24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <416868.65031.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> There is a local group...may be NRA.... w/ a firing range...they have classes for women.?Bears looking into. Thanx for all the info.....RW's down the road is the go-to place for all things w/triggers ... elle --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Brad Haslett wrote: From: Brad Haslett Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:38 AM Rik, Elle, et al, Don't overlook the lowly Glock.? I've got a .40 cal and wish I had a 9mm because the ammo is so much cheaper, but all the cops went to .40 because of the extra stopping power.? The Glock is simple and can be handled well by small hands.? I gave Fan a basic checkout (she was trained by Chairman Mao on rifles) and she easily understood how to quickly "lock-n-load".? Mine is a pre-Clinton era non clip-limited version (I'm guessing that law is still in effect) and holds 15 rounds. As I explained to Fan, if you haven't hit the perp on the 15th round, throw the gun at them and run.? Elle, take Rik's advice and see what feels comfortable in your hand.? A buddy of mine bought his wife a .38 special that I barely could hang on to - his wife didn't stand a chance.? I like the Glocks because they have a big grip and are well balanced, even with a nearly empty clip. Sign-up for a basic shooting class at a local range and see what they recommend for your hands and style. Let freedom ring! Brad On 1/11/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Elle, > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or slug > loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a > good defensive round. > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a .45 > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. BUT, > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a much > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen and > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a word > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a great > match for someone with small hands. > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C > Ruger. > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are made > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought mine > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take down > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun shop > and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter case > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need to > go try some on. > > Rik > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons > wrote: > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, >> doesn't >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? >> >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of >> messing up... >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Elle, >>> >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. >>> >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm >>> >>> Fills a lot of squares.? I`m headed out the door for Beijing and >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool >>> with it - taking company plane instead.? Next time I`ll have laptop in >>> tow so the world will be safe. >>> >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. >>> > >>> > e. >>> > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >>> > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> >???----- Original Message ----- >>> >???From: >>> >???Rik >>> >???Sandberg >>> >???To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> >???Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >>> >???AM >>> >???Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >>> >???wants to be a democrat >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >>> >???consider a private, unrecorded purchase. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> >???On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >>> >???wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ???rik, >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ???Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a >>> Remington, >>> >? ? ? ? ???I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles >>> away >>> > from >>> >? ? ? ? ???here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ???thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as >>> the >>> >? ? ? ? ???possibility of a second American Revolution......the true >>> Patriot >>> >? ? ? ? ???country boys are getting restless. >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ???elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: Re: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???[Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???Elle, >>> > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, >>> > I >>> > think >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the >>> real >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???thing. >>> > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 >>> > inches >>> > short, >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???but still legal). >>> > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All >>> that >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >>> > >>> > This guy, Massad >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school >>> for >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???firearms. >>> > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle >> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???a recording of someone racking a shell in a >>> > shotgun...that's >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???probably more my speed... >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mine. the only shotgun? that I could heft & hold >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >>> time >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???yet.... >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >>> a >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Elle, >>> > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???for longer range hunting. These were used as >>> sniper >>> > rifles >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???(1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >>> > Trouble >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to >>> deliver >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???quickly, which is why they were replaced by the >>> > M1 >>> > Garand >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. >>> > >>> > In a home >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???defense situation, it'll sure as heck get >>> somebody's >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty >>> sure >>> > of >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer >>> by >>> > the >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???bed or conceal on your belt, under your >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???jacket. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Mike & Rik, >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???thanks for clarifying.....it was the >>> 'A.C.P." >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???that did not compute. >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???How about a 30.06 bolt action military >>> issue >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???rifle. (think I got all the terms in the >>> right >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???order...) >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Weisner >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Michael D. Weisner >> > >>> > Subject: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to >>> > be >>> a >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Elle, >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???.45 = >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???caliber >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???ACP = Automatic >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Colt Pistol >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???I believe that the >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???phrase refers to the "stopping power" >>> > of >>> the >>> > .45 >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???caliber round.? It injures (or kills) >>> > by >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???hydrostatic shock.? The shooter's aim >>> need >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???not be precise to achieve the desired >>> > results >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???hence no need to fire a second >>> > time. >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???According to >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Wikipedia: >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???The result is one of the world's most >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???effective combat pistol cartridges, one >>> that >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???combines very good accuracy and >>> > stopping >>> > power >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???for use against human targets.[9] >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???The cartridge also has relatively low >>> muzzle >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???blast and flash, as well as moderate >>> recoil. >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???It's not a guy >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???thing but rather a gun thing, although >>> the >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???difference, in certain circles, is >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???moot. >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???You might be >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Glad to help out - >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Happy New Year, >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Mike >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle? Monday, >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???What does >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???45 >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???silly......mean? >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Is >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???this a guy thing??? >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???elle >>> > >>> > --- On >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???[Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???democrat >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" >>> > >>> > Date: >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Good evening All, >>> > >>> > Read this just now >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???in some comments on M/M's blog titled >>> "Who >>> > wants >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???to be a democrat" >>> > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???fell outa' my >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???chair!! >>> > >>> > ____________________________ >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???TigerLady said: >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She >>> has >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???her food prepared for her. She can eat >>> > whenever >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???she wants, 24/7/365. >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Her meals are provided at no cost to >>> her. >>> > She >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???visits the Dr. once a year for her >>> checkup, >>> > and >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???again during the year if any medical >>> needs >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???arise. For this she pays nothing, and >>> > nothing is >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???required of her. She lives in a nice >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???neighborhood in a house that is much >>> larger >>> > than >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???she needs, but she is not required to >>> > do >>> any >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone >>> else >>> > cleans >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???it up. >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???She has her choice of luxurious places >>> to >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???sleep. She receives these >>> > accommodations >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???absolutely free.. She is living like a >>> > queen, >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???and has absolutely no expenses >>> whatsoever. >>> > All >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???of her costs are picked up by others >>> > who >>> go >>> > out >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???and earn a living every day. >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???I was just thinking about all this, and >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???suddenly it hit me like a brick in the >>> head, >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???(my apology to the person who actually >>> wrote >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???this-I received it in an email) >>> > >>> > -- >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???shooting twice is >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???silly. >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent >>> virtue >>> > of >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???socialism is the equal sharing of misery >>> ....Winston >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???_______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is >>> the >>> > equal >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???_______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ? ? ? ? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >? ???mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >>> >???blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >>> misery >>> >???....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >???_______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> >???mailing >>> >???list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100112/58c010ab/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 16:39:05 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:39:05 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <189222.9672.qm@web111201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <400985d71001110433k252ed516je51676ff360d15b1@mail.gmail.com> <189222.9672.qm@web111201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001131339s9fb720ckd0b1dff8648e4de5@mail.gmail.com> Elle, I'm in Japan, headed for China today so I'm picking up news sporadically when I can with my new iTouch and free WiFi where I can find it (the JetLag club in Narita was great). Anyway, here's the best line from the Scott Brown debate - This race will be recalled for an occurrence in a recent TV debate when moderator David Gergen asked Brown about sitting in ?Ted Kennedy?s seat.? ?With all due respect,? he said, ? it is not Ted Kennedy?s seat, it is not the Democrats? seat, it is the people of Massachusetts? seat.? Perfect! Brad On 1/11/10, elle wrote: > Brad, > I forwarded this to friends who are organizing two Tea Parties on the No > Neck..the second and third ones...they were already in line for this guy & > have been contributing.....this is the group that was behind first-timer > Catherine Crabill (who the VA Repub Party would not support as SHE would not > support all their policies....)....she who almost unseated longtime seat > holder and local boy Al Pollard (she won half the districts by a landslide & > he barely squeaked through the others..tied one I believe...).......The next > race in two years will be of interest indeed.... > > elle > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Brad Haslett wrote: > > From: Brad Haslett > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown > To: "Letters to the Editor" > > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:33 AM > > The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass. Money is critical - please send > what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to > delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health > care. This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a > check). > > http://brownforussenate.com/ > > Brad > > -------------------- > > http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Wed Jan 13 18:44:18 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:44:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <400985d71001131339s9fb720ckd0b1dff8648e4de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4415.18925.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Brad, I happened o have heard that sound bite...the boy thinks fast on his feet.? He raised @ 1.3 mil in 24 hrs...average contrib was $75. elle --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Brad Haslett wrote: From: Brad Haslett Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 4:39 PM Elle, I'm in Japan, headed for China today so I'm picking up news sporadically when I can with my new iTouch and free WiFi where I can find it (the JetLag club in Narita was great).? Anyway, here's the best line from the Scott Brown debate - This race will be recalled for an occurrence in a recent TV debate when moderator David Gergen asked Brown about sitting in ?Ted Kennedy?s seat.? ?With all due respect,? he said, ? it is not Ted Kennedy?s seat, it is not the Democrats? seat, it is the people of Massachusetts? seat.? Perfect! Brad On 1/11/10, elle wrote: > Brad, > I forwarded this to friends who are organizing two Tea Parties on the No > Neck..the second and third ones...they were already in line for this guy & > have been contributing.....this is the group that was behind first-timer > Catherine Crabill (who the VA Repub Party would not support as SHE would not > support all their policies....)....she who almost? unseated longtime seat > holder and local boy Al Pollard (she won half the districts by a landslide & > he barely squeaked through the others..tied one I believe...).......The next > race in two years will be of interest indeed.... > > elle > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Brad Haslett wrote: > > From: Brad Haslett > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown > To: "Letters to the Editor" > > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:33 AM > > The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass.? Money is critical - please send > what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to > delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health > care.? This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a > check). > > http://brownforussenate.com/ > > Brad > > -------------------- > > http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100113/9d673003/attachment.html From elginalexander at erols.com Wed Jan 13 20:44:41 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (Elgin Alexander) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:44:41 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat References: <416868.65031.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just a little anecdote that underscores the best choice for a defense weapon. A number of years ago when I was first on the job, I had occasion to respond to a "burglary in progress" call during a midnight tour with a veteran officer. Following SOP, we check the doors to the warehouse and did, indeed, find one open. After quietly entering the building, my fellow officer immediately - and very loudly - proceeded to rack the 12 gauge he was carrying. Before I could even wonder what he was up to, two voices in the dark shouted out, "Don't shoot! Don't shoot! Don't shoot!" Later, he explained that even the most seasoned criminal won't go up against a shotgun. Ever since then, whenever anyone asked me what kind of weapon he or she should have for home defense, I always answered, "A shotgun - preferably a double barreled one as everyone on your side gets to live and everyone on the other side gets to die." That said, with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless they have been accurized, you'd be better off throwing the pistol at your opponent as the chances of hitting any part of what you are aiming at is somewhere between zero and none. Although my own personal choice, probably because I'm older than dirt and an aficionado of the Old West, is the 44 magnum revolver since revolvers are almost fool proof and the ammunition is compatible with my Marlin, when I am "out and about" I carry either a PPK or a Dectective Special. On a side note, a number of people I know who started out securing a weapon for self-defense, once they managed to get to a range, discovered that shooting was quite enjoyable and became enthusiasts. Elgin ----- Original Message ----- From: elle To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat There is a local group...may be NRA.... w/ a firing range...they have classes for women. Bears looking into. Thanx for all the info.....RW's down the road is the go-to place for all things w/triggers ... elle --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Brad Haslett wrote: From: Brad Haslett Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:38 AM Rik, Elle, et al, Don't overlook the lowly Glock. I've got a .40 cal and wish I had a 9mm because the ammo is so much cheaper, but all the cops went to .40 because of the extra stopping power. The Glock is simple and can be handled well by small hands. I gave Fan a basic checkout (she was trained by Chairman Mao on rifles) and she easily understood how to quickly "lock-n-load". Mine is a pre-Clinton era non clip-limited version (I'm guessing that law is still in effect) and holds 15 rounds. As I explained to Fan, if you haven't hit the perp on the 15th round, throw the gun at them and run. Elle, take Rik's advice and see what feels comfortable in your hand. A buddy of mine bought his wife a .38 special that I barely could hang on to - his wife didn't stand a chance. I like the Glocks because they have a big grip and are well balanced, even with a nearly empty clip. Sign-up for a basic shooting class at a local range and see what they recommend for your hands and style. Let freedom ring! Brad On 1/11/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Elle, > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or slug > loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a > good defensive round. > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a .45 > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. BUT, > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a much > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen and > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a word > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a great > match for someone with small hands. > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C > Ruger. > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are made > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought mine > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take down > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun shop > and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter case > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need to > go try some on. > > Rik > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons > wrote: > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, >> doesn't >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? >> >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of >> messing up... >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Elle, >>> >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. >>> >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm >>> >>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool >>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in >>> tow so the world will be safe. >>> >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. >>> > >>> > e. >>> > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner wrote: >>> > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: >>> > Rik >>> > Sandberg >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 >>> > AM >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who >>> > wants to be a democrat >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might >>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > rik, >>> > >>> > >>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a >>> Remington, >>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles >>> away >>> > from >>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. >>> > >>> > >>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders as >>> the >>> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true >>> Patriot >>> > country boys are getting restless. >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: Re: >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around >>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) But, >>> > I >>> > think >>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the >>> real >>> > thing. >>> > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 >>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 >>> > inches >>> > short, >>> > but still legal). >>> > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 >>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All >>> that >>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. >>> > >>> > This guy, Massad >>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a school >>> for >>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with >>> > firearms. >>> > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle >> > >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe >>> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a >>> > shotgun...that's >>> > probably more my speed... >>> > >>> > >>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend of >>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold >>> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it is >>> time >>> > yet.... >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be >>> a >>> > democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 >>> > for longer range hunting. These were used as >>> sniper >>> > rifles >>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. >>> > Trouble >>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to >>> deliver >>> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the >>> > M1 >>> > Garand >>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. >>> > >>> > In a home >>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get >>> somebody's >>> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm pretty >>> sure >>> > of >>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a drawer >>> by >>> > the >>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your >>> > jacket. >>> > >>> > Rik >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, >>> > elle >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Mike & Rik, >>> > >>> > >>> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the >>> 'A.C.P." >>> > that did not compute. >>> > >>> > >>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military >>> issue >>> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in the >>> right >>> > order...) >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. >>> > Weisner >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > Michael D. Weisner >> > >>> > Subject: >>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to >>> > be >>> a >>> > democrat >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > Date: >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Elle, >>> > >>> > .45 = >>> > caliber >>> > ACP = Automatic >>> > Colt Pistol >>> > >>> > I believe that the >>> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" >>> > of >>> the >>> > .45 >>> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) >>> > by >>> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim >>> need >>> > not be precise to achieve the desired >>> > results >>> > hence no need to fire a second >>> > time. >>> > >>> > According to >>> > Wikipedia: >>> > >>> > The result is one of the world's most >>> > effective combat pistol cartridges, one >>> that >>> > combines very good accuracy and >>> > stopping >>> > power >>> > for use against human targets.[9] >>> > The cartridge also has relatively low >>> muzzle >>> > blast and flash, as well as moderate >>> recoil. >>> > It's not a guy >>> > thing but rather a gun thing, although >>> the >>> > difference, in certain circles, is >>> > moot. >>> > >>> > You might be >>> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 >>> > >>> > Glad to help out - >>> > Happy New Year, >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > elle Monday, >>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > What does >>> > >>> > >>> > 45 >>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is >>> > silly......mean? >>> > >>> > >>> > Is >>> > this a guy thing??? >>> > >>> > >>> > elle >>> > >>> > --- On >>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: >>> > Rik Sandberg >>> > Subject: >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a >>> > democrat >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" >>> > >>> > Date: >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > Good evening All, >>> > >>> > Read this just now >>> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled >>> "Who >>> > wants >>> > to be a democrat" >>> > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout >>> > fell outa' my >>> > chair!! >>> > >>> > ____________________________ >>> > >>> > >>> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, >>> > TigerLady said: >>> > >>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. She >>> has >>> > her food prepared for her. She can eat >>> > whenever >>> > she wants, 24/7/365. >>> > Her meals are provided at no cost to >>> her. >>> > She >>> > visits the Dr. once a year for her >>> checkup, >>> > and >>> > again during the year if any medical >>> needs >>> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and >>> > nothing is >>> > required of her. She lives in a nice >>> > neighborhood in a house that is much >>> larger >>> > than >>> > she needs, but she is not required to >>> > do >>> any >>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone >>> else >>> > cleans >>> > it up. >>> > She has her choice of luxurious places >>> to >>> > sleep. She receives these >>> > accommodations >>> > absolutely free.. She is living like a >>> > queen, >>> > and has absolutely no expenses >>> whatsoever. >>> > All >>> > of her costs are picked up by others >>> > who >>> go >>> > out >>> > and earn a living every day. >>> > I was just thinking about all this, and >>> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in the >>> head, >>> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! >>> > (my apology to the person who actually >>> wrote >>> > this-I received it in an email) >>> > >>> > -- >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because >>> > shooting twice is >>> > silly. >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is >>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent >>> virtue >>> > of >>> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery >>> ....Winston >>> > Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment >>> > Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal >>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is >>> the >>> > equal >>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > -----Inline >>> > Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >>> misery >>> > ....Winston Churchill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette >>> > mailing >>> > list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> > >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100113/8579e72c/attachment-0001.html From elginalexander at erols.com Wed Jan 13 21:10:50 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (Elgin Alexander) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:10:50 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Recapping 2009 Message-ID: <80339E62741F4D2E9951EBF3D731F5DE@Xanthus> I thought the following e-mail I received would be of interest. Elgin Let's Recap "2009" (What a year!) 1. The American people elect a black president with a total of 142 days experience as a US Senator from the most politically corrupt state (city) in America whose governors have been ousted from office. The President's first official act is to order the close of Gitmo and make sure terrorists civil rights are not violated. (Honest mistake?) 2. The U.S. Congress rushes to confirm a black Attorney General, Eric Holder, whose law firm we later find out represents seventeen Gitmo Terrorists. (Another honest mistake?!) 3. The CIA Boss appointee, Leon Panetta, has absolutely no experience, has a daughter Linda, we find out, who is a true radical anti-American activist and a supporter of all the Anti-American regimes in the western hemisphere. (What's that about the "apple" and "the tree"?) 4. We got the second most corrupt American woman (Pelosi is #1) as Secretary of State; bought and paid for. (You can put lipstick on a pig, but it still stinks!) 5. We got a Tax Cheat for Treasury Secretary who did not properly file his own taxes for 12 years. (An honest oversight from an accountant and an economist!) 6. A Commerce Secretary nominee who withdrew due to corruption charges. (Another honest mistake???) 7. A Tax cheat nominee for Chief Performance Officer who withdrew under charges. (Hmmm,.yet another honest mistake?) 8. A Labor Secretary nominee who withdrew under charges of unethical conduct. (Ok, maybe this person was just plain stupid.) 9. A Secretary HHS nominee (Daschle) who withdrew under charges of cheating on his taxes. (I'm running out of excuses for these idiots!!) 10. Multiple appointments of former lobbyists after an absolute campaign statement that no lobbyists would be appointed. (Dear God, I am getting a headache!) All this occurred just during the first three weeks, but who's counting? America is being run by the modern-day Three Stooges ; Barry, Nancy, and Harry and they are still trying to define stimulus: "it's spending!!!" The Congress passes the $800,000,000,000 (that's $800 billion) pork-loaded spending bill where the government gives you a smidgen of your tax dollars ($13 per week), making you feel so good about yourself [stimulated], that you want to run out to Wal-Mart and buy a new Chinese-made HDTV and go home and watch Telemundo! Only with the Liberals... Pray for our country. Oh, and here's the good news: Obama took Air Force One to Denver to sign the stimulus package, wasting as much as 10,000 gallons of fuel OR 24 JOBS FOR ONE YEAR. Don't you just love hypocrites? Speaking of praying, Obama has now been president for eleven months and yet he and wife (first lady) Michelle, the Christian family they claim to be, have not attended church since the inauguration. I guess he must miss Reverend Wright! In these times 'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100113/fa2434b9/attachment.html From elginalexander at erols.com Wed Jan 13 21:33:18 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (Elgin Alexander) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:33:18 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Grip on Reality Message-ID: <05BE3BFE089246879CCF68EB4BBDE94A@Xanthus> LET ME SEE IF I GOT THIS RIGHT ..... IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR. IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY. IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT. IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED. IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN. IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED. IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT. IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET: A JOB, A DRIVERS LICENSE, SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, WELFARE, FOOD STAMPS, CREDIT CARDS, SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, FREE EDUCATION, FREE HEALTH CARE, A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT AND, IN MANY INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAVE A FIRM GRASP ON REALITY. Elgin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100113/1d91cb49/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Thu Jan 14 00:18:37 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:18:37 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <4415.18925.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <400985d71001131339s9fb720ckd0b1dff8648e4de5@mail.gmail.com> <4415.18925.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001132118s77b6cf7ct832cfdd585381fbf@mail.gmail.com> Interestingly, even Gergen said he got stuffed on that question. On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:44 PM, elle wrote: > Brad, > > I happened o have heard that sound bite...the boy thinks fast on his feet. > > He raised @ 1.3 mil in 24 hrs...average contrib was $75. > > elle > > > --- On *Wed, 1/13/10, Brad Haslett * wrote: > > > From: Brad Haslett > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 4:39 PM > > > Elle, > > I'm in Japan, headed for China today so I'm picking up news > sporadically when I can with my new iTouch and free WiFi where I can > find it (the JetLag club in Narita was great). Anyway, here's the > best line from the Scott Brown debate - > > This race will be recalled for an occurrence in a recent TV debate > when moderator David Gergen asked Brown about sitting in ?Ted > Kennedy?s seat.? ?With all due respect,? he said, ? it is not Ted > Kennedy?s seat, it is not the Democrats? seat, it is the people of > Massachusetts? seat.? > > Perfect! > > Brad > > On 1/11/10, elle > > wrote: > > Brad, > > I forwarded this to friends who are organizing two Tea Parties on the No > > Neck..the second and third ones...they were already in line for this guy > & > > have been contributing.....this is the group that was behind first-timer > > Catherine Crabill (who the VA Repub Party would not support as SHE would > not > > support all their policies....)....she who almost unseated longtime seat > > holder and local boy Al Pollard (she won half the districts by a > landslide & > > he barely squeaked through the others..tied one I believe...).......The > next > > race in two years will be of interest indeed.... > > > > elle > > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Brad Haslett > > wrote: > > > > From: Brad Haslett > > > > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown > > To: "Letters to the Editor" > > > > > > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:33 AM > > > > The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass. Money is critical - please send > > what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to > > delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health > > care. This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a > > check). > > > > http://brownforussenate.com/ > > > > Brad > > > > -------------------- > > > > > http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100113/ca9b5a00/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 01:05:43 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:05:43 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: References: <416868.65031.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001132205v159cf2bm4767c31f98953332@mail.gmail.com> Elgin, Elle, It's pretty much like any other tool. You have to buy the one that does the job you need. For just around the house I agree, a good shotgun like an 870 Remington (pump) or similar with a short barrel (smooth bore slug barrel 18.5 in) is probably the best. Got one myself. If you want your weapon with you at other times, that gun isn't so good. If one is going to get a pistol, he should practice enough so he knows he can hit what he is aiming at. It isn't as easy as it looks. That said, when I took my concealed carry course I had to fire at a range. 8 1/2" x 11" target at 7 yards. Now, a few days before that I had just been in a racing (sprint car) wreck. Got flipped pretty hard and screwed up my left shoulder and arm so they were sore as heck and not very strong. I had to fire 20 rounds, 10 shots both hand grip, 5 shots right single hand grip and 5 shots left single hand grip. I was shooting my brand new, right out of the box Bersa .45. I was still able to shoot 80% (16 hits) even though I could barely raise the gun high enough with my left hand to aim. So I don't know that I would say it would have been just as effective to throw the gun at the target. Rik On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Elgin Alexander wrote: > Just a little anecdote that underscores the best choice for a defense > weapon. A number of years ago when I was first on the job, I had occasion > to respond to a "burglary in progress" call during a midnight tour with a > veteran officer. Following SOP, we check the doors to the warehouse and > did, indeed, find one open. After quietly entering the building, my fellow > officer immediately - and *very loudly* - proceeded to rack the 12 gauge > he was carrying. Before I could even wonder what he was up to, two voices > in the dark shouted out, "Don't shoot! Don't shoot! Don't shoot!" Later, > he explained that even the most seasoned criminal won't go up against a > shotgun. Ever since then, whenever anyone asked me what kind of weapon he > or she should have for home defense, I always answered, "A shotgun - > preferably a double barreled one as everyone on your side gets to live and > everyone on the other side gets to die." > > That said, with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. > However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless > they have been accurized, you'd be better off throwing the pistol at your > opponent as the chances of hitting any part of what you are aiming at is > somewhere between zero and none. Although my own personal choice, probably > because I'm older than dirt and an aficionado of the Old West, is the 44 > magnum revolver since revolvers are almost fool proof and the ammunition is > compatible with my Marlin, when I am "out and about" I carry either a PPK or > a Dectective Special. > > On a side note, a number of people I know who started out securing a weapon > for self-defense, once they managed to get to a range, discovered that > shooting was quite enjoyable and became enthusiasts. > > Elgin > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* elle > *To:* SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:47 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > > There is a local group...may be NRA.... w/ a firing range...they have > classes for women. > Bears looking into. > > Thanx for all the info.....RW's down the road is the go-to place for all > things w/triggers ... > > elle > > > --- On *Tue, 1/12/10, Brad Haslett * wrote: > > > From: Brad Haslett > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:38 AM > > Rik, Elle, et al, > > Don't overlook the lowly Glock. I've got a .40 cal and wish I had a > 9mm because the ammo is so much cheaper, but all the cops went to .40 > because of the extra stopping power. The Glock is simple and can be > handled well by small hands. I gave Fan a basic checkout (she was > trained by Chairman Mao on rifles) and she easily understood how to > quickly "lock-n-load". Mine is a pre-Clinton era non clip-limited > version (I'm guessing that law is still in effect) and holds 15 > rounds. As I explained to Fan, if you haven't hit the perp on the 15th > round, throw the gun at them and run. Elle, take Rik's advice and see > what feels comfortable in your hand. A buddy of mine bought his wife > a .38 special that I barely could hang on to - his wife didn't stand a > chance. I like the Glocks because they have a big grip and are well > balanced, even with a nearly empty clip. Sign-up for a basic shooting > class at a local range and see what they recommend for your hands and > style. > > Let freedom ring! > > Brad > > On 1/11/10, Rik Sandberg > > wrote: > > Elle, > > > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get buckshot or > slug > > loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 shell makes a > > good defensive round. > > > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you can use a > .45 > > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this pistol too. > BUT, > > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) through a > much > > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, through the > > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I have seen > and > > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is not a > word > > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably not a > great > > match for someone with small hands. > > > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and SR9 or SR9C > > Ruger. > > > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced than most > > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These guns are > made > > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I bought > mine > > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these weapons. I > > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned flawlessly. I > > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to take > down > > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and are of a > > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down to a gun > shop > > and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good in your > > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in mind a P345 > > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to when they > > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the counter > case > > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night on the > > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton of > > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you kinda need > to > > go try some on. > > > > Rik > > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons > > > >wrote: > > > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all (though I am > >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to ask, > >> doesn't > >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in it? > >> > >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up with a > >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much chance of > >> messing up... > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett > > wrote: > >> > >>> Elle, > >>> > >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is limited > >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. > >>> > >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm > >>> > >>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing and > >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz club > >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was supposed to > >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want to fool > >>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have laptop in > >>> tow so the world will be safe. > >>> > >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! > >>> > >>> Brad > >>> > >>> On 1/8/10, elle > > wrote: > >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > >>> > > >>> > e. > >>> > > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner > > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner > > > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > >>> > > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik > >>> > Sandberg > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > >>> > AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > >>> > wants to be a democrat > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > >>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I tried....a > >>> Remington, > >>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about 5 miles > >>> away > >>> > from > >>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & fishing land. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about intruders > as > >>> the > >>> > possibility of a second American Revolution......the true > >>> Patriot > >>> > country boys are getting restless. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg > > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > > > >>> > Subject: Re: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > >>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being cycled. :-) > But, > >>> > I > >>> > think > >>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise with the > >>> real > >>> > thing. > >>> > > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > >>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel (about 10 > >>> > inches > >>> > short, > >>> > but still legal). > >>> > > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > >>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) size. All > >>> that > >>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > >>> > > >>> > This guy, Massad > >>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now runs a > school > >>> for > >>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense with > >>> > firearms. > >>> > > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle < > ragdollelle at yahoo.com > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in mind...maybe > >>> > a recording of someone racking a shell in a > >>> > shotgun...that's > >>> > probably more my speed... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a friend > of > >>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could heft & hold > >>> > was a junior sized one....haven't decided if it > is > >>> time > >>> > yet.... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > > > >>> > > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to > be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > >>> > for longer range hunting. These were used as > >>> sniper > >>> > rifles > >>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through Vietnam. > >>> > Trouble > >>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is hard to > >>> deliver > >>> > quickly, which is why they were replaced by the > >>> > M1 > >>> > Garand > >>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > >>> > > >>> > In a home > >>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck get > >>> somebody's > >>> > attention if you stick in their nose, I'm > pretty > >>> sure > >>> > of > >>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep in a > drawer > >>> by > >>> > the > >>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under your > >>> > jacket. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > >>> > elle > > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Mike & Rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for clarifying.....it was the > >>> 'A.C.P." > >>> > that did not compute. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action military > >>> issue > >>> > rifle. (think I got all the terms in > the > >>> right > >>> > order...) > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > >>> > Weisner > > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Michael D. Weisner < > mweisner at ebsmed.com > >>> > > >>> > Subject: > >>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to > >>> > be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:26 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > .45 = > >>> > caliber > >>> > ACP = Automatic > >>> > Colt Pistol > >>> > > >>> > I believe that the > >>> > phrase refers to the "stopping power" > >>> > of > >>> the > >>> > .45 > >>> > caliber round. It injures (or kills) > >>> > by > >>> > hydrostatic shock. The shooter's aim > >>> need > >>> > not be precise to achieve the desired > >>> > results > >>> > hence no need to fire a second > >>> > time. > >>> > > >>> > According to > >>> > Wikipedia: > >>> > > >>> > The result is one of the world's most > >>> > effective combat pistol cartridges, > one > >>> that > >>> > combines very good accuracy and > >>> > stopping > >>> > power > >>> > for use against human targets.[9] > >>> > The cartridge also has relatively low > >>> muzzle > >>> > blast and flash, as well as moderate > >>> recoil. > >>> > It's not a guy > >>> > thing but rather a gun thing, > although > >>> the > >>> > difference, in certain circles, is > >>> > moot. > >>> > > >>> > You might be > >>> > interested (or not) in the T-shirt: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > >>> > > >>> > Glad to help out - > >>> > Happy New Year, > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > elle Monday, > >>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > What does > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > 45 > >>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting twice is > >>> > silly......mean? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Is > >>> > this a guy thing??? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > --- On > >>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > >>> > > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik Sandberg > > > >>> > Subject: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be > a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > >>> > > > > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:14 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Good evening All, > >>> > > >>> > Read this just now > >>> > in some comments on M/M's blog titled > >>> "Who > >>> > wants > >>> > to be a democrat" > >>> > > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > >>> > fell outa' my > >>> > chair!! > >>> > > >>> > ____________________________ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am, > >>> > TigerLady said: > >>> > > >>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours a day. > She > >>> has > >>> > her food prepared for her. She can > eat > >>> > whenever > >>> > she wants, 24/7/365. > >>> > Her meals are provided at no cost to > >>> her. > >>> > She > >>> > visits the Dr. once a year for her > >>> checkup, > >>> > and > >>> > again during the year if any medical > >>> needs > >>> > arise. For this she pays nothing, and > >>> > nothing is > >>> > required of her. She lives in a nice > >>> > neighborhood in a house that is much > >>> larger > >>> > than > >>> > she needs, but she is not required to > >>> > do > >>> any > >>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, someone > >>> else > >>> > cleans > >>> > it up. > >>> > She has her choice of luxurious > places > >>> to > >>> > sleep. She receives these > >>> > accommodations > >>> > absolutely free.. She is living like > a > >>> > queen, > >>> > and has absolutely no expenses > >>> whatsoever. > >>> > All > >>> > of her costs are picked up by others > >>> > who > >>> go > >>> > out > >>> > and earn a living every day. > >>> > I was just thinking about all this, > and > >>> > suddenly it hit me like a brick in > the > >>> head, > >>> > Holy crap! My cat is a democrat! > >>> > (my apology to the person who > actually > >>> wrote > >>> > this-I received it in an email) > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > >>> > shooting twice is > >>> > silly. > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is > >>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent > >>> virtue > >>> > of > >>> > socialism is the equal sharing of misery > >>> ....Winston > >>> > Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > >>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is > >>> the > >>> > equal > >>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline > >>> > Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > >>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of > >>> misery > >>> > ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing > >>> > list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > > Churchill > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/ef5ad4c7/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 14 07:29:22 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:29:22 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued Message-ID: <91186826A4B74B6CB94ABA2EB5537286@YOURB88038198E> Elgin said, "with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless they have been accurized" Actually regarding pistols with kick, a great bit of accuracy is holding them correctly to account for recoil. A good instructor can teach how to hold the bigger caliber pistols thru the shot to give considerable accuracy. It is that last minute movement that controls the accuracy. And when you are using pistols you are not talking about long distance. Really, 100 foot max. The bigger calibers use shock of impact as the stopping tool. Two hands are correctly used. If you shoot right handed, left hand is on the right hand is to maintain accuracy. Have an experience instructor give you lessons. Most people do not need the FBI training in shooting while rolling over and over. Just need to get that first shot off in correct direction. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/d7687751/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 14 07:37:39 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:37:39 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] O'Malley and Pelosi Message-ID: <7344733E9B2B4F9F8B62D5B541CA6EAD@YOURB88038198E> Father O'Malley rose from his bed. It was a fine spring day in his new Washington DC parish. He walked to the window of his bedroom to get a deep breath of air and to see the beautiful day outside. He then noticed there was a jackass lying dead in the middle of his front lawn. He promptly called the US House of Representatives for assistance. The conversation went like this: "Good morning. This is speaker Pelosi. How might I help you?" "And the best of the day te yerself. This is Father O'Malley at St.Brigid's. There's a jackass lying dead in me front lawn. Would ye be so kind as to send a couple o' yer lads to take care of the matter?" Speaker Pelosi, considering herself to be quite a wit, replied with a smirk, "Well now father, it was always my impression that you people took care of last rites!" There was dead silence on the line for a long moment. Father O'Malley then replied: "Aye, that's certainly true, but we are also obliged to first notify the next of kin." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/bbf40f8c/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 09:52:29 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:52:29 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat In-Reply-To: References: <416868.65031.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001140652j3560a176i22f0810a33633a3e@mail.gmail.com> Elgin, Learned that sound well as a kid. I coon hunted until the flying bug took over at 15. My last coon hound was a Walker with great legs and a good "tree bark" but I never broke her from chasing deer, and on more than one occasion, left my coat on the trail and came back to retrieve her in the morning. Several times her trail crossed the path of a farmers back door and the sound of a pump-action shotgun gets your attention at midnight. They knew "the game" and usually a shout of "I'm Louis Haslett's boy" was enough to diffuse the situation. Sometimes the reply would be, "I thought you were back in VietNam", and I'd have to explain that I was the younger "sane and rationale" son. Flying is a lot easier than chasing raccoons until 4AM. My hunting career is long over unless you count reeking havoc with the backyard squirrel population with a pellet gun as "hunting". I still hunt deer - with a car. Rats with antlers I say - they should make that season last all year long. I'm in Shanghai tonight hunting a good nights sleep. Brad On 1/13/10, Elgin Alexander wrote: > Just a little anecdote that underscores the best choice for a defense > weapon. A number of years ago when I was first on the job, I had occasion > to respond to a "burglary in progress" call during a midnight tour with a > veteran officer. Following SOP, we check the doors to the warehouse and > did, indeed, find one open. After quietly entering the building, my fellow > officer immediately - and very loudly - proceeded to rack the 12 gauge he > was carrying. Before I could even wonder what he was up to, two voices in > the dark shouted out, "Don't shoot! Don't shoot! Don't shoot!" Later, he > explained that even the most seasoned criminal won't go up against a > shotgun. Ever since then, whenever anyone asked me what kind of weapon he > or she should have for home defense, I always answered, "A shotgun - > preferably a double barreled one as everyone on your side gets to live and > everyone on the other side gets to die." > > That said, with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. > However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless > they have been accurized, you'd be better off throwing the pistol at your > opponent as the chances of hitting any part of what you are aiming at is > somewhere between zero and none. Although my own personal choice, probably > because I'm older than dirt and an aficionado of the Old West, is the 44 > magnum revolver since revolvers are almost fool proof and the ammunition is > compatible with my Marlin, when I am "out and about" I carry either a PPK or > a Dectective Special. > > On a side note, a number of people I know who started out securing a weapon > for self-defense, once they managed to get to a range, discovered that > shooting was quite enjoyable and became enthusiasts. > > Elgin > ----- Original Message ----- > From: elle > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > > > There is a local group...may be NRA.... w/ a firing range...they > have classes for women. > Bears looking into. > > > Thanx for all the info.....RW's down the road is the go-to place for > all things w/triggers ... > > > elle > > > --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Brad Haslett wrote: > > > From: Brad Haslett > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:38 AM > > > Rik, Elle, et al, > > Don't overlook the lowly Glock. I've got a .40 cal and wish I had > a > 9mm because the ammo is so much cheaper, but all the cops went to > .40 > because of the extra stopping power. The Glock is simple and can > be > handled well by small hands. I gave Fan a basic checkout (she was > trained by Chairman Mao on rifles) and she easily understood how > to > quickly "lock-n-load". Mine is a pre-Clinton era non clip-limited > version (I'm guessing that law is still in effect) and holds 15 > rounds. As I explained to Fan, if you haven't hit the perp on the > 15th > round, throw the gun at them and run. Elle, take Rik's advice and > see > what feels comfortable in your hand. A buddy of mine bought his > wife > a .38 special that I barely could hang on to - his wife didn't > stand a > chance. I like the Glocks because they have a big grip and are > well > balanced, even with a nearly empty clip. Sign-up for a basic > shooting > class at a local range and see what they recommend for your hands > and > style. > > Let freedom ring! > > Brad > > On 1/11/10, Rik Sandberg wrote: > > Elle, > > > > No law against using a shot shells in a pistol. You can get > buckshot or slug > > loads in .410, however, this reviewer doesn't feel the .410 > shell makes a > > good defensive round. > > > > http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm > > > > That said, and I think that reviewer would agree with me, you > can use a .45 > > colt round, which is an excellent defensive round, in this > pistol too. BUT, > > you could also shoot .45 colt rounds (these are not .45 acp) > through a much > > smaller and lighter gun than this. I have never met you but, > through the > > years I have come to understand that you are fairly petite. I > have seen and > > handled the Judge, both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch versions, petite is > not a word > > one would use to describe it. It's a darn big pistol. Probably > not a great > > match for someone with small hands. > > > > If a handgun is on your list maybe look at something like and > SR9 or SR9C > > Ruger. > > > > http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9/index.html?r=y > > > > I mention Ruger because I find they are more reasonably priced > than most > > American made brands but still a very rugged well-made firearm. > > > > I personally have a Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact .45ACP. These > guns are made > > in Argentina, but I read literally hundreds of reviews before I > bought mine > > and no one had anything but positive things to say about these > weapons. I > > haven't fired it a lot, but what I have, it has functioned > flawlessly. I > > might add that it just may be the simplest gun I've ever seen to > take down > > and reassemble for cleaning. They are also available in 9MM and > are of a > > size and weight that would be more fitting for a smaller person. > > > > Probably the best recommendation I could make is to go on down > to a gun shop > > and handle some of these things. Get a feel for what feels good > in your > > hand. When I was looking for a carry gun, I originally had in > mind a P345 > > Ruger in .45 ACP. Those were on back order and no promise as to > when they > > might be available again. The Bersa I spoke of above was in the > counter case > > and it fit my hand like it was made for it. After a long night > on the > > internet reading reviews, I owned it the next day. There's a ton > of > > different shapes, sizes and weights of pistols out there, you > kinda need to > > go try some on. > > > > Rik > > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Herb Parsons > > wrote: > > > >> It's been a long time since I've messed with guns at all > (though I am > >> considering getting a CHL and handgun this year); but I have to > ask, > >> doesn't > >> the length of the barrel preclude legally using .410 shells in > it? > >> > >> Other than that, my response is "cool". I can see it loaded up > with a > >> .410,.45,.410,.45,.45 . I think in case of trouble, not much > chance of > >> messing up... > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Brad Haslett > wrote: > >> > >>> Elle, > >>> > >>> Sorry if this has already been covered - my computer time is > limited > >>> so I`m just skimming `da list`. > >>> > >>> http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm > >>> > >>> Fills a lot of squares. I`m headed out the door for Beijing > and > >>> Shanghai and hope to meet-up with Slim`s friend at the jazz > club > >>> there. Travelling without computer this trip because I was > supposed to > >>> move on commercial airline from Japan to China and didn`t want > to fool > >>> with it - taking company plane instead. Next time I`ll have > laptop in > >>> tow so the world will be safe. > >>> > >>> Keep the States together for me until I get back! > >>> > >>> Brad > >>> > >>> On 1/8/10, elle wrote: > >>> > We'll meet behind the outhouse. > >>> > > >>> > e. > >>> > > >>> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Michael D. Weisner > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > From: Michael D. Weisner > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:36 AM > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Now that you have discussed it on a public (Google > >>> > indexed) forum, how private can it be?? > >>> > > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik > >>> > Sandberg > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 > >>> > AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > >>> > wants to be a democrat > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Thinking in terms of societal unrest, one might > >>> > consider a private, unrecorded purchase. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM, elle > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yes, that was a junior sized shotgun that I > tried....a > >>> Remington, > >>> > I believe. There is a sporting/gun shop only about > 5 miles > >>> away > >>> > from > >>> > here....as I live in the thick of hunting & > fishing land. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for the link...I'm not so concerned about > intruders as > >>> the > >>> > possibility of a second American > Revolution......the true > >>> Patriot > >>> > country boys are getting restless. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rik Sandberg > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > >>> > Subject: Re: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:27 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Not too many things will turn an intruder around > >>> > quicker than the sound of a shotgun being > cycled. :-) But, > >>> > I > >>> > think > >>> > I'd really want to actually be making the noise > with the > >>> real > >>> > thing. > >>> > > >>> > Personally, my H.D. shot gun is an 870 Remington 3 > >>> > inch magnum 12 ga. with an 18.5 inch barrel > (about 10 > >>> > inches > >>> > short, > >>> > but still legal). > >>> > > >>> > For a woman, many experts recommend a 20 > >>> > gauge in the junior (they don't call it ladies) > size. All > >>> that > >>> > really means is the stock is a bit shorter. > >>> > > >>> > This guy, Massad > >>> > Ayoob is a 20 odd year police veteran and now > runs a school > >>> for > >>> > folks that want to learn about home/self defense > with > >>> > firearms. > >>> > > >>> > http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob121.html > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:17 PM, elle > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Yea...it's a bit more than I had in > mind...maybe > >>> > a recording of someone racking a shell > in a > >>> > shotgun...that's > >>> > probably more my speed... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Actually, I have gone out looking wiht a > friend of > >>> > mine. the only shotgun that I could > heft & hold > >>> > was a junior sized one....haven't > decided if it is > >>> time > >>> > yet.... > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Rik Sandberg > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Rik Sandberg > >>> > > >>> > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > wants to be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:37 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > Nothing wrong with a bolt action 30.06 > >>> > for longer range hunting. These were > used as > >>> sniper > >>> > rifles > >>> > (1000 yd accuracy) from WW2 up through > Vietnam. > >>> > Trouble > >>> > with a bolt gun is a second shot is > hard to > >>> deliver > >>> > quickly, which is why they were > replaced by the > >>> > M1 > >>> > Garand > >>> > and M1 carbine which were semi-auto. > >>> > > >>> > In a home > >>> > defense situation, it'll sure as heck > get > >>> somebody's > >>> > attention if you stick in their nose, > I'm pretty > >>> sure > >>> > of > >>> > that. But it's a little tough to keep > in a drawer > >>> by > >>> > the > >>> > bed or conceal on your belt, under > your > >>> > jacket. > >>> > > >>> > Rik > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:30 PM, > >>> > elle > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Mike & Rik, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > thanks for clarifying.....it > was the > >>> 'A.C.P." > >>> > that did not compute. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > How about a 30.06 bolt action > military > >>> issue > >>> > rifle. (think I got all the > terms in the > >>> right > >>> > order...) > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael D. > >>> > Weisner > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Michael D. Weisner > >>> > > >>> > Subject: > >>> > Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > wants to > >>> > be > >>> a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, > 8:26 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Elle, > >>> > > >>> > .45 = > >>> > caliber > >>> > ACP = Automatic > >>> > Colt Pistol > >>> > > >>> > I believe that the > >>> > phrase refers to the > "stopping power" > >>> > of > >>> the > >>> > .45 > >>> > caliber round. It injures > (or kills) > >>> > by > >>> > hydrostatic shock. The > shooter's aim > >>> need > >>> > not be precise to achieve > the desired > >>> > results > >>> > hence no need to fire a > second > >>> > time. > >>> > > >>> > According to > >>> > Wikipedia: > >>> > > >>> > The result is one of the > world's most > >>> > effective combat pistol > cartridges, one > >>> that > >>> > combines very good accuracy > and > >>> > stopping > >>> > power > >>> > for use against human > targets.[9] > >>> > The cartridge also has > relatively low > >>> muzzle > >>> > blast and flash, as well as > moderate > >>> recoil. > >>> > It's not a guy > >>> > thing but rather a gun > thing, although > >>> the > >>> > difference, in certain > circles, is > >>> > moot. > >>> > > >>> > You might be > >>> > interested (or not) in the > T-shirt: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > http://www.zazzle.com/because_shooting_twice_is_silly_tshirt-235375938142186348 > >>> > > >>> > Glad to help out - > >>> > Happy New Year, > >>> > Mike > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > elle Monday, > >>> > January 04, 2010 7:42 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > What does > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > 45 > >>> > A.C.P. ? Because shooting > twice is > >>> > silly......mean? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Is > >>> > this a guy thing??? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > elle > >>> > > >>> > --- On > >>> > Mon, 1/4/10, Rik Sandberg > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: > >>> > Rik Sandberg > > >>> > Subject: > >>> > [Swiftwater Gazette] Who > wants to be a > >>> > democrat > >>> > To: "Swiftwater Gazette List" > >>> > > >>> > Date: > >>> > Monday, January 4, 2010, > 7:14 PM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Good evening All, > >>> > > >>> > Read this just now > >>> > in some comments on M/M's > blog titled > >>> "Who > >>> > wants > >>> > to be a democrat" > >>> > > >>> > What a HOOT!! I 'bout > >>> > fell outa' my > >>> > chair!! > >>> > > >>> > ____________________________ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On January 4th, 2010 at > 10:21 am, > >>> > TigerLady said: > >>> > > >>> > My cat sleeps about 20 hours > a day. She > >>> has > >>> > her food prepared for her. > She can eat > >>> > whenever > >>> > she wants, 24/7/365. > >>> > Her meals are provided at no > cost to > >>> her. > >>> > She > >>> > visits the Dr. once a year > for her > >>> checkup, > >>> > and > >>> > again during the year if any > medical > >>> needs > >>> > arise. For this she pays > nothing, and > >>> > nothing is > >>> > required of her. She lives > in a nice > >>> > neighborhood in a house that > is much > >>> larger > >>> > than > >>> > she needs, but she is not > required to > >>> > do > >>> any > >>> > upkeep. If she makes a mess, > someone > >>> else > >>> > cleans > >>> > it up. > >>> > She has her choice of > luxurious places > >>> to > >>> > sleep. She receives these > >>> > accommodations > >>> > absolutely free.. She is > living like a > >>> > queen, > >>> > and has absolutely no > expenses > >>> whatsoever. > >>> > All > >>> > of her costs are picked up > by others > >>> > who > >>> go > >>> > out > >>> > and earn a living every day. > >>> > I was just thinking about > all this, and > >>> > suddenly it hit me like a > brick in the > >>> head, > >>> > Holy crap! My cat is a > democrat! > >>> > (my apology to the person > who actually > >>> wrote > >>> > this-I received it in an > email) > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > 45 A.C.P. ? Because > >>> > shooting twice is > >>> > silly. > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is > >>> > the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent > >>> virtue > >>> > of > >>> > socialism is the equal sharing of > misery > >>> ....Winston > >>> > Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment > >>> > Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal > >>> > sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of > socialism is > >>> the > >>> > equal > >>> > sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline > >>> > Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > >>> > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal > sharing of > >>> misery > >>> > ....Winston Churchill > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette > >>> > mailing > >>> > list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >>> > >>> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > blessings; the > > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery > ....Winston > > Churchill > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:52:23 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:52:23 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001132118s77b6cf7ct832cfdd585381fbf@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001131339s9fb720ckd0b1dff8648e4de5@mail.gmail.com> <4415.18925.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5f889a891001132118s77b6cf7ct832cfdd585381fbf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001140752wc9e0f2bx7fadf8249ed491fa@mail.gmail.com> Herb, Elle, A picture (video) is worth a thousand words - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJEEQHOnI2Q&feature=player_embedded Brown is another candidate that the GOP ignored and the Tea Party got behind. I really like this guy. He's good for another round as soon as I get home. Brad On 1/13/10, Herb Parsons wrote: > Interestingly, even Gergen said he got stuffed on that question. > > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:44 PM, elle wrote: > >> Brad, >> >> I happened o have heard that sound bite...the boy thinks fast on his feet. >> >> He raised @ 1.3 mil in 24 hrs...average contrib was $75. >> >> elle >> >> >> --- On *Wed, 1/13/10, Brad Haslett * wrote: >> >> >> From: Brad Haslett >> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown >> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 4:39 PM >> >> >> Elle, >> >> I'm in Japan, headed for China today so I'm picking up news >> sporadically when I can with my new iTouch and free WiFi where I can >> find it (the JetLag club in Narita was great). Anyway, here's the >> best line from the Scott Brown debate - >> >> This race will be recalled for an occurrence in a recent TV debate >> when moderator David Gergen asked Brown about sitting in ?Ted >> Kennedy?s seat.? ?With all due respect,? he said, ? it is not Ted >> Kennedy?s seat, it is not the Democrats? seat, it is the people of >> Massachusetts? seat.? >> >> Perfect! >> >> Brad >> >> On 1/11/10, elle >> > >> wrote: >> > Brad, >> > I forwarded this to friends who are organizing two Tea Parties on the No >> > Neck..the second and third ones...they were already in line for this guy >> & >> > have been contributing.....this is the group that was behind first-timer >> > Catherine Crabill (who the VA Repub Party would not support as SHE would >> not >> > support all their policies....)....she who almost unseated longtime >> > seat >> > holder and local boy Al Pollard (she won half the districts by a >> landslide & >> > he barely squeaked through the others..tied one I believe...).......The >> next >> > race in two years will be of interest indeed.... >> > >> > elle >> > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Brad Haslett >> > > >> wrote: >> > >> > From: Brad Haslett >> > >> > >> > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown >> > To: "Letters to the Editor" >> > >> > >> > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:33 AM >> > >> > The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass. Money is critical - please send >> > what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to >> > delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health >> > care. This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a >> > check). >> > >> > http://brownforussenate.com/ >> > >> > Brad >> > >> > -------------------- >> > >> > >> http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> > >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > From hparsons at parsonsys.com Thu Jan 14 12:52:10 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:52:10 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown In-Reply-To: <400985d71001140752wc9e0f2bx7fadf8249ed491fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001131339s9fb720ckd0b1dff8648e4de5@mail.gmail.com> <4415.18925.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5f889a891001132118s77b6cf7ct832cfdd585381fbf@mail.gmail.com> <400985d71001140752wc9e0f2bx7fadf8249ed491fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001140952t78063ae1s7e90612fd63f7bf4@mail.gmail.com> I'm cautiously optimistic about his chances at this point. Any truth to the rumor that Pelosi has demanded to see his Cosmo poses for "closer inspection"? :) On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > Herb, Elle, > > A picture (video) is worth a thousand words - > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJEEQHOnI2Q&feature=player_embedded > > Brown is another candidate that the GOP ignored and the Tea Party got > behind. > > I really like this guy. He's good for another round as soon as I get home. > > Brad > > On 1/13/10, Herb Parsons wrote: > > Interestingly, even Gergen said he got stuffed on that question. > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:44 PM, elle wrote: > > > >> Brad, > >> > >> I happened o have heard that sound bite...the boy thinks fast on his > feet. > >> > >> He raised @ 1.3 mil in 24 hrs...average contrib was $75. > >> > >> elle > >> > >> > >> --- On *Wed, 1/13/10, Brad Haslett * wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Brad Haslett > >> Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown > >> To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 4:39 PM > >> > >> > >> Elle, > >> > >> I'm in Japan, headed for China today so I'm picking up news > >> sporadically when I can with my new iTouch and free WiFi where I can > >> find it (the JetLag club in Narita was great). Anyway, here's the > >> best line from the Scott Brown debate - > >> > >> This race will be recalled for an occurrence in a recent TV debate > >> when moderator David Gergen asked Brown about sitting in ?Ted > >> Kennedy?s seat.? ?With all due respect,? he said, ? it is not Ted > >> Kennedy?s seat, it is not the Democrats? seat, it is the people of > >> Massachusetts? seat.? > >> > >> Perfect! > >> > >> Brad > >> > >> On 1/11/10, elle > >> > > >> wrote: > >> > Brad, > >> > I forwarded this to friends who are organizing two Tea Parties on the > No > >> > Neck..the second and third ones...they were already in line for this > guy > >> & > >> > have been contributing.....this is the group that was behind > first-timer > >> > Catherine Crabill (who the VA Repub Party would not support as SHE > would > >> not > >> > support all their policies....)....she who almost unseated longtime > >> > seat > >> > holder and local boy Al Pollard (she won half the districts by a > >> landslide & > >> > he barely squeaked through the others..tied one I > believe...).......The > >> next > >> > race in two years will be of interest indeed.... > >> > > >> > elle > >> > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Brad Haslett > >> > > > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > From: Brad Haslett > >> > > >> > > >> > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown > >> > To: "Letters to the Editor" > >> > http://mc/compose?to=swiftwatergazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com> > >> > > >> > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:33 AM > >> > > >> > The polls have Brown up by 1 in Mass. Money is critical - please send > >> > what you can afford. As you probably have heard, the Dems plan to > >> > delay his certification if he wins so he can't vote against health > >> > care. This is not democracy at its finest. Send a message (and a > >> > check). > >> > > >> > http://brownforussenate.com/ > >> > > >> > Brad > >> > > >> > -------------------- > >> > > >> > > >> > http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/toss-up-in-massachusetts.html > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com< > http://mc/compose?to=SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com> > >> > > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com< > http://mc/compose?to=SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com> > >> > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/c3be70eb/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 14 13:17:58 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:17:58 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Obama tries new TSA securtiy procedure!!! Message-ID: See the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ajNpR6bmes Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/d50ac788/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 14:00:59 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:00:59 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Obama tries new TSA securtiy procedure!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6634e19e1001141100o2f1ce9d8n6bf6ef2348badaa0@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Ridiculous as it seems there may be a bit of truth there. The other day, someone suggested a helping of bacon before boarding. Perhaps both measures could be employed to insure effectiveness. Rik On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > See the video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ajNpR6bmes > > Ed K > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/aa3e4612/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Thu Jan 14 15:04:56 2010 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:04:56 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Haiti Message-ID: <4B4F78E8.4000805@effros.com> The sister of the former Prime Minister of Haiti is a personal friend. She lives in Florida, her brother lives just outside Port-au-Prince, and currently has 23 people taking turns sleeping in 3 cars in the yard. Yesterday they had neither food nor water. Things look a little better today, judging from the following email: Thank you for your prayers. My brother and my nephews were able to reach their business at 5:00am today and got plenty of food and water for themselves and the family members staying with them. They are now making more trips to supply the community around their house. He told me that the people are wonderful and always give water and food first to their children, the teenagers always want to give their share to their mothers. My brother asked that money be sent to the RED CROSS which is well organized and doing a great job in Haiti. My family is in great spirit. Considering that we have about 400 members of our family in Haiti, brothers and sisters their children and grandchildren, Aunts and uncles, their children and grand children, and great grandchildren, we feel blessed that only my uncle Joe (confirmed dead) and my cousin Yves (still haven't found his body) are the only ones not with us. My brother asked us to go about our daily routine and to continue praying for Haiti, and to send whatever money we can to the RED CROSS. So I am off to the Lowe Art Museum. Love and Peace Mona -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/ed787ede/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 14 17:37:15 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:37:15 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Haiti Message-ID: Bill, Thank you for the report. Here in Greenville, SC, we also get inside information. Here in the evangelical south, a local church maintains a mission and church building in Haiti. It seems that a group of 12 of their group flew out of Haiti about 12 hours before the quake. They have apparently heard of the devastation from the couple that they left behind to maintain the church. They promptly reported to the local talk radio this morning. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/3bdb4b5a/attachment-0001.html From elginalexander at erols.com Thu Jan 14 18:38:52 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (Elgin Alexander) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:38:52 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued References: <91186826A4B74B6CB94ABA2EB5537286@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <3647C90222FE496AAF5D166395598F1B@Xanthus> Ed, True, however, despite the fact that 100 feet doesn't seem as though it is a great distance, for the standard 45 (which has a very sloppy action), it is. I've seen guys who have hit a "silhouette" at 50 feet with a S&W 38 or a Glock 9mm unable to do so with a military issue Colt 45. As to your advice to "have an experienced instructor give you lessons," I couldn't agree more. Elgin ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Kroposki To: Swift Water Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:29 AM Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued Elgin said, "with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless they have been accurized" Actually regarding pistols with kick, a great bit of accuracy is holding them correctly to account for recoil. A good instructor can teach how to hold the bigger caliber pistols thru the shot to give considerable accuracy. It is that last minute movement that controls the accuracy. And when you are using pistols you are not talking about long distance. Really, 100 foot max. The bigger calibers use shock of impact as the stopping tool. Two hands are correctly used. If you shoot right handed, left hand is on the right hand is to maintain accuracy. Have an experience instructor give you lessons. Most people do not need the FBI training in shooting while rolling over and over. Just need to get that first shot off in correct direction. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/b58ece72/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 14 19:18:06 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:18:06 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued Message-ID: Elgin, Maybe that is why I stuck to the 357. I can hit the target. And with the personal protection loads, have impact. Actually I think that my range target is more like 50 yards. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/34e57c22/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Jan 14 19:23:30 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:23:30 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Interesting interview Message-ID: <56C604F0AB214901A710FE286C6C3EC2@YOURB88038198E> I generally do not follow Glen Beck closely, but I noticed he interviewed Marco Rubio about the Florida senatorial election. Here is the interview. Rubio's replies to Beck are a pleasant read in today's world: Ed K ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Glenn Beck: Battle in Florida: Rubio v. Crist January 14, 2010 - 13:20 ET Learn more about Marco Rubio Glenn: You know, I really do believe that the secret to life is just remembering who you are, not who you've allowed yourself to become. With all the problems that we have in the world, remembering who we are, remembering where we came from, remembering what the truth is, remembering why the Pilgrim's came here in the first place and why so many fought and died, what they fought and died for, everything will solve itself. I know that sounds simple, but it is, because if you remember who you truly are, you truly are someone of honor and integrity, you may have allowed yourself to become something different, but when you remember, then you have a choice. Am I going to still be this person I've allowed myself to become or am I going to change myself and when we change ourselves, we'll change the world and the country will right itself. It is part of a -- it is part of what I think the tea party movement is all about. The 9-12 project is that. It's the values and the principles. It's people standing together going, wait a minute. This isn't who we are. What are we doing? None of this makes sense. And that's the thing that the media doesn't understand. When I was down in Florida a few months back, I heard from so many people that had gone to tea parties, 9-12 members, so many people said, you've got to talk to Marco Rubio. I don't involve myself in, you know, politics, local politics. I've met very few politicians that I actually like, but I don't remember what it was we were talking about the other day and I said to Stu, I said, do you know what? I would like to reach out to Marco Rubio, I would like to know a little something about him, because I'll tell you, there are going to be a lot of politicians that are going to try to co-op the tea party movement and -- especially Republicans and they're going to say, I've been with you the whole time. Those guys are playing a very dangerous game if they're not the real deal, because you burn people who are looking to you and they are damn near hopeless on I need a leader, I need somebody to represent me and you burn them, you lie to them? Oh, it's just not going to end well. Marco Rubio is running against Charlie Crist in Florida and he's on the phone with us many now. Hello, Marco. Rubio: How are you? Glenn: Good. How are you? Rubio: Just coincidence. A lot of people told me I needed to speak to you. So, I'm glad. Glenn: So, I don't even know where to begin with you to figure out if you're the real deal. I know a lot of people in Florida say that you are. Let me ask you the same question that I asked Sarah Palin yesterday. Rubio: Yeah. Glenn: Why should I believe you? Rubio: Well, I mean, that's probably the fundamental question you ask any candidate. Two reasons: One, because I have a political record. I mean, I served in the Florida house, was speaker of the house. My upbringing, all these things point to the fact that these principles of limited government are not something I figured out back in May, after taking a statewide poll. They're things I believed in my whole life, my whole adult life, both because of where I come from, you know, my upbringing and because of what I've learned in my time in public office. The other is because I'm running for the right reasons. You know, some -- most people that get into politics get in politics because they want to win and get elected to something. This is not the easiest race. I mean, I'm running against the incumbent governor of the State of Florida in my own party. That's not exactly the next logical step up the political ladder. You only get involved in a race like that early on when nobody gave me a chance because there's a certain set of principles you believe in strongly and you don't think anybody else in the race is standing up for them. Glenn: What are the principles? Rubio: I think Constitutional limited government has made America the freest, most prosperous nation in the entire history of the world and why we would abandon that and come like everybody else is just beyond me, you know, and I think that's primarily what's happening. I think both parties are to blame to some extent. I don't think we've ever seen the pace as fast and furious as it is right now, but what we've seen here in the last year is a systematic attempt to completely abandon constitutionally limited company and embrace something mere akin to what you see in other industrialized countries around the world and, in essence, an effort to make America just like everybody else and I don't want to see that. Glenn: You know, Sarah Palin said to me yesterday that she's a Republican and -- because we have a two party system. I don't know if we have a two party system, quite frankly, anymore. We have kind of a two and a half party system -- or a one and a half party system. The Republicans are progressives and they're for big government, big spending and everything else. Tell me about the Republican party and the problem inside the party. Rubio: Well, look. I think the vast majority of Americans, whether they call themselves or not, I mean, most people don't wake up in the morning and say, Good morning. I'm a conservative or, Good morning, I'm a limited government believer. They just wake up and have certain principles. They're too busy raising their kids and living their lives to identify that way, but the vast majority of Americans agree with limited government and I think the Republican party has been successful only in those times when it has been the home for that movement. Unfortunately what happens is once people win office and they're in office or in Washington or a State Capitol somewhere over a period of time, they start to become like everybody else who was ever been in power. They fall in love with the fundraising, with the power, they think the purpose of serving in office is to get reelected. And I think that's happened to the Republican party. You know, at this time last year there were Republicans and pundits across the country saying that the way the Republican party would become more successful is by becoming more like the Democrats. Glenn: Well, how do you avoid that? You've been in power for awhile. Rubio: You know, listen. It's the hardest part of being a pragmatic leader versus sticking to your principles. I think ultimately what you do is you make a commitment to yourself that there are a certain set of principles -- you know, ideas are always on the table but principles cannot be. There are a certain set of principles you believe in. It's the reason why you're serving in office ultimately. Your ultimate goal in office is not to get reelected, is not to do well in the next public opinion poll. It's to stand up for those things you believe in and to use the opportunity you've been given to serve to be a voice on behalf of the things that one believes in and I think you've got to surround yourself with people that remind you of that, I think you've got to work to constantly remind yourself, and I think you've got to tell yourself that the day you forget that, that's the day to get out. Glenn: What is the difference between you and Charlie Crist? Rubio: I don't even know where to begin. I think the one people would probably most recognize is that he's kind of running around the state now saying that, you know, he should not be blamed for accepting the stimulus dollars but what sets him apart from every other Republican governor in the country is that he actually campaigned for it. He went to Fort Meyers, stood on a stage with Barack Obama, said that he thought the stimulus package was a great idea. He then pressured our congressional delegation here in Florida to vote for it. And I think what I tell people ultimately is, look. Last year, last February, if I had been in the U.S. Senate, I would have voted against the stimulus and I would have offered a clear alternative. If he had been in the U.S. Senate, he would have been one of only four Republicans -- well, Arlen Specter switched -- so, let's say three Republicans in the whole country to have voted for it. So, for Republicans in this primary, the question is: Do you want your next U.S. senator to be someone that would have been Barack Obama's third Republican vote? Glenn: The stimulus money is -- do you believe that it is -- it's enough rope to hang yourself with, it's a chain around the states and a way that the Federal Government is going to muscle their way into the states and then pretty much just take the state system apart? Rubio: Well, let me say. The states have been complacent in this and I as a state officer can tell you that one of the things that folks are constantly looking at is what can we do to draw down Federal dollars, what can we do to draw down, you know, Federal matching grants and so forth. I think the states are guilty of increasingly going to the Federal Government and asking for aid, as well, but I think the real failure of the stimulus is that it was supposed to stimulate job creation and the only thing it has stimulated is the national debt. By and large, when you spend money you don't have, governments spend money they don't have, it's destructive and now, you know, my kids owe $800 billion, that they and their generation are going to have to pay off, and we have no jobs to show for he the. There was no progress made as a result of it. So, I do think it's part of a larger trend, which is what you're alluding to, to the Federal Government being involved in virtually every aspect of American life, you know, from the bowl college football system to, you know, creating jobs and part of the problem is that the people who -- part of the problem is that we have a president and a Congress who think the Presidents and Congress are job creators and they're not. Glenn: Marco Rubio is who you're hearing now. He's running for the Senate in Florida against Charlie Crist, a Republican. Your parents were from Cuba. Rubio: Yes. Glenn: They saw it happen there. Do you believe that we are on the same sort of trajectory that Cuba or Venezuela or any of these countries have been on? Are we on that same -- do we have -- Rubio: Let me tell you why I'm always careful about those comparisons. I understand why they're made, but let me tell you why I'm careful about them. Fidel Castro imprisoned people. He executed people. He divided families. He created a Diaspro and exile community and so, I mean, he's a straight-out criminal and a thug and he was before he even took over the country. Here's what I think the lessons from Cuba are about and, that is, that you can lose the essence of your country in a very short period of time. I think one of the things I have always known as a young child, because my neighbors -- I mean, I have a neighbor who served 22 years in a Castro prison for handing out leaflets. I have, you know, people who have had their fathers executed when they were young children in Cuba. I mean, it's hard to grow up in an exile community and be apolitical. So, my entire life I have known that politics matters, I have known that who's in charge of government matters, and I have known innately that things can change quickly in your country if the wrong people are in charge. Glenn: Wouldn't you say -- wouldn't you say that the wrong people are the same kind of people that are -- that were around Fidel Castro are like Van Jones? Rubio: Well, Van Jones is an extreme example of exactly that kind of thought process and, you know, to your credit and the credit of those who joined you in exposing that in government in America today and, look, there is no doubt that there are socialists and collectivists in America today. I mean, few people wear that badge proudly, but they do it because they don't because they know it's unpopular, but let me say this: There is no doubt that those in charge of the America government today are folks that have an unhealthy faith in the ability of government to stimulate the economy and, more importantly, folks that I believe think that government needs to be more involved in our lives because only government can provide us with the things we need. In essence, government knows better than we do. Glenn: Marco Rubio, could you hold for just a second? Rubio: Yep. Glenn: I need to take a quick break here for the network. Glenn: Speaking to senatorial candidate down in Florida, Mark Rubio, who is a -- pardon me? Oh, I'm sorry. Marco Rubio, who is a -- I almost said "polo" when you said that -- when you are -- you're running against Charlie Crist and you are really kind of the bridge -- this is what they're saying about you, you're the bridge between the tea party and the Republican party. If the Republicans don't get their stuff together, burn that bridge down, as far as I'm concerned, but we were talking a little bit about you're Cuban American and I want to talk a little bit about illegal immigration with you, but before we do that, I want to ask you, do you watch -- do you watch my TV show? Rubio: I do. I have a lot of folks -- we TIVO it mostly. Glenn: Okay. Rubio: Does that count? Does that count on the ratings? Glenn: Yeah. It doesn't matter. As long as you're watching, that's the deal. Rubio: Yeah. Glenn: I'm wondering if you buy into -- have you looked into Cloward and Piven, that strategy of collapsing system? Rubio: I have not. I haven't. That's not -- Glenn: Okay. That's kind of one of the things that I talk about on the show is that this is something that Rudy Giuliani talked about that happened in New York in the 1990's, Cloward and Piven strategy to collapse the system, financially overwhelm it. Do you buy into that or do you think these people in Washington are just so stupid on their financial planning here or do you think that it's a little more nefarious? Rubio: I think there's a combination of two things happening. There are people that just don't believe in capitalism or they don't believe in the free market. I mean, thy know the overwhelming number of Americans support. So, they will never admit. I mean, it who ever runs, saying, I'm a proud liberal or I'm a proud progressive or elect me and I'll have government more involved in your lives. I mean, people get elected by, you know, running away from that kind of stuff. Glenn: Yeah. Rubio: Even in the Democratic party. And so -- but there are people that don't believe in the free market, they're more interested in what they call economic justice or social justice, which is really code for let the really smart people tell you what to do because we know what's best for you. I think there is definitely a thought process out there like that and they see this opportunity, this downturn in the economy, as an opportunity to implement policies that we won't be able to return from. And part of it is incompetence. I think you do have people in Washington that don't have any idea how jobs are created. You know, in the commercial break you talked about small businesses and, you know, that's exactly right. I mean, in America some of the best companies started out out of someone's garage or someone's spare bedroom. Glenn: Microsoft. Rubio: You know, presidents don't create jobs. Jobs are created by people that have access to money and they risk that money in pursuit of a great idea that they're willing to work for and I think a lot of the folks making public policy in this country don't believe that, don't get that, and, therefore, their policies don't reflect that. Glenn: Okay. Good. I think that's a great answer. All right. So, Marco, you, Cuban American, you clearly don't hate people because they are different than you unless -- maybe I'm supposed to hate him. He's Cuban America. Should I hate him, because he's different than me? Pat: Well -- Glenn: You understand immigration because your parents came here. Now, Cuba is a different story because you're fleeing oppression, etc., etc. Rubio: Right. Glenn: The big issue that I predict is going to be happening during the fall election is going to be illegal immigration and the left is going to make it all about racism. I personally believe that the more immigrants, the better, as long as they're here legally, the more immigrants, the better. They are the ones that built this country. I've got to tell you, you go down to the Cuban American community and they understand freedom better than those who have lived here for 100 years with their families. They get it. And it is important to have people who want to come here because they will renew is but illegal immigration to me is different. Rubio: Yes. Glenn: Do you agree, disagree, and -- Rubio: I always tell Republicans, when I speak to Republican groups, I always say the Republican party has to be the prolegal immigration party, not simply the anti-illegal immigration party. There's nothing more destructive to legal immigration than illegal immigration. And let there be no mistake. We have a legal immigration system that's broken, but we can't fix this until we get a hold and a grip of this illegal immigration. Glenn: So, what would you do -- what would you do, because this is what's going to happen, because they can't make that charge against you that it's racism, because I don't want people coming from, you know -- I come from German heritage. I don't even know -- 150 years ago. I don't want people coming from Germany that are here illegally. Rubio: Right, right. Glenn: How are you going to make this case or how should the Republicans or the tea party people make this case clearly so you can't be charged with racism? Rubio: Well, first you need to make people understand this was an issue of rule of law. It's not an issue of -- as you said, it doesn't matter where you're coming from. It doesn't matter if you're coming from Canada, Mexico, whatever part of the world. We want immigration, particularly immigration that's a positive for America, but it has to be through organized and legal process that ensures that it's a net positive for us, not to mention the national security component of it. I think the first step is border security and, by the way, something many people don't realize is that border security is not enough because close to half of the folks in this country illegally entered legally and overstayed visas. So, we've got to get a hold of the visa program. Glenn: No. We fixed that after 9-11. Rubio: Well, the problem with the visa program is part of it is they're not being renewed because the system is so bureaucratic. Others never intended to go back and manipulated the system to stay here. So, you've got to show you're serious on the enforcement side, but you also need to deal with the demand side. The reality of it is that there are American employers that are knowingly hiring illegals. There are American employers that are looking the other way and don't want to know because as long as you can produce a document. Some sort of a verification system is essential. Glenn: Marco Rubio, glad I spoke to you. Thank you, sir. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/772eb93d/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 21:35:19 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:35:19 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued In-Reply-To: <3647C90222FE496AAF5D166395598F1B@Xanthus> References: <91186826A4B74B6CB94ABA2EB5537286@YOURB88038198E> <3647C90222FE496AAF5D166395598F1B@Xanthus> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001141835t7d08410fu657bee8d99b33a6f@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Elgin, I guess, if one is hunting with his pistol, being able to hit your target at 100 feet or even 100 yards would be important. In your house, it's not likely you'll ever see a shot of 100 feet .... more like 15 or twenty, tops. >From a self defense point of view, and let me know if that isn't what we were talking about, if your target is 100 feet away, you'd be well advised to not be firing at it. A bad guy at 100 feet and coming toward you is surely not going to be viewed by a court as life threatening yet, from that distance. If the bad guy is going away at that distance, the threat to your life will have already passed. Either way, you are not in a legal position to shoot in self defense. A citizen protecting his life does not get the same considerations as a cop after a bad guy/criminal. Rik On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Elgin Alexander wrote: > Ed, > > True, however, despite the fact that 100 feet doesn't seem as though it is > a great distance, for the standard 45 (which has a very sloppy action), it > is. I've seen guys who have hit a "silhouette" at 50 feet with a S&W 38 or > a Glock 9mm unable to do so with a military issue Colt 45. > > As to your advice to "have an experienced instructor give you lessons," I > couldn't agree more. > > Elgin > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ed Kroposki > *To:* Swift Water > *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:29 AM > *Subject:* [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued > > Elgin said, "with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. > However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless > they have been accurized" > > Actually regarding pistols with kick, a great bit of accuracy is holding > them correctly to account for recoil. A good instructor can teach how to > hold the bigger caliber pistols thru the shot to give considerable > accuracy. It is that last minute movement that controls the accuracy. > > And when you are using pistols you are not talking about long distance. > Really, 100 foot max. The bigger calibers use shock of impact as the > stopping tool. > > Two hands are correctly used. If you shoot right handed, left hand is on > the right hand is to maintain accuracy. Have an experience instructor give > you lessons. > > Most people do not need the FBI training in shooting while rolling over and > over. Just need to get that first shot off in correct direction. > > Ed K > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100114/d8280d6f/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 00:17:05 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:05 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Haiti In-Reply-To: <4B4F78E8.4000805@effros.com> References: <4B4F78E8.4000805@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001142117i4fb403d6u6ee481b97239bba3@mail.gmail.com> Bill, Wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Salvation Army is on the scene as well. They arrived in the Gulf as soon as the wind quit blowing after Katrina. The Red Cross is a well run organization and honest (we move their stuff). Budweiser and Miller Brewing immediately canned water and shipped it by the truckload after the Katrina. FedEx set-up a communication network in NOLA and WalMart and Home Depot used their "just in time" delivery networks to prioritize delivery of essentials. As much as I "dog cuss" the United States, we really do come through in a time of need. Don't underrate the the religious organizations. They respond first and proselytize later. Americans have big hearts. We love to give - given a free choice. Brad On 1/14/10, Bill Effros wrote: > The sister of the former Prime Minister of Haiti is a personal friend. > She lives in Florida, her brother lives just outside Port-au-Prince, > and currently has 23 people taking turns sleeping in 3 cars in the > yard. Yesterday they had neither food nor water. Things look a little > better today, judging from the following email: > > Thank you for your prayers. My brother and my nephews were able to > reach their business at 5:00am today and got plenty of food and water > for themselves and the family members staying with them. They are now > making more trips to supply the community around their house. He told > me that the people are wonderful and always give water and food first to > their children, the teenagers always want to give their share to their > mothers. > > My brother asked that money be sent to the RED CROSS which is well > organized and doing a great job in Haiti. My family is in great spirit. > Considering that we have about 400 members of our family in Haiti, > brothers and sisters their children and grandchildren, Aunts and uncles, > their children and grand children, and great grandchildren, we feel > blessed that only my uncle Joe (confirmed dead) and my cousin Yves > (still haven't found his body) are the only ones not with us. > > My brother asked us to go about our daily routine and to continue > praying for Haiti, and to send whatever money we can to the RED CROSS. > So I am off to the Lowe Art Museum. > > Love and Peace > > Mona > From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 00:59:44 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:59:44 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Interesting interview In-Reply-To: <56C604F0AB214901A710FE286C6C3EC2@YOURB88038198E> References: <56C604F0AB214901A710FE286C6C3EC2@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d71001142159t342bcd84k3cd45affe360733@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Glen Beck is one of the smartest persons in America. America - land of the free, home of the brave. Leave us alone and we'll do the right thing. The current POTUS used every lever of power to achieve his position. That is not the way this country works. We "tea baggers" are taking the country back. Forget "gay marriage" and that stuff, they deserve to be as miserable as they desire. Give up the debate on abortion (it is not a national issue, it is a personal choice, a very difficult one). When I read the Memphis news, I read an accounts of a 19 year-old aborted from society every day. FCK the GOP! I vote for candidates, not the party. Rubio is a good guy. He has my vote. (and I'm thinking about changing my voter reregistration to Florida). We are witnessing a fundamental change in our nation. Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. Maybe we should look at the source documents, once again. This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn out well. Ask Fan! Let's do what we can to help those most in need. Brad On 1/14/10, Ed Kroposki wrote: > I generally do not follow Glen Beck closely, but I noticed he interviewed > Marco Rubio about the Florida senatorial election. > > Here is the interview. Rubio's replies to Beck are a pleasant read in > today's world: > > Ed K > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Glenn Beck: Battle in Florida: Rubio v. Crist > > January 14, 2010 - 13:20 ET > > > > Learn more about Marco Rubio > > > > Glenn: You know, I really do believe that the secret to life is just > remembering who you are, not who you've allowed yourself to become. With all > the problems that we have in the world, remembering who we are, remembering > where we came from, remembering what the truth is, remembering why the > Pilgrim's came here in the first place and why so many fought and died, what > they fought and died for, everything will solve itself. I know that sounds > simple, but it is, because if you remember who you truly are, you truly are > someone of honor and integrity, you may have allowed yourself to become > something different, but when you remember, then you have a choice. Am I > going to still be this person I've allowed myself to become or am I going to > change myself and when we change ourselves, we'll change the world and the > country will right itself. It is part of a -- it is part of what I think the > tea party movement is all about. The 9-12 project is that. It's the values > and the principles. It's people standing together going, wait a minute. This > isn't who we are. What are we doing? None of this makes sense. And that's > the thing that the media doesn't understand. When I was down in Florida a > few months back, I heard from so many people that had gone to tea parties, > 9-12 members, so many people said, you've got to talk to Marco Rubio. I > don't involve myself in, you know, politics, local politics. I've met very > few politicians that I actually like, but I don't remember what it was we > were talking about the other day and I said to Stu, I said, do you know > what? I would like to reach out to Marco Rubio, I would like to know a > little something about him, because I'll tell you, there are going to be a > lot of politicians that are going to try to co-op the tea party movement and > -- especially Republicans and they're going to say, I've been with you the > whole time. Those guys are playing a very dangerous game if they're not the > real deal, because you burn people who are looking to you and they are damn > near hopeless on I need a leader, I need somebody to represent me and you > burn them, you lie to them? Oh, it's just not going to end well. Marco Rubio > is running against Charlie Crist in Florida and he's on the phone with us > many now. Hello, Marco. > > > > Rubio: How are you? > > > > Glenn: Good. How are you? > > > > Rubio: Just coincidence. A lot of people told me I needed to speak to you. > So, I'm glad. > > > > Glenn: So, I don't even know where to begin with you to figure out if you're > the real deal. I know a lot of people in Florida say that you are. Let me > ask you the same question that I asked Sarah Palin yesterday. > > > > Rubio: Yeah. > > > > Glenn: Why should I believe you? > > > > Rubio: Well, I mean, that's probably the fundamental question you ask any > candidate. Two reasons: One, because I have a political record. I mean, I > served in the Florida house, was speaker of the house. My upbringing, all > these things point to the fact that these principles of limited government > are not something I figured out back in May, after taking a statewide poll. > They're things I believed in my whole life, my whole adult life, both > because of where I come from, you know, my upbringing and because of what > I've learned in my time in public office. The other is because I'm running > for the right reasons. You know, some -- most people that get into politics > get in politics because they want to win and get elected to something. This > is not the easiest race. I mean, I'm running against the incumbent governor > of the State of Florida in my own party. That's not exactly the next logical > step up the political ladder. You only get involved in a race like that > early on when nobody gave me a chance because there's a certain set of > principles you believe in strongly and you don't think anybody else in the > race is standing up for them. > > > > Glenn: What are the principles? > > > > Rubio: I think Constitutional limited government has made America the > freest, most prosperous nation in the entire history of the world and why we > would abandon that and come like everybody else is just beyond me, you know, > and I think that's primarily what's happening. I think both parties are to > blame to some extent. I don't think we've ever seen the pace as fast and > furious as it is right now, but what we've seen here in the last year is a > systematic attempt to completely abandon constitutionally limited company > and embrace something mere akin to what you see in other industrialized > countries around the world and, in essence, an effort to make America just > like everybody else and I don't want to see that. > > > > Glenn: You know, Sarah Palin said to me yesterday that she's a Republican > and -- because we have a two party system. I don't know if we have a two > party system, quite frankly, anymore. We have kind of a two and a half party > system -- or a one and a half party system. The Republicans are progressives > and they're for big government, big spending and everything else. Tell me > about the Republican party and the problem inside the party. > > > > Rubio: Well, look. I think the vast majority of Americans, whether they call > themselves or not, I mean, most people don't wake up in the morning and say, > Good morning. I'm a conservative or, Good morning, I'm a limited government > believer. They just wake up and have certain principles. They're too busy > raising their kids and living their lives to identify that way, but the vast > majority of Americans agree with limited government and I think the > Republican party has been successful only in those times when it has been > the home for that movement. Unfortunately what happens is once people win > office and they're in office or in Washington or a State Capitol somewhere > over a period of time, they start to become like everybody else who was ever > been in power. They fall in love with the fundraising, with the power, they > think the purpose of serving in office is to get reelected. And I think > that's happened to the Republican party. You know, at this time last year > there were Republicans and pundits across the country saying that the way > the Republican party would become more successful is by becoming more like > the Democrats. > > > > Glenn: Well, how do you avoid that? You've been in power for awhile. > > > > Rubio: You know, listen. It's the hardest part of being a pragmatic leader > versus sticking to your principles. I think ultimately what you do is you > make a commitment to yourself that there are a certain set of principles -- > you know, ideas are always on the table but principles cannot be. There are > a certain set of principles you believe in. It's the reason why you're > serving in office ultimately. Your ultimate goal in office is not to get > reelected, is not to do well in the next public opinion poll. It's to stand > up for those things you believe in and to use the opportunity you've been > given to serve to be a voice on behalf of the things that one believes in > and I think you've got to surround yourself with people that remind you of > that, I think you've got to work to constantly remind yourself, and I think > you've got to tell yourself that the day you forget that, that's the day to > get out. > > > > Glenn: What is the difference between you and Charlie Crist? > > > > Rubio: I don't even know where to begin. I think the one people would > probably most recognize is that he's kind of running around the state now > saying that, you know, he should not be blamed for accepting the stimulus > dollars but what sets him apart from every other Republican governor in the > country is that he actually campaigned for it. He went to Fort Meyers, stood > on a stage with Barack Obama, said that he thought the stimulus package was > a great idea. He then pressured our congressional delegation here in Florida > to vote for it. And I think what I tell people ultimately is, look. Last > year, last February, if I had been in the U.S. Senate, I would have voted > against the stimulus and I would have offered a clear alternative. If he had > been in the U.S. Senate, he would have been one of only four Republicans -- > well, Arlen Specter switched -- so, let's say three Republicans in the whole > country to have voted for it. So, for Republicans in this primary, the > question is: Do you want your next U.S. senator to be someone that would > have been Barack Obama's third Republican vote? > > > > Glenn: The stimulus money is -- do you believe that it is -- it's enough > rope to hang yourself with, it's a chain around the states and a way that > the Federal Government is going to muscle their way into the states and then > pretty much just take the state system apart? > > > > Rubio: Well, let me say. The states have been complacent in this and I as a > state officer can tell you that one of the things that folks are constantly > looking at is what can we do to draw down Federal dollars, what can we do to > draw down, you know, Federal matching grants and so forth. I think the > states are guilty of increasingly going to the Federal Government and asking > for aid, as well, but I think the real failure of the stimulus is that it > was supposed to stimulate job creation and the only thing it has stimulated > is the national debt. By and large, when you spend money you don't have, > governments spend money they don't have, it's destructive and now, you know, > my kids owe $800 billion, that they and their generation are going to have > to pay off, and we have no jobs to show for he the. There was no progress > made as a result of it. So, I do think it's part of a larger trend, which is > what you're alluding to, to the Federal Government being involved in > virtually every aspect of American life, you know, from the bowl college > football system to, you know, creating jobs and part of the problem is that > the people who -- part of the problem is that we have a president and a > Congress who think the Presidents and Congress are job creators and they're > not. > > > > Glenn: Marco Rubio is who you're hearing now. He's running for the Senate in > Florida against Charlie Crist, a Republican. Your parents were from Cuba. > > > > Rubio: Yes. > > > > Glenn: They saw it happen there. Do you believe that we are on the same sort > of trajectory that Cuba or Venezuela or any of these countries have been on? > Are we on that same -- do we have -- > > > > Rubio: Let me tell you why I'm always careful about those comparisons. I > understand why they're made, but let me tell you why I'm careful about them. > Fidel Castro imprisoned people. He executed people. He divided families. He > created a Diaspro and exile community and so, I mean, he's a straight-out > criminal and a thug and he was before he even took over the country. Here's > what I think the lessons from Cuba are about and, that is, that you can lose > the essence of your country in a very short period of time. I think one of > the things I have always known as a young child, because my neighbors -- I > mean, I have a neighbor who served 22 years in a Castro prison for handing > out leaflets. I have, you know, people who have had their fathers executed > when they were young children in Cuba. I mean, it's hard to grow up in an > exile community and be apolitical. So, my entire life I have known that > politics matters, I have known that who's in charge of government matters, > and I have known innately that things can change quickly in your country if > the wrong people are in charge. > > > > Glenn: Wouldn't you say -- wouldn't you say that the wrong people are the > same kind of people that are -- that were around Fidel Castro are like Van > Jones? > > > > Rubio: Well, Van Jones is an extreme example of exactly that kind of thought > process and, you know, to your credit and the credit of those who joined you > in exposing that in government in America today and, look, there is no doubt > that there are socialists and collectivists in America today. I mean, few > people wear that badge proudly, but they do it because they don't because > they know it's unpopular, but let me say this: There is no doubt that those > in charge of the America government today are folks that have an unhealthy > faith in the ability of government to stimulate the economy and, more > importantly, folks that I believe think that government needs to be more > involved in our lives because only government can provide us with the things > we need. In essence, government knows better than we do. > > > > Glenn: Marco Rubio, could you hold for just a second? > > > > Rubio: Yep. > > > > Glenn: I need to take a quick break here for the network. > > > > Glenn: Speaking to senatorial candidate down in Florida, Mark Rubio, who is > a -- pardon me? Oh, I'm sorry. Marco Rubio, who is a -- I almost said "polo" > when you said that -- when you are -- you're running against Charlie Crist > and you are really kind of the bridge -- this is what they're saying about > you, you're the bridge between the tea party and the Republican party. If > the Republicans don't get their stuff together, burn that bridge down, as > far as I'm concerned, but we were talking a little bit about you're Cuban > American and I want to talk a little bit about illegal immigration with you, > but before we do that, I want to ask you, do you watch -- do you watch my TV > show? > > > > Rubio: I do. I have a lot of folks -- we TIVO it mostly. > > > > Glenn: Okay. > > > > Rubio: Does that count? Does that count on the ratings? > > > > Glenn: Yeah. It doesn't matter. As long as you're watching, that's the deal. > > > > Rubio: Yeah. > > > > Glenn: I'm wondering if you buy into -- have you looked into Cloward and > Piven, that strategy of collapsing system? > > > > Rubio: I have not. I haven't. That's not -- > > > > Glenn: Okay. That's kind of one of the things that I talk about on the show > is that this is something that Rudy Giuliani talked about that happened in > New York in the 1990's, Cloward and Piven strategy to collapse the system, > financially overwhelm it. Do you buy into that or do you think these people > in Washington are just so stupid on their financial planning here or do you > think that it's a little more nefarious? > > > > Rubio: I think there's a combination of two things happening. There are > people that just don't believe in capitalism or they don't believe in the > free market. I mean, thy know the overwhelming number of Americans support. > So, they will never admit. I mean, it who ever runs, saying, I'm a proud > liberal or I'm a proud progressive or elect me and I'll have government more > involved in your lives. I mean, people get elected by, you know, running > away from that kind of stuff. > > > > Glenn: Yeah. > > > > Rubio: Even in the Democratic party. And so -- but there are people that > don't believe in the free market, they're more interested in what they call > economic justice or social justice, which is really code for let the really > smart people tell you what to do because we know what's best for you. I > think there is definitely a thought process out there like that and they see > this opportunity, this downturn in the economy, as an opportunity to > implement policies that we won't be able to return from. And part of it is > incompetence. I think you do have people in Washington that don't have any > idea how jobs are created. You know, in the commercial break you talked > about small businesses and, you know, that's exactly right. I mean, in > America some of the best companies started out out of someone's garage or > someone's spare bedroom. > > > > Glenn: Microsoft. > > > > Rubio: You know, presidents don't create jobs. Jobs are created by people > that have access to money and they risk that money in pursuit of a great > idea that they're willing to work for and I think a lot of the folks making > public policy in this country don't believe that, don't get that, and, > therefore, their policies don't reflect that. > > > > Glenn: Okay. Good. I think that's a great answer. All right. So, Marco, you, > Cuban American, you clearly don't hate people because they are different > than you unless -- maybe I'm supposed to hate him. He's Cuban America. > Should I hate him, because he's different than me? > > > > Pat: Well -- > > > > Glenn: You understand immigration because your parents came here. Now, Cuba > is a different story because you're fleeing oppression, etc., etc. > > > > Rubio: Right. > > > > Glenn: The big issue that I predict is going to be happening during the fall > election is going to be illegal immigration and the left is going to make it > all about racism. I personally believe that the more immigrants, the better, > as long as they're here legally, the more immigrants, the better. They are > the ones that built this country. I've got to tell you, you go down to the > Cuban American community and they understand freedom better than those who > have lived here for 100 years with their families. They get it. And it is > important to have people who want to come here because they will renew is > but illegal immigration to me is different. > > > > Rubio: Yes. > > > > Glenn: Do you agree, disagree, and -- > > > > Rubio: I always tell Republicans, when I speak to Republican groups, I > always say the Republican party has to be the prolegal immigration party, > not simply the anti-illegal immigration party. There's nothing more > destructive to legal immigration than illegal immigration. And let there be > no mistake. We have a legal immigration system that's broken, but we can't > fix this until we get a hold and a grip of this illegal immigration. > > > > Glenn: So, what would you do -- what would you do, because this is what's > going to happen, because they can't make that charge against you that it's > racism, because I don't want people coming from, you know -- I come from > German heritage. I don't even know -- 150 years ago. I don't want people > coming from Germany that are here illegally. > > > > Rubio: Right, right. > > > > Glenn: How are you going to make this case or how should the Republicans or > the tea party people make this case clearly so you can't be charged with > racism? > > > > Rubio: Well, first you need to make people understand this was an issue of > rule of law. It's not an issue of -- as you said, it doesn't matter where > you're coming from. It doesn't matter if you're coming from Canada, Mexico, > whatever part of the world. We want immigration, particularly immigration > that's a positive for America, but it has to be through organized and legal > process that ensures that it's a net positive for us, not to mention the > national security component of it. I think the first step is border security > and, by the way, something many people don't realize is that border security > is not enough because close to half of the folks in this country illegally > entered legally and overstayed visas. So, we've got to get a hold of the > visa program. > > > > Glenn: No. We fixed that after 9-11. > > > > Rubio: Well, the problem with the visa program is part of it is they're not > being renewed because the system is so bureaucratic. Others never intended > to go back and manipulated the system to stay here. So, you've got to show > you're serious on the enforcement side, but you also need to deal with the > demand side. The reality of it is that there are American employers that are > knowingly hiring illegals. There are American employers that are looking the > other way and don't want to know because as long as you can produce a > document. Some sort of a verification system is essential. > > > > Glenn: Marco Rubio, glad I spoke to you. Thank you, sir. > > > From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 15 06:17:55 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:17:55 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] interesting interview Message-ID: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> Brad said, "Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. Maybe we should look at the source documents, once again." I have a copy of the declaration of independence and the Constitution of the USA in a drawer by my right hand. I have quoted both on this forum and the Rhodes forum. I have also quoted from Moses' contribution, the Ten Commandments. It has been stated that our system is based on morality, writings of Washington, Jefferson, et.al. The constitution provides governmental checks and balances. But those checks and balances must be used, applied. The letters, pamphlets and communications behind the declaration of independence and Constitution are also relevant reading. And there are current writers whose analysis and expository on those documents and application today are worth reading as you have so often cited. It was years ago that I read a comment by the then President of Boise Cascade Company of what he was looking for in subordinates. In essence he said, "Send me someone who reads". This forum, your references have helped a few of us do just that. I have looked briefly at another forum and it is dominated by what we call left wing thought, concepts and ideology. But when all is said and done they will not read history and understand what happened. While driving back from a morning at the Wood Workers Guild, I listened to Rush Limbaugh and a female caller. She was citing the Huffington Post and disparaging him. He tried to explain the quotes in the Huffington post were lies to demonize him. She kept up quoting the lies and this went thru a commercial break. After the break, he asked her some questions and she would not accept the fact that what was quoted in the Huffington Post was an intentional distortion. He even played a sound bit of his original statement that the girl was demonizing. Finally, he just called her on the radio a block head. Somewhere in the last political campaign, I came across a quote by an curmudgeon. A guy to takes on all sides. The quote reference what is free speech and pointed out that there were those using free speech to destroy the fundamental concepts written in the documents mentions in the first few paragraphs. His point was that free speech should not include speech or writings that were in essence 'Treasonous'. We are among a group that grasp the intent of the documents referred to, but are not reaching those like the girl who finally got called a block head. When we went to this forum, we had a few of the liberal thinkers. They have departed. Just like this girl on the radio, they accept progressivism as their religion. They have substituted statism for individual freedom. You said, "This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn out well. Ask Fan!" Just like Jihadist, the progressives believe that their ideology is the true way, or religion. And now we have the Haiti thing. You said, "Let's do what we can to help those most in need." This disaster is a multiedged sword. While the US is capable of clearing all the rubble, why is it our obligation? Where are the others making more than a nominal contribution. So now the US is obligated to clean up all disasters. Well you have illustrated often the effectiveness of the US in Louisiana. So we go and clean up. The result is the continued dependence of the local population on us, on others. What have we really done? With Obama's quest for government control, we have given him more people dependent on government, on others. Not exactly what the founders meant. We have made him feel good. We have made him look good. But what have we achieved? Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/bd36799f/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Jan 15 06:24:40 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:24:40 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued Message-ID: <305F4069E2AC40B392C8F1597840BDE1@YOURB88038198E> Rik said, "I guess, if one is hunting with his pistol, being able to hit your target at 100 feet or even 100 yards would be important. In your house, it's not likely you'll ever see a shot of 100 feet .... more like 15 or twenty, tops." Rik, thank you for your comment. That was the point of my original illustration of shooting 50 feet. And if the 45 ACP is easier to use then for personal protection then use it. Since my original purpose and main purpose is out in the woods to stop feral hogs, etc., then I need just a little better accuracy, which I get with the more primitive revolver and six inch barrel. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/2fbdd5f1/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 15 11:00:00 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:00:00 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001141835t7d08410fu657bee8d99b33a6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <91186826A4B74B6CB94ABA2EB5537286@YOURB88038198E> <3647C90222FE496AAF5D166395598F1B@Xanthus> <6634e19e1001141835t7d08410fu657bee8d99b33a6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001150800y41c639fbq8d3e2366baecf34a@mail.gmail.com> Texas has a pretty good "castle law" that has been tested and held up a few times. Basically, bad guys shouldn't enter property (homes, workplaces, autos) with intent to do physical harm, unless they're prepared to get shot. On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Ed, Elgin, > > > I guess, if one is hunting with his pistol, being able to hit your target > at 100 feet or even 100 yards would be important. In your house, it's not > likely you'll ever see a shot of 100 feet .... more like 15 or twenty, tops. > > From a self defense point of view, and let me know if that isn't what we > were talking about, if your target is 100 feet away, you'd be well advised > to not be firing at it. A bad guy at 100 feet and coming toward you is > surely not going to be viewed by a court as life threatening yet, from that > distance. If the bad guy is going away at that distance, the threat to your > life will have already passed. Either way, you are not in a legal position > to shoot in self defense. A citizen protecting his life does not get the > same considerations as a cop after a bad guy/criminal. > > Rik > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Elgin Alexander > wrote: > >> Ed, >> >> True, however, despite the fact that 100 feet doesn't seem as though it is >> a great distance, for the standard 45 (which has a very sloppy action), it >> is. I've seen guys who have hit a "silhouette" at 50 feet with a S&W 38 or >> a Glock 9mm unable to do so with a military issue Colt 45. >> >> As to your advice to "have an experienced instructor give you lessons," I >> couldn't agree more. >> >> Elgin >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Ed Kroposki >> *To:* Swift Water >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:29 AM >> *Subject:* [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued >> >> Elgin said, "with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. >> However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless >> they have been accurized" >> >> Actually regarding pistols with kick, a great bit of accuracy is holding >> them correctly to account for recoil. A good instructor can teach how to >> hold the bigger caliber pistols thru the shot to give considerable >> accuracy. It is that last minute movement that controls the accuracy. >> >> And when you are using pistols you are not talking about long distance. >> Really, 100 foot max. The bigger calibers use shock of impact as the >> stopping tool. >> >> Two hands are correctly used. If you shoot right handed, left hand is on >> the right hand is to maintain accuracy. Have an experience instructor give >> you lessons. >> >> Most people do not need the FBI training in shooting while rolling over >> and over. Just need to get that first shot off in correct direction. >> >> Ed K >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/b934ad13/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 11:10:33 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:10:33 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued In-Reply-To: <305F4069E2AC40B392C8F1597840BDE1@YOURB88038198E> References: <305F4069E2AC40B392C8F1597840BDE1@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001150810y7477b786r220b81af57b54ce4@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Did I not say earlier that one needs to buy the right tool for the job he needs done? I would be the last guy to recommend a 3.5 in barrel .45acp for shooting hogs at 100 feet ... or even 50. However, there aren't a lot of pistols more effective for stopping a possibly drug affected/drunk home invader at ten feet. Easier? I don't believe I said that. Rik On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:24 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Rik said, "I guess, if one is hunting with his pistol, being able to hit > your target at > 100 feet or even 100 yards would be important. In your house, it's not > likely you'll ever see a shot of 100 feet .... more like 15 or twenty, > tops." > > Rik, thank you for your comment. That was the point of my original > illustration of > shooting 50 feet. > > And if the 45 ACP is easier to use then for personal protection then use > it. Since my > original purpose and main purpose is out in the woods to stop feral hogs, > etc., then > I need just a little better accuracy, which I get with the more primitive > revolver and six > inch barrel. > > Ed K > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/27ce17c0/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 11:44:15 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:44:15 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001150800y41c639fbq8d3e2366baecf34a@mail.gmail.com> References: <91186826A4B74B6CB94ABA2EB5537286@YOURB88038198E> <3647C90222FE496AAF5D166395598F1B@Xanthus> <6634e19e1001141835t7d08410fu657bee8d99b33a6f@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001150800y41c639fbq8d3e2366baecf34a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001150844m340ad1c9p3eb8755e7e6307b0@mail.gmail.com> Herb, Yes they do and I'd like to see a lot more states adopt castle laws. I was disappointed though, to learn that Texas doesn't recognize my Minnesota carry permit. But, I think if you look into it, you'll find that if you shoot someone who is a hundred feet away you better pick him up and throw him back in your house. Rik On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Herb Parsons wrote: > Texas has a pretty good "castle law" that has been tested and held up a few > times. Basically, bad guys shouldn't enter property (homes, workplaces, > autos) with intent to do physical harm, unless they're prepared to get shot. > > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Ed, Elgin, >> >> >> I guess, if one is hunting with his pistol, being able to hit your target >> at 100 feet or even 100 yards would be important. In your house, it's not >> likely you'll ever see a shot of 100 feet .... more like 15 or twenty, tops. >> >> From a self defense point of view, and let me know if that isn't what we >> were talking about, if your target is 100 feet away, you'd be well advised >> to not be firing at it. A bad guy at 100 feet and coming toward you is >> surely not going to be viewed by a court as life threatening yet, from that >> distance. If the bad guy is going away at that distance, the threat to your >> life will have already passed. Either way, you are not in a legal position >> to shoot in self defense. A citizen protecting his life does not get the >> same considerations as a cop after a bad guy/criminal. >> >> Rik >> >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Elgin Alexander < >> elginalexander at erols.com> wrote: >> >>> Ed, >>> >>> True, however, despite the fact that 100 feet doesn't seem as though it >>> is a great distance, for the standard 45 (which has a very sloppy action), >>> it is. I've seen guys who have hit a "silhouette" at 50 feet with a S&W 38 >>> or a Glock 9mm unable to do so with a military issue Colt 45. >>> >>> As to your advice to "have an experienced instructor give you lessons," I >>> couldn't agree more. >>> >>> Elgin >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Ed Kroposki >>> *To:* Swift Water >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:29 AM >>> *Subject:* [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued >>> >>> Elgin said, "with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. >>> However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless >>> they have been accurized" >>> >>> Actually regarding pistols with kick, a great bit of accuracy is holding >>> them correctly to account for recoil. A good instructor can teach how to >>> hold the bigger caliber pistols thru the shot to give considerable >>> accuracy. It is that last minute movement that controls the accuracy. >>> >>> And when you are using pistols you are not talking about long distance. >>> Really, 100 foot max. The bigger calibers use shock of impact as the >>> stopping tool. >>> >>> Two hands are correctly used. If you shoot right handed, left hand is on >>> the right hand is to maintain accuracy. Have an experience instructor give >>> you lessons. >>> >>> Most people do not need the FBI training in shooting while rolling over >>> and over. Just need to get that first shot off in correct direction. >>> >>> Ed K >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >> Churchill >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/d78a54e8/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 15 12:21:43 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:21:43 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] interesting interview In-Reply-To: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> References: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <5f889a891001150921ud3d5cc6w92919d56e0b7034a@mail.gmail.com> "But when all is said and done they will not read history and understand what happened." This is the essence of the liberal left. They do not need to read about the past, because they are smarter, more educated, and more sophisticated than those who made history and wrote those documents. Don't believe it? Just ask them. They'll have a ton of like-minded believers to back them up. As to NO and Hati, I think that what Brad was encouraging was individual assistance, not assistance by the state (lower case, meaning the govt.). The advantage of individual assistance is that there is a higher level of accountability. When one's job is to "assist", then that person is motivated by something other than wanting to give temporary aid. I remember when I was in NO after Katrina. (Then) Governor Kathleen Blanco was reported in the news as saying they were not refusing supplies to the people that had chosen not to evacuate. I laughed when I heard that. Literally two days before, as I moved the DUKW around NO I had done exactly that. When offered a ride out of the mess, many folks opted to stay (there was a "mandatory" evacuation). Lots of folks said they'd wait, but wanted water supplies. I refused, and told them the water was for those leaving. I did it without blanching, and without hesitation. If someone decides to act a fool, I'm not going to empower them to appear less so. On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Brad said, "Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. Maybe we > should > look at the source documents, once again." > > I have a copy of the declaration of independence and the Constitution of > the USA in > a drawer by my right hand. I have quoted both on this forum and the > Rhodes forum. > > I have also quoted from Moses' contribution, the Ten Commandments. > It has been stated that our system is based on morality, writings of > Washington, Jefferson, et.al. > > The constitution provides governmental checks and balances. But those > checks > and balances must be used, applied. > > The letters, pamphlets and communications behind the declaration of > independence and Constitution are also relevant reading. > > And there are current writers whose analysis and expository on those > documents and application today are worth reading as you have so often > cited. > > It was years ago that I read a comment by the then President of Boise > Cascade Company of what he was looking for in subordinates. In essence > he said, "Send me someone who reads". > > This forum, your references have helped a few of us do just that. > I have looked briefly at another forum and it is dominated by what > we call left wing thought, concepts and ideology. But when all is said > and done they will not read history and understand what happened. > > While driving back from a morning at the Wood Workers Guild, I listened > to Rush Limbaugh and a female caller. She was citing the Huffington Post > and disparaging him. He tried to explain the quotes in the Huffington post > > were lies to demonize him. She kept up quoting the lies and this went thru > > a commercial break. After the break, he asked her some questions and she > would not accept the fact that what was quoted in the Huffington Post was > an intentional distortion. He even played a sound bit of his original > statement > that the girl was demonizing. Finally, he just called her on the radio a > block head. > > Somewhere in the last political campaign, I came across a quote by > an curmudgeon. > A guy to takes on all sides. The quote reference what is free speech and > pointed > out that there were those using free speech to destroy the fundamental > concepts > written in the documents mentions in the first few paragraphs. His point > was > that free speech should not include speech or writings that were in essence > 'Treasonous'. > > We are among a group that grasp the intent of the documents referred to, > but > are not reaching those like the girl who finally got called a block head. > When > we went to this forum, we had a few of the liberal thinkers. They have > departed. > Just like this girl on the radio, they accept progressivism as their > religion. They > have substituted statism for individual freedom. > > You said, "This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn out > well. > Ask Fan!" > > Just like Jihadist, the progressives believe that their ideology is the > true way, > or religion. > > And now we have the Haiti thing. You said, "Let's do what we can to help > those > most in need." > > This disaster is a multiedged sword. While the US is capable of clearing > all the rubble, > why is it our obligation? > > Where are the others making more than a nominal contribution. So now the > US is > obligated to clean up all disasters. Well you have illustrated often the > effectiveness > of the US in Louisiana. > > So we go and clean up. The result is the continued dependence of the local > population > on us, on others. What have we really done? > > With Obama's quest for government control, we have given him more people > dependent > on government, on others. Not exactly what the founders meant. We have > made him feel > good. We have made him look good. But what have we achieved? > > Ed K > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/05efb757/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 12:35:12 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:35:12 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] interesting interview In-Reply-To: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> References: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001150935g282001b0j3d5ce9261cf736ab@mail.gmail.com> Ed, You kinda hit on the problem here. It seems, the more you give, the more you are expected to give. When does it stop being a helping hand to someone in trouble and begin to be welfare for someone who won't take care of themselves. I agree, liberals don't seem to understand the difference. One cannot elevate himself by dragging all others down to his level. Rik On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Brad said, "Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. Maybe we > should > look at the source documents, once again." > > I have a copy of the declaration of independence and the Constitution of > the USA in > a drawer by my right hand. I have quoted both on this forum and the > Rhodes forum. > > I have also quoted from Moses' contribution, the Ten Commandments. > It has been stated that our system is based on morality, writings of > Washington, Jefferson, et.al. > > The constitution provides governmental checks and balances. But those > checks > and balances must be used, applied. > > The letters, pamphlets and communications behind the declaration of > independence and Constitution are also relevant reading. > > And there are current writers whose analysis and expository on those > documents and application today are worth reading as you have so often > cited. > > It was years ago that I read a comment by the then President of Boise > Cascade Company of what he was looking for in subordinates. In essence > he said, "Send me someone who reads". > > This forum, your references have helped a few of us do just that. > I have looked briefly at another forum and it is dominated by what > we call left wing thought, concepts and ideology. But when all is said > and done they will not read history and understand what happened. > > While driving back from a morning at the Wood Workers Guild, I listened > to Rush Limbaugh and a female caller. She was citing the Huffington Post > and disparaging him. He tried to explain the quotes in the Huffington post > > were lies to demonize him. She kept up quoting the lies and this went thru > > a commercial break. After the break, he asked her some questions and she > would not accept the fact that what was quoted in the Huffington Post was > an intentional distortion. He even played a sound bit of his original > statement > that the girl was demonizing. Finally, he just called her on the radio a > block head. > > Somewhere in the last political campaign, I came across a quote by > an curmudgeon. > A guy to takes on all sides. The quote reference what is free speech and > pointed > out that there were those using free speech to destroy the fundamental > concepts > written in the documents mentions in the first few paragraphs. His point > was > that free speech should not include speech or writings that were in essence > 'Treasonous'. > > We are among a group that grasp the intent of the documents referred to, > but > are not reaching those like the girl who finally got called a block head. > When > we went to this forum, we had a few of the liberal thinkers. They have > departed. > Just like this girl on the radio, they accept progressivism as their > religion. They > have substituted statism for individual freedom. > > You said, "This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn out > well. > Ask Fan!" > > Just like Jihadist, the progressives believe that their ideology is the > true way, > or religion. > > And now we have the Haiti thing. You said, "Let's do what we can to help > those > most in need." > > This disaster is a multiedged sword. While the US is capable of clearing > all the rubble, > why is it our obligation? > > Where are the others making more than a nominal contribution. So now the > US is > obligated to clean up all disasters. Well you have illustrated often the > effectiveness > of the US in Louisiana. > > So we go and clean up. The result is the continued dependence of the local > population > on us, on others. What have we really done? > > With Obama's quest for government control, we have given him more people > dependent > on government, on others. Not exactly what the founders meant. We have > made him feel > good. We have made him look good. But what have we achieved? > > Ed K > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/45924ab8/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 12:45:26 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:45:26 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] interesting interview In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001150921ud3d5cc6w92919d56e0b7034a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> <5f889a891001150921ud3d5cc6w92919d56e0b7034a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001150945j3c6aa151ka78dd57e2748168c@mail.gmail.com> Herb, Just curious, but what do you do that got you into a position to be involved in the rescue ops in N.O.? Rik On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Herb Parsons wrote: > "But when all is said and done they will not read history and understand > what happened." > This is the essence of the liberal left. They do not need to read about the > past, because they are smarter, more educated, and more sophisticated than > those who made history and wrote those documents. Don't believe it? Just ask > them. They'll have a ton of like-minded believers to back them up. > > As to NO and Hati, I think that what Brad was encouraging was individual > assistance, not assistance by the state (lower case, meaning the govt.). The > advantage of individual assistance is that there is a higher level of > accountability. When one's job is to "assist", then that person is motivated > by something other than wanting to give temporary aid. > > I remember when I was in NO after Katrina. (Then) Governor Kathleen Blanco > was reported in the news as saying they were not refusing supplies to the > people that had chosen not to evacuate. I laughed when I heard that. > Literally two days before, as I moved the DUKW around NO I had done exactly > that. When offered a ride out of the mess, many folks opted to stay (there > was a "mandatory" evacuation). Lots of folks said they'd wait, but wanted > water supplies. I refused, and told them the water was for those leaving. I > did it without blanching, and without hesitation. If someone decides to act > a fool, I'm not going to empower them to appear less so. > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > >> Brad said, "Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. Maybe >> we should >> look at the source documents, once again." >> >> I have a copy of the declaration of independence and the Constitution of >> the USA in >> a drawer by my right hand. I have quoted both on this forum and the >> Rhodes forum. >> >> I have also quoted from Moses' contribution, the Ten Commandments. >> It has been stated that our system is based on morality, writings of >> Washington, Jefferson, et.al. >> >> The constitution provides governmental checks and balances. But those >> checks >> and balances must be used, applied. >> >> The letters, pamphlets and communications behind the declaration of >> independence and Constitution are also relevant reading. >> >> And there are current writers whose analysis and expository on those >> documents and application today are worth reading as you have so often >> cited. >> >> It was years ago that I read a comment by the then President of Boise >> Cascade Company of what he was looking for in subordinates. In essence >> he said, "Send me someone who reads". >> >> This forum, your references have helped a few of us do just that. >> I have looked briefly at another forum and it is dominated by what >> we call left wing thought, concepts and ideology. But when all is said >> and done they will not read history and understand what happened. >> >> While driving back from a morning at the Wood Workers Guild, I listened >> to Rush Limbaugh and a female caller. She was citing the Huffington Post >> and disparaging him. He tried to explain the quotes in the Huffington >> post >> were lies to demonize him. She kept up quoting the lies and this went >> thru >> a commercial break. After the break, he asked her some questions and she >> would not accept the fact that what was quoted in the Huffington Post was >> an intentional distortion. He even played a sound bit of his original >> statement >> that the girl was demonizing. Finally, he just called her on the radio a >> block head. >> >> Somewhere in the last political campaign, I came across a quote by >> an curmudgeon. >> A guy to takes on all sides. The quote reference what is free speech and >> pointed >> out that there were those using free speech to destroy the fundamental >> concepts >> written in the documents mentions in the first few paragraphs. His point >> was >> that free speech should not include speech or writings that were in >> essence 'Treasonous'. >> >> We are among a group that grasp the intent of the documents referred to, >> but >> are not reaching those like the girl who finally got called a block head. >> When >> we went to this forum, we had a few of the liberal thinkers. They have >> departed. >> Just like this girl on the radio, they accept progressivism as their >> religion. They >> have substituted statism for individual freedom. >> >> You said, "This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn >> out well. >> Ask Fan!" >> >> Just like Jihadist, the progressives believe that their ideology is the >> true way, >> or religion. >> >> And now we have the Haiti thing. You said, "Let's do what we can to help >> those >> most in need." >> >> This disaster is a multiedged sword. While the US is capable of clearing >> all the rubble, >> why is it our obligation? >> >> Where are the others making more than a nominal contribution. So now the >> US is >> obligated to clean up all disasters. Well you have illustrated often the >> effectiveness >> of the US in Louisiana. >> >> So we go and clean up. The result is the continued dependence of the >> local population >> on us, on others. What have we really done? >> >> With Obama's quest for government control, we have given him more people >> dependent >> on government, on others. Not exactly what the founders meant. We have >> made him feel >> good. We have made him look good. But what have we achieved? >> >> Ed K >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/33a058c0/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 15 16:16:06 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:16:06 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001150844m340ad1c9p3eb8755e7e6307b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <91186826A4B74B6CB94ABA2EB5537286@YOURB88038198E> <3647C90222FE496AAF5D166395598F1B@Xanthus> <6634e19e1001141835t7d08410fu657bee8d99b33a6f@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001150800y41c639fbq8d3e2366baecf34a@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001150844m340ad1c9p3eb8755e7e6307b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001151316v5b3a1553tae10a54a6b4b5e2@mail.gmail.com> There was actually a case where a thief had taken some items from the home, and was still on the property when he was shot (can't remember for sure if he was killed, but I *think* he was). At first, the local DA was going to prosecute, because he was out of the house, and was leaving. Can't remember if it made it to court, but the basic outcome was, the homeowner was protecting his property, and was within his rights to shoot even though the thief was leaving. Of course, my yard isn't 100 feet, but some of them are. On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Herb, > > Yes they do and I'd like to see a lot more states adopt castle laws. I was > disappointed though, to learn that Texas doesn't recognize my Minnesota > carry permit. > > But, I think if you look into it, you'll find that if you shoot someone who > is a hundred feet away you better pick him up and throw him back in your > house. > > Rik > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Herb Parsons wrote: > >> Texas has a pretty good "castle law" that has been tested and held up a >> few times. Basically, bad guys shouldn't enter property (homes, workplaces, >> autos) with intent to do physical harm, unless they're prepared to get shot. >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> >>> Ed, Elgin, >>> >>> >>> I guess, if one is hunting with his pistol, being able to hit your target >>> at 100 feet or even 100 yards would be important. In your house, it's not >>> likely you'll ever see a shot of 100 feet .... more like 15 or twenty, tops. >>> >>> From a self defense point of view, and let me know if that isn't what we >>> were talking about, if your target is 100 feet away, you'd be well advised >>> to not be firing at it. A bad guy at 100 feet and coming toward you is >>> surely not going to be viewed by a court as life threatening yet, from that >>> distance. If the bad guy is going away at that distance, the threat to your >>> life will have already passed. Either way, you are not in a legal position >>> to shoot in self defense. A citizen protecting his life does not get the >>> same considerations as a cop after a bad guy/criminal. >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Elgin Alexander < >>> elginalexander at erols.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Ed, >>>> >>>> True, however, despite the fact that 100 feet doesn't seem as though it >>>> is a great distance, for the standard 45 (which has a very sloppy action), >>>> it is. I've seen guys who have hit a "silhouette" at 50 feet with a S&W 38 >>>> or a Glock 9mm unable to do so with a military issue Colt 45. >>>> >>>> As to your advice to "have an experienced instructor give you lessons," >>>> I couldn't agree more. >>>> >>>> Elgin >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> *From:* Ed Kroposki >>>> *To:* Swift Water >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:29 AM >>>> *Subject:* [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued >>>> >>>> Elgin said, "with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. >>>> However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless >>>> they have been accurized" >>>> >>>> Actually regarding pistols with kick, a great bit of accuracy is holding >>>> them correctly to account for recoil. A good instructor can teach how to >>>> hold the bigger caliber pistols thru the shot to give considerable >>>> accuracy. It is that last minute movement that controls the accuracy. >>>> >>>> And when you are using pistols you are not talking about long distance. >>>> Really, 100 foot max. The bigger calibers use shock of impact as the >>>> stopping tool. >>>> >>>> Two hands are correctly used. If you shoot right handed, left hand is >>>> on the right hand is to maintain accuracy. Have an experience >>>> instructor give you lessons. >>>> >>>> Most people do not need the FBI training in shooting while rolling over >>>> and over. Just need to get that first shot off in correct direction. >>>> >>>> Ed K >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >>> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >>> Churchill >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/a86c28f2/attachment-0001.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 15 16:23:44 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:23:44 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] interesting interview In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001150945j3c6aa151ka78dd57e2748168c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> <5f889a891001150921ud3d5cc6w92919d56e0b7034a@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001150945j3c6aa151ka78dd57e2748168c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001151323h2d9e6ef7y44d58eeb255b9242@mail.gmail.com> Long story, but here's the *very* short version. I had just gotten my 25 ton masters, sail and motor (and towing). A local startup company was doing DUKW tours on Lake Grapevine (www.duckriders.com) Initially, the owner wanted drivers from two groups, firemen working on their days off, and licenses boat captains. So, I signed up. I never actually operated a DUKW for them on a tour (they lowered the pay, and shortened the schedule, so it never worked out), but I *did* do the training. Shortly after I signed on, Katrina hit, and the owner asked if someone licensed would be willing to operate the DUKW. I volunteered ( http://www.duckriders.com/history.aspx down near the bottom). It was quite an experience. On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Herb, > > Just curious, but what do you do that got you into a position to be > involved in the rescue ops in N.O.? > > Rik > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Herb Parsons wrote: > >> "But when all is said and done they will not read history and understand >> what happened." >> This is the essence of the liberal left. They do not need to read about >> the past, because they are smarter, more educated, and more sophisticated >> than those who made history and wrote those documents. Don't believe it? >> Just ask them. They'll have a ton of like-minded believers to back them up. >> >> As to NO and Hati, I think that what Brad was encouraging was individual >> assistance, not assistance by the state (lower case, meaning the govt.). The >> advantage of individual assistance is that there is a higher level of >> accountability. When one's job is to "assist", then that person is motivated >> by something other than wanting to give temporary aid. >> >> I remember when I was in NO after Katrina. (Then) Governor Kathleen Blanco >> was reported in the news as saying they were not refusing supplies to the >> people that had chosen not to evacuate. I laughed when I heard that. >> Literally two days before, as I moved the DUKW around NO I had done exactly >> that. When offered a ride out of the mess, many folks opted to stay (there >> was a "mandatory" evacuation). Lots of folks said they'd wait, but wanted >> water supplies. I refused, and told them the water was for those leaving. I >> did it without blanching, and without hesitation. If someone decides to act >> a fool, I'm not going to empower them to appear less so. >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: >> >>> Brad said, "Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. Maybe >>> we should >>> look at the source documents, once again." >>> >>> I have a copy of the declaration of independence and the Constitution of >>> the USA in >>> a drawer by my right hand. I have quoted both on this forum and the >>> Rhodes forum. >>> >>> I have also quoted from Moses' contribution, the Ten Commandments. >>> It has been stated that our system is based on morality, writings of >>> Washington, Jefferson, et.al. >>> >>> The constitution provides governmental checks and balances. But those >>> checks >>> and balances must be used, applied. >>> >>> The letters, pamphlets and communications behind the declaration of >>> independence and Constitution are also relevant reading. >>> >>> And there are current writers whose analysis and expository on those >>> documents and application today are worth reading as you have so often >>> cited. >>> >>> It was years ago that I read a comment by the then President of Boise >>> Cascade Company of what he was looking for in subordinates. In essence >>> he said, "Send me someone who reads". >>> >>> This forum, your references have helped a few of us do just that. >>> I have looked briefly at another forum and it is dominated by what >>> we call left wing thought, concepts and ideology. But when all is said >>> and done they will not read history and understand what happened. >>> >>> While driving back from a morning at the Wood Workers Guild, I listened >>> to Rush Limbaugh and a female caller. She was citing the Huffington Post >>> >>> and disparaging him. He tried to explain the quotes in the Huffington >>> post >>> were lies to demonize him. She kept up quoting the lies and this went >>> thru >>> a commercial break. After the break, he asked her some questions and she >>> >>> would not accept the fact that what was quoted in the Huffington Post was >>> >>> an intentional distortion. He even played a sound bit of his original >>> statement >>> that the girl was demonizing. Finally, he just called her on the radio a >>> block head. >>> >>> Somewhere in the last political campaign, I came across a quote by >>> an curmudgeon. >>> A guy to takes on all sides. The quote reference what is free speech and >>> pointed >>> out that there were those using free speech to destroy the fundamental >>> concepts >>> written in the documents mentions in the first few paragraphs. His point >>> was >>> that free speech should not include speech or writings that were in >>> essence 'Treasonous'. >>> >>> We are among a group that grasp the intent of the documents referred to, >>> but >>> are not reaching those like the girl who finally got called a block >>> head. When >>> we went to this forum, we had a few of the liberal thinkers. They have >>> departed. >>> Just like this girl on the radio, they accept progressivism as their >>> religion. They >>> have substituted statism for individual freedom. >>> >>> You said, "This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn >>> out well. >>> Ask Fan!" >>> >>> Just like Jihadist, the progressives believe that their ideology is the >>> true way, >>> or religion. >>> >>> And now we have the Haiti thing. You said, "Let's do what we can to >>> help those >>> most in need." >>> >>> This disaster is a multiedged sword. While the US is capable of clearing >>> all the rubble, >>> why is it our obligation? >>> >>> Where are the others making more than a nominal contribution. So now the >>> US is >>> obligated to clean up all disasters. Well you have illustrated often the >>> effectiveness >>> of the US in Louisiana. >>> >>> So we go and clean up. The result is the continued dependence of the >>> local population >>> on us, on others. What have we really done? >>> >>> With Obama's quest for government control, we have given him more people >>> dependent >>> on government, on others. Not exactly what the founders meant. We have >>> made him feel >>> good. We have made him look good. But what have we achieved? >>> >>> Ed K >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/8167702d/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 16:36:28 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:36:28 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001151316v5b3a1553tae10a54a6b4b5e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <91186826A4B74B6CB94ABA2EB5537286@YOURB88038198E> <3647C90222FE496AAF5D166395598F1B@Xanthus> <6634e19e1001141835t7d08410fu657bee8d99b33a6f@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001150800y41c639fbq8d3e2366baecf34a@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001150844m340ad1c9p3eb8755e7e6307b0@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001151316v5b3a1553tae10a54a6b4b5e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001151336v60aed22dpe58e924d59d4f92e@mail.gmail.com> Herb, If true, then good for them. A person should be able to protect what's theirs. In Minnesota, even though they have improved the self defense laws lately, I doubt that scenario would have worked out as well for the property owner. I much admire Texas for their stubbornness in defense of a property owner's rights. Rik On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: > There was actually a case where a thief had taken some items from the home, > and was still on the property when he was shot (can't remember for sure if > he was killed, but I *think* he was). At first, the local DA was going to > prosecute, because he was out of the house, and was leaving. Can't remember > if it made it to court, but the basic outcome was, the homeowner was > protecting his property, and was within his rights to shoot even though the > thief was leaving. > > Of course, my yard isn't 100 feet, but some of them are. > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Herb, >> >> Yes they do and I'd like to see a lot more states adopt castle laws. I was >> disappointed though, to learn that Texas doesn't recognize my Minnesota >> carry permit. >> >> But, I think if you look into it, you'll find that if you shoot someone >> who is a hundred feet away you better pick him up and throw him back in your >> house. >> >> Rik >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Herb Parsons wrote: >> >>> Texas has a pretty good "castle law" that has been tested and held up a >>> few times. Basically, bad guys shouldn't enter property (homes, workplaces, >>> autos) with intent to do physical harm, unless they're prepared to get shot. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> >>>> Ed, Elgin, >>>> >>>> >>>> I guess, if one is hunting with his pistol, being able to hit your >>>> target at 100 feet or even 100 yards would be important. In your house, it's >>>> not likely you'll ever see a shot of 100 feet .... more like 15 or twenty, >>>> tops. >>>> >>>> From a self defense point of view, and let me know if that isn't what we >>>> were talking about, if your target is 100 feet away, you'd be well advised >>>> to not be firing at it. A bad guy at 100 feet and coming toward you is >>>> surely not going to be viewed by a court as life threatening yet, from that >>>> distance. If the bad guy is going away at that distance, the threat to your >>>> life will have already passed. Either way, you are not in a legal position >>>> to shoot in self defense. A citizen protecting his life does not get the >>>> same considerations as a cop after a bad guy/criminal. >>>> >>>> Rik >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Elgin Alexander < >>>> elginalexander at erols.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ed, >>>>> >>>>> True, however, despite the fact that 100 feet doesn't seem as though it >>>>> is a great distance, for the standard 45 (which has a very sloppy action), >>>>> it is. I've seen guys who have hit a "silhouette" at 50 feet with a S&W 38 >>>>> or a Glock 9mm unable to do so with a military issue Colt 45. >>>>> >>>>> As to your advice to "have an experienced instructor give you lessons," >>>>> I couldn't agree more. >>>>> >>>>> Elgin >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* Ed Kroposki >>>>> *To:* Swift Water >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:29 AM >>>>> *Subject:* [Swiftwater Gazette] Who wants to be a democrat continued >>>>> >>>>> Elgin said, "with regard to the 45, yes, it does have stopping power. >>>>> However, most of them, as already noted, have quite a recoil and, unless >>>>> they have been accurized" >>>>> >>>>> Actually regarding pistols with kick, a great bit of accuracy is >>>>> holding them correctly to account for recoil. A good instructor can teach >>>>> how to hold the bigger caliber pistols thru the shot to give considerable >>>>> accuracy. It is that last minute movement that controls the accuracy. >>>>> >>>>> And when you are using pistols you are not talking about long >>>>> distance. Really, 100 foot max. The bigger calibers use shock of impact as >>>>> the stopping tool. >>>>> >>>>> Two hands are correctly used. If you shoot right handed, left hand is >>>>> on the right hand is to maintain accuracy. Have an experience >>>>> instructor give you lessons. >>>>> >>>>> Most people do not need the FBI training in shooting while rolling over >>>>> and over. Just need to get that first shot off in correct direction. >>>>> >>>>> Ed K >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >>>> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >>>> Churchill >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >> Churchill >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/9c6ac423/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 17:16:30 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:16:30 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] interesting interview In-Reply-To: <5f889a891001151323h2d9e6ef7y44d58eeb255b9242@mail.gmail.com> References: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> <5f889a891001150921ud3d5cc6w92919d56e0b7034a@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001150945j3c6aa151ka78dd57e2748168c@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001151323h2d9e6ef7y44d58eeb255b9242@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001151416h4e602098w45bf06f33a752a7d@mail.gmail.com> Herb, Quite an experience indeed! Wish I could have been there. Honestly, it was hard to sit up here in Minnesota and watch all that going on and being unable to go lend a hand. Rik On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: > Long story, but here's the *very* short version. > > I had just gotten my 25 ton masters, sail and motor (and towing). A local > startup company was doing DUKW tours on Lake Grapevine (www.duckriders.com) > Initially, the owner wanted drivers from two groups, firemen working on > their days off, and licenses boat captains. So, I signed up. I never > actually operated a DUKW for them on a tour (they lowered the pay, and > shortened the schedule, so it never worked out), but I *did* do the > training. Shortly after I signed on, Katrina hit, and the owner asked if > someone licensed would be willing to operate the DUKW. I volunteered ( > http://www.duckriders.com/history.aspx down near the bottom). It was quite > an experience. > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Herb, >> >> Just curious, but what do you do that got you into a position to be >> involved in the rescue ops in N.O.? >> >> Rik >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Herb Parsons wrote: >> >>> "But when all is said and done they will not read history and understand >>> what happened." >>> This is the essence of the liberal left. They do not need to read about >>> the past, because they are smarter, more educated, and more sophisticated >>> than those who made history and wrote those documents. Don't believe it? >>> Just ask them. They'll have a ton of like-minded believers to back them up. >>> >>> As to NO and Hati, I think that what Brad was encouraging was individual >>> assistance, not assistance by the state (lower case, meaning the govt.). The >>> advantage of individual assistance is that there is a higher level of >>> accountability. When one's job is to "assist", then that person is motivated >>> by something other than wanting to give temporary aid. >>> >>> I remember when I was in NO after Katrina. (Then) Governor Kathleen >>> Blanco was reported in the news as saying they were not refusing supplies to >>> the people that had chosen not to evacuate. I laughed when I heard that. >>> Literally two days before, as I moved the DUKW around NO I had done exactly >>> that. When offered a ride out of the mess, many folks opted to stay (there >>> was a "mandatory" evacuation). Lots of folks said they'd wait, but wanted >>> water supplies. I refused, and told them the water was for those leaving. I >>> did it without blanching, and without hesitation. If someone decides to act >>> a fool, I'm not going to empower them to appear less so. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: >>> >>>> Brad said, "Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. Maybe >>>> we should >>>> look at the source documents, once again." >>>> >>>> I have a copy of the declaration of independence and the Constitution of >>>> the USA in >>>> a drawer by my right hand. I have quoted both on this forum and the >>>> Rhodes forum. >>>> >>>> I have also quoted from Moses' contribution, the Ten Commandments. >>>> It has been stated that our system is based on morality, writings of >>>> Washington, Jefferson, et.al. >>>> >>>> The constitution provides governmental checks and balances. But those >>>> checks >>>> and balances must be used, applied. >>>> >>>> The letters, pamphlets and communications behind the declaration of >>>> independence and Constitution are also relevant reading. >>>> >>>> And there are current writers whose analysis and expository on those >>>> documents and application today are worth reading as you have so often >>>> cited. >>>> >>>> It was years ago that I read a comment by the then President of Boise >>>> Cascade Company of what he was looking for in subordinates. In essence >>>> he said, "Send me someone who reads". >>>> >>>> This forum, your references have helped a few of us do just that. >>>> I have looked briefly at another forum and it is dominated by what >>>> we call left wing thought, concepts and ideology. But when all is said >>>> and done they will not read history and understand what happened. >>>> >>>> While driving back from a morning at the Wood Workers Guild, I listened >>>> to Rush Limbaugh and a female caller. She was citing the Huffington >>>> Post >>>> and disparaging him. He tried to explain the quotes in the Huffington >>>> post >>>> were lies to demonize him. She kept up quoting the lies and this went >>>> thru >>>> a commercial break. After the break, he asked her some questions and >>>> she >>>> would not accept the fact that what was quoted in the Huffington Post >>>> was >>>> an intentional distortion. He even played a sound bit of his original >>>> statement >>>> that the girl was demonizing. Finally, he just called her on the radio >>>> a block head. >>>> >>>> Somewhere in the last political campaign, I came across a quote by >>>> an curmudgeon. >>>> A guy to takes on all sides. The quote reference what is free speech >>>> and pointed >>>> out that there were those using free speech to destroy the fundamental >>>> concepts >>>> written in the documents mentions in the first few paragraphs. His >>>> point was >>>> that free speech should not include speech or writings that were in >>>> essence 'Treasonous'. >>>> >>>> We are among a group that grasp the intent of the documents referred to, >>>> but >>>> are not reaching those like the girl who finally got called a block >>>> head. When >>>> we went to this forum, we had a few of the liberal thinkers. They have >>>> departed. >>>> Just like this girl on the radio, they accept progressivism as their >>>> religion. They >>>> have substituted statism for individual freedom. >>>> >>>> You said, "This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn >>>> out well. >>>> Ask Fan!" >>>> >>>> Just like Jihadist, the progressives believe that their ideology is the >>>> true way, >>>> or religion. >>>> >>>> And now we have the Haiti thing. You said, "Let's do what we can to >>>> help those >>>> most in need." >>>> >>>> This disaster is a multiedged sword. While the US is capable of >>>> clearing all the rubble, >>>> why is it our obligation? >>>> >>>> Where are the others making more than a nominal contribution. So now >>>> the US is >>>> obligated to clean up all disasters. Well you have illustrated often >>>> the effectiveness >>>> of the US in Louisiana. >>>> >>>> So we go and clean up. The result is the continued dependence of the >>>> local population >>>> on us, on others. What have we really done? >>>> >>>> With Obama's quest for government control, we have given him more people >>>> dependent >>>> on government, on others. Not exactly what the founders meant. We have >>>> made him feel >>>> good. We have made him look good. But what have we achieved? >>>> >>>> Ed K >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >> Churchill >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/dfd48ffb/attachment.html From hparsons at parsonsys.com Fri Jan 15 17:28:07 2010 From: hparsons at parsonsys.com (Herb Parsons) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:28:07 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] interesting interview In-Reply-To: <6634e19e1001151416h4e602098w45bf06f33a752a7d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5D33E730AE8548C483F38DC5BBB55327@YOURB88038198E> <5f889a891001150921ud3d5cc6w92919d56e0b7034a@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001150945j3c6aa151ka78dd57e2748168c@mail.gmail.com> <5f889a891001151323h2d9e6ef7y44d58eeb255b9242@mail.gmail.com> <6634e19e1001151416h4e602098w45bf06f33a752a7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f889a891001151428x685689f8g390ea4b2ac2366bf@mail.gmail.com> I had to smile at the "hard to sit and watch" part. While we were down there, I noticed that cell phones seldom worked, because there were no land lines working, and the cell towers were overloaded. However, almost always, I could still text message, even if I couldn't place a call (I've since found out the technical reasons for this, but that's another story). My wife insisted that I update her daily with information about what we had done. The second night out, I sent a short text message that said it was really a pain to type out these long descriptions on my phone... Boy did * she let me have it!!!!* **I'm sure I can find her response somewhere if I look hard enough, but instead I'll summarize: *Honey - you have the support of literally dozens (maybe more) people up here that have offered and sent prayers and money. They can't be there, you can. Update us daily. Love Gin.* I didn't complain again; however, Brad Mercer wrote about it *much* better than I could. Brad was my college roommate. He happened to be working a job that allowed him to take off, and I asked him if he wanted to go. He and I shared a few "adventures" throughout our friendship, and I thought he'd like this one. We lost Brad to cancer last year, and I still miss him terribly. What he wrote has been posted a few places, but the following link shows all three articles. The third one (which is the first one shown on the link) is by far the best, and still moves me every time I read it. http://www.suzettechristopher.org/BRAD.shtml On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Herb, > > Quite an experience indeed! Wish I could have been there. Honestly, it was > hard to sit up here in Minnesota and watch all that going on and being > unable to go lend a hand. > > Rik > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Herb Parsons wrote: > >> Long story, but here's the *very* short version. >> >> I had just gotten my 25 ton masters, sail and motor (and towing). A local >> startup company was doing DUKW tours on Lake Grapevine ( >> www.duckriders.com) Initially, the owner wanted drivers from two groups, >> firemen working on their days off, and licenses boat captains. So, I signed >> up. I never actually operated a DUKW for them on a tour (they lowered the >> pay, and shortened the schedule, so it never worked out), but I *did* do >> the training. Shortly after I signed on, Katrina hit, and the owner asked if >> someone licensed would be willing to operate the DUKW. I volunteered ( >> http://www.duckriders.com/history.aspx down near the bottom). It was >> quite an experience. >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> >>> Herb, >>> >>> Just curious, but what do you do that got you into a position to be >>> involved in the rescue ops in N.O.? >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Herb Parsons wrote: >>> >>>> "But when all is said and done they will not read history and >>>> understand what happened." >>>> This is the essence of the liberal left. They do not need to read >>>> about the past, because they are smarter, more educated, and more >>>> sophisticated than those who made history and wrote those documents. Don't >>>> believe it? Just ask them. They'll have a ton of like-minded believers to >>>> back them up. >>>> >>>> As to NO and Hati, I think that what Brad was encouraging was individual >>>> assistance, not assistance by the state (lower case, meaning the govt.). The >>>> advantage of individual assistance is that there is a higher level of >>>> accountability. When one's job is to "assist", then that person is motivated >>>> by something other than wanting to give temporary aid. >>>> >>>> I remember when I was in NO after Katrina. (Then) Governor Kathleen >>>> Blanco was reported in the news as saying they were not refusing supplies to >>>> the people that had chosen not to evacuate. I laughed when I heard that. >>>> Literally two days before, as I moved the DUKW around NO I had done exactly >>>> that. When offered a ride out of the mess, many folks opted to stay (there >>>> was a "mandatory" evacuation). Lots of folks said they'd wait, but wanted >>>> water supplies. I refused, and told them the water was for those leaving. I >>>> did it without blanching, and without hesitation. If someone decides to act >>>> a fool, I'm not going to empower them to appear less so. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: >>>> >>>>> Brad said, "Our founding fathers were well read and smart guys. >>>>> Maybe we should >>>>> look at the source documents, once again." >>>>> >>>>> I have a copy of the declaration of independence and the Constitution >>>>> of the USA in >>>>> a drawer by my right hand. I have quoted both on this forum and the >>>>> Rhodes forum. >>>>> >>>>> I have also quoted from Moses' contribution, the Ten Commandments. >>>>> It has been stated that our system is based on morality, writings of >>>>> Washington, Jefferson, et.al. >>>>> >>>>> The constitution provides governmental checks and balances. But those >>>>> checks >>>>> and balances must be used, applied. >>>>> >>>>> The letters, pamphlets and communications behind the declaration of >>>>> independence and Constitution are also relevant reading. >>>>> >>>>> And there are current writers whose analysis and expository on those >>>>> documents and application today are worth reading as you have so often >>>>> cited. >>>>> >>>>> It was years ago that I read a comment by the then President of Boise >>>>> Cascade Company of what he was looking for in subordinates. In essence >>>>> >>>>> he said, "Send me someone who reads". >>>>> >>>>> This forum, your references have helped a few of us do just that. >>>>> I have looked briefly at another forum and it is dominated by what >>>>> we call left wing thought, concepts and ideology. But when all is said >>>>> >>>>> and done they will not read history and understand what happened. >>>>> >>>>> While driving back from a morning at the Wood Workers Guild, I listened >>>>> >>>>> to Rush Limbaugh and a female caller. She was citing the Huffington >>>>> Post >>>>> and disparaging him. He tried to explain the quotes in the Huffington >>>>> post >>>>> were lies to demonize him. She kept up quoting the lies and this went >>>>> thru >>>>> a commercial break. After the break, he asked her some questions and >>>>> she >>>>> would not accept the fact that what was quoted in the Huffington Post >>>>> was >>>>> an intentional distortion. He even played a sound bit of his original >>>>> statement >>>>> that the girl was demonizing. Finally, he just called her on the radio >>>>> a block head. >>>>> >>>>> Somewhere in the last political campaign, I came across a quote by >>>>> an curmudgeon. >>>>> A guy to takes on all sides. The quote reference what is free speech >>>>> and pointed >>>>> out that there were those using free speech to destroy the fundamental >>>>> concepts >>>>> written in the documents mentions in the first few paragraphs. His >>>>> point was >>>>> that free speech should not include speech or writings that were in >>>>> essence 'Treasonous'. >>>>> >>>>> We are among a group that grasp the intent of the documents referred >>>>> to, but >>>>> are not reaching those like the girl who finally got called a block >>>>> head. When >>>>> we went to this forum, we had a few of the liberal thinkers. They have >>>>> departed. >>>>> Just like this girl on the radio, they accept progressivism as their >>>>> religion. They >>>>> have substituted statism for individual freedom. >>>>> >>>>> You said, "This Obama thing won't last. And if it does, it won't turn >>>>> out well. >>>>> Ask Fan!" >>>>> >>>>> Just like Jihadist, the progressives believe that their ideology is the >>>>> true way, >>>>> or religion. >>>>> >>>>> And now we have the Haiti thing. You said, "Let's do what we can to >>>>> help those >>>>> most in need." >>>>> >>>>> This disaster is a multiedged sword. While the US is capable of >>>>> clearing all the rubble, >>>>> why is it our obligation? >>>>> >>>>> Where are the others making more than a nominal contribution. So now >>>>> the US is >>>>> obligated to clean up all disasters. Well you have illustrated often >>>>> the effectiveness >>>>> of the US in Louisiana. >>>>> >>>>> So we go and clean up. The result is the continued dependence of the >>>>> local population >>>>> on us, on others. What have we really done? >>>>> >>>>> With Obama's quest for government control, we have given him more >>>>> people dependent >>>>> on government, on others. Not exactly what the founders meant. We >>>>> have made him feel >>>>> good. We have made him look good. But what have we achieved? >>>>> >>>>> Ed K >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the >>> inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston >>> Churchill >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > -- > The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the > inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery ....Winston > Churchill > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100115/70d935b0/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 02:30:36 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 01:30:36 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Haiti In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400985d71001152330u7021cf68x32d7ce4d6b36a4d0@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Based on my one time experience with a major natural disaster, chaos rules. The first thing that has to be done is "push crews" move crap out of the street so rescue crews can get to victims. The victims need water and food. I just got back from Asia and am sorting through a substantial volume of e-mails from fellow crewmembers who are volunteering their time to fly supplies to Haiti. The Salvation Army and Red Cross are experts at this - the local governments - not so much. In fact, the Haiti government is so corrupt that any direct aid will be pocketed. They need water and food. Forget the US government making a difference. Donate money to Red Cross and the Salvation Army. Those two organizations are honest and they know what they are doing. Been there, done that. These people need help. Let's help them. Be smart about it! Brad On 1/14/10, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Bill, > > Thank you for the report. > > Here in Greenville, SC, we also get inside information. > > Here in the evangelical south, a local church maintains a mission and church > building in Haiti. It seems that a group of 12 of their group flew out of > Haiti about 12 hours before the quake. > > They have apparently heard of the devastation from the couple that they left > behind to maintain the church. They promptly reported to the local talk > radio this morning. > > Ed K > > From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 16 07:12:53 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 07:12:53 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Haiti Message-ID: <515BB11AFC524D6E88E836BD6F528F1A@YOURB88038198E> Brad said, "The Salvation Army and Red Cross are experts at this - the local governments - not so much." The American Red Cross has gotten bureaucratic and politically correct. I would suggest that the Salvation Army is still more altruistic. While a religion based charitable structure, that is what keeps them lean and altruistic. It is hard for those who will not publically read the Bible to be involved, so those who seeking to use it to get power or feel good, typically find other organizations such as the Red Cross. Just my critical observation. "In fact, the Haiti government is so corrupt that any direct aid will be pocketed." Explain how that is different from the Obama administration? "They (people in Haiti) need water and food. Forget the US government making a difference." Political correctness, bureacracy and corruption have brought use to this. "Donate money to Red Cross and the Salvation Army." I would limit that to Salvation Army or independent churches who already have a evangelical mission there. Locally in South Carolina we have a couple of groups working down there. While you may not support their religion and ultimate purpose, they do real good in helping small groups. They do teach reading and writing so that their parishioners can read the Bible. They teach hygiene and basic skills to the students in the small schools that they run. "Those two organizations are honest and they know what they are doing." As to American Red Cross being honest, I would suggest that is true to extent of the volunteers, but because they are politically correct and bureaucratic, there are issues that are not a matter of open discourse and disclosure. But the American Red Cross's political connections do open doors for them to do good. Ed K Addendum: "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100116/d21c931f/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 16 11:36:27 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 11:36:27 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] bipartisan reading Message-ID: <8BF65FE9EC1B44589EF17820DCDA0118@YOURB88038198E> Here is some bipartisan reading: What Karl Rove got wrong on the U.S. deficit By David Axelrod Friday, January 15, 2010 For its Topic A feature last Sunday, The Post invited a panel of political operatives to offer their advice to the Democratic Party on strategy for 2010 [Sunday Opinion, Jan. 10]. Improbably, one of the operatives asked was Karl Rove, President George W. Bush's longtime chief strategist. This Story What Rove got wrong on the debt - Democratic strategies for 2010 Rove has some impressive campaign victories to his credit. But given the shape in which the last administration left this country, I'm not sure I would solicit his advice. And given the backhanded advice he offered, I'm not sure he was all that eager to help. Of all the claims Rove made, one in particular caught my eye for its sheer audacity and shamelessness -- that congressional Democrats "will run up more debt by October than Bush did in eight years." So, let's review a little history: The day the Bush administration took over from President Bill Clinton in 2001, America enjoyed a $236 billion budget surplus -- with a projected 10-year surplus of $5.6 trillion. When the Bush administration left office, it handed President Obama a $1.3 trillion deficit -- and projected shortfalls of $8 trillion for the next decade. During eight years in office, the Bush administration passed two major tax cuts skewed to the wealthiest Americans, enacted a costly Medicare prescription-drug benefit and waged two wars, without paying for any of it. To put the breathtaking scope of this irresponsibility in perspective, the Bush administration's swing from surpluses to deficits added more debt in its eight years than all the previous administrations in the history of our republic combined. And its spending spree is the unwelcome gift that keeps on giving: Going forward, these unpaid-for policies will continue to add trillions to our deficit. This fiscal irresponsibility -- and a laissez-faire attitude toward the excesses of the financial industry -- helped create the conditions for the deepest economic catastrophe since the Great Depression. Economists across the political spectrum agreed that to deal with this crisis and avoid a second Great Depression, the government had to make significant investments to keep our economy going and shore up our financial system. That is why President Obama and Congress crafted the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Despite Rove's assertion, it is widely accepted that the difficult but necessary steps Obama took have helped save our economy from an even deeper disaster. And while Rove conveniently ignores that it was President Bush - not Obama -- who signed into law the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program bailout for banks, the Obama administration's rigorous stewardship added transparency and accountability that have cut the expected cost of that program by two-thirds. At the same time, we also recognize that we need to address the long legacy of overspending in Washington. That is why, shortly after taking office, Obama instructed his agency heads to go through the budget page by page, line by line, to eliminate what we don't need to help pay for what we do. As a start, the president proposed billions of dollars in cuts, and he'll continue to fight for them and others in the upcoming budget. An analysis by the Washington Times concluded that in this first year, Obama had been more successful in getting his proposed cuts through Congress than his predecessor was in any of his eight years in office. And even as Obama has pursued landmark health insurance reforms that will hold the insurance industry accountable and expand coverage to working Americans, he has insisted from the beginning that any reform legislation must not add to the federal deficit and must help reduce it over time. According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the legislation making its way through Congress upholds this principle. As the president has said, the federal budget is like an ocean liner, not a motor boat, and it will take time to redirect its course. But the course correction that was so badly needed after the previous administration has begun in earnest. There's an old saying that everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. The next time Karl Rove would like to offer us some advice, I'd urge him to take that to heart. The writer is a senior adviser to President Barack Obama. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100116/9b5e18c4/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 16 16:44:10 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:44:10 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] for Brad... Message-ID: <9F8941645CAA4A9BB40A2E85136D07E3@YOURB88038198E> Brad, As you get older, jet lag increases lag time... Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100116/c708fcb6/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Jan 16 16:51:34 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:51:34 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] special reply to Elle ... Message-ID: Elle posted: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2010-January/002863.html Jim Demint said thank you. And he promised not to get too big headed. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100116/52a39437/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 19:42:00 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:42:00 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown Mock Ad Message-ID: <400985d71001161642o27b6fd2bx8dde598b3a008659@mail.gmail.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcFVRQi3ZEo&feature=player_embedded Keep your fingers crossed, he's ahead in almost all the polls. Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 19:52:10 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:52:10 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Brown Mock Ad In-Reply-To: <400985d71001161642o27b6fd2bx8dde598b3a008659@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001161642o27b6fd2bx8dde598b3a008659@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d71001161652j12db4e51we1b19cfa7e67f2b6@mail.gmail.com> Another funny one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OM5udILoC4&feature=player_embedded This race has really gotten ugly in the last 24 hours. It now has the fingerprints of Chicago politics all over it and Obama is personally visiting tomorrow because of what is at stake. Even Bostonian die-hard Democrats and liberals are becoming disgusted with the tactics. Here's your change! Brad On 1/16/10, Brad Haslett wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcFVRQi3ZEo&feature=player_embedded > > Keep your fingers crossed, he's ahead in almost all the polls. > > Brad > From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Sat Jan 16 19:53:53 2010 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:53:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] special reply to Elle ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <501876.25769.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Ed, I've heard him speak on TV several times and was impressed by his low-key and measured tone. He makes sense. ellle --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Ed Kroposki wrote: From: Ed Kroposki Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] special reply to Elle ... To: "Swift Water" Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 4:51 PM Elle posted: ? http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/2010-January/002863.html ? Jim Demint said thank you.? And he promised not to get too big headed. ? Ed K -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100116/b32385c2/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 20:35:13 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:35:13 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Scott Heard Around The World Message-ID: <400985d71001161735x4bf93cf3q88bfc13d9a2bda6b@mail.gmail.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nEoW-P81-0&feature=player_embedded Send mo money! Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 02:52:17 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:52:17 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Few Good Men (And Women) Message-ID: <400985d71001162352m7c9b5d6fm50e0313a305f9bc8@mail.gmail.com> All eyes are on Mass and what happens on Tuesday. It is rumored that Lieberman may endorse Brown tomorrow. We'll see. Either way, the battle continues onward to NOV 2010. I've decided to focus on two races, Southern Florida and Northern Illinois. My congresscritter, Marsha Blackburn, is a shoe-in for another term. BTW, if Harold Ford, Jr. runs for the Senate in NY and you live in NY, give him a good look. I almost voted for him for the US Senate here in Tennessee. I'm glad I didn't but he's a good man - unlike his father. This is the "kid" who called to personally thank me for a donation. I hope he makes it through the primary. http://www.electadam.com/ Now this guy, Allen West, needs to run for POTUS some day. Below is the latest e-mail I got from his campaign and following that, an article about him from December. History often changes on what appears to be minor events at the time. Tuesday, January 19, 2010 could be a major date in American politics. What can Brown do for you? Save our country from bankruptcy for one thing. Brad ---------------- Greetings, On 10 Jan. 2010 a massive 7.0 level earthquake hit the Country of Haiti just off Port-au-Prince. It is with the highest degree of sincerity of heart that I extend my condolences to the people of Haiti, as well as to those here in the US who have been affected. I have many a close association with members of the American Haitian community here in South Florida. The loss of life in such a tragic manner is horrendous and we must all do what we can to alleviate the pain and suffering of the people of Haiti. I also want to commend the Men and Women of our Armed Forces who always make the transition from Warrior to benevolent protector in times of natural disaster. We all remember their service to the people of Indonesia after the tsunami and the people of Pakistan after the earthquake there. I ask that the people of Haiti welcome those who are truly the best America has to offer and not allow roving gangs to turn against those who seek to provide comfort, stability, and relief... as we saw in Somalia. The small Nation of Haiti, part of the greater island of Hispaniola, has an incredible history. Haiti declared its independence on 1 Jan 1804 becoming the first independent Nation in Latin America. Haiti is the first post-colonial independent black led Nation in the world, and the only Nation whose independence was gained as part of a successful slave rebellion. Haiti is the only predominantly Francophone independent Nation in the Americas. Lastly, it is one of only two independent Nations, Canada the other, that designates French as an official language. The revolution which occurred in Haiti was inspired by the French Revolution, which was inspired by the American Revolution. It was a revolution focused on freeing the indomitable human will. Haiti must now be freed again. It must be freed from the enslavement that has resulted in being the poorest Nation in the Americas... one of the poorest and least developed in the world. It is an enslavement which has produced devastating illiteracy. It is an enslavement which has created a dependency whereby 30-40% of its government budget comes from foreign aid... it is an enslavement that has continually produced despots and failed leadership. As we work to restore Haiti, the short term focus is indeed to provide relief and system infrastructure repair. However, in the long term let us be committed to rebuilding not just buildings, but the independent human will for which Haiti first sought freedom. Let our investment in Haiti be not just about giving them hammocks, but ladders in order to climb to greater achievement and provide a viable safety net when necessary. I say let this earthquake result in the catalyst to recommit Haiti to a second Independence Day, 206 years after their first. As a future US Congressman that is my commitment to the people of Haiti, empowerment, not enslavement. I ask, will the people of Haiti and American Haitians share that vision with me? Faithful and True, Lieutenant Colonel Allen B West (US Army, Ret.) ------------------ The Second Battle of Boca Raton BY Jamie Weinstein December 16, 2009 10:00 AM In 2003, Allen West was facing a possible court martial hearing that could have put him in prison. Responsible for over six hundred men as a Lieutenant-Colonel in Iraq, West conducted a harsh interrogation in which he fired gun shots near the head of an Iraqi police officer he suspected of withholding information about a plot to kill him and some of the soldiers under his command. At a hearing over the incident, West defiantly declared that "if it's about the life of my men, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can." And though he said he may not have used the right methods, "if he had to err," he declared, "I would err on the side of not losing my soldiers." Taking into account mitigating factors, the Army opted not to pursue a full court martial, though it did fine West and relieve him of his command, effectively ending his highly decorated 20-plus year Army career. Six years later the only person the retired Army warrior threatens is Democratic Congressman Ron Klein of Florida's 22nd Congressional District. The second term congressman won his seat in the picturesque South Florida district by unseating 13-term Republican representative Clay Shaw in 2006, a disastrous year for Republican incumbents. West, who worked as a high-school history teacher and then a civilian adviser to the U.S. military in Afghanistan after his retirement from the Army, first decided to take a shot at Klein's congressional seat in 2008. Despite the lack of support by the national party, a near 8 to 1 fundraising disadvantage, and a year in which a popular Democratic presidential nominee was on the ballot, West was able mount a strong showing against Klein, garnering 45% of the vote. Spurred by this better than expected performance, West, 48, is back for a rematch in 2010. "No matter what you achieve in 22 years in the military, coming into politics is a brand new game," West told me during a recent interview at a Starbucks in Plantation, Florida. "So the party at the state and the national level wasn't too happy with me because I didn't come with millions of dollars in my pocket. But I did come with what I think a lot of people are looking for which is honor, integrity, and character." Over the course of the hour-long interview, it became abundantly clear that while West may be running for political office, he wasn't an ordinary politician. "There are three words I hate to hear used. I hate big-tent. I hate inclusiveness. And I hate outreach. I think you stand on the principles that make you great, which transcend everybody in America, and people will come to it," West said, outlining the uncompromising way he approaches politics. Growing up lower-middle class and black in Atlanta's inner city, West views America as a place where you can achieve anything if you work hard and stand on principle. His father raised him to believe education is important and West heeded the lesson en route to obtaining two master's degrees in addition to his undergraduate degree. "An empty wagon makes a lot of noise so you should always fill yourself with knowledge so you don't go out and you aren't just sounding and clanging like a symbol," West says--a lesson his father preached to him as a boy. "Education was heavily stressed, and I think that is what you see in my life." Having spent 22 years as an officer in the military, West has strong opinions on foreign policy. He said that American leaders need a better understanding of the "Islamic terrorist enemy that we are up against." "If we continue to show this enemy that we do not have the resolve and the resilience to stand and fight them, they are going to continue to press the attack," West said. As for the threat of a nuclear armed Iran, West believes that if the mullahs who rule the Islamic Republic "get a nuclear devise, they are going to use it" to hasten their apocalyptic vision. And since West does not see how another sanctions regime could possibly dissuade the Islamic Republic from pursuing their quest for nuclear weapons, he sees as the only option a targeted strike on Iran's nuclear installations not too dissimilar from the air raid Israel conducted against Syria's suspected nuclear program in 2007. "Sooner or later we are going to have to do the exact same thing [in Iran]," West explained. "Either Israel is going to do it and we are going to back their call. Or we are going to have to do it.... You cannot continue to give concessions to a mad man." The 22nd district contains a large Jewish population, and in West these constituents will find a champion of the U.S.-Israel relationship. Indeed, West sees the survival and continued success of Israel as a harbinger of the survival and continued success of Western civilization. "If we don't take a stand and honor what we did in 1947 with the creation of the State of Israel," West said, "it shows that we are not committed to the principles we believe in Western Civilization: the rule of law, individual rights and freedoms, the democratic state. We will let autocrats and theocrats overtake that country. And then we are next. Israel is the canary in the coalmine." As for the Palestinians, West sees them as victims of their own leadership, in particular, and the Arab world, generally. On the domestic front, West sees the Democratic agenda predicated on a liberal ideology that "needs victims" and for "people to be dependent upon them because that is how they stay in power." Speaking of his own experience growing up in inner city Atlanta, West draws a dichotomy between the conservative vision and the liberal vision for his life. "The conservative sees me as a young man that if I keep my nose clean, if I stay disciplined, if I get an education, I have the equal opportunity as anyone else to rise and be great in this country," West said. "The liberal on the other side would come down and see me and say, 'Well, you know, you live in a pretty bad neighborhood.' It makes them feel better to see me as a victim. And it makes them feel better to come down and say we'll give you just enough to get by because, you know, we feel bad about you. They see it as equal achievement. They see it as needing affirmative action programs where you lower standards just so you can get it. That is not what I agree with." It is through this prism that West views the current Democratic proposal on health care. "It does not take 2,000 pages and it does not take the creation of almost 110 more government agencies to reform our health care system," West said. "It comes back to controlling you and your decision" which is "anathema" to "what this country is about." What's West solution? "We have to recommit to the foundational values that made this country great and it starts with the Constitution and understanding our Founding Fathers." It doesn't take long to discover that West is not a huge fan of President Obama and his agenda. "I think that [President Obama] believes that the government is the end all and be all that can solve all issues and problems," West said. "And we know that in 233 years the public sector didn't build America, the private sector did. Individual Americans did." As West begins his campaign to unseat Klein, he is getting the support of the national Republican party that he lacked in 2008. A recent press release by the National Republican Congressional Committee lists West as a candidate who is "on the radar." "If he had the same money as Ron Klein, Allen would win by 20 points," Palm Beach County Republican Chairman Sid Dinerstein told me. "You wouldn't have to have an election.... If you meet him, you vote for him." That said, Dinerstein still sees West as the underdog and his campaign's success tied, at least in part, to the political mood of the country next November. "It is going to be a huge Republican year next year," Dinerstein proffered. "The only question is how huge?" As my interview with West came to a close, I asked West if he wanted to respond to liberal MSNBC commentator Keith Olbermann, who recently included West in his Worst Person in the World segment for an article he wrote on the Ft. Hood massacre. West said his inclusion on the list means that he is "doing a great job." "I am on their radar screen and they know I am a threat," he said. After thinking about it a little longer, West added, "maybe one day Keith Olbermann and I will get to meet and I can ask him, you know, why he is such a sucky commentator." No doubt conservatives would be lining up to watch such a colorful encounter. It would be all the more enthralling if this former Army warrior faced down the liberal MSNBC host from his position as a United States congressman. Jamie Weinstein is columnist for The North Star National. From ekroposki at charter.net Sun Jan 17 06:31:50 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 06:31:50 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] replies Message-ID: <9457AE191974490C9030EAAE1BB4ABA5@YOURB88038198E> Brad, I am sure he is a good guy, but all the non New Yorkers running for a New York Senate seat? There are some people who turned out to be good guys who grew up in New York and would represent that state well. Carpet baggers be damned no matter how well intended. Along with term limits there should be a residency requirement for running for office. 10 years would be a good number for a statewide office. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100117/ca8dcde9/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sun Jan 17 06:39:28 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 06:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Another Mass. youtube off the internet Message-ID: I get the idea that the internet has taken the place of press. Here is another youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiM6JAQZwHI&feature=player_embedded These are getting to be expensive productions. Best they start calling the guys and gals who produce this stuff 'journalist'. Having been on the street in political campaigns, remember all this stuff is window dressing. The get out the vote committees of each party are what gets out the vote. Heretofore, it has been shown over and over that most people just do not vote. So many people say they are not interested in politics. Just look at the Rhodes List. Ugh. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100117/effc401d/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 10:35:40 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 09:35:40 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Construction Message-ID: <400985d71001170735t2c48537el66630caaae2c671a@mail.gmail.com> How many other little surprises are waiting for us in the bill that no one read? http://tinyurl.com/ygdt9gq The construction industry isn't exactly on fire as it is, and you can bet that when it bounces back, there will be a lot of 38 hour work weeks for the 5th through 50th employee to get around this nonsense. I'm not sure Stalin or Mao ever tried to micro-manage their economies to this degree. Brad From elginalexander at erols.com Sun Jan 17 12:40:39 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (Elgin Alexander) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:40:39 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Oil Shortage Message-ID: I thought everyone would enjoy the following answer I have recently been given as to why there is an oil shortage in America. The answer was really very simple. Nobody bothered to check for oil. We just didn't know we were getting low. The reason is purely geographical. All of our oil is in Alaska, Texas, California, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. However, all our dipsticks are in Washington, D.C. Elgin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100117/698e704b/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sun Jan 17 19:52:28 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:52:28 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Treasury To Force 401-k And IRA Savings Into Treasury Bonds Message-ID: Treasury To Force 401-k And IRA Savings Into Treasury Bonds http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?t=9687 http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1830-401kIRA-Screw-Job-Coming.html http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/ Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100117/e30a45be/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 22:55:25 2010 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:55:25 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Tale of Two Hecklers Message-ID: <400985d71001171955l4d104083m8229a276e6ba129e@mail.gmail.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJIg3c-rg3g&feature=player_embedded versus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZpmzJu06M The first happened in Boston today, in a hall they didn't fill, on a university campus. I'm guessing replacement light bulbs for halos are damned expensive! Brad From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 18 00:11:06 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:11:06 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Tale of Two Hecklers In-Reply-To: <400985d71001171955l4d104083m8229a276e6ba129e@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d71001171955l4d104083m8229a276e6ba129e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001172111h196bc398hdec610489120fcb6@mail.gmail.com> Brad, Here's some suggestions that haven't been tried yet to get the Coakley campaign up and running again. Wha'da ya think? Rik A Suggestion For The White House And Coakley Campaign posted at 12:53 pm on January 17, 2010 by Doctor Zero printer-friendly Things are not looking good for the Coakley campaign in Massachusetts. Her Republican challenger, Scott Brown, has soared into the lead in most polls. President Obama has stepped in to help the desperate Democrat, telling voters that Martha Coakley?s presence in the Senate is essential for the passage of his health care bill. Liberal commentator Ed Schultz has declaredthat a Coakley defeat would spell the ?end of Hope and Change,? effectively reducing Obama to a lame duck after only one year in office. This would come as welcome news to an increasingly large majority of Americans, but it?s obviously not the ending Obama wanted to write for his ?historic? presidency. Conservatives, meanwhile, have passionately supported the generally moderate Brown, because he can kill the health-care bill before it escapes the bloody ruin of its birth in the mess hall, and finds a nice hiding place in the cargo bay, where it can grow into an unstoppable acid-blooded monster that could devour us all. Both sides agree that Tuesday?s special election may decide the fate of the Democrats? bid to take over the health-care system. I have a modest suggestion for the White House: given the stakes, why not simply promise the people of Massachusetts free health insurance for life, if they vote for Coakley? It?s a perfectly reasonable strategy, given the other special concessions and payoffs that have been needed to drag ObamaCare this far. Non-unionized Americans will be compelled to subsidize lower taxes on the ?Cadillac? health care plans of far wealthier union workers. Exactly one state in the union, Nebraska, will receive full Medicaid funding, because that was the dollar value of Senator Ben Nelson?s pro-life beliefs. Hundreds of other payoffs are hidden inside the Senate and House bills, to be periodically discovered by bleary-eyed staffers after the latest two-thousand page printout thuds onto their desks. The elaborate restrictions and rationing of the final, twisted product of these negotiations will *never *apply to the ruling class. Top Party officials will never have to stand before the death panels, to be told their cancer treatments are an expensive gamble the state cannot afford. No one will ever tell Michelle Obama that she has to wait for a mammogram. Why not simply extend the Cadillac Escalade SUV benefits of the ruling class to everyone in Massachusetts, if they vote Coakley in? The population of the state is only a little over six million. Toss another hundred billion dollars on the deficit, and it?s all taken care of. Giving free health care to Massachusetts would be a terrific stimulus for the state?s moribund economy. Doubtless it would attract both new residents eager to cash in on those benefits, and health-care providers hungry for government subsidies and ObamaCare insurance payouts. And once the system inevitably generates to single-payer socialized medicine, and the hard-core rationing kicks in, you?d have *tons *of shovel-ready projects down at the local cemetary! If providing free insurance for all the residents of Massachusetts proves too expensive, we could always limit the benefits to people who actually vote for Coakley. Does that seem offensive to the spirit of democracy? Why should it be any more of an outrage than the payoffs needed to get us this far? President Obama says we?re at the ?precipice? of health-care reform. This is no time to become faint-hearted, or fussy about silly old documents written by long-dead white slaveholders who absent-mindedly forgot to add medical insurance as an ?inalienable right.? If health-care reform is an absolute good that justifies the river of lies and corruption flowing from the Obama White House, surely it can justify one last, juicy slice of pork for the voters of the Commonwealth, to help our great nation get over that precipice. Will underwriting a few million free health-insurance policies bankrupt our Treasury? Heck, it?s already *far *beyond bankrupt. The future generations who are already paying for the Obama agenda should be proud to pony up a little more, to get us past Tuesday?s crucial vote. Their teachers will doubtless instruct them on the unthinkable consequences of allowing America?s first black president to go down in history as an epic failure. They?ll ask if adding a few more percentage points to their gigantic tax bills is worth avoiding the nasty, brutish, and short lives of Americans in the pre-ObamaCare dark ages. Doubtless our grandchildren will applaud their role in financing the total State we bequeath them. The rest of America has never properly thanked the people of Massachusetts for thirty years of Ted Kennedy?s wise Senate leadership. We should be willing to dig deep, and pay any price to keep Scott Brown from blocking the Kennedy legacy of total government power over the individual? especially since he would be doing it from a Senate seat he foolishly thinks is the property of America. The core belief of progressive thought, in the age of Obama, is that nothing belongs to *anyone *unless the government allows it. If Coakley wins on Tuesday, we will come one step closer to extending that principle over every cell in your body. *Cross-posted at www.doczero.org.* On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJIg3c-rg3g&feature=player_embedded > > versus > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZpmzJu06M > > The first happened in Boston today, in a hall they didn't fill, on a > university campus. I'm guessing replacement light bulbs for halos are > damned expensive! > Brad, > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -- 'There are many things that I believe that I shall never say. But I shall never say the things that I do not believe.' ?. Immanuel Kant -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100117/538310fd/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Mon Jan 18 07:55:13 2010 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:55:13 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Tale of Two Hecklers Message-ID: <7CE3550E702A4461952675082EB9BB51@YOURB88038198E> Rik, As your 'hot air' commentator said, they will vote the dead, and vote often. Keep in mind the corrupt nature of the National Democratic Party in certain areas. Remember that they will be writing absentee ballots for the next 10 days. It is not over until the fat lady sings. And they are already twisting arms in the House to accept the Senate version just to pass a bill! Maybe it is time for you to hook up the trailer to your Flicka and tow south for a few weeks just to recharge its batteries. Go visit Brad's brother on the Gulf Coast. Or go further east on the Gulf coast to the Florida panhandle, just to get away and maybe go fishing? The panhandle has been hit with how many hurricanes? Yet it is still there. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100118/06a68c40/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 18 09:24:17 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:24:17 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Tale of Two Hecklers In-Reply-To: <7CE3550E702A4461952675082EB9BB51@YOURB88038198E> References: <7CE3550E702A4461952675082EB9BB51@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <6634e19e1001180624t69329d76qb75a6f994dfa87af@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Truth be known, we have been looking at going to Florida at the end of the month. BUT, it's been so damned cold down there I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble. I've been in Florida when it's in the 30s ... it's miserable as hell. A buddy of mine is going racing down there at Volusia county which is between Orlando and Daytona, he invited me to tag along and help out. When we're done with that, we've got a couple old friends up at Panama City that we could stop and visit for a bit. I could probably go whether it's cold or not and get by OK, but Sandy can't deal with living outdoors if it's going to be like that. Rik On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Rik, > > As your 'hot air' commentator said, they will vote the dead, and vote > often. Keep in mind the corrupt nature of the National Democratic Party in > certain areas. > > Remember that they will be writing absentee ballots for the next 10 days. > It is not over until the fat lady sings. > > And they are already twisting arms in the House to accept the Senate > version just to pass a bill! > > Maybe it is time for you to hook up the trailer to your Flicka and tow > south for a few weeks just to recharge its batteries. Go visit Brad's > brother on the Gulf Coast. > > Or go further east on the Gulf coast to the Florida panhandle, just to get > away and maybe go fishing? > > The panhandle has been hit with how many hurricanes? Yet it is still > there. > > Ed K > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- 'There are many things that I believe that I shall never say. But I shall never say the things that I do not believe.' ?. Immanuel Kant -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100118/db420069/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 18 11:28:41 2010 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:28:41 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] What is it that makes journalists Message-ID: <6634e19e1001180828q36f4bdb7mb4639cf9fc1c7855@mail.gmail.com> Good morning All, What is it that makes journalists all, or mostly, want to lay down under the thumb of government? This is a question that has been bothering me for years. My respect for Cronkite just went down the toilet after this commentary from Bill Whittle. Millions have fought and bled and sometimes died for what we have in this country. What possible incentive could we have to give up any of our sovereignty for the chance to embrace the ways of other countries that have never come close to our level of success and freedom? Who could be so foolish as to see doing that as an improvement? Here's a link to Whittle's latest Afterburner show. If I could vote this man president .... http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=video&video-id=2955 Rik -- 'There are many things that I believe that I shall never say. But I shall never say the things that I do not believe.' ?. Immanuel Kant -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20100118/f2b575cf/attachment.html From elginalexander at erols.com Mon Jan 18 15:05:10 2010 From: elginalexander at erols.com (Elgin Alexander) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:05:10 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Health Care Bill Message-ID: <00DEBD11B6684DF587BCA48AEAFE6B8E@Xanthus> Just in case there might still be anyone wondering, The Truth About Health Care Michael Connelly, Ret. Constitutional Attorney Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected. To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession. The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government. However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed. The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own. The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.. This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion