From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 08:21:59 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:21:59 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Foreign Policy and The One Message-ID: <400985d70902010521o2ada09dcp2afde3de3cd5a7da@mail.gmail.com> It is no small secret that most conservatives (of which I am one) and most Christian conservatives (which I make no claim to be other than family tradition) are hard core supporters of Israel. Neither is it a secret that the hard core left is very anti-Israel, especially on college campuses. For that reason alone, it caught the attention of many of us this week that Samantha Power was "drug out from beneath the bus" and given a position in the Obama administration. I found it a bit curious that yesterday, President Obama thanked the UN for their efforts overseeing a peaceful election in Iraq, but failed to mention the 130,000 US soldiers still serving there, the hundreds of thousands of others who have served there, and the 4000+ who made the ultimate sacrifice so this election, the second in the young democracy's history, could take place. Obama only recognized the UN. Exactly what did the UN contribute to democratic Iraq? Ms. Power is on record for supporting the US occupation of Israel. No one bothered to pin down The One during the campaign on any specific issue relating to the Middle East (he was here, he was there, he was for everyone and no one in particular) so now might be a good time for HIM to give us some better insight into his "vision". BTW, Iraq officially recognizes Israel's right to exist and Christmas is an official Iraqi holiday - for what it's worth. Posted below is an article about the UN and Israel. I'm assuming that once Obama is finished writing his Valentine's Day card to "Imadinnerjacket" he'll address Durban II. Brad --------------- The UN's insanity continues By Anne Bayefsky Friday, January 30th 2009, 4:00 AM The United Nations "anti-racism" forum, known as Durban II, is becoming a more important test for President Obama's multilateralist ambitions with each passing day. Durban I was the anti-Semitic hatefest that ended three days before 9/11. Durban II - the UN equivalent of the Son of Sam - will take place in April in Geneva. Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni has called on Obama not to legitimize the meeting, or its message, and not to attend. Canada has decided to stay away. But Obama has still not decided whether the United States will go. This Wednesday, however, the stakes got a lot higher with the UN's release of the latest negotiating text. Negotiators have now put on the table claims that (1) a homeland for the Jewish people is racism - a "racially based law of return," (2) Israel is guilty of "apartheid" and (3) the veracity of the murder of one-third of the Jewish people during the Holocaust is subject to question. A reference to Holocaust facts has now been "square-bracketed" because Iran and Syria have questioned the numbers of Jews that died and consensus is the only guiding principle governing the decision-making process. In total, six provisions are dedicated to demonizing Israel as racist. Not one of the other 191 UN states is mentioned. The intention is clear: the political defeat of Israel in the same vein as apartheid South Africa, because repeated attempts at a military defeat of Israel have failed. But Israel is not the only target of Islamic and Arab states and their developing world partners. The draft takes straight aim at freedom of expression and counterterrorism. Free speech should supposedly be curtailed by new laws against "projecting negative, insulting and derogatory images of religions and religious personalities" and the introduction of "a code of ethical conduct" for the media. Counterterrorism activities are "obstacles hampering progress in the collective struggle against racism." At the top of the agenda is the creation of a hierarchy of human rights victims with "Muslim minorities" topping matters of concern. "The intellectual and ideological validation of Islamophobia" is a "most disturbing phenomenon," the agenda says. "Anti-Arabism" is introduced as intolerance of a religious minority. Religions, instead of individuals, can be defamed. Calls are made to preserve "religious and cultural identities" without reference to universal rights and freedoms. Broad condemnation of "any advocacy of racial or religious hatred which constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence" is coupled with a refusal to require any finding by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal and a fair and public hearing. In other words, Durban II is a frontal assault on universal human rights and freedoms by religious fundamentalists. The European Union members have consistently participated in the Durban process from 2001 until today, approving the conference and its agenda. Although some EU states have vigorously protested the offensive draft provisions, they have been totally unable to prevail at each step of the way. Because full democracies are a minority in the UN, and the Organization of the Islamic Conference dominates the developing world, they stand no chance of winning on the numbers alone. Western diplomats, therefore, encourage the operating principle of consensus. The consensus requirement leaves the radicals with a controlling interest. As a result, Iran is a vice president of the executive committee of the Durban II drafting group and took the floor to voice its "human rights" preferences more often than any other state during last week's negotiating session. The chairman of the drafting committee repeatedly asked Iran if it agreed with proposals, or suggested to the EU that it negotiate agreed language with Iran. When the meeting ended last Friday, the very first state to express its satisfaction with the preparations for this conference was Iran. Though the Iranian president openly advocates genocide and denies the Holocaust, his representative cooed, "We hope we will continue in the same spirit with our work. Thank you, Mr. Chairman." Most important for the new Obama administration, this is not a dialogue from which democratic states or values can emerge triumphant. The multilateral reality is that without the numbers to prevail, the EU will agree on an outcome regardless of the sacrifices required to achieve consensus. The first lamb to be sacrificed will be "racist Israel," just as the EU allowed in Durban I. In fact, the first Durban conference - where the United States and Israel walked out - is a good indicator of EU strategy at the United Nations: It is not prepared to walk away. This outlook, of course, is well-known to the anti-human-rights crowd. Consequently, they hold out until the end, throw the EU a bone as a "compromise" and watch them hold news conferences for the hometown crowds feigning success. Durban II, therefore, presents a major test of Obama's multilateral prowess. If he decides to go, he will legitimize a human rights fraud. American values and interests will be pushed to the fringes while the Europeans hang onto center stage - negotiating with anti-human-rights extremists. In the end, Obama will either have to abandon human rights victims, including Jews, or be forced to walk out and denounce the "consensus" - leaving him marginalized early in his administration. The obvious solution is both to maintain the status quo for the last 71/2 years - U.S. nonparticipation in the Durban forum - and launch energetic efforts to fashion a more advantageous playing field for multilateral engagement. Skillfully addressed, this is an opportunity to encourage multilateralism that promotes, rather than defeats, universal rights and freedoms. Bayefsky is a professor at Touro College New York and a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 10:34:35 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 09:34:35 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Amazon In-Reply-To: <49847F43.4010904@effros.com> References: <49847F43.4010904@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902010734y3f8202fdk97ce9fbb971270b3@mail.gmail.com> Bill, Technically, the sellers on Amazon are supposed to collect sales tax from buyers located in the same state. Where is Amazon based? I'm clueless, but would caution whatever state it is to not get to creative or greedy. Once upon a time there was a small start-up company in Little Rock, AR that had this crazy idea of cutting holes in the side of little jets and hauling packages. The State of Arkansas got greedy and decided to collect sales tax on every package that flowed through the hub. The short version of a long story is the company moved to Memphis, Tennessee. Whatever state Amazon is based in should stay content with collecting income taxes off their profits and not try and "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs". OK, forget I said that, of course they'll eventually do something stupid. Frankly, I think our tax revenue problems have been solved. If every single Obama Administration nominee just pays his/hers unpaid taxes, we'll have revenue flowing like we never dreamed. Brad On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Bill Effros wrote: > Excuse me, folks, but I shop at Amazon because you pay no sales tax. > Wonder how well they will do if you have to pay tax for their goods like > everyone else. Wonder how long it will take the geniuses in government > to figure out that raising sales taxes on everybody else, but not > Amazon, won't work. > > Amazon's entire profit would be eaten up if they had to pay tax on what > they sold. > > B.E. > > > January 30, 2009 > Profit Rises at Amazon as Shoppers Seek Deals > By BRAD STONE > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/brad_stone/index.html?inline=nyt-per) > > SAN FRANCISCO ? In December, Amazon.com > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/amazon_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > said it was having its "best ever" holiday season. On Thursday, it > offered proof. > > The company posted strong earnings in a brutal climate that has punished > nearly every other retailer, online and offline. Amazon > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/amazon_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org)'s > net profit rose 9 percent, to $225 million, or 52 cents a share, in the > quarter that ended on Dec. 31, up from $207 million, or 48 cents, in the > same quarter a year earlier. > > "We remain relentlessly focused on serving customers with low prices, > great selection and free shipping offers, including Amazon Prime," Jeff > Bezos > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/jeffrey_p_bezos/index.html?inline=nyt-per), > founder and chief executive of Amazon, said in a statement. > > The company's revenue climbed 18 percent to $6.70 billion, surpassing > Wall Street's expectations. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/thomson-reuters-corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > on average expected $6.44 billion in revenue. > > After hours, Amazon shares were trading around $56, an increase of more > than 13 percent. In the regular trading session, before Amazon's > announcement, shares closed largely unchanged at $50. > > Amazon's robust growth rate far exceeded the overall growth rate of > other online retailers during the holidays, which was slightly down, the > Web measurement company comScore > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/comscore-inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > said. > > "We're particularly grateful for the unusually strong demand for Kindle > in the fourth quarter," Mr. Bezos said, referring to the company's > electronic book reader. It was out of stock for most of the holiday > season, but the company encouraged consumers to order it for later delivery. > > Amazon released no new statistics on sales of the Kindle, which has been > a hit. The company has scheduled a news conference in New York on Feb. 9 > to introduce a new version of the device > (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/amazons-kindle-2-will-debut-feb-9/). > > Some analysts say Amazon may have benefited from the economic slowdown > as people turned to the e-commerce site to find bargains. > > "Amazon may be enjoying a Wal-Mart > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/wal_mart_stores_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > effect, with people trading down to Amazon to get better prices over the > holiday," said Mark Mahaney, an analyst at Citigroup > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/citigroup_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org). > "Amazon must have dramatically taken market share" from other retailers > during the quarter, he said. > > But in a sign that Amazon was not immune to the recession, its operating > margins fell to 4.06 percent from 4.78 percent, a result of heavy > discounting to persuade reluctant shoppers to buy. > > Amazon offered a broad estimate for the current quarter and did not make > any estimate for the year, as it normally had. It said it expected > operating income of as much as $210 million, a 19 percent increase over > the first quarter of 2008. At its most pessimistic, the forecast was for > a 9 percent increase. > > One immediate challenge for Amazon is the liquidation of Circuit City. > The electronics chain is emptying 154 stores, which could drive down the > prices of items like flat-screen televisions. > > In the long term though, the carnage in the traditional retail sector is > "incredibly positive" for Amazon, said Scott W. Devitt, an analyst at > Stifel Nicolaus. "Amazon has never been in a stronger structural > position, and you have a shrinking industry with a high fixed-cost base > that is forcing bankruptcies," he said. "That business has to go somewhere." > > In another sign of how Amazon.com has diversified its business beyond > its original product lines of books, music and movies, the sales of > electronics and general merchandise in the fourth quarter grew to $2.89 > billion, a 31 percent increase over a year earlier. The sale of media > items grew just 9 percent in the same period. > > Among Amazon's newest product offerings and services are motorcycle and > all-terrain-vehicle parts, a new Web service called CloudFront for > businesses to deliver large content files to their customers, and Amazon > Video on Demand, a digital television and movie store that is accessible > online or through living room devices like TiVo > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/tivo-inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org). > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From bill at effros.com Sun Feb 1 12:45:38 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:45:38 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Amazon In-Reply-To: <400985d70902010734y3f8202fdk97ce9fbb971270b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49847F43.4010904@effros.com> <400985d70902010734y3f8202fdk97ce9fbb971270b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4985DFC2.2070302@effros.com> Brad, I haven't checked my answer, but it seems to me there is a federal law that no state can force Internet companies to collect sales tax for them if the company doesn't have a retail outlet in that state. This was written to foster Internet commerce. If I buy a toaster on line from Wal-Mart I am charged tax. If I buy the same toaster from Amazon on line, I am not charged tax. Now, I understand the laws of CT require me to disclose and pay tax on everything I buy, and you can be sure I fully comply. However, I buy from Amazon anyhow all things being equal, and I'm sure many others buy from Amazon for the same reason. I believe NY is trying to cut through this right now, and since everybody needs money I expect Amazon's advantage to disappear nationwide. This will be very good for local retailers, many of whom get to pocket the sales tax they charge. Have you read Free Lunch? B. Brad Haslett wrote: > Bill, > > Technically, the sellers on Amazon are supposed to collect sales tax > from buyers located in the same state. Where is Amazon based? I'm > clueless, but would caution whatever state it is to not get to > creative or greedy. Once upon a time there was a small start-up > company in Little Rock, AR that had this crazy idea of cutting holes > in the side of little jets and hauling packages. The State of > Arkansas got greedy and decided to collect sales tax on every package > that flowed through the hub. The short version of a long story is the > company moved to Memphis, Tennessee. Whatever state Amazon is based > in should stay content with collecting income taxes off their profits > and not try and "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs". OK, forget > I said that, of course they'll eventually do something stupid. > Frankly, I think our tax revenue problems have been solved. If every > single Obama Administration nominee just pays his/hers unpaid taxes, > we'll have revenue flowing like we never dreamed. > > Brad > > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Bill Effros wrote: > >> Excuse me, folks, but I shop at Amazon because you pay no sales tax. >> Wonder how well they will do if you have to pay tax for their goods like >> everyone else. Wonder how long it will take the geniuses in government >> to figure out that raising sales taxes on everybody else, but not >> Amazon, won't work. >> >> Amazon's entire profit would be eaten up if they had to pay tax on what >> they sold. >> >> B.E. >> >> >> January 30, 2009 >> Profit Rises at Amazon as Shoppers Seek Deals >> By BRAD STONE >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/brad_stone/index.html?inline=nyt-per) >> >> SAN FRANCISCO ? In December, Amazon.com >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/amazon_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) >> said it was having its "best ever" holiday season. On Thursday, it >> offered proof. >> >> The company posted strong earnings in a brutal climate that has punished >> nearly every other retailer, online and offline. Amazon >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/amazon_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org)'s >> net profit rose 9 percent, to $225 million, or 52 cents a share, in the >> quarter that ended on Dec. 31, up from $207 million, or 48 cents, in the >> same quarter a year earlier. >> >> "We remain relentlessly focused on serving customers with low prices, >> great selection and free shipping offers, including Amazon Prime," Jeff >> Bezos >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/jeffrey_p_bezos/index.html?inline=nyt-per), >> founder and chief executive of Amazon, said in a statement. >> >> The company's revenue climbed 18 percent to $6.70 billion, surpassing >> Wall Street's expectations. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/thomson-reuters-corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) >> on average expected $6.44 billion in revenue. >> >> After hours, Amazon shares were trading around $56, an increase of more >> than 13 percent. In the regular trading session, before Amazon's >> announcement, shares closed largely unchanged at $50. >> >> Amazon's robust growth rate far exceeded the overall growth rate of >> other online retailers during the holidays, which was slightly down, the >> Web measurement company comScore >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/comscore-inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) >> said. >> >> "We're particularly grateful for the unusually strong demand for Kindle >> in the fourth quarter," Mr. Bezos said, referring to the company's >> electronic book reader. It was out of stock for most of the holiday >> season, but the company encouraged consumers to order it for later delivery. >> >> Amazon released no new statistics on sales of the Kindle, which has been >> a hit. The company has scheduled a news conference in New York on Feb. 9 >> to introduce a new version of the device >> (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/amazons-kindle-2-will-debut-feb-9/). >> >> Some analysts say Amazon may have benefited from the economic slowdown >> as people turned to the e-commerce site to find bargains. >> >> "Amazon may be enjoying a Wal-Mart >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/wal_mart_stores_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) >> effect, with people trading down to Amazon to get better prices over the >> holiday," said Mark Mahaney, an analyst at Citigroup >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/citigroup_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org). >> "Amazon must have dramatically taken market share" from other retailers >> during the quarter, he said. >> >> But in a sign that Amazon was not immune to the recession, its operating >> margins fell to 4.06 percent from 4.78 percent, a result of heavy >> discounting to persuade reluctant shoppers to buy. >> >> Amazon offered a broad estimate for the current quarter and did not make >> any estimate for the year, as it normally had. It said it expected >> operating income of as much as $210 million, a 19 percent increase over >> the first quarter of 2008. At its most pessimistic, the forecast was for >> a 9 percent increase. >> >> One immediate challenge for Amazon is the liquidation of Circuit City. >> The electronics chain is emptying 154 stores, which could drive down the >> prices of items like flat-screen televisions. >> >> In the long term though, the carnage in the traditional retail sector is >> "incredibly positive" for Amazon, said Scott W. Devitt, an analyst at >> Stifel Nicolaus. "Amazon has never been in a stronger structural >> position, and you have a shrinking industry with a high fixed-cost base >> that is forcing bankruptcies," he said. "That business has to go somewhere." >> >> In another sign of how Amazon.com has diversified its business beyond >> its original product lines of books, music and movies, the sales of >> electronics and general merchandise in the fourth quarter grew to $2.89 >> billion, a 31 percent increase over a year earlier. The sale of media >> items grew just 9 percent in the same period. >> >> Among Amazon's newest product offerings and services are motorcycle and >> all-terrain-vehicle parts, a new Web service called CloudFront for >> businesses to deliver large content files to their customers, and Amazon >> Video on Demand, a digital television and movie store that is accessible >> online or through living room devices like TiVo >> (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/tivo-inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org). >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090201/45ac640c/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 13:55:08 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:55:08 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Amazon In-Reply-To: <4985DFC2.2070302@effros.com> References: <49847F43.4010904@effros.com> <400985d70902010734y3f8202fdk97ce9fbb971270b3@mail.gmail.com> <4985DFC2.2070302@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902011055w7da515edq2bb60e7346e971d0@mail.gmail.com> Bill, Haven't read "Free Lunch" but I looked it up on Amazon (of course) and it looks interesting. Funny thing, the author mentioned sports teams and outdoor retailers. When Memphis got an NBA basketball team, one of the conditions was that they build a new stadium (FedEx Forum). The city still had the problem of owing 35 million on The Pyramid. Voters approved an increase in water bills (big, big bucks were spent on that campaign) to build the new 250 million dollar venue and The Pyramid was sold to Bass Pro Shops in a sweetheart deal. Go figure! Brad On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Bill Effros wrote: > Brad, > > I haven't checked my answer, but it seems to me there is a federal law that > no state can force Internet companies to collect sales tax for them if the > company doesn't have a retail outlet in that state. > > This was written to foster Internet commerce. > > If I buy a toaster on line from Wal-Mart I am charged tax. If I buy the > same toaster from Amazon on line, I am not charged tax. Now, I understand > the laws of CT require me to disclose and pay tax on everything I buy, and > you can be sure I fully comply. > > However, I buy from Amazon anyhow all things being equal, and I'm sure many > others buy from Amazon for the same reason. > > I believe NY is trying to cut through this right now, and since everybody > needs money I expect Amazon's advantage to disappear nationwide. This will > be very good for local retailers, many of whom get to pocket the sales tax > they charge. > > Have you read Free Lunch? > > B. > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: > > Bill, > > Technically, the sellers on Amazon are supposed to collect sales tax > from buyers located in the same state. Where is Amazon based? I'm > clueless, but would caution whatever state it is to not get to > creative or greedy. Once upon a time there was a small start-up > company in Little Rock, AR that had this crazy idea of cutting holes > in the side of little jets and hauling packages. The State of > Arkansas got greedy and decided to collect sales tax on every package > that flowed through the hub. The short version of a long story is the > company moved to Memphis, Tennessee. Whatever state Amazon is based > in should stay content with collecting income taxes off their profits > and not try and "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs". OK, forget > I said that, of course they'll eventually do something stupid. > Frankly, I think our tax revenue problems have been solved. If every > single Obama Administration nominee just pays his/hers unpaid taxes, > we'll have revenue flowing like we never dreamed. > > Brad > > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Bill Effros wrote: > > > Excuse me, folks, but I shop at Amazon because you pay no sales tax. > Wonder how well they will do if you have to pay tax for their goods like > everyone else. Wonder how long it will take the geniuses in government > to figure out that raising sales taxes on everybody else, but not > Amazon, won't work. > > Amazon's entire profit would be eaten up if they had to pay tax on what > they sold. > > B.E. > > > January 30, 2009 > Profit Rises at Amazon as Shoppers Seek Deals > By BRAD STONE > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/brad_stone/index.html?inline=nyt-per) > > SAN FRANCISCO ? In December, Amazon.com > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/amazon_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > said it was having its "best ever" holiday season. On Thursday, it > offered proof. > > The company posted strong earnings in a brutal climate that has punished > nearly every other retailer, online and offline. Amazon > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/amazon_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org)'s > net profit rose 9 percent, to $225 million, or 52 cents a share, in the > quarter that ended on Dec. 31, up from $207 million, or 48 cents, in the > same quarter a year earlier. > > "We remain relentlessly focused on serving customers with low prices, > great selection and free shipping offers, including Amazon Prime," Jeff > Bezos > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/jeffrey_p_bezos/index.html?inline=nyt-per), > founder and chief executive of Amazon, said in a statement. > > The company's revenue climbed 18 percent to $6.70 billion, surpassing > Wall Street's expectations. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/thomson-reuters-corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > on average expected $6.44 billion in revenue. > > After hours, Amazon shares were trading around $56, an increase of more > than 13 percent. In the regular trading session, before Amazon's > announcement, shares closed largely unchanged at $50. > > Amazon's robust growth rate far exceeded the overall growth rate of > other online retailers during the holidays, which was slightly down, the > Web measurement company comScore > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/comscore-inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > said. > > "We're particularly grateful for the unusually strong demand for Kindle > in the fourth quarter," Mr. Bezos said, referring to the company's > electronic book reader. It was out of stock for most of the holiday > season, but the company encouraged consumers to order it for later delivery. > > Amazon released no new statistics on sales of the Kindle, which has been > a hit. The company has scheduled a news conference in New York on Feb. 9 > to introduce a new version of the device > (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/amazons-kindle-2-will-debut-feb-9/). > > Some analysts say Amazon may have benefited from the economic slowdown > as people turned to the e-commerce site to find bargains. > > "Amazon may be enjoying a Wal-Mart > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/wal_mart_stores_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) > effect, with people trading down to Amazon to get better prices over the > holiday," said Mark Mahaney, an analyst at Citigroup > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/citigroup_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org). > "Amazon must have dramatically taken market share" from other retailers > during the quarter, he said. > > But in a sign that Amazon was not immune to the recession, its operating > margins fell to 4.06 percent from 4.78 percent, a result of heavy > discounting to persuade reluctant shoppers to buy. > > Amazon offered a broad estimate for the current quarter and did not make > any estimate for the year, as it normally had. It said it expected > operating income of as much as $210 million, a 19 percent increase over > the first quarter of 2008. At its most pessimistic, the forecast was for > a 9 percent increase. > > One immediate challenge for Amazon is the liquidation of Circuit City. > The electronics chain is emptying 154 stores, which could drive down the > prices of items like flat-screen televisions. > > In the long term though, the carnage in the traditional retail sector is > "incredibly positive" for Amazon, said Scott W. Devitt, an analyst at > Stifel Nicolaus. "Amazon has never been in a stronger structural > position, and you have a shrinking industry with a high fixed-cost base > that is forcing bankruptcies," he said. "That business has to go somewhere." > > In another sign of how Amazon.com has diversified its business beyond > its original product lines of books, music and movies, the sales of > electronics and general merchandise in the fourth quarter grew to $2.89 > billion, a 31 percent increase over a year earlier. The sale of media > items grew just 9 percent in the same period. > > Among Amazon's newest product offerings and services are motorcycle and > all-terrain-vehicle parts, a new Web service called CloudFront for > businesses to deliver large content files to their customers, and Amazon > Video on Demand, a digital television and movie store that is accessible > online or through living room devices like TiVo > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/tivo-inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org). > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 14:47:01 2009 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (Elle Saylor) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NINE WORDS WOMEN USE In-Reply-To: <4984D8C6.3090107@effros.com> Message-ID: <539737.12243.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> That's Okay...... Just remember that you are being watched......;^) elle --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Bill Effros wrote: > From: Bill Effros > Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NINE WORDS WOMEN USE > To: "SwiftwaterGazette" > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 11:03 PM > *NINE WORDS WOMEN USE * > > * > (1) ** **_Fine _**: ** **This is the word women use to > end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up. > * * > (2) ** **_Five Minutes _**: ** **If she is getting > dressed, this means a half an hour. Five minutes is only > five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes > to watch the game before helping around the house. * * > (3) ** **_Nothing _**: ** **This is the calm before the > storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. > Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in fine. * * > (4) ** **_Go Ahead _**: ** **This is a dare, not > permission. Don't Do It! * * > (5) ** **_Loud Sigh _**: ** **This is actually a word, > but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A > loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why > she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you > about nothing. (Refer back to # 3 for the meaning of > nothing.) * * > (6) ** **_That's Okay _**: ** **This is one of the > most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. > That's okay means she wants to think long and hard > before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake. > * * > (7) ** **_Thanks _**: ** **A woman is thanking you, do > not question, or faint. Just say you're welcome. (I want > to add in a clause here - This is true, unless she says > 'Thanks a lot' - that is PURE sarcasm and she is not > thanking you at all. DO NOT say 'you're welcome' > . that will bring on a 'whatever'). * * > (8) ** **_Whatever _**: ** **Is a woman's way of > saying ** **F-- ** **YOU! * * > (9) ** **_Don't worry about it, I got it _**: ** > **Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something > that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now > doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking > 'What's wrong?' For the woman's response > refer to # 3. * * > * Send this to the men you know, to warn them about > arguments they can ** **avoid if they remember the > terminology. * * > *** Send this to all the women you know to give them a good > laugh, cause they know it's true!! * > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette From bill at effros.com Sun Feb 1 15:39:31 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:39:31 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NINE WORDS WOMEN USE In-Reply-To: <539737.12243.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <539737.12243.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49860883.6070809@effros.com> Elle, I'm sure everyone here will be glad to learn they are being watched by you. B. Elle Saylor wrote: > That's Okay...... > > Just remember that you are being watched......;^) > > elle > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Bill Effros wrote: > > >> From: Bill Effros >> Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NINE WORDS WOMEN USE >> To: "SwiftwaterGazette" >> Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 11:03 PM >> *NINE WORDS WOMEN USE * >> >> * >> (1) ** **_Fine _**: ** **This is the word women use to >> end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up. >> * * >> (2) ** **_Five Minutes _**: ** **If she is getting >> dressed, this means a half an hour. Five minutes is only >> five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes >> to watch the game before helping around the house. * * >> (3) ** **_Nothing _**: ** **This is the calm before the >> storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. >> Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in fine. * * >> (4) ** **_Go Ahead _**: ** **This is a dare, not >> permission. Don't Do It! * * >> (5) ** **_Loud Sigh _**: ** **This is actually a word, >> but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A >> loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why >> she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you >> about nothing. (Refer back to # 3 for the meaning of >> nothing.) * * >> (6) ** **_That's Okay _**: ** **This is one of the >> most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. >> That's okay means she wants to think long and hard >> before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake. >> * * >> (7) ** **_Thanks _**: ** **A woman is thanking you, do >> not question, or faint. Just say you're welcome. (I want >> to add in a clause here - This is true, unless she says >> 'Thanks a lot' - that is PURE sarcasm and she is not >> thanking you at all. DO NOT say 'you're welcome' >> . that will bring on a 'whatever'). * * >> (8) ** **_Whatever _**: ** **Is a woman's way of >> saying ** **F-- ** **YOU! * * >> (9) ** **_Don't worry about it, I got it _**: ** >> **Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something >> that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now >> doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking >> 'What's wrong?' For the woman's response >> refer to # 3. * * >> * Send this to the men you know, to warn them about >> arguments they can ** **avoid if they remember the >> terminology. * * >> *** Send this to all the women you know to give them a good >> laugh, cause they know it's true!! * >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090201/18163deb/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 22:22:05 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 21:22:05 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Shovel Ready! Message-ID: <400985d70902011922x35a7914dmf270a4584a0ef0e0@mail.gmail.com> What an appropriate name. You can check on what's "shovel ready" in your hometown here - http://www.stimuluswatch.org/ Dog parks? I guess Fido is suffering from the downturn in the business cycle as well - who knew? Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 07:46:15 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 06:46:15 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Travel - Why First Class Matters Message-ID: <400985d70902020446s126473cbj8fece8e33f775ff3@mail.gmail.com> Look who gets the raft and who gets the shaft! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1stClassMatters.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 654246 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/d2167b9e/attachment-0001.bin From bill at effros.com Mon Feb 2 11:49:24 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:49:24 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bailouts for Bunglers -- Lemon Socialism Message-ID: <49872414.8050200@effros.com> Bailouts for Bunglers February 2, 2009 Op-Ed Columnist By PAUL KRUGMAN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/paulkrugman/index.html?inline=nyt-per) Question: what happens if you lose vast amounts of other people?s money? Answer: you get a big gift from the federal government ? but the president says some very harsh things about you before forking over the cash. Am I being unfair? I hope so. But right now that?s what seems to be happening. Just to be clear, I?m not talking about the Obama administration?s plan to support jobs and output with a large, temporary rise in federal spending, which is very much the right thing to do. I?m talking, instead, about the administration?s plans for a banking system rescue ? plans that are shaping up as a classic exercise in ?lemon socialism?: taxpayers bear the cost if things go wrong, but stockholders and executives get the benefits if things go right. When I read recent remarks on financial policy by top Obama administration officials, I feel as if I?ve entered a time warp ? as if it?s still 2005, Alan Greenspan is still the Maestro, and bankers are still heroes of capitalism. ?We have a financial system that is run by private shareholders, managed by private institutions, and we?d like to do our best to preserve that system,? says Timothy Geithner, the Treasury secretary ? as he prepares to put taxpayers on the hook for that system?s immense losses. Meanwhile, a Washington Post report based on administration sources says that Mr. Geithner and Lawrence Summers, President Obama?s top economic adviser, ?think governments make poor bank managers? ? as opposed, presumably, to the private-sector geniuses who managed to lose more than a trillion dollars in the space of a few years. And this prejudice in favor of private control, even when the government is putting up all the money, seems to be warping the administration?s response to the financial crisis. Now, something must be done to shore up the financial system. The chaos after Lehman Brothers failed showed that letting major financial institutions collapse can be very bad for the economy?s health. And a number of major institutions are dangerously close to the edge. So banks need more capital. In normal times, banks raise capital by selling stock to private investors, who receive a share in the bank?s ownership in return. You might think, then, that if banks currently can?t or won?t raise enough capital from private investors, the government should do what a private investor would: provide capital in return for partial ownership. But bank stocks are worth so little these days ? Citigroup and Bank of America have a combined market value of only $52 billion ? that the ownership wouldn?t be partial: pumping in enough taxpayer money to make the banks sound would, in effect, turn them into publicly owned enterprises. My response to this prospect is: so? If taxpayers are footing the bill for rescuing the banks, why shouldn?t they get ownership, at least until private buyers can be found? But the Obama administration appears to be tying itself in knots to avoid this outcome. If news reports are right, the bank rescue plan will contain two main elements: government purchases of some troubled bank assets and guarantees against losses on other assets. The guarantees would represent a big gift to bank stockholders; the purchases might not, if the price was fair ? but prices would, The Financial Times reports, probably be based on ?valuation models? rather than market prices, suggesting that the government would be making a big gift here, too. And in return for what is likely to be a huge subsidy to stockholders, taxpayers will get, well, nothing. Will there at least be limits on executive compensation, to prevent more of the rip-offs that have enraged the public? President Obama denounced Wall Street bonuses in his latest weekly address ? but according to The Washington Post, ?the administration is likely to refrain from imposing tougher restrictions on executive compensation at most firms receiving government aid? because ?harsh limits could discourage some firms from asking for aid.? This suggests that Mr. Obama?s tough talk is just for show. Meanwhile, Wall Street?s culture of excess seems to have been barely dented by the crisis. ?Say I?m a banker and I created $30 million. I should get a part of that,? one banker told The New York Times. And if you?re a banker and you destroyed $30 billion? Uncle Sam to the rescue! There?s more at stake here than fairness, although that matters too. Saving the economy is going to be very expensive: that $800 billion stimulus plan is probably just a down payment, and rescuing the financial system, even if it?s done right, is going to cost hundreds of billions more. We can?t afford to squander money giving huge windfalls to banks and their executives, merely to preserve the illusion of private ownership. From tootle at charter.net Mon Feb 2 12:14:48 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:14:48 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros continues... Message-ID: Bill, You continue to read the New York Times, a great source of left wing opinion. Try other sources of information. Look and read some of the speeches and articles at this site: http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp Read the attached right wing opinion... Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/652161ff/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Rush Limbaugh Hillsdale Speech 2.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 14244 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/652161ff/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 02/01/09 18:02:00 From tootle at charter.net Mon Feb 2 12:20:03 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:20:03 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros continues continued Message-ID: <70AE429D49A74E1DABC1FA7880461A83@YOURB88038198E> Bill, You continue to read the New York Times, a great source of left wing opinion. Try other sources of information. Look and read some of the speeches and articles at this site: http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp Read a right wing opinion blow: Rush Limbaugh Hillsdale Speech Do Conservatives Need to Get Beyond Reagan? Rush Limbaugh launched his radio broadcast into national syndication on August 1, 1988, with 56 radio stations. Twenty years later it is heard on nearly 600 stations by approximately 20 million people each week and is the highest rated national radio talk show in America. Mr. Limbaugh also hosts "The Rush Limbaugh Morning Update," writes "The Limbaugh Letter," and extends his message to the Internet via RushLimbaugh.com. He received the Marconi Award for Syndicated Radio Personality of the Year, given by the National Association of Broadcasters, in 1992, 1995, 2000 and 2005. In 1993, he was inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame and in 1998, into the National Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame. The following is adapted from a speech delivered on December 4, 2008, at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D.C., on the occasion of the ninth annual Hillsdale College Churchill Dinner. THERE ARE ongoing discussions and debates among conservatives about the kind of president Barack Obama will prove to be, and about how they should react to him. But there is a larger and more important debate going on within conservatism-a debate about what conservatism is. Remarkably, we are hearing from a lot of people who are thought to be conservatives that conservatives need to "get beyond Reagan." After all, these people say, "The Reagan era is over." And the liberal media love to print their articles and broadcast their pronouncements to this effect. My response is, well, yes, the Reagan era is over in the sense that it has been 20 years since Reagan was president. But the funny thing is, I never heard the liberals saying that because the era of FDR was over-it ended in 1945-that they needed to "get beyond FDR." They didn't say that 35 years later when Reagan was first elected, or when he was reelected in 1984. They didn't say that when the liberals lost Congress in the 1994 election. Nor did they say it after the 2000 or 2004 elections. Instead, they kept arguing and fighting for the ideas they believe in. And now Mr. Obama is plausibly promising to revive the era of FDR. So why are some so-called conservatives today arguing that we need to "get beyond Reagan," by which they mean that we need to abandon the ideas that Reagan stood for? To understand the roots of this argument, I think we only need to look back to the years when Reagan first emerged onto the national scene. There was a lot of resentment at that time among many of the elites in the Republican Party because Reagan hadn't gone to the right schools, he didn't come from the right part of the country, he had been an actor rather than a lawyer, he was a bumbling dunce, he was an extremist who was too far outside the mainstream to win, and so on. People have been making these kinds of arguments for a long time. They were saying that conservatives needed to get beyond Reagan even before the Reagan era began. A few of them are the same people. Many of them are new. But what they have in common is that none of them agree with the principles that Reagan stood for. And I would argue that this means that they are not conservatives. Today the get-beyond-Reagan arguments are often put in so-called pragmatic terms of needing to create blocs of voters who will support the Republican Party. And in order to accomplish this, all that conservatives have to do, these self-proclaimed smart people say, is embrace the idea of big government, because that's what the American people want and because only so-called big-government conservatives will be able to create blocs of voters by spending money to do them favors. But in answer to this, one has to ask the question-and I'm being a real pragmatist myself here-what's left for government to spend these days? It's already bailing people out right and left with taxpayer money that the government doesn't have. The spigot has been turned on under President Bush. The Obama administration, we can presume, is going to be even more generous in terms of bailouts. But honestly, when we look at auto executives being grilled on TV by liberal members of Congress about their irresponsibility, can we take it seriously? Has anyone ever been as irresponsible with money-and in their case other people's money-than these very same self-righteous members of Congress? As history has amply demonstrated, down the line the kind of central planning that Mr. Bush has begun and that Mr. Obama plans to escalate isn't going to work. Although it may succeed in increasing the control of government over people's lives-which is how many liberals these days seem to define prosperity-it will fail miserably in restoring economic health to America. So in fact, during a time of economic trouble like this when liberals are in charge of both elected branches of government, conservatives have a golden opportunity to reintroduce to the American people the free market ideas and policies that have made our country the greatest and most prosperous country in human history. My first point, then, is that there is no pragmatic reason today for conservatives to abandon the ideas of Reagan. It is worth remembering, after all, that despite the warnings of Republican "pragmatists" in the economically bleak 1970s that Reagan was too far outside the mainstream ever to be successful politically, Reagan won the presidency in two landslides-and that in 1994, his party took over the House of Representatives, for the first time in 40 years, using Reagan-like arguments. But there is a second and more important point to be made in response to the argument that conservatives should get beyond Reagan. The main idea that animated Reagan wasn't anti-communism or supply side economics. Reagan's main idea was the main idea of the American founding-the idea of individual liberty-and the policies that he supported, both internationally and domestically, grew from that. America was founded on the idea that our individual freedoms derive from God, not from government, and that government should protect those freedoms and never violate them. Reagan argued, and history has shown, that America does best when it is true to its original idea. It does best when its people are left free to work in their individual self-interest-not meant in the sense of being selfish, but in the sense that they are left free to work to improve their own lives and the lives of their families, and for the good of their communities and of the nation at large. The biggest problem with the argument that conservatives should get beyond Reagan, then, is that the idea of individual liberty will never go out of style as long as America exists. To argue that the Reagan era is over is to argue that the era of freedom is over. And to argue that conservatives should abandon Reagan's principles is to argue that they should stop being conservatives. There is no such thing, at least in America, as "big-government conservatism." A government that abides by the Constitution and protects our God-given freedoms is by definition limited. Rather than carving out blocs of voters by surrendering their principles, conservatives need to continue to tell the American people as a whole that the ideas of individual liberty and limited government are right and that the policies that come from those ideas work best to produce prosperity. Conservatives don't need to reinvent themselves. They need the courage to be once again who they were. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/7ac833bd/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/7ac833bd/attachment-0001.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 02/01/09 18:02:00 From bill at effros.com Mon Feb 2 16:34:41 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:34:41 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros continues continued In-Reply-To: <70AE429D49A74E1DABC1FA7880461A83@YOURB88038198E> References: <70AE429D49A74E1DABC1FA7880461A83@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <498766F1.9080006@effros.com> Ed, I've missed you! I no longer read the NYT daily from cover to cover, something I did for 50 years, in part due to your observations about its journalistic quality, or lack thereof. I thought you might be interested to note that a left wing economist agrees with much right wing opinion. What do you think of Pat Buchanan's protectionist views? He has been both consistent and articulate in stating them. I don't know that he's right, but I don't know that he's wrong, either. What's your take? B. tootle wrote: > Bill, > > You continue to read the New York Times, a great source of left wing > opinion. Try other sources of information. > > Look and read some of the speeches and articles at this site: > > http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp > > Read a right wing opinion blow: > > > Rush Limbaugh > > Hillsdale Speech > > Do Conservatives Need to Get Beyond Reagan? > > > > Rush Limbaugh launched his radio broadcast into national syndication > on August 1, 1988, with 56 radio stations. Twenty years later it is > heard on nearly 600 stations by approximately 20 million people each > week and is the highest rated national radio talk show in America. Mr. > Limbaugh also hosts "The Rush Limbaugh Morning Update," writes "The > Limbaugh Letter," and extends his message to the Internet via > RushLimbaugh.com. He received the Marconi Award for Syndicated Radio > Personality of the Year, given by the National Association of > Broadcasters, in 1992, 1995, 2000 and 2005. In 1993, he was inducted > into the Radio Hall of Fame and in 1998, into the National Association > of Broadcasters Hall of Fame. > > The following is adapted from a speech delivered on December 4, 2008, > at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D.C., on the occasion of the > ninth annual Hillsdale College Churchill Dinner. > > THERE ARE ongoing discussions and debates among conservatives about > the kind of president Barack Obama will prove to be, and about how > they should react to him. But there is a larger and more important > debate going on within conservatism-a debate about what conservatism > is. Remarkably, we are hearing from a lot of people who are thought to > be conservatives that conservatives need to "get beyond Reagan." After > all, these people say, "The Reagan era is over." And the liberal media > love to print their articles and broadcast their pronouncements to > this effect. My response is, well, yes, the Reagan era is over in the > sense that it has been 20 years since Reagan was president. But the > funny thing is, I never heard the liberals saying that because the era > of FDR was over---it ended in 1945---that they needed to "get beyond > FDR." They didn't say that 35 years later when Reagan was first > elected, or when he was reelected in 1984. They didn't say that when > the liberals lost Congress in the 1994 election. Nor did they say it > after the 2000 or 2004 elections. Instead, they kept arguing and > fighting for the ideas they believe in. And now Mr. Obama is plausibly > promising to revive the era of FDR. > > So why are some so-called conservatives today arguing that we need to > "get beyond Reagan," by which they mean that we need to abandon the > ideas that Reagan stood for? To understand the roots of this argument, > I think we only need to look back to the years when Reagan first > emerged onto the national scene. /There was a lot of resentment at > that time among many of the elites in the Republican Party because > Reagan hadn't gone to the right schools, he didn't come from the right > part of the country, he had been an actor rather than a lawyer, he was > a bumbling dunce, he was an extremist who was too far outside the > mainstream to win, and so on. /People have been making these kinds of > arguments for a long time. They were saying that conservatives needed > to get beyond Reagan even before the Reagan era began. A few of them > are the same people. Many of them are new. But _what they have in > common is that none of them agree with the principles that Reagan > stood for._ And I would argue that this means that they are not > conservatives. > > Today the get-beyond-Reagan arguments are often put in so-called > pragmatic terms of /needing to create blocs of voters who will support > the Republican Party. And in order to accomplish this, all that > conservatives have to do, these self-proclaimed smart people say, is > embrace the idea of big government, because that's what the American > people want and because only so-called big-government conservatives > will be able to create blocs of voters by spending money to do them > favors. /But in answer to this, one has to ask the question---and I'm > being a real pragmatist myself here---what's left for government to > spend these days? It's already bailing people out right and left with > taxpayer money that the government doesn't have. The spigot has been > turned on under President Bush. The Obama administration, we can > presume, is going to be even more generous in terms of bailouts. But > honestly, when we look at auto executives being grilled on TV by > liberal members of Congress about their irresponsibility, can we take > it seriously? Has anyone ever been as irresponsible with money---and > in their case other people's money---than these very same > self-righteous members of Congress? > > /As history has amply demonstrated, down the line the kind of central > planning that Mr. Bush has begun and that Mr. Obama plans to escalate > isn't going to work. /Although it may succeed in increasing the > control of government over people's lives---which is how many liberals > these days seem to define prosperity---it will fail miserably in > restoring economic health to America. So in fact, during a time of > economic trouble like this when liberals are in charge of both elected > branches of government, conservatives have a golden opportunity to > reintroduce to the American people the free market ideas and policies > that have made our country the greatest and most prosperous country in > human history. > > My first point, then, is that there is no pragmatic reason today for > conservatives to abandon the ideas of Reagan. It is worth remembering, > after all, that despite the warnings of Republican "pragmatists" in > the economically bleak 1970s that /Reagan was too far outside the > mainstream ever to be successful politically/, Reagan won the > presidency in two landslides---and that in 1994, his party took over > the House of Representatives, for the first time in 40 years, using > Reagan-like arguments. > > But there is a second and more important point to be made in response > to the argument that conservatives should get beyond Reagan. /The main > idea that animated Reagan wasn't anti-communism or supply side > economics./ *Reagan's main idea was the main idea of the American > founding---the idea of individual liberty*---and the policies that he > supported, both internationally and domestically, grew from that. > /America was founded on the idea that our individual freedoms derive > from God, not from government, and that government should protect > those freedoms and never violate them. Reagan argued, and history has > shown, that America does best when it is true to its original idea. > *It does best when its people are left free to work in their > individual self-interest---not meant in the sense of being selfish, > but in the sense that they are left free to work to improve their own > lives and the lives of their families, and for the good of their > communities and of the nation at large.*/ The biggest problem with the > argument that conservatives should get beyond Reagan, then, is that > the idea of individual liberty will never go out of style as long as > America exists. To argue that the Reagan era is over is to argue that > the era of freedom is over. And to argue that conservatives should > abandon Reagan's principles is to argue that they should stop being > conservatives. > > There is no such thing, at least in America, as "big-government > conservatism." A government that abides by the Constitution and > protects our God-given freedoms is by definition limited. Rather than > carving out blocs of voters by surrendering their principles, > conservatives need to continue to tell the American people as a whole > that the ideas of individual liberty and limited government are right > and that the policies that come from those ideas work best to produce > prosperity. /Conservatives don't need to reinvent themselves. They > need the courage to be once again who they were./ > > // > Ed K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/201f458d/attachment.html From ekroposki at charter.net Mon Feb 2 18:06:59 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:06:59 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Free Trade Message-ID: I do not believe in unilateral free trade. That said, trade with China had other aspects which have awakened the country and weakened the control of the Communists. Just look how many Chinese call America home now. I do not follow Buchanan's comments since he went to work for that liberal anti American cable network. It is interesting if you go to Harbor Freight and look at the cheap tools. The availability of cheap tools has made an impact on making things. So, the Chinese throw away tools have allowed small companies and individuals to build things here. However, I believe that the American consumer has a right to know where everything and anything is made. That is to mean all the component parts that Brad spoke about. This especially applies to food, medicine, and things that effect health. Have you noticed that in Dairy products the 'Real' label is hard to find, but the product says natural? That is because part of the product is being made with foreign ingredient notwithstanding the big merchandisers denial. Think dairy products not tested for TB or other deleterious stuff. Think cups and plates that shed lead or other harmful chemicals. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/44d4fc3f/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090202/44d4fc3f/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 02/02/09 07:51:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 08:19:27 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 07:19:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400985d70902030519scbfd3bn160fe19fef15f1a5@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Rush Limbaugh is despised because so much of what he says is common sense. The Left hates him because he's not "educated", he's rich, and he has real power to influence voters. That said, I don't listen to Rush often because he's primarily an entertainer, and I just don't invest that much time in media entertainment. The market is proving the winners and losers in the "truth business" and old media is dying because people are waking-up to the propaganda. You don't see people in Beijing hanging on to every word printed in the China Daily, and fewer people are reading the New York Times and then feeling they are "informed". Last week was a perfect example: over a million people are still without electricity throughout the MidSouth. Almost fifty people have died as a result of the storm. The Governor of Kentucky mobilized 100% of the Kentucky National Guard and told KY residents to leave the State and head South if they have the resources to do so. The Red Cross and Salvation Army are on the ground doing the "heavy lifting" as usual. FEMA is late to the scene as always. Meanwhile, President Obama is eating $100 steaks at "bipartisan" dinners and throwing Super Bowl parties at the White House where aides say "he keeps the temperature so high you could grow orchids in there". Now believe it or not, I'm not slamming President Obama. It is the job of the Governors of the States hit and their first responders to deal with the situation. FEMA doesn't have the resources or the management to add any value to this or any other disaster, no matter who's in the Whitehouse. Obama riding in on a white horse (or maybe a unicorn in his case) to make a photo op won't warm anyone's home. What I am saying is this: why hasn't the press gone apocalyptic over this situation? Does the President hate white people from Red redneck fly-over states? The story doesn't fit their meme so it doesn't get covered. The MSM will die from its own incompetence and irrelevancy soon if left alone. They won't be left alone, expect a bailout. In fact, I expect some version of the "Fairness Doctrine" to be passed. Rush is successful (whether you agree with him or not) and therefore must be stopped! Now you understand why people like my wife and her friends who lived through the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are not impressed with 'Dear Leader'. Brad On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:14 AM, tootle wrote: > Bill, > > You continue to read the New York Times, a great source of left wing > opinion. Try other sources of information. > > Look and read some of the speeches and articles at this site: > > http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp > > Read the attached right wing opinion... > > Ed K > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 02/01/09 > 18:02:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 08:50:08 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 07:50:08 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros continues... In-Reply-To: <400985d70902030519scbfd3bn160fe19fef15f1a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902030519scbfd3bn160fe19fef15f1a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902030550r262be032k42ad867bb8bcc81d@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Right after I wrote that, a Yahoo news article popped on my screen (written by the AP). A number of bloggers and pundits have noticed a substantial difference between first AP articles published in local papers and subsequent "sanitized" AP articles appearing on national media sites. Below is an article from the Saturday Louisville, KY newspaper and following that is today's Yahoo account. Now who is blowing smoke? Brad ------------------ January 31, 2009 Many pleading for faster response MARION, Ky. (AP) ? A crippling winter storm has plunged about a million customers into the dark from the Midwest to the East Coast, and thousands of people in ice-caked Kentucky have sought refuge in motels and shelters. Dozens of deaths have been reported and many people are pleading for a faster response to the power outages. Some in rural Kentucky ran short of food and bottled water, and resorted to dipping buckets in a creek. Thousands fled frigid, powerless homes for hotels and even a heated auditorium at Murray State University that was converted into a shelter following Monday's storm that left some areas in up to 1 inch ice. Utility workers hoped to speed up efforts Saturday to turn the lights back on. Still, rural communities feared it could be days or even weeks before workers got to areas littered with downed power lines. Temperatures were expected to rise just above freezing Saturday for the first time in days. At least 42 people have died in the icy arc of destruction that began in the Midwest. At least nine deaths were reported in Arkansas, six each in Texas and Missouri, three in Virginia, two each in Oklahoma, Indiana and West Virginia and one in Ohio. Most were blamed on hypothermia, traffic accidents and carbon monoxide poisoning from generators. In Kentucky, where 11 people had died, a man and two women were the latest victims after they were found dead in a southwestern Louisville home. One woman was found in a bed; the other two were found in the garage with a generator, police spokesman Phil Russell said. Meanwhile, the uncertainty of when power might be restored had many appealing for help. Officials urged those in dark homes to leave. "We're asking people to pack a suitcase and head south and find a motel if they have the means, because we can't service everybody in our shelter," said Crittenden County Judge-Executive Fred Brown, who oversees about 9,000 people, many of whom spent a fifth night sleeping in the town's elementary school. Local officials grew angrier at what they said was a lack of help from the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In Kentucky's Grayson County, about 80 miles southwest of Louisville, Emergency Management Director Randell Smith said the 25 National Guardsmen who have responded have no chain saws to clear fallen trees. He said roads are littered with fallen trees and people shivering in bone-chilling cold are in need. "We've got people out in some areas we haven't even visited yet," Smith said. "We don't even know that they're alive." Smith said FEMA was still a no-show days after the storm. "I'm not saying we can't handle it," Smith said. "We're handling it. But it sure would have made life a lot easier." FEMA spokeswoman Mary Hudak said some agency workers had begun working Friday in Kentucky and more help was on the way. Hudak said FEMA also has shipped 50 to 100 generators to the state to supply electricity to such facilities as hospitals, nursing homes and water treatment plants. "We have plenty of folks ready to go, but there are some limitations with roads closed and icy conditions," she noted. >From Missouri to Ohio, thousands were waiting in shelters for the power to return. Others were trying to tough it out at home. In Poplar Bluff, Mo., a man used a barbecue grill inside to cook and keep warm, deputy police chief Jeff Rolland said. "Luckily, one of our volunteers was in a position to see what he was doing and inform him of the carbon monoxide dangers of using a charcoal grill inside a residence," Rolland said. President Barack Obama on Friday declared a federal emergency for Missouri, making the state eligible for federal funds even as power outages lingered in much of the southern portion of the state. In Kentucky, Gov. Steve Beshear said crews were working around the clock to restore power and get food and water to needed areas. Beshear said state government would "spare no expense" in recovery efforts. "We are pulling out all the stops, using all of our resources and devoting our entire energy to this emergency and we will continue to do so until the last home has power, the last road is cleared and the last family is safe," Beshear said. Beshear said 200,000 customers were without water or under an advisory to boil their water Friday night. "By the end of this weekend, we hope to have generators at a majority of the water plants," he said. "In the meantime, we are trucking bottled water into every place we know that needs it, so no one should be without drinking water over the weekend." Laura Howe, a spokeswoman for the American Red Cross, said the organization had opened more than 34 shelters for some 2,000 people. Doris Hemingway, 78, spent three days bundled in blankets to ward off the cold in her Leitchfield mobile home. News that it could take up to six weeks for power to be restored sent Hemingway and his husband, Bill, into a shelter at a local high school. "I'd pray awhile and I'd cry awhile," Doris Hemingway said. "It's the worst I've ever seen." ___ Associated Press writers Roger Alford in Leitchfield; Dylan T. Lovan, Rebecca Yonker, Brett Barrouquere and Janet Cappiello Blake in Louisville; Betsy Taylor in St. Louis; and Randall Dickerson in Nashville, Tenn., contributed to this report. --------- today's version of the same story... FEMA gets decent marks for its ice storm response By ROGER ALFORD, Associated Press Writer Roger Alford, Associated Press Writer Mon Feb 2, 11:01 pm ET EDDYVILLE, Ky. ? In the first real test of the Obama administration's ability to respond to a disaster, Kentucky officials are giving the federal government good marks for its response to a deadly ice storm. Yet more than 300,000 residents remained without power Monday and some areas had yet to see aid workers nearly a week after the storm, a fact not lost on some local authorities. "We haven't seen FEMA. They haven't been here," said Jaime Green, a spokeswoman for the emergency operations center in Lyon County, about 95 miles northwest of Nashville, Tenn. Federal authorities insisted they responded as soon as the state asked for help and promised to keep providing whatever aid was necessary. FEMA has been under the microscope since the Bush administration's botched response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005, which Barack Obama and other Democrats made a favorite topic on the presidential campaign trail. FEMA was reorganized and strengthened after that, and it has avoided the onslaught of negative feedback Katrina generated. The agency hasn't been tested the same way it was after the hurricane, however. Gov. Steve Beshear raised Kentucky's death toll to 24 on Monday, meaning the storm has been blamed in at least 55 deaths nationwide. And while it also knocked out power to more than a million customers from the Southern Plains to the East Coast, it's still considered a medium-sized disaster, the kind FEMA has traditionally been successful handling. The Kentucky disaster will be closely watched, said Richard Sylves, professor of political science at the University of Delaware, particularly because Obama hasn't yet named the top FEMA officials, many of whom must go through Senate confirmation. "If it's perceived not to be handled very well, or if there's a sense that there's insensitivity at the federal level to the plight of people suffering, I imagine the people President Obama has appointed to senior positions in FEMA will be grilled in their confirmation hearings," said Sylves, who has written four books on federal disaster policy. Beshear asked Obama for a disaster declaration to free up federal assistance Thursday, two days after the storm hit, and Obama issued it hours later. Trucks loaded with supplies began arriving at a staging area at Fort Campbell, Ky., on Friday morning, said Mary Hudak, a spokeswoman for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. On Saturday, Beshear ordered all of the state's Army National Guardsmen into action to distribute supplies, many of which came from FEMA. Beshear has consistently praised Obama, a fellow Democrat, for the attention he's devoted to what Beshear calls the biggest natural disaster to hit his state. "We have had tremendous and quick response from President Obama and his administration," Beshear said Monday. "I don't think any of our folks that have dealt with disasters before ever recall as quick a response as we got last Wednesday." Trina Sheets, executive director of the National Emergency Management Association, based in Lexington, Ky., said that from what she's heard, FEMA's response has been very good so far. Her group represents emergency management directors from all 50 states. "The governor's declaration request for an emergency was turned around very, very quickly by FEMA and the White House," said Sheets, who just had her power restored Monday after four days without it. "And President Obama has spoken with the governor of Kentucky on several occasions throughout the event." Sheets said she hadn't heard any complaints so far about the federal response. "FEMA and the Kentucky National Guard are doing everything they can to get things back up and running," Sen. Jim Bunning said. By Monday, FEMA officials were checking in on supply distribution points in some rural areas. FEMA official Don Daniel stopped by to ask emergency management officials in Grayson County, who had criticized FEMA's absence late last week, what they needed. More generators, they told him, to keep essential services such as hospitals and water supplies running. "If they need more, they'll get them," Daniel said. "That need has to be met." Federal authorities hadn't made it everywhere yet, however. Brocton Oglesby, director of emergency management in Hopkins County, said he has seen virtually no contribution from FEMA in the county, where more than half of the 27,000 homes remained without electricity. "They need to be here ? at least a presence, a liaison to work with us, to start feeding information and gearing up for the next stage," Oglesby said. "That's where they're going to be needed the most." Oglesby's seen FEMA show up after other disasters to assess the damages and write checks. Beshear asked for FEMA to have a role on the front end this time, though, and Oglesby said that hasn't happened. "As soon as they want to come in and start working, we're ready to go," he said. Oglesby said he would like FEMA to bring in outside electricians to help go door to door to make sure the electricity is operational in each house once it comes back on. "Right now, mom and pop are going to have to fend for themselves and find an electrician," Oglesby said. "This is where we're needing FEMA's presence." ___ Associated Press writers Joe Biesk in Frankfort, Ky., Dylan T. Lovan in Louisville, Ky., Jeffrey McMurray in Lexington, Ky., Bruce Schreiner in Leitchfield, Ky., and Eileen Sullivan and Frederic J. Frommer in Washington contributed to this report. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > Ed, > > Rush Limbaugh is despised because so much of what he says is common > sense. The Left hates him because he's not "educated", he's rich, and > he has real power to influence voters. That said, I don't listen to > Rush often because he's primarily an entertainer, and I just don't > invest that much time in media entertainment. The market is proving > the winners and losers in the "truth business" and old media is dying > because people are waking-up to the propaganda. You don't see people > in Beijing hanging on to every word printed in the China Daily, and > fewer people are reading the New York Times and then feeling they are > "informed". Last week was a perfect example: over a million people > are still without electricity throughout the MidSouth. Almost fifty > people have died as a result of the storm. The Governor of Kentucky > mobilized 100% of the Kentucky National Guard and told KY residents to > leave the State and head South if they have the resources to do so. > The Red Cross and Salvation Army are on the ground doing the "heavy > lifting" as usual. FEMA is late to the scene as always. Meanwhile, > President Obama is eating $100 steaks at "bipartisan" dinners and > throwing Super Bowl parties at the White House where aides say "he > keeps the temperature so high you could grow orchids in there". Now > believe it or not, I'm not slamming President Obama. It is the job of > the Governors of the States hit and their first responders to deal > with the situation. FEMA doesn't have the resources or the management > to add any value to this or any other disaster, no matter who's in the > Whitehouse. Obama riding in on a white horse (or maybe a unicorn in > his case) to make a photo op won't warm anyone's home. What I am > saying is this: why hasn't the press gone apocalyptic over this > situation? Does the President hate white people from Red redneck > fly-over states? The story doesn't fit their meme so it doesn't get > covered. > > The MSM will die from its own incompetence and irrelevancy soon if > left alone. They won't be left alone, expect a bailout. In fact, I > expect some version of the "Fairness Doctrine" to be passed. Rush is > successful (whether you agree with him or not) and therefore must be > stopped! > > Now you understand why people like my wife and her friends who lived > through the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are not > impressed with 'Dear Leader'. > > Brad > > > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:14 AM, tootle wrote: >> Bill, >> >> You continue to read the New York Times, a great source of left wing >> opinion. Try other sources of information. >> >> Look and read some of the speeches and articles at this site: >> >> http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp >> >> Read the attached right wing opinion... >> >> Ed K >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 02/01/09 >> 18:02:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > From bill at effros.com Tue Feb 3 11:21:33 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:21:33 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros continues... In-Reply-To: <400985d70902030550r262be032k42ad867bb8bcc81d@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902030519scbfd3bn160fe19fef15f1a5@mail.gmail.com> <400985d70902030550r262be032k42ad867bb8bcc81d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49886F0D.8000402@effros.com> Brad, This trend is occurring all over the internet. Information disappears. I have gotten into the habit of downloading everything I think I may want to use in the future--text and photos alike. I do it all day long, and store it on external drives for the future. Bush started it. Obama perfected it. Obama is really the Bush of the left. As you know, I didn't like Bush. I like Obama no better. B. Brad Haslett wrote: > Ed, > > Right after I wrote that, a Yahoo news article popped on my screen > (written by the AP). A number of bloggers and pundits have noticed a > substantial difference between first AP articles published in local > papers and subsequent "sanitized" AP articles appearing on national > media sites. Below is an article from the Saturday Louisville, KY > newspaper and following that is today's Yahoo account. Now who is > blowing smoke? > > Brad > > ------------------ > > January 31, 2009 > > Many pleading for faster response > > MARION, Ky. (AP) ? A crippling winter storm has plunged about a > million customers into the dark from the Midwest to the East Coast, > and thousands of people in ice-caked Kentucky have sought refuge in > motels and shelters. > > Dozens of deaths have been reported and many people are pleading for a > faster response to the power outages. Some in rural Kentucky ran short > of food and bottled water, and resorted to dipping buckets in a creek. > > Thousands fled frigid, powerless homes for hotels and even a heated > auditorium at Murray State University that was converted into a > shelter following Monday's storm that left some areas in up to 1 inch > ice. > > Utility workers hoped to speed up efforts Saturday to turn the lights > back on. Still, rural communities feared it could be days or even > weeks before workers got to areas littered with downed power lines. > > Temperatures were expected to rise just above freezing Saturday for > the first time in days. > > At least 42 people have died in the icy arc of destruction that began > in the Midwest. At least nine deaths were reported in Arkansas, six > each in Texas and Missouri, three in Virginia, two each in Oklahoma, > Indiana and West Virginia and one in Ohio. Most were blamed on > hypothermia, traffic accidents and carbon monoxide poisoning from > generators. > > In Kentucky, where 11 people had died, a man and two women were the > latest victims after they were found dead in a southwestern Louisville > home. One woman was found in a bed; the other two were found in the > garage with a generator, police spokesman Phil Russell said. > > Meanwhile, the uncertainty of when power might be restored had many > appealing for help. Officials urged those in dark homes to leave. > > "We're asking people to pack a suitcase and head south and find a > motel if they have the means, because we can't service everybody in > our shelter," said Crittenden County Judge-Executive Fred Brown, who > oversees about 9,000 people, many of whom spent a fifth night sleeping > in the town's elementary school. > > Local officials grew angrier at what they said was a lack of help from > the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. > > In Kentucky's Grayson County, about 80 miles southwest of Louisville, > Emergency Management Director Randell Smith said the 25 National > Guardsmen who have responded have no chain saws to clear fallen trees. > He said roads are littered with fallen trees and people shivering in > bone-chilling cold are in need. > > "We've got people out in some areas we haven't even visited yet," > Smith said. "We don't even know that they're alive." > > Smith said FEMA was still a no-show days after the storm. > > "I'm not saying we can't handle it," Smith said. "We're handling it. > But it sure would have made life a lot easier." > > FEMA spokeswoman Mary Hudak said some agency workers had begun working > Friday in Kentucky and more help was on the way. Hudak said FEMA also > has shipped 50 to 100 generators to the state to supply electricity to > such facilities as hospitals, nursing homes and water treatment > plants. > "We have plenty of folks ready to go, but there are some limitations > with roads closed and icy conditions," she noted. > > >From Missouri to Ohio, thousands were waiting in shelters for the > power to return. Others were trying to tough it out at home. > > In Poplar Bluff, Mo., a man used a barbecue grill inside to cook and > keep warm, deputy police chief Jeff Rolland said. > > "Luckily, one of our volunteers was in a position to see what he was > doing and inform him of the carbon monoxide dangers of using a > charcoal grill inside a residence," Rolland said. > > President Barack Obama on Friday declared a federal emergency for > Missouri, making the state eligible for federal funds even as power > outages lingered in much of the southern portion of the state. > > In Kentucky, Gov. Steve Beshear said crews were working around the > clock to restore power and get food and water to needed areas. Beshear > said state government would "spare no expense" in recovery efforts. > > "We are pulling out all the stops, using all of our resources and > devoting our entire energy to this emergency and we will continue to > do so until the last home has power, the last road is cleared and the > last family is safe," Beshear said. > > Beshear said 200,000 customers were without water or under an advisory > to boil their water Friday night. > > "By the end of this weekend, we hope to have generators at a majority > of the water plants," he said. "In the meantime, we are trucking > bottled water into every place we know that needs it, so no one should > be without drinking water over the weekend." > > Laura Howe, a spokeswoman for the American Red Cross, said the > organization had opened more than 34 shelters for some 2,000 people. > > Doris Hemingway, 78, spent three days bundled in blankets to ward off > the cold in her Leitchfield mobile home. News that it could take up to > six weeks for power to be restored sent Hemingway and his husband, > Bill, into a shelter at a local high school. > > "I'd pray awhile and I'd cry awhile," Doris Hemingway said. "It's the > worst I've ever seen." > ___ > Associated Press writers Roger Alford in Leitchfield; Dylan T. Lovan, > Rebecca Yonker, Brett Barrouquere and Janet Cappiello Blake in > Louisville; Betsy Taylor in St. Louis; and Randall Dickerson in > Nashville, Tenn., contributed to this report. > > --------- > > today's version of the same story... > > FEMA gets decent marks for its ice storm response > By ROGER ALFORD, Associated Press Writer Roger Alford, Associated > Press Writer Mon Feb 2, 11:01 pm ET > > EDDYVILLE, Ky. ? In the first real test of the Obama administration's > ability to respond to a disaster, Kentucky officials are giving the > federal government good marks for its response to a deadly ice storm. > > Yet more than 300,000 residents remained without power Monday and some > areas had yet to see aid workers nearly a week after the storm, a fact > not lost on some local authorities. > > "We haven't seen FEMA. They haven't been here," said Jaime Green, a > spokeswoman for the emergency operations center in Lyon County, about > 95 miles northwest of Nashville, Tenn. > > Federal authorities insisted they responded as soon as the state asked > for help and promised to keep providing whatever aid was necessary. > > FEMA has been under the microscope since the Bush administration's > botched response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005, which Barack Obama and > other Democrats made a favorite topic on the presidential campaign > trail. FEMA was reorganized and strengthened after that, and it has > avoided the onslaught of negative feedback Katrina generated. > > The agency hasn't been tested the same way it was after the hurricane, however. > > Gov. Steve Beshear raised Kentucky's death toll to 24 on Monday, > meaning the storm has been blamed in at least 55 deaths nationwide. > And while it also knocked out power to more than a million customers > from the Southern Plains to the East Coast, it's still considered a > medium-sized disaster, the kind FEMA has traditionally been successful > handling. > > The Kentucky disaster will be closely watched, said Richard Sylves, > professor of political science at the University of Delaware, > particularly because Obama hasn't yet named the top FEMA officials, > many of whom must go through Senate confirmation. > > "If it's perceived not to be handled very well, or if there's a sense > that there's insensitivity at the federal level to the plight of > people suffering, I imagine the people President Obama has appointed > to senior positions in FEMA will be grilled in their confirmation > hearings," said Sylves, who has written four books on federal disaster > policy. > > Beshear asked Obama for a disaster declaration to free up federal > assistance Thursday, two days after the storm hit, and Obama issued it > hours later. Trucks loaded with supplies began arriving at a staging > area at Fort Campbell, Ky., on Friday morning, said Mary Hudak, a > spokeswoman for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. > > On Saturday, Beshear ordered all of the state's Army National > Guardsmen into action to distribute supplies, many of which came from > FEMA. > > Beshear has consistently praised Obama, a fellow Democrat, for the > attention he's devoted to what Beshear calls the biggest natural > disaster to hit his state. > > "We have had tremendous and quick response from President Obama and > his administration," Beshear said Monday. "I don't think any of our > folks that have dealt with disasters before ever recall as quick a > response as we got last Wednesday." > > Trina Sheets, executive director of the National Emergency Management > Association, based in Lexington, Ky., said that from what she's heard, > FEMA's response has been very good so far. Her group represents > emergency management directors from all 50 states. > > "The governor's declaration request for an emergency was turned around > very, very quickly by FEMA and the White House," said Sheets, who just > had her power restored Monday after four days without it. "And > President Obama has spoken with the governor of Kentucky on several > occasions throughout the event." > > Sheets said she hadn't heard any complaints so far about the federal response. > > "FEMA and the Kentucky National Guard are doing everything they can to > get things back up and running," Sen. Jim Bunning said. > > By Monday, FEMA officials were checking in on supply distribution > points in some rural areas. FEMA official Don Daniel stopped by to ask > emergency management officials in Grayson County, who had criticized > FEMA's absence late last week, what they needed. > > More generators, they told him, to keep essential services such as > hospitals and water supplies running. > > "If they need more, they'll get them," Daniel said. "That need has to be met." > > Federal authorities hadn't made it everywhere yet, however. > > Brocton Oglesby, director of emergency management in Hopkins County, > said he has seen virtually no contribution from FEMA in the county, > where more than half of the 27,000 homes remained without electricity. > > "They need to be here ? at least a presence, a liaison to work with > us, to start feeding information and gearing up for the next stage," > Oglesby said. "That's where they're going to be needed the most." > > Oglesby's seen FEMA show up after other disasters to assess the > damages and write checks. Beshear asked for FEMA to have a role on the > front end this time, though, and Oglesby said that hasn't happened. > > "As soon as they want to come in and start working, we're ready to go," he said. > > Oglesby said he would like FEMA to bring in outside electricians to > help go door to door to make sure the electricity is operational in > each house once it comes back on. > > "Right now, mom and pop are going to have to fend for themselves and > find an electrician," Oglesby said. "This is where we're needing > FEMA's presence." > > ___ > > Associated Press writers Joe Biesk in Frankfort, Ky., Dylan T. Lovan > in Louisville, Ky., Jeffrey McMurray in Lexington, Ky., Bruce > Schreiner in Leitchfield, Ky., and Eileen Sullivan and Frederic J. > Frommer in Washington contributed to this report. > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Brad Haslett wrote: > >> Ed, >> >> Rush Limbaugh is despised because so much of what he says is common >> sense. The Left hates him because he's not "educated", he's rich, and >> he has real power to influence voters. That said, I don't listen to >> Rush often because he's primarily an entertainer, and I just don't >> invest that much time in media entertainment. The market is proving >> the winners and losers in the "truth business" and old media is dying >> because people are waking-up to the propaganda. You don't see people >> in Beijing hanging on to every word printed in the China Daily, and >> fewer people are reading the New York Times and then feeling they are >> "informed". Last week was a perfect example: over a million people >> are still without electricity throughout the MidSouth. Almost fifty >> people have died as a result of the storm. The Governor of Kentucky >> mobilized 100% of the Kentucky National Guard and told KY residents to >> leave the State and head South if they have the resources to do so. >> The Red Cross and Salvation Army are on the ground doing the "heavy >> lifting" as usual. FEMA is late to the scene as always. Meanwhile, >> President Obama is eating $100 steaks at "bipartisan" dinners and >> throwing Super Bowl parties at the White House where aides say "he >> keeps the temperature so high you could grow orchids in there". Now >> believe it or not, I'm not slamming President Obama. It is the job of >> the Governors of the States hit and their first responders to deal >> with the situation. FEMA doesn't have the resources or the management >> to add any value to this or any other disaster, no matter who's in the >> Whitehouse. Obama riding in on a white horse (or maybe a unicorn in >> his case) to make a photo op won't warm anyone's home. What I am >> saying is this: why hasn't the press gone apocalyptic over this >> situation? Does the President hate white people from Red redneck >> fly-over states? The story doesn't fit their meme so it doesn't get >> covered. >> >> The MSM will die from its own incompetence and irrelevancy soon if >> left alone. They won't be left alone, expect a bailout. In fact, I >> expect some version of the "Fairness Doctrine" to be passed. Rush is >> successful (whether you agree with him or not) and therefore must be >> stopped! >> >> Now you understand why people like my wife and her friends who lived >> through the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are not >> impressed with 'Dear Leader'. >> >> Brad >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:14 AM, tootle wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> You continue to read the New York Times, a great source of left wing >>> opinion. Try other sources of information. >>> >>> Look and read some of the speeches and articles at this site: >>> >>> http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp >>> >>> Read the attached right wing opinion... >>> >>> Ed K >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 02/01/09 >>> 18:02:00 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090203/b24a3379/attachment-0001.html From ragdollelle at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 21:35:46 2009 From: ragdollelle at yahoo.com (elle) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:35:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NINE WORDS WOMEN USE In-Reply-To: <49860883.6070809@effros.com> Message-ID: <346232.30435.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks, Bill. I'll take that in the spirit it was written! elle --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Bill Effros wrote: > From: Bill Effros > Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] NINE WORDS WOMEN USE > To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:39 PM > Elle, > > I'm sure everyone here will be glad to learn they are > being watched by you. > > B. > > > > Elle Saylor wrote: > > That's Okay...... > > > > Just remember that you are being watched......;^) > > > > elle > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Bill Effros > wrote: > > > > > >> From: Bill Effros > >> Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] NINE WORDS WOMEN USE > >> To: "SwiftwaterGazette" > > >> Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 11:03 PM > >> *NINE WORDS WOMEN USE * > >> > >> * > >> (1) ** **_Fine _**: ** **This is the word women > use to > >> end an argument when they are right and you need > to shut up. > >> * * > >> (2) ** **_Five Minutes _**: ** **If she is > getting > >> dressed, this means a half an hour. Five minutes > is only > >> five minutes if you have just been given five more > minutes > >> to watch the game before helping around the house. > * * > >> (3) ** **_Nothing _**: ** **This is the calm > before the > >> storm. This means something, and you should be on > your toes. > >> Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in > fine. * * > >> (4) ** **_Go Ahead _**: ** **This is a dare, not > >> permission. Don't Do It! * * > >> (5) ** **_Loud Sigh _**: ** **This is actually a > word, > >> but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood > by men. A > >> loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and > wonders why > >> she is wasting her time standing here and arguing > with you > >> about nothing. (Refer back to # 3 for the meaning > of > >> nothing.) * * > >> (6) ** **_That's Okay _**: ** **This is one > of the > >> most dangerous statements a women can make to a > man. > >> That's okay means she wants to think long and > hard > >> before deciding how and when you will pay for your > mistake. > >> * * > >> (7) ** **_Thanks _**: ** **A woman is thanking > you, do > >> not question, or faint. Just say you're > welcome. (I want > >> to add in a clause here - This is true, unless she > says > >> 'Thanks a lot' - that is PURE sarcasm and > she is not > >> thanking you at all. DO NOT say 'you're > welcome' > >> . that will bring on a 'whatever'). * * > >> (8) ** **_Whatever _**: ** **Is a woman's > way of > >> saying ** **F-- ** **YOU! * * > >> (9) ** **_Don't worry about it, I got it _**: > ** > >> **Another dangerous statement, meaning this is > something > >> that a woman has told a man to do several times, > but is now > >> doing it herself. This will later result in a man > asking > >> 'What's wrong?' For the woman's > response > >> refer to # 3. * * > >> * Send this to the men you know, to warn them > about > >> arguments they can ** **avoid if they remember > the > >> terminology. * * > >> *** Send this to all the women you know to give > them a good > >> laugh, cause they know it's true!! * > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > >> > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 07:18:04 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 06:18:04 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! Message-ID: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out I'll have to lose my job twice. http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? Brad From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 08:46:09 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:46:09 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! In-Reply-To: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com> Brad, Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't the brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... Rik "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein Brad Haslett wrote: > Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out > I'll have to lose my job twice. > > http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt > > I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 09:10:28 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 08:10:28 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! In-Reply-To: <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com> References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> Rik, Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the Secretary of the Treasury". I'm starting to like these guys. Brad On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Brad, > > Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't the > brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? > > Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... > > Rik > > "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >> I'll have to lose my job twice. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >> >> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >> >> Brad >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 09:33:36 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:33:36 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! In-Reply-To: <400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com> <400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4989A740.8030108@gmail.com> Brad, Man you got great timing. I sure wish they'da had that program in '07 when we sold our business. Felt like I was supporting a couple small countries. Poor timing again because wouldn't you know, I couldn't even collect on their stupid rebate. Who was it that had the stones to call that a rebate anyway?? Rik "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, > > Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading > doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. > All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little > interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital > gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of > Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you > just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS > audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the > Secretary of the Treasury". > > I'm starting to like these guys. > > Brad > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Brad, >> >> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't the >> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >> >> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >> >> Rik >> >> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>> >>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>> >>> Brad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Feb 4 17:02:35 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:02:35 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Political: New flavor Message-ID: Baskin Robbins is introducing an ice cream flavor in honor of the new administration, "Barocky Road" It's half vanilla, half chocolate, surrounded by fruits and nuts! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090204/50e9d20a/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Feb 4 17:37:37 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:37:37 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com><49899C21.6010805@gmail.com> <400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <380BB220EA4D426F9695A23F5E4B4A16@ebsoffice> Brad, Although I really like your version of Obama-Tax, you might like to check out the financial calculator "2009 Economic Stimulus Tax Comparison Calculator" at: http://www.yourmoneypage.com/campaign2008/form_1040.php With a family of four and 1 child tax eligible dependent and 1 in college, it appears that no tax is paid until income exceeds $57,000! Wow! I think that it needs to be re-tooled so that I can enter the tax that I would be willing to pay and then find out how much my '09 income should be. We used to joke that after April or May we were finally working for ourselves instead of our Uncle. Nowadays, I am afraid, folks will stop working once they have reached their tax goal for the year. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:10 AM > Rik, > > Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading > doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. > All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little > interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital > gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of > Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you > just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS > audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the > Secretary of the Treasury". > > I'm starting to like these guys. > > Brad > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> Brad, >> >> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't the >> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >> >> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >> >> Rik >> >> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>> >>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>> >>> Brad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Feb 4 17:39:54 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:39:54 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com><400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> <4989A740.8030108@gmail.com> Message-ID: Rik, Of course had you waited too sell in '08 you would have saved a lot of tax, been eligible for the rebate and poor as church mice as you try in vain to sell the business. Be happy that you received a fair price and just pay the taxes. Mike From: "Rik Sandberg" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:33 AM > Brad, > > Man you got great timing. I sure wish they'da had that program in '07 > when we sold our business. Felt like I was supporting a couple small > countries. Poor timing again because wouldn't you know, I couldn't even > collect on their stupid rebate. > > Who was it that had the stones to call that a rebate anyway?? > > Rik > > "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate > preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Rik, >> >> Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading >> doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. >> All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little >> interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital >> gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of >> Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you >> just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS >> audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the >> Secretary of the Treasury". >> >> I'm starting to like these guys. >> >> Brad >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg >> wrote: >> >>> Brad, >>> >>> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't the >>> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >>> >>> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >>> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >>>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >>>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>>> >>>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 18:11:08 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:11:08 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! In-Reply-To: References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com><400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> <4989A740.8030108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <498A208C.2050300@gmail.com> Michael, Sorry, but like todays bankster CEOs, I'd kinda like to eat my cake .... and have it too. Just call me greedy. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Rik, > > Of course had you waited too sell in '08 you would have saved a lot of tax, > been eligible for the rebate and poor as church mice as you try in vain to > sell the business. Be happy that you received a fair price and just pay the > taxes. > > Mike > > From: "Rik Sandberg" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:33 AM > >> Brad, >> >> Man you got great timing. I sure wish they'da had that program in '07 >> when we sold our business. Felt like I was supporting a couple small >> countries. Poor timing again because wouldn't you know, I couldn't even >> collect on their stupid rebate. >> >> Who was it that had the stones to call that a rebate anyway?? >> >> Rik >> >> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Rik, >>> >>> Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading >>> doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. >>> All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little >>> interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital >>> gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of >>> Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you >>> just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS >>> audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the >>> Secretary of the Treasury". >>> >>> I'm starting to like these guys. >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Brad, >>>> >>>> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't the >>>> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >>>> >>>> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >>>> >>>> Rik >>>> >>>> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >>>> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >>>>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>>>> >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>>>> >>>>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>>>> >>>>> Brad >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 18:28:13 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:28:13 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! In-Reply-To: <380BB220EA4D426F9695A23F5E4B4A16@ebsoffice> References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com> <400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> <380BB220EA4D426F9695A23F5E4B4A16@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <400985d70902041528t2be8b9dwff1f99fbab2007b3@mail.gmail.com> Mike, My tax didn't change with the calculator. I know what that means. If everyone else gets a "tax cut" and I don't pay anymore, the rest will come from borrowed or printed money. Then someone will get the bright idea to tax "the rich" to pay back the loans. That's pretty much the idea from the get/go but you can't say that in public. It doesn't matter, I'm switching professions anyway. Senator Dachle worked for a law firm and made over 2 million in just a few years. He's not a lawyer and neither am I. He must have been a custodian. Hell, I've got lot's of experience with a broom. Do these people really think we're that stupid? Silly question, don't bother to answer. Brad On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > Although I really like your version of Obama-Tax, you might like to check > out the financial calculator "2009 Economic Stimulus Tax Comparison > Calculator" at: > http://www.yourmoneypage.com/campaign2008/form_1040.php > > With a family of four and 1 child tax eligible dependent and 1 in college, > it appears that no tax is paid until income exceeds $57,000! Wow! I think > that it needs to be re-tooled so that I can enter the tax that I would be > willing to pay and then find out how much my '09 income should be. We used > to joke that after April or May we were finally working for ourselves > instead of our Uncle. Nowadays, I am afraid, folks will stop working once > they have reached their tax goal for the year. > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:10 AM >> Rik, >> >> Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading >> doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. >> All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little >> interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital >> gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of >> Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you >> just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS >> audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the >> Secretary of the Treasury". >> >> I'm starting to like these guys. >> >> Brad >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> Brad, >>> >>> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't the >>> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >>> >>> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >>> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >>>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>>> >>>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Feb 4 18:41:13 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 18:41:13 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com><49899C21.6010805@gmail.com><400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com><380BB220EA4D426F9695A23F5E4B4A16@ebsoffice> <400985d70902041528t2be8b9dwff1f99fbab2007b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1D20AE8560D2450889E1F613CA5C88A7@ebsoffice> Brad, Forget the broom, you need a shovel when it's that deep. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:28 PM > Mike, > > My tax didn't change with the calculator. I know what that means. If > everyone else gets a "tax cut" and I don't pay anymore, the rest will > come from borrowed or printed money. Then someone will get the bright > idea to tax "the rich" to pay back the loans. That's pretty much the > idea from the get/go but you can't say that in public. It doesn't > matter, I'm switching professions anyway. Senator Dachle worked for a > law firm and made over 2 million in just a few years. He's not a > lawyer and neither am I. He must have been a custodian. Hell, I've > got lot's of experience with a broom. > > Do these people really think we're that stupid? Silly question, don't > bother to answer. > > Brad > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Michael D. Weisner > wrote: >> Brad, >> >> Although I really like your version of Obama-Tax, you might like to check >> out the financial calculator "2009 Economic Stimulus Tax Comparison >> Calculator" at: >> http://www.yourmoneypage.com/campaign2008/form_1040.php >> >> With a family of four and 1 child tax eligible dependent and 1 in >> college, >> it appears that no tax is paid until income exceeds $57,000! Wow! I >> think >> that it needs to be re-tooled so that I can enter the tax that I would be >> willing to pay and then find out how much my '09 income should be. We >> used >> to joke that after April or May we were finally working for ourselves >> instead of our Uncle. Nowadays, I am afraid, folks will stop working >> once >> they have reached their tax goal for the year. >> >> Mike >> >> From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:10 AM >>> Rik, >>> >>> Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading >>> doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. >>> All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little >>> interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital >>> gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of >>> Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you >>> just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS >>> audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the >>> Secretary of the Treasury". >>> >>> I'm starting to like these guys. >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg >>> wrote: >>>> Brad, >>>> >>>> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't >>>> the >>>> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >>>> >>>> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >>>> >>>> Rik >>>> >>>> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >>>> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >>>>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>>>> >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>>>> >>>>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>>>> >>>>> Brad >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 18:46:16 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:46:16 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! In-Reply-To: <1D20AE8560D2450889E1F613CA5C88A7@ebsoffice> References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com> <49899C21.6010805@gmail.com> <400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com> <380BB220EA4D426F9695A23F5E4B4A16@ebsoffice> <400985d70902041528t2be8b9dwff1f99fbab2007b3@mail.gmail.com> <1D20AE8560D2450889E1F613CA5C88A7@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <400985d70902041546w45ac61fdld9318df5ccbc93bc@mail.gmail.com> Mike, Jesus! We're talking about a lot of money since the time of Jesus! http://tinyurl.com/ct6lwx I haven't had this much fun since college - "hell, I can't be broke, I've still got checks left". Brad On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > Forget the broom, you need a shovel when it's that deep. > > Mike > > > From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:28 PM >> Mike, >> >> My tax didn't change with the calculator. I know what that means. If >> everyone else gets a "tax cut" and I don't pay anymore, the rest will >> come from borrowed or printed money. Then someone will get the bright >> idea to tax "the rich" to pay back the loans. That's pretty much the >> idea from the get/go but you can't say that in public. It doesn't >> matter, I'm switching professions anyway. Senator Dachle worked for a >> law firm and made over 2 million in just a few years. He's not a >> lawyer and neither am I. He must have been a custodian. Hell, I've >> got lot's of experience with a broom. >> >> Do these people really think we're that stupid? Silly question, don't >> bother to answer. >> >> Brad >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Michael D. Weisner >> wrote: >>> Brad, >>> >>> Although I really like your version of Obama-Tax, you might like to check >>> out the financial calculator "2009 Economic Stimulus Tax Comparison >>> Calculator" at: >>> http://www.yourmoneypage.com/campaign2008/form_1040.php >>> >>> With a family of four and 1 child tax eligible dependent and 1 in >>> college, >>> it appears that no tax is paid until income exceeds $57,000! Wow! I >>> think >>> that it needs to be re-tooled so that I can enter the tax that I would be >>> willing to pay and then find out how much my '09 income should be. We >>> used >>> to joke that after April or May we were finally working for ourselves >>> instead of our Uncle. Nowadays, I am afraid, folks will stop working >>> once >>> they have reached their tax goal for the year. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:10 AM >>>> Rik, >>>> >>>> Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading >>>> doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. >>>> All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little >>>> interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital >>>> gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of >>>> Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you >>>> just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS >>>> audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the >>>> Secretary of the Treasury". >>>> >>>> I'm starting to like these guys. >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg >>>> wrote: >>>>> Brad, >>>>> >>>>> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't >>>>> the >>>>> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >>>>> >>>>> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >>>>> >>>>> Rik >>>>> >>>>> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >>>>> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>>>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find out >>>>>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>>>>> >>>>>> Brad >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From tootle at charter.net Wed Feb 4 20:22:18 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:22:18 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] IRS & Tax code Message-ID: <5DC8BE3C7DC147E0A7946F19EBC0AB0B@YOURB88038198E> Ho, ho, ho, see: http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/joseph-onorati/tax-code-too-complicated-for-obamas-team Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090204/0d9c4ee2/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090204/0d9c4ee2/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 20:41:59 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:41:59 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] We taught those rich bastards a lesson! Message-ID: <400985d70902041741m64c21762qf38dc043a0ffe8ab@mail.gmail.com> More bad economic news after a re-visit to this wisdom - "You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." ------------------------------ Tuesday, February 3, 2009 An official with Hawker Beechcraft said today the company will cut 2,300 jobs. The cuts will take place before the end of 2009. Hawker Beechcraft operates plants in Wichita and Salina. The company has 9,800 workers worldwide. The cuts are equal to roughly 25% of Hawker's workforce. Employees are being notified of the news today. A company official said some of the employees could learn of their layoffs as early as Friday. "The bottom line is that we must be prepared to do whatever is required to make certain that we successfully emerge from the downturn and are able to provide future generations with the kinds of jobs that we and previous generations have enjoyed", said Hawker Beechcraft CEO Jim Schuster in a letter to employees. The entire letter is included below. The cuts announced today come nearly three months after Hawker Beechcraft laid off 490 workers. # Letter to Hawker Beechcraft Workers February 3, 2009 Dear Fellow Hawker Beechcraft Employee: In early January, I announced the regrettable but necessary need for Hawker Beechcraft to further reduce its production and workforce levels due to the increasing severity of the global economic decline. I also promised to keep you updated as we completed changes to our business plans. In the short time since my last communication, we have experienced increased erosion across our industry and the global economy. In addition to declining orders and deliveries, we are facing a host of new challenges: ? The government's stimulus package has failed to sufficiently loosen credit markets, which are absolutely vital to the success of HBC and our industry ? Orders from previously high-volume business segments - the fractional market in particular - have slowed considerably ? The media and some politicians have cast general aviation as a wasteful extravagance instead of a critical business tool and the source of millions of American jobs. A recent editorial in the New York Times pointed out just how inaccurate and potentially damaging this portrayal is: - More than one million Americans are employed in manufacturing, managing and maintaining business aircraft - American aircraft manufacturers dominate the industry globally with half of all U.S. production exported to overseas markets - Business aviation contributes $150 billion annually to the U.S. economy The increased challenges that lay before us demand an extraordinary response from our company and the U.S. aviation industry to ensure our short-term stability and long-term success. Therefore, we at HBC have conducted a sweeping evaluation of our business plans and implemented a wide range of measures to dramatically reduce our costs. As a consequence of these actions, we will be forced to reduce our workforce by approximately 2,300 employees before the end of the year. The majority will be notified by their management on February 6th. This is an extremely painful step for the HBC family and community, but one that is absolutely necessary. While I wish I could commit to you that this will be our final action, I cannot do so at this time given the extreme volatility in the marketplace. The bottom line is that we must be prepared to do whatever is required to make certain that we successfully emerge from the downturn and are able to provide future generations with the kinds of jobs that we and previous generations have enjoyed. We are undoubtedly facing one of the most severe tests in our company's history. However, I want to make clear that I firmly believe HBC, above all others, has the right brands, the right products and most of all, the right people to see us through to a brighter future. Sincerely, Jim Schuster Chairman and CEO From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 06:13:55 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 05:13:55 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Craigslist Car Ad Message-ID: <400985d70902050313s1e416e3cr9bbcb3038a4b9ac9@mail.gmail.com> Maybe Detroit needs a new advertising angle. This is an actual used car ad from Craigslist. ----------------- NINJA HAULER: 2005 Nissan Xterra - $12900 (Ronan / Lake County ) ________________________________________ Reply to: sale-926508578 at craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-11-19, 10:04PM MST OK, let me start off by saying this Xterra is only available for purchase by the manliest of men (or women) . My friend, if it was possible for a vehicle to sprout chest hair and a five o'clock shadow, this Nissan would look like Tom Selleck . It is just that manly . It was never intended to drive to the mall so you can pick up that adorable shirt at Abercrombie & Fitch that you had your eye on . It wasn't meant to transport you to yoga class or Linens & Things . No, that's what your Prius is for . If that's the kind of car you're looking for, then just do us all a favor and stop reading right now . I mean it . Just stop . This car was engineered by 3rd degree ninja super-warriors in the highest mountains of Japan to serve the needs of the man that cheats death on a daily basis . They didn't even consider superfluous nancy boy amenities like navigation systems (real men don't get lost), heated leather seats (a real man doesn't let anything warm his butt), or On Star (real men don't even know what On Star is) . No, this brute comes with the things us testosterone-fueled super action junkies need . It has a 265 HP engine to outrun the cops . It's got special blood/gore resistant upholstery . It even has a first-aid kit in the back . You know what the first aid kit has in it? A pint of whiskey, a stitch-your-own-wound kit and a hunk of leather to bite down on when you're operating on yourself . The Xterra also has an automatic transmission so if you're being chased by Libyan terrorists, you'll still be able to shoot your machine gun out the window and drive at the same time . It's saved my bacon more than once . It has room for you and the four hotties you picked up on the way to the gym to blast your pecs and hammer your glutes . There's a tow hitch to pull your 50 caliber anti-Taliban, self cooling machine gun . I also just put in a new windshield to replace the one that got shot out by The Man . My price on this bad boy is an incredibly low $12,900, but I'll entertain reasonable offers . And by reasonable, I mean don't walk up and tell me you'll give me $5,000 for it . That's liable to earn you a Burmese-roundhouse-sphincter-kick with a follow up three fingered eye-jab . Would it hurt? Hell yeah . Let's just say you won't be the prettiest guy at the Coldplay concert anymore . There's only 69,000 miles on this four-wheeled hellcat from Planet Kickass . Trust me, it will outlive you and the offspring that will carry your name . It will live on as a monument to your machismo . Now, go look in the mirror and tell me what you see . If it's a rugged, no holds barred, super brute he-man macho Chuck Norris stunt double, then contact me . I might be out hang-gliding or BASE jumping or just chilling with my ladies, but I'll get back to you . And when I do, we'll talk about a price over a nice glass of Schmidt while we listen to Johnny Cash . To sweeten the deal a little, I'm throwing in this pair of MC Hammer pants for the man with rippling quads that can't fit into regular pants . Yeah, you heard me . FREE MC Hammer pants . Rock on . From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 07:17:27 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 06:17:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Sarah Message-ID: <400985d70902050417q9e8b362x62754d98c4ab059d@mail.gmail.com> Here's a good read on Sarah. -------------------- Commentary online The Meaning of Sarah Palin Yuval Levin From issue: February 2009 Two political figures dominated the final months of the 2008 presidential campaign. One was the Democratic nominee, Barack Obama. The other had been unknown to all but 670,000 Americans only a few minutes before she was first introduced by the Republican nominee, John McCain, at a rally in Ohio on the Friday before the Republican National Convention, only 66 days before the November election. By the close of that first weekend, Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska had become a national sensation. Two days after that, she delivered her debut address at the Republican National Convention as the party's vice-presidential nominee?a dazzling stemwinder, it was all but universally acknowledged. McCain's dramatic and unexpected bet appeared to have paid off in spades. But by November 4, the day of the election, Sarah Palin had been transformed into one of the most divisive figures in recent American history. There was almost no middle ground between those who had come to adore her and those who believed she represented just about every dark and dangerous element of contemporary American politics. In choosing Palin, McCain had hoped to shake up the race; but the fault lines exposed by the Palin earthquake were not the ones he had thought they might be. He had wanted to run against the Washington status quo as a reformer with an independent streak. He believed he was picking a fellow reformist politician with a history of taking on the leadership of her own party, and that Palin would prove acceptable to the Republican base because of her social conservatism. Instead, Palin became an instant cultural and political magnet, attracting some and repelling others and dragging a helpless McCain into a culture war for which he had little stomach. Indeed, the overheated response to Palin's presence on the national stage, from both friend and foe, was oddly disconnected from Palin's actual actions, statements, and record. It was a turn of events no one could have anticipated, and one that has much to teach us about American political life in our day. _____________ Before her elevation, Palin had not been known as a combatant in the cultural battles of recent years. She had been serving as the popular chief executive of a geographically vast, sparsely populated, and economically vital state. She held conventionally conservative Republican views?pro-gun, anti-tax, and pro-life. She had risen to prominence by taking on Alaska's corrupt and profligate Republican establishment. In running for and winning the governorship in 2006, she had promised (and had begun to deliver) reforms of the state's relationship with Washington and with the oil companies that dominated its economy. In all these respects, Palin was an uncanny match for John McCain. Her political style and priorities resembled McCain's in a way that no other senior Republican elected official's did. Her conservatism, like McCain's, was more an attitude than an ideology: it was a kind of moralistic anti-corruptionism, obsessed with honest dealing and powerfully allergic to excess and waste. Palin did not, of course, share McCain's foreign-policy expertise or his heroic biography, but she shared what he often stressed most about himself, and what he most wanted to run on: she was, as the public would soon be informed ad nauseam, a reforming maverick. Palin's social conservatism had never been the core of her political identity in Alaska. She always expressed general support for traditionalist views in interviews and debates, and it was widely known that she had also chosen to proceed with her fifth pregnancy after discovering the child had Down syndrome?a discovery that in about nine of ten cases leads parents to opt for abortion. But Palin never went out of her way to raise abortion or other social or cultural issues, and in her first two years as governor had not sought to change state policies in these areas. She was a good-government reformer with social conservative leanings, not the other way around. _____________ But this was not how Palin was received on the national scene. Instead, her views on matters of cultural and social controversy very quickly became the chief focus of media attention, liberal criticism, and pundit analysis. Palin was assigned every view and position the Left considered unenlightened, and the response to her brought into the light all manner of implicit liberal assumptions about cultural conservatives. We were told that Palin was opposed to contraception, advocated teaching creationism in schools, and was inclined to ban books she disagreed with. She was described as a religious zealot, an anti-abortion extremist, a blind champion of abstinence-only sex education. She was said to have sought to make rape victims pay for their own medical exams, to have Alaska secede from the Union, and to get Pat Buchanan elected President. She was reported to believe that the Iraq war was mandated by God, that the end-times prophesied in the Book of Revelation were nearing and only Alaska would survive, and that global warming was purely a myth. None of this was true. Her personal life came under withering assault as well. Palin's capacity to function as a senior elected official while raising five children was repeatedly questioned by liberal pundits who would never dare to express such views about a female candidate whose opinions were more congenial to them. Her teenage daughter's pregnancy was splattered all over the front pages (garnering three New York Times stories in a single day on September 2). Some bloggers even suggested her youngest child had not issued from her, but from her daughter instead, and that she had participated in a bizarre cover-up. I attended a gathering in Washington at which a prominent columnist wondered aloud how Palin could pursue her career when her religious beliefs denied women the right to work outside the home. Palin became the embodiment of every dark fantasy the Left had ever held about the views of evangelical Christians and women who do not associate themselves with contemporary feminism, and all concern for clarity and truthfulness was left at the door. To be sure, some criticisms of Palin were entirely appropriate. She had no experience in foreign or defense policy and very little expertise in or command of either. In a time of war, with a seventy-two-year-old presidential candidate who had already survived one bout with cancer, this was a cause for very real concern. And Palin did perform dreadfully in some early interviews. Some of her more level-headed critics did make their case on these grounds. But the more common visceral hostility toward her seemed to have little to do with these objections. Rather, the entire episode had the feel of a kind of manic outburst; it was triggered by a false understanding of who Palin was, and once it began, there was no stopping or controlling it. The reaction to Palin revealed a deep and intense cultural paranoia on the Left: an inclination to see retrograde reaction around every corner, and to respond to it with vile anger. A confident, happy, and politically effective woman who was also a social conservative was evidently too much to bear. The response of liberal feminists was in this respect particularly telling, and especially unpleasant. "Her greatest hypocrisy is her pretense that she is a woman," wrote Wendy Doniger, a professor at the University of Chicago. "Having someone who looks like you and behaves like them," said Gloria Steinem, "who looks like a friend but behaves like an adversary, is worse than having no one." This preposterous effort to excommunicate Palin from her gender suggests that the kind of new-order feminism she represents?a feminism that embraces cultural traditionalism and workplace egalitarianism at the same time?is especially frightening to those on the feminist Left because they recognize its power and appeal. The attempt to destroy Sarah Palin by rushing to paint her as a backwoods extremist was not a show of strength, but rather a sign of desperation. _____________ Meanwhile, on the Right, Palin was the cause of a manic episode of a different sort. The governor's touching life story, her folksy way of speaking, and her gut-level appeal to the culture of the lower middle class exercised tremendous power over many conservatives, which inclined them to fill the sizable blanks in Palin's political profile with their own wishful assumptions, and to make flustered excuses for her shortcomings. There was a strong case to be made in her defense. Palin had as much foreign-policy experience as most governors do, and Americans have been willing time and again to overlook such inexperience in their hunger for proven executive acumen in Washington. (Four of the last five Presidents had been governors, after all, and Palin was running for Vice President with a foreign-policy expert at the top of the ticket.) And while Palin seemed out of her depth in several television interviews, she was extraordinarily effective on the stump, was a quick study, and proved to be at least an even match for Joe Biden, a six-term senator, in the vice-presidential debate. Yet, for all these defenses, there could be no denying Palin's real deficiencies. Nonetheless, Palin was embraced practically without reservation in many conservative circles. The very heat of the Left's campaign against her made her all the more a darling of the Right. She became the 2008 poster child for the longstanding conservative grudge against the mainstream media. And, of course, having warmly accepted her unborn child with Down syndrome and having supported and encouraged her teenage daughter's decision to bring to term an unplanned pregnancy and to marry the baby's father, Palin instantly became an icon of the pro-life cause. It seemed to matter not a whit that Palin had never taken any action on abortion in her time as governor, and rarely had much to say on the subject. Indeed, even as she campaigned before captivated audiences, drawing tens of thousands of proud conservatives to rallies in a display of rock-star popularity no vice-presidential candidate had ever earned, Palin barely spoke about abortion or social issues. Palin did not merit her instantaneous conversion into the Joan of Arc of the American Right, just as she did not deserve the opprobrium that was heaped upon her by the Left. So why did it happen? What was the Palin episode really about? The answer has much to do with the age-old tension between populism and elitism in our public life, which is to say, between the notion that we are best governed by the views, needs, and interests of the many and the conviction that power can only be managed wisely by a select few. _____________ In American politics, the distinction between populism and elitism is further subdivided into cultural and economic populism and elitism. And for at least the last forty years, the two parties have broken down distinctly along this double axis. The Republican party has been the party of cultural populism and economic elitism, and the Democrats have been the party of cultural elitism and economic populism. Republicans tend to identify with the traditional values, unabashedly patriotic, anti-cosmopolitan, non-nuanced Joe Sixpack, even as they pursue an economic policy that aims at elite investor-driven growth. Democrats identify with the mistreated, underpaid, overworked, crushed-by-the-corporation "people against the powerful," but tend to look down on those people's religion, education, and way of life. Republicans tend to believe the dynamism of the market is for the best but that cultural change can be dangerously disruptive; Democrats tend to believe dynamic social change stretches the boundaries of inclusion for the better but that economic dynamism is often ruinous and unjust. Both economic and cultural populism are politically potent, but in America, unlike in Europe, cultural populism has always been much more powerful. Americans do not resent the success of others, but they do resent arrogance, and especially intellectual arrogance. Even the poor in our country tend to be moved more by cultural than by economic appeals. It was this sense, this feeling, that Sarah Palin channeled so effectively. Her appearance on the scene unleashed populist energies that McCain had not tapped, and she both fed them and fed off them. She spent the bulk of her time at Republican rallies assailing the cultural radicalism of Barack Obama and his latte-sipping followers, who, she occasionally suggested, were not part of the "the real America" she saw in the adoring throngs standing before her. Palin channeled these cultural energies more by what she was than by what she said or did, which contributed mightily to the odd disjunction between her professional resume and her campaign presence and impact. _____________ Palin's cultural populism put her at odds with the foe that did her the most serious damage: the nation's intellectual elite, whose initial suspicion of her deepened into outright loathing as the campaign progressed. Her inability in interviews to offer coherent answers about the Bush Doctrine, regulatory reform, and the Supreme Court's case history, together with her unexceptional academic record and the fact that she had spent almost no time abroad, were offered as evidence that Palin represented a dangerous strain of anti-intellectualism on the Right. She was, the Left-leaning Christopher Hitchens insisted, "a religious fanatic and a proud, boastful ignoramus." The Right-leaning David Brooks called Palin "a fatal cancer to the Republican party" because her inclination "is not only to scorn liberal ideas but to scorn ideas entirely." Palin never actually boasted of ignorance or explicitly scorned learning or ideas. Rather, the implicit charge was that Palin's failure to speak the language and to share the common points of reference of the educated upper tier of American society essentially rendered her unfit for high office. This form of intellectual elitism is actually fairly new in America, though it has been a dominant feature of European society since World War II. It is not as exclusive or as anti-democratic as cultural elitism is in other countries, because entry to the American intellectual elite is, in principle, open to all who pursue it. And pursuing it is not as difficult as it once was, at least for the middle class. Indeed, most of this elite's prominent members hail from middle-class origins and not from traditional bastions of American privilege and wealth. They can speak of growing up in Scranton, even as they raise their noses at dirty coal and hunting season. Nor is membership in the intellectual upper class determined by diplomas hanging on the wall. Palin could have gained entrance easily, despite the fact that she holds a mere degree in journalism from the University of Idaho. Although the intellectual elite is deeply shaped by our leading institutions of higher learning, belonging to it is more the result of shared assumptions and attitudes. It is more cultural than academic, more NPR than PhD. In Washington, many politicians who have not risen through the best of universities work hard for years to master the language and the suppositions of this upper tier, and to live carefully within the bounds prescribed by its view of the world. Applied to politics, the worldview of the intellectual elite begins from an unstated assumption that governing is fundamentally an exercise of the mind: an application of the proper mix of theory, expertise, and intellectual distance that calls for knowledge and verbal fluency more than for prudence born of life's hard lessons. Sarah Palin embodied a very different notion of politics, in which sound instincts and valuable life experiences are considered sources of knowledge at least the equal of book learning. She is the product of an America in which explicit displays of pride in intellect are considered unseemly, and where physical prowess and moral constancy are given a higher place than intellectual achievement. She was in the habit of stressing these faculties instead?a habit that struck many in Washington as brutishness. This is why Palin was seen as anti-intellectual when, properly speaking, she was simply non-intellectual. What she lacked was not intelligence?she is, clearly, highly intelligent?but rather the particular set of assumptions, references, and attitudes inculcated by America's top twenty universities and transmitted by the nation's elite cultural organs. Many of those (including especially those on the Right) who reacted badly to Palin on intellectual grounds understand themselves to be advancing the interests of lower-middle-class families similar to Palin's own family and to many of those in attendance at her rallies who greeted her arrival on the scene as a kind of deliverance. But it is hard to escape the conclusion that while these members of the intellectual elite want the government to serve the interests of such people first and foremost, they do not want those people to hold the levers of power. They see lower-middle-class populists like Palin and their supporters as profoundly ill-suited for governance, because they lack the accoutrements required for its employment?especially in foreign policy, which, even more than domestic affairs, is thought to be an intellectual exercise. It is for this reason that Barack Obama, who actually has far less experience in executive governance than Palin, was not dismissed as unprepared for the presidency. Palin may have been elected governor of Alaska, but his peers in Cambridge had elected Obama editor of the Harvard Law Review. He is thoroughly fluent in the parlance of the college town, and in the eyes of the new American elite, Washington is the ultimate college town. _____________ The reaction of the intellectual elite to Sarah Palin was far more provincial than Palin herself ever has been, and those who reacted so viscerally against her evinced little or no appreciation for an essential premise of democracy: that practical wisdom matters at least as much as formal education, and that leadership can emerge from utterly unexpected places. The presumption that the only road to power passes through the Ivy League and its tributaries is neither democratic nor sensible, and is, moreover, a sharp and wrongheaded break from the American tradition of citizen governance. _____________ And yet one must acknowledge that Palin was a problematic candidate. Charismatic and thrilling though she was at first glance, and impressive and dogged though she was throughout her 66-day run, she ended up at the center of a political and cultural vacuum of her own creation. She began by opening up a huge space for herself, and then was unable to fill it. The sense of potential that accompanied Palin's introduction, and the feeling that she might really reverse the momentum of the campaign, were not illusory. For two weeks or so, the polls moved markedly in McCain's direction, as it seemed that his running mate was something genuinely new in American politics: a lower-middle-class woman who spoke the language of the country's ordinary voters and had a profound personal understanding of the hopes and worries of a vast swath of the public. She really did seize the attention of swing voters, as McCain's team had hoped she might. Her convention speech, her interviews, and her debate performance drew unprecedented audiences. But having finally gotten voters to listen, neither Palin nor McCain could think of anything to say to them. Palin's reformism, like McCain's, was essentially an attitude devoid of substance. Both Republican candidates told us they hated corruption and would cut excess and waste. But separately and together, they offered no overarching vision of America, no consistent view of the role of government, no clear description of what a free society should look like, and no coherent policy ideas that might actually address the concerns of American families and offer solutions to the serious problems of the moment. Palin's populism was not her weakness, but her strength. Her weakness was that she failed to tie her populism to anything deeper. A successful conservative reformism has to draw on cultural populism, but it has also to draw on a worldview, on ideas about society and government, and on a policy agenda. This would make it more intellectual, but not necessarily less populist. McCain's advisers were right about Palin: she was a mirror image of John McCain. She was not a visionary politician, or a programmatic politician, but an attitude politician with an appealing biography. In the end, she was no more able than McCain to offer a coherent rationale for his presidency. That was not her job, though; it was his. The striking thing about the last two months of the 2008 presidential race was not Palin's inability to turn things around decisively for McCain, but her success in giving McCain a lead for even a short while. She seized the imagination of the public in a way that scared the Left, and rightly so. It is not Palin's fault that McCain was incapable of harnessing the phenomenal response to his running mate to his own advantage. In the end, Palin had a modest impact on the race. About 60 percent of those interviewed in the exit polls said McCain's choice of Palin had been a factor in their vote. Of these, 56 percent voted for McCain while only 43 percent voted for Obama. In other words, she appears to have helped McCain more than she hurt him, but not by much, which is as it should be; we were voting for a President, after all. In the face of unprecedented attack, Palin succeeded where almost no vice-presidential candidate ever has before in winning sustained support for the ticket. This suggests Palin's potent combination of cultural populism and social conservatism might provide the roadmap a Republican politician will need in the future to make headway against the Democratic tide. But that roadmap will only take that Republican politician so far. The rest of the journey requires the articulation of a broader vision for American families, American prosperity and freedom, and American security; a vision of conservatism, not only a nimbus of populism. There is every reason to believe Palin will try to accomplish just this in a future national election. It may be, however, that other ambitious Republicans will be better suited to the task of perfecting the formula for electoral success she introduced last fall. Either way, the Palin moment shed a powerful light on the power, the potential, and the ultimate inadequacy of a conservatism grounded solely in cultural populism. It also exposed the vulnerability of the Left to a challenge to its most cherished claims?as the sole representative of the interests of the working class and the only legitimate path to political power for an ambitious woman. And, perhaps even more telling, it revealed the unfortunate and unattractive propensity of the American cultural elite to treat those who are not deemed part of the elect with condescension and contumely. About the Author Yuval Levin is a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and the author of Imagining the Future: Science and American Democracy (Encounter). Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor Let us know what you think! Send an email to editor at commentarymagazine.com Footnotes Commentary (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Feb 5 07:57:17 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 07:57:17 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Unattributed... Message-ID: <43D47B8AD3D447D48E60E4B6FD437748@YOURB88038198E> First thing is A.M., I read a post by brother Brad. Now was it a complete quote by Brad or collage of quotes? So can I attribute it to Brad Haslett? "You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." This is followed by another unattibuted to its source but at least it contained all the Url's to explain: Washington State Declares Sovereignty http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/House%20Joint%20Memorials/4009-State%20sovereignty.pdf Arizona http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hcr2024p.htm New Hampshire http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html Oklahoma http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=119309; Missouri http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/bills091/bills/HR212 .HTM O.K., attribute your source so we can see where the thought comes from... Ed K Addendum: Bill Gates: "If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today." -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/68ff24c3/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/68ff24c3/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00 From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 08:17:15 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:17:15 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] We taught those rich bastards a lesson! References: <400985d70902041741m64c21762qf38dc043a0ffe8ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7417D39AA4BA495796618B0B164F8CE8@D9X7C761> Brad, Forget the broom and the shovel. Dust off your a/c mechanic's knowledge. You're going to need it to stay in the air when they outsource the maintenance jobs to stay competitive at the company. The following quote sums the situation up best "The media and some politicians have cast general aviation as a wasteful extravagance instead of a critical business tool and the source of millions of American jobs." Wonder of wonders, the NYT is cited to back up this position! Get the V-Tail ready to transport "special cargo" - you never know, you might need to shake an agent off your tail. Can a Bo execute a Revenuer's Turn? Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:41 PM More bad economic news after a re-visit to this wisdom - "You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." ------------------------------ Tuesday, February 3, 2009 An official with Hawker Beechcraft said today the company will cut 2,300 jobs. The cuts will take place before the end of 2009. Hawker Beechcraft operates plants in Wichita and Salina. The company has 9,800 workers worldwide. The cuts are equal to roughly 25% of Hawker's workforce. Employees are being notified of the news today. A company official said some of the employees could learn of their layoffs as early as Friday. "The bottom line is that we must be prepared to do whatever is required to make certain that we successfully emerge from the downturn and are able to provide future generations with the kinds of jobs that we and previous generations have enjoyed", said Hawker Beechcraft CEO Jim Schuster in a letter to employees. The entire letter is included below. The cuts announced today come nearly three months after Hawker Beechcraft laid off 490 workers. # Letter to Hawker Beechcraft Workers February 3, 2009 Dear Fellow Hawker Beechcraft Employee: In early January, I announced the regrettable but necessary need for Hawker Beechcraft to further reduce its production and workforce levels due to the increasing severity of the global economic decline. I also promised to keep you updated as we completed changes to our business plans. In the short time since my last communication, we have experienced increased erosion across our industry and the global economy. In addition to declining orders and deliveries, we are facing a host of new challenges: ? The government's stimulus package has failed to sufficiently loosen credit markets, which are absolutely vital to the success of HBC and our industry ? Orders from previously high-volume business segments - the fractional market in particular - have slowed considerably ? The media and some politicians have cast general aviation as a wasteful extravagance instead of a critical business tool and the source of millions of American jobs. A recent editorial in the New York Times pointed out just how inaccurate and potentially damaging this portrayal is: - More than one million Americans are employed in manufacturing, managing and maintaining business aircraft - American aircraft manufacturers dominate the industry globally with half of all U.S. production exported to overseas markets - Business aviation contributes $150 billion annually to the U.S. economy The increased challenges that lay before us demand an extraordinary response from our company and the U.S. aviation industry to ensure our short-term stability and long-term success. Therefore, we at HBC have conducted a sweeping evaluation of our business plans and implemented a wide range of measures to dramatically reduce our costs. As a consequence of these actions, we will be forced to reduce our workforce by approximately 2,300 employees before the end of the year. The majority will be notified by their management on February 6th. This is an extremely painful step for the HBC family and community, but one that is absolutely necessary. While I wish I could commit to you that this will be our final action, I cannot do so at this time given the extreme volatility in the marketplace. The bottom line is that we must be prepared to do whatever is required to make certain that we successfully emerge from the downturn and are able to provide future generations with the kinds of jobs that we and previous generations have enjoyed. We are undoubtedly facing one of the most severe tests in our company's history. However, I want to make clear that I firmly believe HBC, above all others, has the right brands, the right products and most of all, the right people to see us through to a brighter future. Sincerely, Jim Schuster Chairman and CEO _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 08:19:58 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:19:58 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Craigslist Car Ad References: <400985d70902050313s1e416e3cr9bbcb3038a4b9ac9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E412D0DE11A46EC9E048CBECD7B39C3@D9X7C761> Hey! That's what I drive! Mine's a 6 speed stick, of course (automatics are just for ladies.) It does tow an R22 very well. Great truck. 20mpg town, 24 highway, 26 w/tailwind. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:13 AM Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Craigslist Car Ad > Maybe Detroit needs a new advertising angle. This is an actual used > car ad from Craigslist. > > ----------------- > > NINJA HAULER: 2005 Nissan Xterra - $12900 (Ronan / Lake County ) > ________________________________________ > Reply to: sale-926508578 at craigslist.org [?] > Date: 2008-11-19, 10:04PM MST > OK, let me start off by saying this Xterra is only available for > purchase by the manliest of men (or women) . My friend, if it was > possible for a vehicle to sprout chest hair and a five o'clock shadow, > this Nissan would look like Tom Selleck . It is just that manly . > > It was never intended to drive to the mall so you can pick up that > adorable shirt at Abercrombie & Fitch that you had your eye on . It > wasn't meant to transport you to yoga class or Linens & Things . No, > that's what your Prius is for . If that's the kind of car you're > looking for, then just do us all a favor and stop reading right now . > I mean it . Just stop . > > This car was engineered by 3rd degree ninja super-warriors in the > highest mountains of Japan to serve the needs of the man that cheats > death on a daily basis . They didn't even consider superfluous nancy > boy amenities like navigation systems (real men don't get lost), > heated leather seats (a real man doesn't let anything warm his butt), > or On Star (real men don't even know what On Star is) . > > No, this brute comes with the things us testosterone-fueled super > action junkies need . It has a 265 HP engine to outrun the cops . It's > got special blood/gore resistant upholstery . It even has a first-aid > kit in the back . You know what the first aid kit has in it? A pint of > whiskey, a stitch-your-own-wound kit and a hunk of leather to bite > down on when you're operating on yourself . The Xterra also has an > automatic transmission so if you're being chased by Libyan terrorists, > you'll still be able to shoot your machine gun out the window and > drive at the same time . It's saved my bacon more than once . > > It has room for you and the four hotties you picked up on the way to > the gym to blast your pecs and hammer your glutes . There's a tow > hitch to pull your 50 caliber anti-Taliban, self cooling machine gun . > I also just put in a new windshield to replace the one that got shot > out by The Man . > > My price on this bad boy is an incredibly low $12,900, but I'll > entertain reasonable offers . And by reasonable, I mean don't walk up > and tell me you'll give me $5,000 for it . That's liable to earn you a > Burmese-roundhouse-sphincter-kick with a follow up three fingered > eye-jab . Would it hurt? Hell yeah . Let's just say you won't be the > prettiest guy at the Coldplay concert anymore . > > There's only 69,000 miles on this four-wheeled hellcat from Planet > Kickass . Trust me, it will outlive you and the offspring that will > carry your name . It will live on as a monument to your machismo . > > Now, go look in the mirror and tell me what you see . If it's a > rugged, no holds barred, super brute he-man macho Chuck Norris stunt > double, then contact me . I might be out hang-gliding or BASE jumping > or just chilling with my ladies, but I'll get back to you . And when I > do, we'll talk about a price over a nice glass of Schmidt while we > listen to Johnny Cash . > > To sweeten the deal a little, I'm throwing in this pair of MC Hammer > pants for the man with rippling quads that can't fit into regular > pants . Yeah, you heard me . FREE MC Hammer pants . > > Rock on . > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 08:34:53 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:34:53 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] IRS & Tax code References: <5DC8BE3C7DC147E0A7946F19EBC0AB0B@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <5A122753F10F4F52BA62D2D6DA46303B@D9X7C761> Ed, Last night, Jay Leno of the Tonight Show suggested that Obama simply announce appointments for all of the tax scofflaws in DC and we won't need a bailout or a tax increase. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: tootle To: Swift Water Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] IRS & Tax code Ho, ho, ho, see: http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/joseph-onorati/tax-code-too-complicated-for-obamas-team Ed K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/97c34102/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Thu Feb 5 08:44:08 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:44:08 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Craigslist Car Ad In-Reply-To: <400985d70902050313s1e416e3cr9bbcb3038a4b9ac9@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902050313s1e416e3cr9bbcb3038a4b9ac9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498AED28.5030408@effros.com> Love it! Keep the cards and letters coming. B. Brad Haslett wrote: > Maybe Detroit needs a new advertising angle. This is an actual used > car ad from Craigslist. > > ----------------- > > NINJA HAULER: 2005 Nissan Xterra - $12900 (Ronan / Lake County ) > ________________________________________ > Reply to: sale-926508578 at craigslist.org [?] > Date: 2008-11-19, 10:04PM MST > OK, let me start off by saying this Xterra is only available for > purchase by the manliest of men (or women) . My friend, if it was > possible for a vehicle to sprout chest hair and a five o'clock shadow, > this Nissan would look like Tom Selleck . It is just that manly . > > It was never intended to drive to the mall so you can pick up that > adorable shirt at Abercrombie & Fitch that you had your eye on . It > wasn't meant to transport you to yoga class or Linens & Things . No, > that's what your Prius is for . If that's the kind of car you're > looking for, then just do us all a favor and stop reading right now . > I mean it . Just stop . > > This car was engineered by 3rd degree ninja super-warriors in the > highest mountains of Japan to serve the needs of the man that cheats > death on a daily basis . They didn't even consider superfluous nancy > boy amenities like navigation systems (real men don't get lost), > heated leather seats (a real man doesn't let anything warm his butt), > or On Star (real men don't even know what On Star is) . > > No, this brute comes with the things us testosterone-fueled super > action junkies need . It has a 265 HP engine to outrun the cops . It's > got special blood/gore resistant upholstery . It even has a first-aid > kit in the back . You know what the first aid kit has in it? A pint of > whiskey, a stitch-your-own-wound kit and a hunk of leather to bite > down on when you're operating on yourself . The Xterra also has an > automatic transmission so if you're being chased by Libyan terrorists, > you'll still be able to shoot your machine gun out the window and > drive at the same time . It's saved my bacon more than once . > > It has room for you and the four hotties you picked up on the way to > the gym to blast your pecs and hammer your glutes . There's a tow > hitch to pull your 50 caliber anti-Taliban, self cooling machine gun . > I also just put in a new windshield to replace the one that got shot > out by The Man . > > My price on this bad boy is an incredibly low $12,900, but I'll > entertain reasonable offers . And by reasonable, I mean don't walk up > and tell me you'll give me $5,000 for it . That's liable to earn you a > Burmese-roundhouse-sphincter-kick with a follow up three fingered > eye-jab . Would it hurt? Hell yeah . Let's just say you won't be the > prettiest guy at the Coldplay concert anymore . > > There's only 69,000 miles on this four-wheeled hellcat from Planet > Kickass . Trust me, it will outlive you and the offspring that will > carry your name . It will live on as a monument to your machismo . > > Now, go look in the mirror and tell me what you see . If it's a > rugged, no holds barred, super brute he-man macho Chuck Norris stunt > double, then contact me . I might be out hang-gliding or BASE jumping > or just chilling with my ladies, but I'll get back to you . And when I > do, we'll talk about a price over a nice glass of Schmidt while we > listen to Johnny Cash . > > To sweeten the deal a little, I'm throwing in this pair of MC Hammer > pants for the man with rippling quads that can't fit into regular > pants . Yeah, you heard me . FREE MC Hammer pants . > > Rock on . > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 08:47:13 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:47:13 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Craigslist Car Ad References: <400985d70902050313s1e416e3cr9bbcb3038a4b9ac9@mail.gmail.com> <498AED28.5030408@effros.com> Message-ID: <82033867743F4091BCC8EF8FBE68ABEB@D9X7C761> Just build it and they will come! From: "Bill Effros" Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:44 AM > Love it! > > Keep the cards and letters coming. > > B. > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Maybe Detroit needs a new advertising angle. This is an actual used >> car ad from Craigslist. >> >> ----------------- >> >> NINJA HAULER: 2005 Nissan Xterra - $12900 (Ronan / Lake County ) >> ________________________________________ >> Reply to: sale-926508578 at craigslist.org [?] >> Date: 2008-11-19, 10:04PM MST >> OK, let me start off by saying this Xterra is only available for >> purchase by the manliest of men (or women) . My friend, if it was >> possible for a vehicle to sprout chest hair and a five o'clock shadow, >> this Nissan would look like Tom Selleck . It is just that manly . >> >> It was never intended to drive to the mall so you can pick up that >> adorable shirt at Abercrombie & Fitch that you had your eye on . It >> wasn't meant to transport you to yoga class or Linens & Things . No, >> that's what your Prius is for . If that's the kind of car you're >> looking for, then just do us all a favor and stop reading right now . >> I mean it . Just stop . >> >> This car was engineered by 3rd degree ninja super-warriors in the >> highest mountains of Japan to serve the needs of the man that cheats >> death on a daily basis . They didn't even consider superfluous nancy >> boy amenities like navigation systems (real men don't get lost), >> heated leather seats (a real man doesn't let anything warm his butt), >> or On Star (real men don't even know what On Star is) . >> >> No, this brute comes with the things us testosterone-fueled super >> action junkies need . It has a 265 HP engine to outrun the cops . It's >> got special blood/gore resistant upholstery . It even has a first-aid >> kit in the back . You know what the first aid kit has in it? A pint of >> whiskey, a stitch-your-own-wound kit and a hunk of leather to bite >> down on when you're operating on yourself . The Xterra also has an >> automatic transmission so if you're being chased by Libyan terrorists, >> you'll still be able to shoot your machine gun out the window and >> drive at the same time . It's saved my bacon more than once . >> >> It has room for you and the four hotties you picked up on the way to >> the gym to blast your pecs and hammer your glutes . There's a tow >> hitch to pull your 50 caliber anti-Taliban, self cooling machine gun . >> I also just put in a new windshield to replace the one that got shot >> out by The Man . >> >> My price on this bad boy is an incredibly low $12,900, but I'll >> entertain reasonable offers . And by reasonable, I mean don't walk up >> and tell me you'll give me $5,000 for it . That's liable to earn you a >> Burmese-roundhouse-sphincter-kick with a follow up three fingered >> eye-jab . Would it hurt? Hell yeah . Let's just say you won't be the >> prettiest guy at the Coldplay concert anymore . >> >> There's only 69,000 miles on this four-wheeled hellcat from Planet >> Kickass . Trust me, it will outlive you and the offspring that will >> carry your name . It will live on as a monument to your machismo . >> >> Now, go look in the mirror and tell me what you see . If it's a >> rugged, no holds barred, super brute he-man macho Chuck Norris stunt >> double, then contact me . I might be out hang-gliding or BASE jumping >> or just chilling with my ladies, but I'll get back to you . And when I >> do, we'll talk about a price over a nice glass of Schmidt while we >> listen to Johnny Cash . >> >> To sweeten the deal a little, I'm throwing in this pair of MC Hammer >> pants for the man with rippling quads that can't fit into regular >> pants . Yeah, you heard me . FREE MC Hammer pants . >> >> Rock on . >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 08:32:30 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:32:30 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - It is worse than you think! References: <400985d70902040418g55e88339ib1ece1f56956c334@mail.gmail.com><49899C21.6010805@gmail.com><400985d70902040610s7b46e8edw59126888602e4d82@mail.gmail.com><380BB220EA4D426F9695A23F5E4B4A16@ebsoffice><400985d70902041528t2be8b9dwff1f99fbab2007b3@mail.gmail.com><1D20AE8560D2450889E1F613CA5C88A7@ebsoffice> <400985d70902041546w45ac61fdld9318df5ccbc93bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <540EA46FCF2D48DA90B2AF4BAC5138FD@D9X7C761> Brad, This is a great explanation of the meaning of $1T. When I first heard that the financial B/O would be $750B last summer, I figured that it would easily balloon to around a trillion, so, I thought about how much it would cost ME, as follows: Using a US population of 300,000,000 people and a bailout of $900 billion (easy math), the average "cost" to each citizen of the US would be $3,000. OK. Now, since only 100 million actually work to earn a living, the income producers would need to pony up $9,000 each. Accounting for unemployment, hardship, etc. I figure that I will wind up being responsible for more like $15K. Then one needs to account for interest on indebtedness and administrative oversight costs bringing my total out of pocket to $120K, over a ten year period. I think that a better deal would be if I just go out and buy a new GM gas guzzler and finance it for 5 years. By the time that I junk it, I will have provided the same economic stimulus. Oh, this seems to be what we have been doing for the last decade. Gee, I sure hope that Mr. O has a better idea. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:46 PM > Mike, > > Jesus! We're talking about a lot of money since the time of Jesus! > > http://tinyurl.com/ct6lwx > > I haven't had this much fun since college - "hell, I can't be broke, > I've still got checks left". > > Brad > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Michael D. Weisner > wrote: >> Brad, >> >> Forget the broom, you need a shovel when it's that deep. >> >> Mike >> >> >> From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:28 PM >>> Mike, >>> >>> My tax didn't change with the calculator. I know what that means. If >>> everyone else gets a "tax cut" and I don't pay anymore, the rest will >>> come from borrowed or printed money. Then someone will get the bright >>> idea to tax "the rich" to pay back the loans. That's pretty much the >>> idea from the get/go but you can't say that in public. It doesn't >>> matter, I'm switching professions anyway. Senator Dachle worked for a >>> law firm and made over 2 million in just a few years. He's not a >>> lawyer and neither am I. He must have been a custodian. Hell, I've >>> got lot's of experience with a broom. >>> >>> Do these people really think we're that stupid? Silly question, don't >>> bother to answer. >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Michael D. Weisner >>> wrote: >>>> Brad, >>>> >>>> Although I really like your version of Obama-Tax, you might like to >>>> check >>>> out the financial calculator "2009 Economic Stimulus Tax Comparison >>>> Calculator" at: >>>> http://www.yourmoneypage.com/campaign2008/form_1040.php >>>> >>>> With a family of four and 1 child tax eligible dependent and 1 in >>>> college, >>>> it appears that no tax is paid until income exceeds $57,000! Wow! I >>>> think >>>> that it needs to be re-tooled so that I can enter the tax that I would >>>> be >>>> willing to pay and then find out how much my '09 income should be. We >>>> used >>>> to joke that after April or May we were finally working for ourselves >>>> instead of our Uncle. Nowadays, I am afraid, folks will stop working >>>> once >>>> they have reached their tax goal for the year. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> From: "Brad Haslett" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:10 AM >>>>> Rik, >>>>> >>>>> Hey, this Hope and Change thing is working for me! I've been dreading >>>>> doing my taxes this year because I know I'm going to get hammered. >>>>> All of our equipment is fully depreciated, we have very little >>>>> interest expense left, and I sold a rental property for a capital >>>>> gain. But then I found out about the Obama-tax program instead of >>>>> Turbo-tax. Obama-tax asks you if you want to declare income and you >>>>> just check - NOPE - simple to use, easy to understand. If the IRS >>>>> audits you one just says, "I'd like the same treatment as the >>>>> Secretary of the Treasury". >>>>> >>>>> I'm starting to like these guys. >>>>> >>>>> Brad >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rik Sandberg >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Brad, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow, that's some tough math. But wait.... we already knew she wasn't >>>>>> the >>>>>> brightest bulb on the tree ..... didn't we?? >>>>>> >>>>>> Fits right in with the guy who thinks there's 57 states .... >>>>>> >>>>>> Rik >>>>>> >>>>>> "There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate >>>>>> preparation to cope with a statistical universe." ... Robert Heinlein >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>>>>> Wow! This is bad. First, I was worried about my job, now I find >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> I'll have to lose my job twice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/aru7tt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm guessing Nancy wasn't a math major. Theater? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brad >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From tootle at charter.net Thu Feb 5 10:08:14 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:08:14 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Ra, Ra Session Message-ID: <1D7A9AB198BC4B0A8E0C12F408185693@YOURB88038198E> If anybody has been in sales, sucessful sales organizations have sales training and motivation meetings (Ra, Ra Sessions). An example of a motivational session for freedom lovers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/344e1396/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/344e1396/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00 From bill at effros.com Thu Feb 5 10:42:37 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:42:37 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Ra, Ra Session In-Reply-To: <1D7A9AB198BC4B0A8E0C12F408185693@YOURB88038198E> References: <1D7A9AB198BC4B0A8E0C12F408185693@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <498B08ED.2000201@effros.com> Great clip Ed! Thanks, B. tootle wrote: > If anybody has been in sales, sucessful sales organizations have sales > training and motivation meetings (Ra, Ra Sessions). > > An example of a motivational session for freedom lovers: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A > > Ed K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/8d6e676e/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:04:22 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:04:22 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Ra, Ra Session In-Reply-To: <1D7A9AB198BC4B0A8E0C12F408185693@YOURB88038198E> References: <1D7A9AB198BC4B0A8E0C12F408185693@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <498B0E06.8030502@gmail.com> Ed, I'm no expert on Friedman, but he's right on the money there. Excellent find, Ed. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA tootle wrote: > If anybody has been in sales, sucessful sales organizations have sales > training and motivation meetings (Ra, Ra Sessions). > > An example of a motivational session for freedom lovers: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A > > Ed K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 13:11:06 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:11:06 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Unattributed... In-Reply-To: <43D47B8AD3D447D48E60E4B6FD437748@YOURB88038198E> References: <43D47B8AD3D447D48E60E4B6FD437748@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d70902051011k3ed291dby216de7fc765a5d77@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Those are the words of Rev. William J. H. Boetcker. Reagan used them once in a speech and attributed them to Lincoln, and so the myth continues. I stopped by my old 'watering hole' yesterday because I was in the area of the University of Memphis and wanted to visit with the owner. He used to be a buyer for Dillards and flew around the country on Dillards fleet of corporate airplanes (which got them home that night and in the office the next morning). Barney Frank, et al, have declared war on corporate aviation. What does Barney, Obama, and friends know about being economically productive? Their class warfare is a direct attack on a million jobs. The pendulum has indeed swung, which is the whole point of having two or more parties, but it's swinging too far, too fast, and is being pushed by idiots. For the last three days I've had the pleasure of working with two sheet metal craftsmen on my old airplane. One is from Columbia and the other from Brazil (and yes, they are legal citizens). Here's their website - aerofix.net. I was lucky enough to catch them between big jobs and they got more done in three days than I could in three months. What made our country great is that people of all faiths, ethnicity, and economic background could use their talent and their motivation to find their own version of the "American Dream". Now we're being told that only the government can provide supply happiness to the downtrodden. Most of the immigrants I know (and I know a lot) left their old countries precisely because of those types of policies. We are at the tipping point! God Bless the USA. Brad On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:57 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > First thing is A.M., I read a post by brother Brad. Now was it a complete > quote by Brad or collage of quotes? So can I attribute it to Brad Haslett? > > "You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. > You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. > You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. > You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. > You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. > You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. > You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. > You cannot establish security on borrowed money. > You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative > and independence. > You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could > and should do for themselves." > > This is followed by another unattibuted to its source but at least it > contained all the Url's to explain: > > > Washington State Declares Sovereignty > http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/House%20Joint%20Memorials/4009-State%20sovereignty.pdf > > Arizona > http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hcr2024p.htm > > New Hampshire > http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html > > Oklahoma > http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=119309; > > Missouri > http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/bills091/bills/HR212 .HTM > > O.K., attribute your source so we can see where the thought comes from... > > Ed K > > Addendum: > > Bill Gates: "If people had understood how patents would be granted when most > of today's ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry > would be at a complete standstill today." > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 02/04/09 > 08:24:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 13:24:42 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:24:42 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Unattributed... References: <43D47B8AD3D447D48E60E4B6FD437748@YOURB88038198E> <400985d70902051011k3ed291dby216de7fc765a5d77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9B4848864A4E4F4085DC6217FAC9D9B7@ebsoffice> Brad, The attack has been gaining momentum for years but it went over the top when a few self-serving CEOs flew into DC on their aluminum winged chariots as gods asking for handouts. That image will be very hard to reverse. It will take a decade or more, depending on how long the depression (or severe recession, if you must) lasts. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:11 PM {clip} > He used to be a buyer for Dillards and flew around the country on > Dillards fleet of corporate airplanes (which got them home that night > and in the office the next morning). Barney Frank, et al, have > declared war on corporate aviation. What does Barney, Obama, and > friends know about being economically productive? Their class warfare > is a direct attack on a million jobs. The pendulum has indeed swung, > which is the whole point of having two or more parties, but it's > swinging too far, too fast, and is being pushed by idiots. {clip} From sanderico1 at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 13:39:50 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:39:50 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] politics: This is attributed... In-Reply-To: <9B4848864A4E4F4085DC6217FAC9D9B7@ebsoffice> References: <43D47B8AD3D447D48E60E4B6FD437748@YOURB88038198E> <400985d70902051011k3ed291dby216de7fc765a5d77@mail.gmail.com> <9B4848864A4E4F4085DC6217FAC9D9B7@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <498B3276.6070908@gmail.com> Ed, Brad, Michael, Here's something I read this morning that I thought was worth passing along in light of all the hubub over CEO, etc. compensation and the death (as some would have it) of capitalism. Here's a link to the whole site. It comes out every morning. http://www.agorafinancial.com/afrude/ *Demerit-Based Pay* By Eric J. Fry Russia, according to Winston Churchill, was a "riddle wrapped inside an enigma." Wall Street's version of capitalism, according to us, is a fraud wrapped inside a delusion. The fraud is that merit-based pay is always meritorious; the delusion is that capitalist enterprises are always capitalistic. When you combine these two deceptions, you find lots and lots of people defending the right of incompetent corporate executives to receive multi-million-dollar paychecks?even after the companies that employ these executives receive multi-billion bailouts from the U.S. government. Sadly, mass deceptions tend to maintain their grip on the public imagination for destructively long periods of time. The executive compensation deception is no different. During the many years that stocks priced trudged from their 1982 lows to their 2007 highs, the merit-based pay deception advanced from benign heresy to malignant gospel. A series of warped deductions about cause and effect led America to embrace one of the greatest financial frauds of all time. Here's how the rationale for merit-based pay mutated over time: A CEO who increases shareholder value is a good CEO; and if a company's shareholder value is increasing, its share price will also increase over time. And if a company's share price increases over time, shareholder wealth increases. Therefore, to the extent that a company's share price is rising, the company's CEO is a good CEO who deserves hefty compensation. Unfortunately, dear investor, "rising share price" is not a synonym for "shareholder value"?and every merit-based CEO in America understands the difference. Indeed, some of America's worst CEOs deliberately and methodically erode shareholder value, solely for the sake of boosting their company's share price and ? oh by the way ? their own "merit-based pay." One of the most popular tactics is called the "option grant," whereby a company dispenses massive amounts of stock options to its executive team, in addition to traditional cash compensation. The stated rationale for these option grants (often stated by a grant recipient) is to incentive executives to focus their efforts on activities that will produce a rising share price. But of course, most executives exercise about as much influence over their companies' share prices as a starfish over a tsunami. By contrast, the option grant compensation mechanism itself CAN influence the share price. Back in the go-go days of the dot.com era, lots of tech companies doled out lots of stock options. And since these option grants did not show up in the income statements as a compensation expense, the companies that dispensed the grants were able to report much higher earnings than if they had paid equivalent amounts of compensation in cash. This practice provided no small benefit in the dot.com days, when "beating the estimate by a penny" could goose a stock by 30% or 40% in a single day. As long as share prices were rising, no one cared that the expense of option grants landed squarely on the backs of common shareholders as a reduction of "shareholder equity." But they should have. To satisfy the option grants, companies issued new shares. If the share count goes up without any underlying change to the balance sheet, each share of stock outstanding represents a smaller piece of the company and, therefore, is worth less than before. Favored tactic #2: The share buy-back. This tactic is a very simple, and effective, executive-enrichment tool, especially when used in concert with tactic #1, the option grant. The share buy-back is exactly that, buying shares of the company with cash from the corporate treasury. Not all buy-backs are bad, of course, but many are. A good buy-back uses corporate cash to buy the DEPRESSED shares of a company ? e.g., buying one dollar of assets for fifty cents. A bad buyback does the opposite. But for some corporate insiders, nothing feels quite as good as a buyback that is bad?very, very bad. An option-laden executive loves the buyback for two reasons: 1) It contributes some marginal buying interest to the marketplace, thereby helping to boost the share price and; 2) It reduces the number of shares outstanding, which helps to produce a more flattering earnings per share result. Are you confused yet? You should be; Tactic #1 increases the share count. Tactic #2 DECREASES the share count. The sinister nature of coordinated option grants and share buybacks becomes painfully clear when you realize that many, many American companies simply churn the number of share outstanding without producing a net benefit for the common shareholder. The churning activity does, however, produce an enormous benefit for company insiders. Many, many other tactics ? both legally fraudulent and overtly criminal ? can combine to produce simultaneous wealth creation for management and wealth destruction for shareholders. Few played this game with greater audacity than the federally coddled GSEs, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In July 2003, my former colleagues at Apogee Research, led by a brilliant forensic accountant named Robert Tracy, observed, "For the two years ended December 2002, Fannie [Mae] lost $11.8 billion of asset value that was never reflected in its GAAP [accounting] calculations, while simultaneously reporting GAAP earnings of $10.5 billion. Had the lost asset value been included in Fannie's GAAP net income, it would have booked losses for both years." Obviously, the difference between a profit of $10.5 billion and a loss of more than $1 billion during the years 2001 and 2002 would have seemed material to some investors ? material enough to have kicked Fannie's share price into cellar. The list of abuses committed in the name of merit-based pay does not end with option grants and buybacks. Indeed, many of the merit-based compensation schemes do not erode shareholder value methodically. Instead, they place shareholder capital in extreme peril, solely for the sake of a rising share price. Let's call this the "Wall Street Model." The main advantage of this tactic, from a CEO's standpoint, is that criminal intent is much harder to prove. A CEO who causes his company to leverage up the balance sheet 45-to-1 and uses the leverage to buy risky securities that no pawnbroker would buy at any price can say, "Hey, it seemed like a good idea. Everyone else was doing it. Besides, it wasn't even our fault. It was those damn short sellers that caused the problem!" And if you believe that, then you might also believe that nominally capitalist enterprises always behave capitalistically. But they don't. And neither does the American capitalistic system. The "capitalists" on Wall Street probably imagine that their DNA descends from the likes of Henry Ford, Sam Walton, Bill Gates or some other legendary entrepreneur. But under the microscope of honest examination, Wall Street's DNA appears almost identical to that of most DMV workers. Like their DMV counterparts, Wall Street's chieftains punch a clock each day, devise ways to work as little as possible, provide as little assistance to clients as possible, and periodically tabulate the value of their entitlements. Stated simply, CEOs are not entrepreneurs. They are stewards of the owners' capital. A good steward deserves a good reward?after the fact. A bad steward deserves a pink slip, and two weeks severance. A very bad steward deserves litigation. But American capitalism has strayed very far from these simple precepts of appropriate compensation. Miserable CEOs make spectacular amounts of money. And recent attempts to bring compensation back into line with actual merit must face an indignant chorus of apologists who complain that government-mandated pay is anti-capitalist and interferes with the free market. Really? Don't trillion-dollar bailouts interfere just a little bit with the free market? Wall Street's version of "capitalism" seems to distinguish between different parts of a corporate balance sheet. Assets and revenues belong to the "capitalists;" liabilities and expenses belong to the government. I've got a four-letter word for that: Balderdash. A capitalist takes responsibility for every part of the balance sheet and a truly free market treats assets and liabilities with ambivalence. A free market does not care if the assets belong to a sinner or a saint, or if the liabilities belong to high school dropout or a PhD in Economics. And a free market doesn't give a hoot if the victims of financial mismanagement belong to a country club or a bowling league. So if the truly free markets don't care about these considerations, why should anyone else? To conclude, we would like to issue both a word of caution and an apology. First, the word of caution: The fact that obscenely large executive compensation packages can still claim legions of defenders and apologists suggests that the financial crisis has not yet run its course. When merit-based compensation features more prison bracelets than option grants, the crisis may be drawing to a close?but not until then. And now for our apology: We admit that comparing a Wall Street CEO to a DMV employee is neither exactly fair, nor exactly kind. We apologize, therefore, to all employees of the DMV. I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > The attack has been gaining momentum for years but it went over the top when > a few self-serving CEOs flew into DC on their aluminum winged chariots as > gods asking for handouts. That image will be very hard to reverse. It will > take a decade or more, depending on how long the depression (or severe > recession, if you must) lasts. > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:11 PM > {clip} > >> He used to be a buyer for Dillards and flew around the country on >> Dillards fleet of corporate airplanes (which got them home that night >> and in the office the next morning). Barney Frank, et al, have >> declared war on corporate aviation. What does Barney, Obama, and >> friends know about being economically productive? Their class warfare >> is a direct attack on a million jobs. The pendulum has indeed swung, >> which is the whole point of having two or more parties, but it's >> swinging too far, too fast, and is being pushed by idiots. >> > {clip} > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 13:40:57 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:40:57 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Unattributed... In-Reply-To: <9B4848864A4E4F4085DC6217FAC9D9B7@ebsoffice> References: <43D47B8AD3D447D48E60E4B6FD437748@YOURB88038198E> <400985d70902051011k3ed291dby216de7fc765a5d77@mail.gmail.com> <9B4848864A4E4F4085DC6217FAC9D9B7@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <400985d70902051040v747c377fk6d24449ab9999995@mail.gmail.com> Mike, You are correct. They are self serving CEO's and they deserved to go bankrupt two decades ago. The job before the last job before the job I have now was flying a Cessna Citation Jet for an owner who could marginally afford the jet. I'd get a call at 2AM for an ASAP departure to Arkadelphia, Arkansas to pick-up 15 pieces of 'rubber dog shit' and fly it to Detroit. Two weeks later, I'd get the same call for 15 pieces of 'plastic dog shit' that had to be in Detroit or the whole plant would shut down. Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. will send one man in a truck to Tupelo, Mississippi to retrieve the "critical component" three days in advance of the line shutting down. Recessions are not all bad, unless the government goes into a central planning mode. My prediction is that China will sit this one out. If things get really tough there they'll just collect their debt from the US and sit it out. We do have the money to keep making payments, don't we? Brad On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > The attack has been gaining momentum for years but it went over the top when > a few self-serving CEOs flew into DC on their aluminum winged chariots as > gods asking for handouts. That image will be very hard to reverse. It will > take a decade or more, depending on how long the depression (or severe > recession, if you must) lasts. > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:11 PM > {clip} >> He used to be a buyer for Dillards and flew around the country on >> Dillards fleet of corporate airplanes (which got them home that night >> and in the office the next morning). Barney Frank, et al, have >> declared war on corporate aviation. What does Barney, Obama, and >> friends know about being economically productive? Their class warfare >> is a direct attack on a million jobs. The pendulum has indeed swung, >> which is the whole point of having two or more parties, but it's >> swinging too far, too fast, and is being pushed by idiots. > {clip} > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 14:00:25 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:00:25 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] politics: This is attributed... References: <43D47B8AD3D447D48E60E4B6FD437748@YOURB88038198E> <400985d70902051011k3ed291dby216de7fc765a5d77@mail.gmail.com><9B4848864A4E4F4085DC6217FAC9D9B7@ebsoffice> <498B3276.6070908@gmail.com> Message-ID: <623EF69C17A14AAEA055F1454129768D@ebsoffice> Rik, Interesting reading ... I propose that we solve the issue of overcompensated CEOs and the loss of corporate jet transportation industry jobs. We will take a few of the unproductive CEOs with their "Golden Parachutes" up in the corp jets over unpopulated areas and see if a chute made of gold is better than one made of nylon. After a few hit the ground, we may just see a turnaround in corporate politics. I have no problem with highly paid talent, just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for. Mike From: "Rik Sandberg" Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:39 PM Ed, Brad, Michael, Here's something I read this morning that I thought was worth passing along in light of all the hubub over CEO, etc. compensation and the death (as some would have it) of capitalism. Here's a link to the whole site. It comes out every morning. http://www.agorafinancial.com/afrude/ *Demerit-Based Pay* By Eric J. Fry Russia, according to Winston Churchill, was a "riddle wrapped inside an enigma." Wall Street's version of capitalism, according to us, is a fraud wrapped inside a delusion. The fraud is that merit-based pay is always meritorious; the delusion is that capitalist enterprises are always capitalistic. When you combine these two deceptions, you find lots and lots of people defending the right of incompetent corporate executives to receive multi-million-dollar paychecks?even after the companies that employ these executives receive multi-billion bailouts from the U.S. government. Sadly, mass deceptions tend to maintain their grip on the public imagination for destructively long periods of time. The executive compensation deception is no different. During the many years that stocks priced trudged from their 1982 lows to their 2007 highs, the merit-based pay deception advanced from benign heresy to malignant gospel. A series of warped deductions about cause and effect led America to embrace one of the greatest financial frauds of all time. Here's how the rationale for merit-based pay mutated over time: A CEO who increases shareholder value is a good CEO; and if a company's shareholder value is increasing, its share price will also increase over time. And if a company's share price increases over time, shareholder wealth increases. Therefore, to the extent that a company's share price is rising, the company's CEO is a good CEO who deserves hefty compensation. Unfortunately, dear investor, "rising share price" is not a synonym for "shareholder value"?and every merit-based CEO in America understands the difference. Indeed, some of America's worst CEOs deliberately and methodically erode shareholder value, solely for the sake of boosting their company's share price and ? oh by the way ? their own "merit-based pay." One of the most popular tactics is called the "option grant," whereby a company dispenses massive amounts of stock options to its executive team, in addition to traditional cash compensation. The stated rationale for these option grants (often stated by a grant recipient) is to incentive executives to focus their efforts on activities that will produce a rising share price. But of course, most executives exercise about as much influence over their companies' share prices as a starfish over a tsunami. By contrast, the option grant compensation mechanism itself CAN influence the share price. Back in the go-go days of the dot.com era, lots of tech companies doled out lots of stock options. And since these option grants did not show up in the income statements as a compensation expense, the companies that dispensed the grants were able to report much higher earnings than if they had paid equivalent amounts of compensation in cash. This practice provided no small benefit in the dot.com days, when "beating the estimate by a penny" could goose a stock by 30% or 40% in a single day. As long as share prices were rising, no one cared that the expense of option grants landed squarely on the backs of common shareholders as a reduction of "shareholder equity." But they should have. To satisfy the option grants, companies issued new shares. If the share count goes up without any underlying change to the balance sheet, each share of stock outstanding represents a smaller piece of the company and, therefore, is worth less than before. Favored tactic #2: The share buy-back. This tactic is a very simple, and effective, executive-enrichment tool, especially when used in concert with tactic #1, the option grant. The share buy-back is exactly that, buying shares of the company with cash from the corporate treasury. Not all buy-backs are bad, of course, but many are. A good buy-back uses corporate cash to buy the DEPRESSED shares of a company ? e.g., buying one dollar of assets for fifty cents. A bad buyback does the opposite. But for some corporate insiders, nothing feels quite as good as a buyback that is bad?very, very bad. An option-laden executive loves the buyback for two reasons: 1) It contributes some marginal buying interest to the marketplace, thereby helping to boost the share price and; 2) It reduces the number of shares outstanding, which helps to produce a more flattering earnings per share result. Are you confused yet? You should be; Tactic #1 increases the share count. Tactic #2 DECREASES the share count. The sinister nature of coordinated option grants and share buybacks becomes painfully clear when you realize that many, many American companies simply churn the number of share outstanding without producing a net benefit for the common shareholder. The churning activity does, however, produce an enormous benefit for company insiders. Many, many other tactics ? both legally fraudulent and overtly criminal ? can combine to produce simultaneous wealth creation for management and wealth destruction for shareholders. Few played this game with greater audacity than the federally coddled GSEs, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In July 2003, my former colleagues at Apogee Research, led by a brilliant forensic accountant named Robert Tracy, observed, "For the two years ended December 2002, Fannie [Mae] lost $11.8 billion of asset value that was never reflected in its GAAP [accounting] calculations, while simultaneously reporting GAAP earnings of $10.5 billion. Had the lost asset value been included in Fannie's GAAP net income, it would have booked losses for both years." Obviously, the difference between a profit of $10.5 billion and a loss of more than $1 billion during the years 2001 and 2002 would have seemed material to some investors ? material enough to have kicked Fannie's share price into cellar. The list of abuses committed in the name of merit-based pay does not end with option grants and buybacks. Indeed, many of the merit-based compensation schemes do not erode shareholder value methodically. Instead, they place shareholder capital in extreme peril, solely for the sake of a rising share price. Let's call this the "Wall Street Model." The main advantage of this tactic, from a CEO's standpoint, is that criminal intent is much harder to prove. A CEO who causes his company to leverage up the balance sheet 45-to-1 and uses the leverage to buy risky securities that no pawnbroker would buy at any price can say, "Hey, it seemed like a good idea. Everyone else was doing it. Besides, it wasn't even our fault. It was those damn short sellers that caused the problem!" And if you believe that, then you might also believe that nominally capitalist enterprises always behave capitalistically. But they don't. And neither does the American capitalistic system. The "capitalists" on Wall Street probably imagine that their DNA descends from the likes of Henry Ford, Sam Walton, Bill Gates or some other legendary entrepreneur. But under the microscope of honest examination, Wall Street's DNA appears almost identical to that of most DMV workers. Like their DMV counterparts, Wall Street's chieftains punch a clock each day, devise ways to work as little as possible, provide as little assistance to clients as possible, and periodically tabulate the value of their entitlements. Stated simply, CEOs are not entrepreneurs. They are stewards of the owners' capital. A good steward deserves a good reward?after the fact. A bad steward deserves a pink slip, and two weeks severance. A very bad steward deserves litigation. But American capitalism has strayed very far from these simple precepts of appropriate compensation. Miserable CEOs make spectacular amounts of money. And recent attempts to bring compensation back into line with actual merit must face an indignant chorus of apologists who complain that government-mandated pay is anti-capitalist and interferes with the free market. Really? Don't trillion-dollar bailouts interfere just a little bit with the free market? Wall Street's version of "capitalism" seems to distinguish between different parts of a corporate balance sheet. Assets and revenues belong to the "capitalists;" liabilities and expenses belong to the government. I've got a four-letter word for that: Balderdash. A capitalist takes responsibility for every part of the balance sheet and a truly free market treats assets and liabilities with ambivalence. A free market does not care if the assets belong to a sinner or a saint, or if the liabilities belong to high school dropout or a PhD in Economics. And a free market doesn't give a hoot if the victims of financial mismanagement belong to a country club or a bowling league. So if the truly free markets don't care about these considerations, why should anyone else? To conclude, we would like to issue both a word of caution and an apology. First, the word of caution: The fact that obscenely large executive compensation packages can still claim legions of defenders and apologists suggests that the financial crisis has not yet run its course. When merit-based compensation features more prison bracelets than option grants, the crisis may be drawing to a close?but not until then. And now for our apology: We admit that comparing a Wall Street CEO to a DMV employee is neither exactly fair, nor exactly kind. We apologize, therefore, to all employees of the DMV. I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > The attack has been gaining momentum for years but it went over the top > when > a few self-serving CEOs flew into DC on their aluminum winged chariots as > gods asking for handouts. That image will be very hard to reverse. It > will > take a decade or more, depending on how long the depression (or severe > recession, if you must) lasts. > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:11 PM > {clip} > >> He used to be a buyer for Dillards and flew around the country on >> Dillards fleet of corporate airplanes (which got them home that night >> and in the office the next morning). Barney Frank, et al, have >> declared war on corporate aviation. What does Barney, Obama, and >> friends know about being economically productive? Their class warfare >> is a direct attack on a million jobs. The pendulum has indeed swung, >> which is the whole point of having two or more parties, but it's >> swinging too far, too fast, and is being pushed by idiots. >> > {clip} > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette From dwbrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 17:24:25 2009 From: dwbrad at gmail.com (David Bradley) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:24:25 -0800 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Ra, Ra Session In-Reply-To: <498B0E06.8030502@gmail.com> References: <1D7A9AB198BC4B0A8E0C12F408185693@YOURB88038198E> <498B0E06.8030502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c154df70902051424x2c63dc00y17195a2d126080cf@mail.gmail.com> That is a great clip. Based on Phil Donahue's tie I'd guess what, mid-80s? I wonder what Milton would say about the bankers as capitalists now? Were they stupid capitalists, or should there have been a constraint? Dave On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Ed, > > I'm no expert on Friedman, but he's right on the money there. > > Excellent find, Ed. > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > tootle wrote: >> If anybody has been in sales, sucessful sales organizations have sales >> training and motivation meetings (Ra, Ra Sessions). >> >> An example of a motivational session for freedom lovers: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A >> >> Ed K >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -- David Bradley +1.206.234.3977 dwbrad at gmail.com From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Feb 5 17:45:57 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:45:57 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] David Bradley terminology Message-ID: David, The real issue is you and the MSM calling them capitalist. Did they create enduring value? Or were they con men like Bernie and Obama? Did Heny Ford create enduring value? How can you compare con men to capitalist? Real capitalist understand creating value. Brad's sheet metal workers are creating real value. The financial instruments that the big bankers and financers created, where is the enduring value? Go back and reread Mike W.'s comments. "I have no problem with highly paid talent; just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for." These were talented at slight of hand. That is not enduring value. And their friends in Congress and the SEC let them perform their circus act. Someone suggested replacing all members of the SEC. That would be a good start as long as Obama did not choose them. Obama seems to have an acceptance of cheaters. But then he is your man so that must be O.K? Ed K Addendum: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/2f10657b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/2f10657b/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00 From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 18:08:49 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:08:49 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Political: Madoff whistleblower went unheeded for years Message-ID: Why did it take 9 years to listen? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28310980/ Madoff whistleblower went unheeded for years Mathematical analysis in 1999 showed Madoff's returns were unreal updated 11:17 a.m. ET, Fri., Dec. 19, 2008 BOSTON - His repeated warnings that Wall Street money manager Bernard Madoff was running a giant Ponzi scheme have cast Harry Markopolos as an unheeded prophet. But people who know or worked with Markopolos say it wasn't prescience that helped him foresee the collapse of Madoff's alleged $50 billion fraud. Instead, they say diligence and a strong moral sense drove his quixotic, nine-year quest to alert regulators about Madoff. "He followed through on everything he ever did. He never let up," said his mother, Georgia Markopolos, in an interview Thursday. "Some kids just let it go if it's too hard, but he wouldn't do that." "He feels very sorry for these people that got taken," she added. "It wouldn't have happened if they would have listened to him long ago." Markopolos waged a remarkable battle to uncover fraud at Madoff's operation, sounding the alarm back in 1999 and continuing with his warnings all through this decade. The government never acted, Madoff continued his ways, and people lost billions. Markopolos reached his conclusion with the help of mathematicians like Dan diBartolomeo, whose analysis of the Madoff's methods in 1999 helped fuel Markopolos' suspicions. "People should have seen the writing on the wall," diBartolomeo said. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/aa1387f6/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/aa1387f6/attachment.gif From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 18:10:18 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:10:18 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] US Air 1549 CVR Message-ID: <400985d70902051510y1edc3e8fp7e60db5e7de6122b@mail.gmail.com> This is the real deal, no fooling this time. Brad (I don't think AvWeb requires a password but let me know). http://tinyurl.com/cvsnj3 From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 18:25:05 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:25:05 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Political: Madoff whistleblower went unheeded for years In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400985d70902051525p4e2ec8c2v6abfa0b211147c9a@mail.gmail.com> Mike, It amazes me that someone didn't question how he could never suffer losses when everyone around him did. It didn't make sense because it doesn't make sense. I've probably told the story before - shortly after college while flying for a commuter airline, I supplemented my income (one of many ways) by working for a small CPA firm. They audited a lot of small town banks in Arkansas and often times we'd have to spend a night or two away from Little Rock. While us peons would pour over teller window cash, car loans, and small change, the DUDE would concentrate on loans to officers and directors. That's where the malfeasance was likely to be found. Back at the hotel, we'd sit around and drink beer and scheme of ways to steal from a bank. That's basically Auditing 101. I still can't understand how companies like Enron, WorldCom, and now Madoff can pull the wool over peoples eyes for so long. It ain't rocket science. Glad I stuck to flying, when we bury our mistakes they stayed buried. Brad On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Why did it take 9 years to listen? > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28310980/ > Madoff whistleblower went unheeded for years > Mathematical analysis in 1999 showed Madoff's returns were unreal > > updated 11:17 a.m. ET, Fri., Dec. 19, 2008 function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { > var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && > window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); > if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = > dt.D2S(pdt,((''.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } > UpdateTimeStamp('633653002400000000'); > > BOSTON - His repeated warnings that Wall Street money manager Bernard Madoff > was running a giant Ponzi scheme have cast Harry Markopolos as an unheeded > prophet. > > But people who know or worked with Markopolos say it wasn't prescience that > helped him foresee the collapse of Madoff's alleged $50 billion fraud. > Instead, they say diligence and a strong moral sense drove his quixotic, > nine-year quest to alert regulators about Madoff. > > "He followed through on everything he ever did. He never let up," said his > mother, Georgia Markopolos, in an interview Thursday. "Some kids just let it > go if it's too hard, but he wouldn't do that." > > "He feels very sorry for these people that got taken," she added. "It > wouldn't have happened if they would have listened to him long ago." > > Markopolos waged a remarkable battle to uncover fraud at Madoff's operation, > sounding the alarm back in 1999 and continuing with his warnings all through > this decade. The government never acted, Madoff continued his ways, and > people lost billions. > > Markopolos reached his conclusion with the help of mathematicians like Dan > diBartolomeo, whose analysis of the Madoff's methods in 1999 helped fuel > Markopolos' suspicions. > > "People should have seen the writing on the wall," diBartolomeo said. > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 18:32:28 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:32:28 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] US Air 1549 CVR References: <400985d70902051510y1edc3e8fp7e60db5e7de6122b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Very interesting. Worst responses: 1. "unable" 2. "we're gonna be in the hudson" 3. " ... 1549 radar contact is lost" 4. "whatever you want, man" LGA/DC must have swallowed a whole bottle of antacid waiting for status. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:10 PM > This is the real deal, no fooling this time. Brad (I don't think > AvWeb requires a password but let me know). > > http://tinyurl.com/cvsnj3 > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 5 18:37:42 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:37:42 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Political: Madoff whistleblower wentunheeded for years References: <400985d70902051525p4e2ec8c2v6abfa0b211147c9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <788CB11F3B5445BFB63F0EEB0A2BC7D6@ebsoffice> Brad, You state: "I still can't understand how companies like Enron, WorldCom, and now Madoff can pull the wool over peoples eyes for so long." We were caught in the WCOM sting, another Bernie, BTW. It was just greed. We should have cashed out long before but it just kept getting better. At least Ebbers got 25 years for his part. Moral of the story, never give your money to a guy named Bernie. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:25 PM > Mike, > > It amazes me that someone didn't question how he could never suffer > losses when everyone around him did. It didn't make sense because it > doesn't make sense. I've probably told the story before - shortly > after college while flying for a commuter airline, I supplemented my > income (one of many ways) by working for a small CPA firm. They > audited a lot of small town banks in Arkansas and often times we'd > have to spend a night or two away from Little Rock. While us peons > would pour over teller window cash, car loans, and small change, the > DUDE would concentrate on loans to officers and directors. That's > where the malfeasance was likely to be found. Back at the hotel, we'd > sit around and drink beer and scheme of ways to steal from a bank. > That's basically Auditing 101. I still can't understand how companies > like Enron, WorldCom, and now Madoff can pull the wool over peoples > eyes for so long. It ain't rocket science. Glad I stuck to flying, > when we bury our mistakes they stayed buried. > > Brad > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Michael D. Weisner > wrote: >> Why did it take 9 years to listen? >> >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28310980/ >> Madoff whistleblower went unheeded for years >> Mathematical analysis in 1999 showed Madoff's returns were unreal >> >> updated 11:17 a.m. ET, Fri., Dec. 19, 2008 function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) >> { >> var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && >> window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); >> if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = >> dt.D2S(pdt,((''.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } >> UpdateTimeStamp('633653002400000000'); >> >> BOSTON - His repeated warnings that Wall Street money manager Bernard >> Madoff >> was running a giant Ponzi scheme have cast Harry Markopolos as an >> unheeded >> prophet. >> >> But people who know or worked with Markopolos say it wasn't prescience >> that >> helped him foresee the collapse of Madoff's alleged $50 billion fraud. >> Instead, they say diligence and a strong moral sense drove his quixotic, >> nine-year quest to alert regulators about Madoff. >> >> "He followed through on everything he ever did. He never let up," said >> his >> mother, Georgia Markopolos, in an interview Thursday. "Some kids just let >> it >> go if it's too hard, but he wouldn't do that." >> >> "He feels very sorry for these people that got taken," she added. "It >> wouldn't have happened if they would have listened to him long ago." >> >> Markopolos waged a remarkable battle to uncover fraud at Madoff's >> operation, >> sounding the alarm back in 1999 and continuing with his warnings all >> through >> this decade. The government never acted, Madoff continued his ways, and >> people lost billions. >> >> Markopolos reached his conclusion with the help of mathematicians like >> Dan >> diBartolomeo, whose analysis of the Madoff's methods in 1999 helped fuel >> Markopolos' suspicions. >> >> "People should have seen the writing on the wall," diBartolomeo said. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 18:42:31 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:42:31 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] David Bradley terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400985d70902051542kca92157ueb0bfb2f1a5668bf@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Just got an e-mail today from my CEO (not exactly personal mind you, 200,000 others got the same e-mail in forty different languages) that basically said: "yada, yada, yada, customers, customers, customers, you, yada, yada, customers, customers, customers....". It wasn't ALL doom and gloom, actually it was quite inspiring. Companies that provide real value to their customers survive, those that don't, well, don't. One of the more interesting thoughts expressed in the letter to the Beechcraft employees I posted yesterday was their concern about doing what it took to survive so their children's and grandchildren's jobs would be protected. Beechcraft was started during the Great Depression by Walter Beech. When he died after WW2, his wife Olive took over the company. When I attended Beech King Air school in the early 80's the employees always spoke of the "Beech family" to which they belonged. Behind every great company there are great people and great leaders. No one really knows how far south this current economic "crisis" will go, but one thing is certain: there will be surviving companies and they will be led by great people. At no time in the history of mankind has a government created wealth. Governments can only confiscate and re-distribute wealth. But, you already know that. Brad On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > David, > > The real issue is you and the MSM calling them capitalist. Did they create > enduring value? Or were they con men like Bernie and Obama? > > Did Heny Ford create enduring value? > > How can you compare con men to capitalist? Real capitalist understand > creating value. Brad's sheet metal workers are creating real value. The > financial instruments that the big bankers and financers created, where is > the enduring value? > > Go back and reread Mike W.'s comments. "I have no problem with highly paid > talent; just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for." > > These were talented at slight of hand. That is not enduring value. And > their friends in Congress and the SEC let them perform their circus act. > Someone suggested replacing all members of the SEC. That would be a good > start as long as Obama did not choose them. Obama seems to have an > acceptance of cheaters. But then he is your man so that must be O.K? > > Ed K > Addendum: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of > miseries." Winston Churchill > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 > 08:24:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From tootle at charter.net Thu Feb 5 19:17:40 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 19:17:40 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Brother Brad Message-ID: <2244F85D8E6E45929F97CE43A1970CF7@YOURB88038198E> Brad, Thank you for that audio. When it finished I thought of me and my little Cessna on final with a hot F-105 five miles out. And controller saying 72 Bravo take first turn off runway right. I was on duty one night when a flying command post crashed in northern Canada. Since I had radio contact with airplanes and especially airborne command post, I knew what happened before the base command post and SAC HQ. Before they could launch another 'Looking Glass' type aircraft they had to change all the war codes for the entire Air Force and Navy. Yes, once there is a problem, one ear on the speaker and the mouth on land line telling HQ what was happening. And that controller had to continue on... Can we attribute this to you? "At no time in the history of mankind has a government created wealth. Governments can only confiscate and re-distribute wealth." Mike, Can we say that some of these guys breached their "Fiduciary Duty"? A Fiduciary Duty is an "obligation to act in the best interest of another party. For instance, a corporation's board member has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders, a trustee has a fiduciary duty to the trust's beneficiaries, and an attorney has a fiduciary duty to a client." "A fiduciary obligation exists whenever one person, the client, places special trust and confidence in another person and relies upon that person, the fiduciary, to exercise his discretion or expertise in acting for the client; and the fiduciary knowingly accepts that trust and confidence and thereafter undertakes to act in behalf of the client by exercising his, the fiduciary's, own discretion and expertise." from the Lectric Law Library's legal Lexicon Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090205/a466552f/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 21:09:14 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:09:14 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Brother Brad In-Reply-To: <2244F85D8E6E45929F97CE43A1970CF7@YOURB88038198E> References: <2244F85D8E6E45929F97CE43A1970CF7@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d70902051809r5915c960k7d407797f2b6e8c1@mail.gmail.com> Ed, That phrase was "borrowed" from someone but it should be common sense to anyone with the slightest understanding of economics or history. I just listened to President Obama's speech from Williamsburg, Va and here are a couple of quick and dirty thoughts. His comments about "having an excuse to fly on Air Force One" was an innocent enough throw-away line but in horrible taste considering "global warming" and all the bad mouthing corporate aviation has gotten lately. Yeah, that is petty on my part but I'm sure others noticed and cringed a bit. More to the important matters, how much of the current gloom and doom is due to the Bully Pulpit constantly haranguing us with gloom and doom? We don't need sunshine blown up our arses but let's be realistic here - current unemployment is slightly above 7%, where it was through all of 1992, most of 1981-04, and 1975-76. Current interest rates are at an all time low and inflation is very low compared to 13% in 1979. How about our Dear Leader giving us some Hope for Change? Does he really want the economy to recover or does he have ulterior motives. Gotta run, the Reichstag is burning! Brad On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:17 PM, tootle wrote: > Brad, > > Thank you for that audio. When it finished I thought of me and my little > Cessna on final with a hot F-105 five miles out. And controller saying 72 > Bravo take first turn off runway right. > > I was on duty one night when a flying command post crashed in northern > Canada. Since I had radio contact with airplanes and especially airborne > command post, I knew what happened before the base command post and SAC HQ. > Before they could launch another 'Looking Glass' type aircraft they had to > change all the war codes for the entire Air Force and Navy. > > Yes, once there is a problem, one ear on the speaker and the mouth on land > line telling HQ what was happening. > > And that controller had to continue on... > > Can we attribute this to you? "At no time in the history of mankind has a > government created wealth. Governments can only confiscate and > re-distribute wealth." > > Mike, > > Can we say that some of these guys breached their "Fiduciary Duty"? > > A Fiduciary Duty is an "obligation to act in the best interest of another > party. For instance, a corporation's board member has a fiduciary duty to > the shareholders, a trustee has a fiduciary duty to the trust's > beneficiaries, and an attorney has a fiduciary duty to a client." > > > > "A fiduciary obligation exists whenever one person, the client, places > special trust and confidence in another person and relies upon that person, > the fiduciary, to exercise his discretion or expertise in acting for the > client; and the fiduciary knowingly accepts that trust and confidence and > thereafter undertakes to act in behalf of the client by exercising his, the > fiduciary's, own discretion and expertise." from the Lectric Law Library's > legal Lexicon > > > > > > Ed K > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 > 08:24:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 21:36:03 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:36:03 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Blago Earmark Message-ID: <400985d70902051836o7a1c31b9ie1f75528cc3e110@mail.gmail.com> You can't make stuff like this up. Mattoon, IL is near my parents home and Eastern Illinois University where I went to school for a couple of years and taught aviation ground school classes at the nearby LakeLand Junior College. Frankly, I didn't know this project was in the works. If you just HAD to spend 2 BILLION in the area, it is right next door to the Salem-Louden anticline of the Illinois Basin Oilfield. How about trying some micro-hole drilling, or enhanced water injection recovery, or remote monitoring of wellheads. Oh silly me, that would involve oil - my bad! My nephew is in the construction industry in Effingham, 30 miles south. Rather than build another boondoggle, why don't we just hire people to dig a big hole and hire other people to fill it? Makes perfect sense to me. Brad ---------------- What's in the Stimulus?: An Earmark as Big as the Ritz [Mark Hemingway] Buried in the 800 page stimulus bill is this seemingly innocuous allocation ? well it's inocuous relative to a $1 trillion stimulus bill anyway ? "$2,000,000,000 is available for one or more near zero emission powerplant(s)." Interstingly enough, there's no such thing as a "near zero emission powerplant" ? yet. The Bush administration had been planning to try and build the first of its kind in Mattoon, Illinois as part of the FutureGen project. The Department of Energy scuttled the project last year in part due to rising costs. The project was to be done as a part of a public-private alliance with the DOE picking up 74 percent of the projected $1.8 billion price tag, compared to initial estimates of $950 million. Further, technological advancements had made the project obsolete. In a letter to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, headlined "New technology makes FutureGen a waste of tax money," then Secretary of Energy, Samuel W. Bodman, wrote: The project's estimated cost has almost doubled and innovations in technology and changes in the marketplace have created other viable options for demonstrating carbon capture and storage on a commercial scale. That diminished the need for a demonstration project. It became clear the Department of Energy could not, in good conscience, continue to support the program. The likelihood that it would fail, leaving the American people with hundreds of millions of dollars in sunk cost and none of the benefits, is not acceptable. An MIT report concluded "the U.S. government begin thinking about such a portfolio of demonstration projects and not be singularly focused on any one project such as FutureGen." And the Washington Post editorial board also concluded the technology was "prohibitively expensive." So in effect the inclusion of $2 billion for a near zero emissions powerplant amounts to a staggering earmark ? one that's nine times the cost of the bridge to nowhere. It's also substantially larger than Congress' previous earmark record of $1.5 billion for the DC metro system last year. After FutureGen was abandoned, disgraced Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich paid Cassidy and Associates, a major Washington, D.C. lobbying firm, $468,000 in public funds to lobby to restart the project. The Illinois delegation in Congress has also been pushing hard for the FutureGen earmark, despite the fact that the Obama administration has been vocal about their opposition to earmarks in the stimulus, and has even specfically said they are oppposed to including funding for FutureGen in the bill. The Wall Street Journal estimates that the FutureGen would generate about 2,675 new jobs ? and only 150 of those are permanent. Congress would be spending just shy of $750,000 per new job. The language is still in the stimulus, though Senator Tom Coburn ? the Van Helsing of earmark hunters ? has introduced an amendment (#108) to strike the FutureGen funding from the bill. From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 23:10:15 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:10:15 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Free Speech - Fairness Doctrine Message-ID: <400985d70902052010x718c1ef0ue3cb1077bc668056@mail.gmail.com> BOHICA - Bend Over, Here It Comes Again "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate? 1940, 1944 and 1948 Free Speech - Just Words? For the original article and video go here - http://tinyurl.com/c72qs9 Are people really as stupid as I think they are? Don't answer that! Brad ----------------------- February 05, 2009 Categories: Talk Radio Sen. Stabenow wants hearings on radio 'accountability'; talks fairness doctrine This morning, radio host Bill Press brought up the recent closing of liberal station Obama 1260 when speaking with Michigan Sen. Debbie Stabenow, and talked about whether there needs to be a balance to right-wing talk on the radio dial. BILL PRESS: Yeah, I mean, look: They have a right to say that. They've got a right to express that. But, they should not be the only voices heard. So, is it time to bring back the Fairness Doctrine? SENATOR DEBBIE STABENOW (D-MI): I think it's absolutely time to pass a standard. Now, whether it's called the Fairness Standard, whether it's called something else ? I absolutely think it's time to be bringing accountability to the airwaves. I mean, our new president has talked rightly about accountability and transparency. You know, that we all have to step up and be responsible. And, I think in this case, there needs to be some accountability and standards put in place. BILL PRESS: Can we count on you to push for some hearings in the United States Senate this year, to bring these owners in and hold them accountable? SENATOR DEBBIE STABENOW (D-MI): I have already had some discussions with colleagues and, you know, I feel like that's gonna happen. Yep. Although Obama has been publicly opposed to reinstating the fairness doctrine, conservative radio has talked nonstop about the fear of it returning (or perhaps something like it with another name) while there's a Democrat in the White House and a Democratic majority in Congress. UPDATE: A commenter points out that Stabenow is married to Tom Athans, a liberal talk radio executive. From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 07:54:19 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 06:54:19 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The Senator from South Carolina Message-ID: <400985d70902060454o972dc70m943ce2f7d5ce277b@mail.gmail.com> We need to find out what Sen. Lindsey Graham drinks and send a case to all the Senators. http://eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=ydnzVrkU6U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPp5kbBniKo&eurl=http://www.redstate.com/&feature=player_embedded Brad From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 09:09:15 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 08:09:15 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The Senator from South Carolina In-Reply-To: <400985d70902060454o972dc70m943ce2f7d5ce277b@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902060454o972dc70m943ce2f7d5ce277b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498C448B.9060903@gmail.com> Brad, I'd sure throw in on a couple cases .... Crazy might not be a strong enough description Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > We need to find out what Sen. Lindsey Graham drinks and send a case to > all the Senators. > > http://eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=ydnzVrkU6U > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPp5kbBniKo&eurl=http://www.redstate.com/&feature=player_embedded > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From dwbrad at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 09:38:24 2009 From: dwbrad at gmail.com (David Bradley) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 06:38:24 -0800 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] David Bradley terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c154df70902060638o67df84bdjf47edb1f5568ff1b@mail.gmail.com> Ed, nice to chat again. Is that really the "real" issue? Pretty far down my list. I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists. Maybe something to do with providing capital? The fact that a number of bankers (really the Boards that are at fault) were reckless in the pursuit of quarterly earnings makes them idiot capitalists... in hindsight. The fact that the SEC wasn't all over reserves and wasn't tracking with the piling up of derivatives and the like in my mind is criminal. If Obama selected Daschle and the others with knowledge that they had tax issues then he would be unethical and stupid for having done so. I don't think he's stupid. I think there are enough lapses in ethics in his past that I wouldn't hold him up as squeekly clean. That wasn't my criterion for selecting him, and remember, he wasn't my first choice. Dave On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > David, > > The real issue is you and the MSM calling them capitalist. Did they create > enduring value? Or were they con men like Bernie and Obama? > > Did Heny Ford create enduring value? > > How can you compare con men to capitalist? Real capitalist understand > creating value. Brad's sheet metal workers are creating real value. The > financial instruments that the big bankers and financers created, where is > the enduring value? > > Go back and reread Mike W.'s comments. "I have no problem with highly paid > talent; just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for." > > These were talented at slight of hand. That is not enduring value. And > their friends in Congress and the SEC let them perform their circus act. > Someone suggested replacing all members of the SEC. That would be a good > start as long as Obama did not choose them. Obama seems to have an > acceptance of cheaters. But then he is your man so that must be O.K? > > Ed K > Addendum: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of > blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of > miseries." Winston Churchill > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 > 08:24:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- David Bradley +1.206.234.3977 dwbrad at gmail.com From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 10:30:49 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:30:49 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Archives In-Reply-To: <5c154df70902060638o67df84bdjf47edb1f5568ff1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c154df70902060638o67df84bdjf47edb1f5568ff1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498C57A9.8090007@effros.com> Dave, I knew this couldn't possibly be what you wanted to talk about, so I tried going to the archives to find the beginning of the Dave Bradley thread. That turned out to be more difficult than I thought. I want to make it easier, and will get to it when I can, which is not now. This is just a test of this link to see if it gets us where I want to go. http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/ Bill Effros List Administrator David Bradley wrote: > Ed, nice to chat again. > > Is that really the "real" issue? Pretty far down my list. > > I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists. Maybe > something to do with providing capital? The fact that a number of > bankers (really the Boards that are at fault) were reckless in the > pursuit of quarterly earnings makes them idiot capitalists... in > hindsight. The fact that the SEC wasn't all over reserves and wasn't > tracking with the piling up of derivatives and the like in my mind is > criminal. > > If Obama selected Daschle and the others with knowledge that they had > tax issues then he would be unethical and stupid for having done so. > I don't think he's stupid. I think there are enough lapses in ethics > in his past that I wouldn't hold him up as squeekly clean. That > wasn't my criterion for selecting him, and remember, he wasn't my > first choice. > > Dave > > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > >> David, >> >> The real issue is you and the MSM calling them capitalist. Did they create >> enduring value? Or were they con men like Bernie and Obama? >> >> Did Heny Ford create enduring value? >> >> How can you compare con men to capitalist? Real capitalist understand >> creating value. Brad's sheet metal workers are creating real value. The >> financial instruments that the big bankers and financers created, where is >> the enduring value? >> >> Go back and reread Mike W.'s comments. "I have no problem with highly paid >> talent; just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for." >> >> These were talented at slight of hand. That is not enduring value. And >> their friends in Congress and the SEC let them perform their circus act. >> Someone suggested replacing all members of the SEC. That would be a good >> start as long as Obama did not choose them. Obama seems to have an >> acceptance of cheaters. But then he is your man so that must be O.K? >> >> Ed K >> Addendum: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >> blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >> miseries." Winston Churchill >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 >> 08:24:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/8a20d148/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 10:38:39 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:38:39 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Archives In-Reply-To: <498C57A9.8090007@effros.com> References: <5c154df70902060638o67df84bdjf47edb1f5568ff1b@mail.gmail.com> <498C57A9.8090007@effros.com> Message-ID: <498C597F.1020308@effros.com> OK, That worked. It will be easy to follow threads if we change the subject lines as we change the subject. Also, you can go into vacation mode when you don't have the time for all the email, and not miss anything. The Archive actively lists every new email in the date sort at the bottom. The Archives are open, anyone can read them or download them. You need to be a member of the list only to post to the list without my prior approval. (I have to give my initial approval, but after that, don't drop off the list, just go into vacation mode if you think you might EVER want to be able to quickly inject your thoughts.) Bill Effros List Administrator Bill Effros wrote: > Dave, > > I knew this couldn't possibly be what you wanted to talk about, so I > tried going to the archives to find the beginning of the Dave Bradley > thread. That turned out to be more difficult than I thought. > > I want to make it easier, and will get to it when I can, which is not now. > > This is just a test of this link to see if it gets us where I want to go. > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/ > > Bill Effros > List Administrator > > > > David Bradley wrote: >> Ed, nice to chat again. >> >> Is that really the "real" issue? Pretty far down my list. >> >> I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists. Maybe >> something to do with providing capital? The fact that a number of >> bankers (really the Boards that are at fault) were reckless in the >> pursuit of quarterly earnings makes them idiot capitalists... in >> hindsight. The fact that the SEC wasn't all over reserves and wasn't >> tracking with the piling up of derivatives and the like in my mind is >> criminal. >> >> If Obama selected Daschle and the others with knowledge that they had >> tax issues then he would be unethical and stupid for having done so. >> I don't think he's stupid. I think there are enough lapses in ethics >> in his past that I wouldn't hold him up as squeekly clean. That >> wasn't my criterion for selecting him, and remember, he wasn't my >> first choice. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: >> >>> David, >>> >>> The real issue is you and the MSM calling them capitalist. Did they create >>> enduring value? Or were they con men like Bernie and Obama? >>> >>> Did Heny Ford create enduring value? >>> >>> How can you compare con men to capitalist? Real capitalist understand >>> creating value. Brad's sheet metal workers are creating real value. The >>> financial instruments that the big bankers and financers created, where is >>> the enduring value? >>> >>> Go back and reread Mike W.'s comments. "I have no problem with highly paid >>> talent; just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for." >>> >>> These were talented at slight of hand. That is not enduring value. And >>> their friends in Congress and the SEC let them perform their circus act. >>> Someone suggested replacing all members of the SEC. That would be a good >>> start as long as Obama did not choose them. Obama seems to have an >>> acceptance of cheaters. But then he is your man so that must be O.K? >>> >>> Ed K >>> Addendum: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >>> blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >>> miseries." Winston Churchill >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 >>> 08:24:00 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/a93066b4/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Fri Feb 6 10:48:51 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:48:51 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Archives References: <5c154df70902060638o67df84bdjf47edb1f5568ff1b@mail.gmail.com> <498C57A9.8090007@effros.com> Message-ID: Bill, If you want to be able to search the archives, you need to add an archiver to your list. For the R22, the archiver is nabble.com, although they have become a bit strange to work with as they are having growing pains at this time. Another is "The Mail Archive" at http://www.mail-archive.com/ Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Effros To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Archives Dave, I knew this couldn't possibly be what you wanted to talk about, so I tried going to the archives to find the beginning of the Dave Bradley thread. That turned out to be more difficult than I thought. I want to make it easier, and will get to it when I can, which is not now. This is just a test of this link to see if it gets us where I want to go. http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/ Bill Effros List Administrator David Bradley wrote: Ed, nice to chat again. Is that really the "real" issue? Pretty far down my list. I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists. Maybe something to do with providing capital? The fact that a number of bankers (really the Boards that are at fault) were reckless in the pursuit of quarterly earnings makes them idiot capitalists... in hindsight. The fact that the SEC wasn't all over reserves and wasn't tracking with the piling up of derivatives and the like in my mind is criminal. If Obama selected Daschle and the others with knowledge that they had tax issues then he would be unethical and stupid for having done so. I don't think he's stupid. I think there are enough lapses in ethics in his past that I wouldn't hold him up as squeekly clean. That wasn't my criterion for selecting him, and remember, he wasn't my first choice. Dave On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: David, The real issue is you and the MSM calling them capitalist. Did they create enduring value? Or were they con men like Bernie and Obama? Did Heny Ford create enduring value? How can you compare con men to capitalist? Real capitalist understand creating value. Brad's sheet metal workers are creating real value. The financial instruments that the big bankers and financers created, where is the enduring value? Go back and reread Mike W.'s comments. "I have no problem with highly paid talent; just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for." These were talented at slight of hand. That is not enduring value. And their friends in Congress and the SEC let them perform their circus act. Someone suggested replacing all members of the SEC. That would be a good start as long as Obama did not choose them. Obama seems to have an acceptance of cheaters. But then he is your man so that must be O.K? Ed K Addendum: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." Winston Churchill No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00 _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/e18aa54b/attachment-0001.html From pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net Fri Feb 6 11:10:12 2009 From: pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net (pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:10:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Free Speech - Fairness Doctrine In-Reply-To: <400985d70902052010x718c1ef0ue3cb1077bc668056@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902052010x718c1ef0ue3cb1077bc668056@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45505.216.109.207.84.1233936612.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> Brad, It seems to me that Conservative Talk Radio became popular as the MSM startted veering to the left. In other words, it filled a void created by the MSM. Paul > BOHICA - Bend Over, Here It Comes Again > > "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under > the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the > socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, > without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist > Party presidential candidate??? 1940, 1944 and 1948 > > Free Speech - Just Words? > > For the original article and video go here - http://tinyurl.com/c72qs9 > > Are people really as stupid as I think they are? Don't answer that! > > Brad > > ----------------------- > > February 05, 2009 > Categories: Talk Radio > Sen. Stabenow wants hearings on radio 'accountability'; talks fairness > doctrine > > This morning, radio host Bill Press brought up the recent closing of > liberal station Obama 1260 when speaking with Michigan Sen. Debbie > Stabenow, and talked about whether there needs to be a balance to > right-wing talk on the radio dial. > > BILL PRESS: Yeah, I mean, look: They have a right to say that. > They've got a right to express that. But, they should not be the only > voices heard. So, is it time to bring back the Fairness Doctrine? > > SENATOR DEBBIE STABENOW (D-MI): I think it's absolutely time to > pass a standard. Now, whether it's called the Fairness Standard, > whether it's called something else ??? I absolutely think it's time to > be bringing accountability to the airwaves. I mean, our new president > has talked rightly about accountability and transparency. You know, > that we all have to step up and be responsible. And, I think in this > case, there needs to be some accountability and standards put in > place. > > BILL PRESS: Can we count on you to push for some hearings in the > United States Senate this year, to bring these owners in and hold them > accountable? > > SENATOR DEBBIE STABENOW (D-MI): I have already had some > discussions with colleagues and, you know, I feel like that's gonna > happen. Yep. > > Although Obama has been publicly opposed to reinstating the fairness > doctrine, conservative radio has talked nonstop about the fear of it > returning (or perhaps something like it with another name) while > there's a Democrat in the White House and a Democratic majority in > Congress. > > UPDATE: A commenter points out that Stabenow is married to Tom Athans, > a liberal talk radio executive. > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From ekroposki at charter.net Fri Feb 6 11:18:55 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:18:55 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] David, a reply about your terminology Message-ID: <71C1DE7E98DE47A8B009BE5C78EA1574@YOURB88038198E> David, You said, "I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists." I completely disagree. If someone is in a job that allocates capital that does not make him a capitalist. That person could be a socialist and just filling a slot. His attitudes though would be reflected in any allocation as demonstrated in giving mortages to those who could not fuffill them. I have said it before that a sheriff is part of the system. As I posted yesterday to Mike W. there was a failure of fiduciary duty on part of the bankers and SEC. I agree that immediately all SEC members should be replaced because of their failure of fiduciary duty to the public as members of the commission that was responsible for fair dealings with securities. I say that any and all officers and board members of banks and other financial institution involve breached their fiduciary duty to stockholders, employees and the purchasers of the flimsy and fraudulent securities that they created and sold. That would include Brad's man Sandy Weil, Henry Paulson, etc. Put on a public trial and see what 12 citizens would think. But because you deal with capital does not make you a capitalist. Being a capitalist is more than that. Here are some comments by Michael Fisher: "the true function of capitalists and businessmen is to raise the productivity, and thus the real wages, of manual labor by means of creating, coordinating, and improving the efficiency of the division of labor." By continuously improving the efficiency of labor, capitalists are responsible for raising (real) wages and creating employment which serve to raise the standard of living of everyone. Therefore, it is the capitalists that are the true humanitarians, it is because of them that so much life-saving and labor-saving technology is available to so many people." You are sold on MSM words and need to read more on economic theory. Find a book or two by Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman's defended capitalism, where he "stood up for the concept which Adam Smith identified so eloquently in 'An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations'" That is "individuals pursuing their personal interests. This concept, unfortunately, has come to be known as "greed" by the Left." M Hittle This is the concept of capitalism is alluded to by Ayn Rand. "Ultimately, "Atlas Shrugged" is a celebration of the entrepreneur, the risk taker and the cultivator of wealth through human intellect. Critics dismissed the novel as simple-minded, and even some of Rand's political admirers complained that she lacked compassion. Yet one pertinent warning resounds throughout the book: When profits and wealth and creativity are denigrated in society, they start to disappear -- leaving everyone the poorer. " Wall Street Journal on line Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/8f7c4bfc/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/8f7c4bfc/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 11:34:00 From pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net Fri Feb 6 11:20:12 2009 From: pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net (pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:20:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The Fierce Urgency of Pork Message-ID: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Good article below. Paul The Fierce Urgency of Pork By Charles Krauthammer Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." -- President Obama, Feb. 4. Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." Until, that is, you need fear to pass a bill. And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax delinquent. The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more than taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. But what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking up the phone and peddling influence. At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been working for years as a humble international civil servant earning non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a year (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to upend. And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite logically, no plans for new construction. It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what made Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance. The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive. After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory Obama would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and that this president told better than anyone. I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half weeks. letters at charleskrauthammer.com From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 11:20:56 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:20:56 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Ol' Blue Message-ID: <498C6368.5020408@effros.com> I imagine this one has gone around many times, but this is the first time for me: A young cowboy from Wyoming goes off to college. Half way through the semester, he has foolishly squandered all his money. He calls home. "Dad," he says, "You won't believe what modern education is developing! They actually have a program here in Laramie that will teach our dog, Ol' Blue how to talk!" "That's amazing," his Dad says. "How do I get Ol' Blue in that program?" "Just send him down here with $1,000" the young cowboy says. "I'll get him in the course." So, his father sends the dog and $1,000. About two-thirds of the way through the semester, the money again runs out. The boy calls home. "So how's Ol' Blue doing son?" his father asks. "Awesome, Dad, he's talking up a storm," he says, "but you just won't believe this - they've had such good results they have started to teach the animals how to read!" "Read!?" says his father, "No kidding! How do we get Blue in that program?" "Just send $2,500, I'll get him in the class." The money promptly arrives. But our hero has a problem. At the end of the year, his father will find out the dog can neither talk, nor read. So he shoots the dog. When he arrives home at the end of the year, his father is all excited. "Where's Ol' Blue? I just can't wait to see him read something and talk!" "Dad," the boy says, "I have some grim news. Yesterday morning, just before we left to drive home, Ol' Blue was in the living room, kicked back in the recliner, reading the Wall Street Journal, like he usually does. Then he turned to me and asked, "So, is your daddy still messing' around with that little redhead who lives in town?" The father exclaimed, "I hope you shot that son of a bitch before he talks to your Mother!" "I sure did, Dad!" "That's my boy!" The kid went on to be a successful lawyer, and then he went on to become the Governor of Illinois............. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/14a3366b/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 11:25:18 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:25:18 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People In-Reply-To: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> References: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> Message-ID: <498C646E.4030204@effros.com> Paul, Most people focus on the "can't fool all of the people..." part of that quote, but what has always bothered me the most was the "You can fool some of the people all of the time." part. That's true, too, and it just scares the hell out of me. B. pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote: > You can fool some of the people all of the time. > You can fool all of the people some of the time. > But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. > Good article below. > > Paul > > The Fierce Urgency of Pork > > By Charles Krauthammer > Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 > > > > "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." > > -- President Obama, Feb. 4. > > > > Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural > address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." Until, > that is, you need fear to pass a bill. > > And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence > peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning > lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen > current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury > secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in > his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according > to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax > delinquent. > > The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more than > taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal > isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. But > what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that > amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. > > He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a > lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money > to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking > up the phone and peddling influence. > > At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been > working for years as a humble international civil servant earning > non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a year > (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private > equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to > upend. > > And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the > appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He > inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the > House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just > bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. > > It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways > and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade > war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new > construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee > Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite > logically, no plans for new construction. > > It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal > rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are > suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate > job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions > that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office > says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than > the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that > Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. > > Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where > the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give > way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what made > Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes > $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance. > > The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics > influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill > reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and > high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate > overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine > growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single > phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" > would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive. > > After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at > some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would > rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory Obama > would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations > promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and > that this president told better than anyone. > > I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half weeks. > > letters at charleskrauthammer.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net Fri Feb 6 11:27:15 2009 From: pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net (pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:27:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People In-Reply-To: <498C646E.4030204@effros.com> References: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> <498C646E.4030204@effros.com> Message-ID: <46649.216.109.207.84.1233937635.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> Bill - I couldn't agree more. Very scary. - Paul > Paul, > > Most people focus on the "can't fool all of the people..." part of that > quote, but what has always bothered me the most was the "You can fool > some of the people all of the time." part. That's true, too, and it > just scares the hell out of me. > > B. > > > > pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote: >> You can fool some of the people all of the time. >> You can fool all of the people some of the time. >> But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. >> Good article below. >> >> Paul >> >> The Fierce Urgency of Pork >> >> By Charles Krauthammer >> Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 >> >> >> >> "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." >> >> -- President Obama, Feb. 4. >> >> >> >> Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural >> address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." >> Until, >> that is, you need fear to pass a bill. >> >> And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence >> peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning >> lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen >> current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury >> secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions >> in >> his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword >> according >> to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax >> delinquent. >> >> The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more >> than >> taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal >> isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. >> But >> what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that >> amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. >> >> He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a >> lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money >> to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for >> picking >> up the phone and peddling influence. >> >> At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been >> working for years as a humble international civil servant earning >> non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a >> year >> (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private >> equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington >> to >> upend. >> >> And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the >> appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He >> inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the >> House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just >> bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. >> >> It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways >> and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade >> war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new >> construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee >> Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, >> quite >> logically, no plans for new construction. >> >> It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal >> rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are >> suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate >> job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions >> that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office >> says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than >> the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that >> Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. >> >> Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where >> the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give >> way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what >> made >> Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" >> includes >> $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) >> insurance. >> >> The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics >> influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus >> bill >> reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and >> high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate >> overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine >> growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single >> phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" >> would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" >> incentive. >> >> After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that >> at >> some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would >> rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory >> Obama >> would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations >> promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and >> that this president told better than anyone. >> >> I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half >> weeks. >> >> letters at charleskrauthammer.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Fri Feb 6 11:34:54 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:34:54 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People References: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> <498C646E.4030204@effros.com> Message-ID: If something "scares the hell out of me" is it a good thing? Where does it go? Where was it before? Please excuse me, I was watching the Twain Award presentation to Carlin last night. I sure do miss George's language precision. Mike From: "Bill Effros" Friday, February 06, 2009 11:25 AM > Paul, > > Most people focus on the "can't fool all of the people..." part of that > quote, but what has always bothered me the most was the "You can fool > some of the people all of the time." part. That's true, too, and it > just scares the hell out of me. > > B. > > > > pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote: >> You can fool some of the people all of the time. >> You can fool all of the people some of the time. >> But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. >> Good article below. >> >> Paul >> >> The Fierce Urgency of Pork >> >> By Charles Krauthammer >> Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 >> >> >> >> "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." >> >> -- President Obama, Feb. 4. >> >> >> >> Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural >> address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." >> Until, >> that is, you need fear to pass a bill. >> >> And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence >> peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning >> lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen >> current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury >> secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in >> his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according >> to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax >> delinquent. >> >> The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more >> than >> taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal >> isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. >> But >> what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that >> amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. >> >> He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a >> lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money >> to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking >> up the phone and peddling influence. >> >> At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been >> working for years as a humble international civil servant earning >> non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a >> year >> (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private >> equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to >> upend. >> >> And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the >> appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He >> inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the >> House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just >> bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. >> >> It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways >> and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade >> war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new >> construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee >> Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite >> logically, no plans for new construction. >> >> It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal >> rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are >> suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate >> job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions >> that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office >> says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than >> the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that >> Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. >> >> Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where >> the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give >> way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what >> made >> Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes >> $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance. >> >> The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics >> influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill >> reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and >> high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate >> overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine >> growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single >> phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" >> would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive. >> >> After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at >> some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would >> rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory >> Obama >> would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations >> promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and >> that this president told better than anyone. >> >> I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half >> weeks. >> >> letters at charleskrauthammer.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 11:38:05 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:38:05 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Archives In-Reply-To: References: <5c154df70902060638o67df84bdjf47edb1f5568ff1b@mail.gmail.com> <498C57A9.8090007@effros.com> Message-ID: <498C676D.4050000@effros.com> Mike, I've had more trouble than success with all the archivers. People figure out how to game them, so they keep changing algorithms, and what worked 6 months ago, doesn't work today -- or you find they are spamming your list. The crude archive system built into Mailman is all I need. Sometimes Google sorts it properly, other times it doesn't. But what I really need to get out of it I can find within the system itself by sorting by Author, Subject, Date, or Thread, or by downloading the entire text and searching it with programs on my own computer. I don't need to use it that often, but when I do I find I always go back to the Mailman system. Also, new people (as Ed will tell you) never want to do any work at all. They will just ask the same question that you could find answered in the archives a dozen different times. Thanks, though, B. Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Bill, > > If you want to be able to search the archives, you need to add an > archiver to your list. For the R22, the archiver is nabble.com, > although they have become a bit strange to work with as they are > having growing pains at this time. Another is "The Mail Archive" at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Effros > *To:* SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 10:30 AM > *Subject:* [Swiftwater Gazette] Archives > > Dave, > > I knew this couldn't possibly be what you wanted to talk about, so > I tried going to the archives to find the beginning of the Dave > Bradley thread. That turned out to be more difficult than I thought. > > I want to make it easier, and will get to it when I can, which is > not now. > > This is just a test of this link to see if it gets us where I want > to go. > > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/ > > Bill Effros > List Administrator > > > > David Bradley wrote: >> Ed, nice to chat again. >> >> Is that really the "real" issue? Pretty far down my list. >> >> I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists. Maybe >> something to do with providing capital? The fact that a number of >> bankers (really the Boards that are at fault) were reckless in the >> pursuit of quarterly earnings makes them idiot capitalists... in >> hindsight. The fact that the SEC wasn't all over reserves and wasn't >> tracking with the piling up of derivatives and the like in my mind is >> criminal. >> >> If Obama selected Daschle and the others with knowledge that they had >> tax issues then he would be unethical and stupid for having done so. >> I don't think he's stupid. I think there are enough lapses in ethics >> in his past that I wouldn't hold him up as squeekly clean. That >> wasn't my criterion for selecting him, and remember, he wasn't my >> first choice. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Ed Kroposki wrote: >> >>> David, >>> >>> The real issue is you and the MSM calling them capitalist. Did they create >>> enduring value? Or were they con men like Bernie and Obama? >>> >>> Did Heny Ford create enduring value? >>> >>> How can you compare con men to capitalist? Real capitalist understand >>> creating value. Brad's sheet metal workers are creating real value. The >>> financial instruments that the big bankers and financers created, where is >>> the enduring value? >>> >>> Go back and reread Mike W.'s comments. "I have no problem with highly paid >>> talent; just they need to be talented at what they are being paid for." >>> >>> These were talented at slight of hand. That is not enduring value. And >>> their friends in Congress and the SEC let them perform their circus act. >>> Someone suggested replacing all members of the SEC. That would be a good >>> start as long as Obama did not choose them. Obama seems to have an >>> acceptance of cheaters. But then he is your man so that must be O.K? >>> >>> Ed K >>> Addendum: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of >>> blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of >>> miseries." Winston Churchill >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/04/09 >>> 08:24:00 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/fc016e62/attachment-0001.html From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 11:40:27 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:40:27 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People In-Reply-To: References: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> <498C646E.4030204@effros.com> Message-ID: <498C67FB.6060307@effros.com> Yeah, I watched part of the Carlin thing, also. That ending bit was beyond belief. Hard enough to write it, but then to deliver it! B. Michael D. Weisner wrote: > If something "scares the hell out of me" is it a good thing? Where does it > go? Where was it before? > > Please excuse me, I was watching the Twain Award presentation to Carlin last > night. I sure do miss George's language precision. > > Mike > > From: "Bill Effros" Friday, February 06, 2009 11:25 AM > >> Paul, >> >> Most people focus on the "can't fool all of the people..." part of that >> quote, but what has always bothered me the most was the "You can fool >> some of the people all of the time." part. That's true, too, and it >> just scares the hell out of me. >> >> B. >> >> >> >> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote: >> >>> You can fool some of the people all of the time. >>> You can fool all of the people some of the time. >>> But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. >>> Good article below. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> The Fierce Urgency of Pork >>> >>> By Charles Krauthammer >>> Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 >>> >>> >>> >>> "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." >>> >>> -- President Obama, Feb. 4. >>> >>> >>> >>> Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural >>> address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." >>> Until, >>> that is, you need fear to pass a bill. >>> >>> And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence >>> peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning >>> lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen >>> current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury >>> secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in >>> his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according >>> to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax >>> delinquent. >>> >>> The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more >>> than >>> taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal >>> isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. >>> But >>> what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that >>> amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. >>> >>> He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a >>> lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money >>> to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking >>> up the phone and peddling influence. >>> >>> At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been >>> working for years as a humble international civil servant earning >>> non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a >>> year >>> (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private >>> equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to >>> upend. >>> >>> And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the >>> appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He >>> inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the >>> House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just >>> bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. >>> >>> It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways >>> and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade >>> war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new >>> construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee >>> Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite >>> logically, no plans for new construction. >>> >>> It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal >>> rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are >>> suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate >>> job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions >>> that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office >>> says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than >>> the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that >>> Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. >>> >>> Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where >>> the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give >>> way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what >>> made >>> Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes >>> $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance. >>> >>> The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics >>> influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill >>> reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and >>> high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate >>> overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine >>> growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single >>> phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" >>> would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive. >>> >>> After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at >>> some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would >>> rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory >>> Obama >>> would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations >>> promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and >>> that this president told better than anyone. >>> >>> I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half >>> weeks. >>> >>> letters at charleskrauthammer.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/82b97f86/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 11:50:17 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:50:17 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The Fierce Urgency of Pork In-Reply-To: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> References: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> Message-ID: <498C6A49.7000308@gmail.com> Paul, Excellent article. There's probably only one guaranteed cure for this problem. If about 10 Million of us write a letter to the congress explaining that if this bailout legislation goes through, we will not be filing a tax return this year because we will not be a party to this unbelievable foolishness anymore. This "stimulus package" may just be the most short-sighted load of horse crap I have ever seen. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote: > You can fool some of the people all of the time. > You can fool all of the people some of the time. > But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. > Good article below. > > Paul > > The Fierce Urgency of Pork > > By Charles Krauthammer > Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 > > > > "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." > > -- President Obama, Feb. 4. > > > > Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural > address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." Until, > that is, you need fear to pass a bill. > > And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence > peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning > lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen > current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury > secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in > his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according > to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax > delinquent. > > The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more than > taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal > isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. But > what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that > amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. > > He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a > lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money > to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking > up the phone and peddling influence. > > At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been > working for years as a humble international civil servant earning > non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a year > (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private > equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to > upend. > > And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the > appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He > inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the > House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just > bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. > > It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways > and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade > war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new > construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee > Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite > logically, no plans for new construction. > > It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal > rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are > suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate > job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions > that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office > says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than > the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that > Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. > > Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where > the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give > way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what made > Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes > $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance. > > The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics > influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill > reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and > high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate > overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine > growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single > phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" > would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive. > > After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at > some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would > rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory Obama > would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations > promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and > that this president told better than anyone. > > I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half weeks. > > letters at charleskrauthammer.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From dwbrad at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 11:56:01 2009 From: dwbrad at gmail.com (David Bradley) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 08:56:01 -0800 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] David, a reply about your terminology In-Reply-To: <71C1DE7E98DE47A8B009BE5C78EA1574@YOURB88038198E> References: <71C1DE7E98DE47A8B009BE5C78EA1574@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <5c154df70902060856t2e5ed718we025d5216ecc8094@mail.gmail.com> Ed, you continue to completely mischaracterize who I am and what I believe, but that's expected. A banker who risks capital to help a small business get started or to help a struggling business make ends meet temporarily is absolutely part of what makes the capitalist system work. Saying all bankers are bad and are not vital members of the system would be like me saying all people from South Carolina are right wing zealots. I've been reading Joseph Schumpeter and writing about creative destruction. Dave On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > David, > > > > You said, "I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists." I > completely disagree. > > If someone is in a job that allocates capital that does not make him a > capitalist. That person could be a socialist and just filling a slot. His > attitudes though would be reflected in any allocation as demonstrated > in giving mortages to those who could not fuffill them. > > I have said it before that a sheriff is part of the system. As I posted > yesterday to Mike W. there was a failure of fiduciary duty on part of the > bankers and SEC. I agree that immediately all SEC members should be > replaced because of their failure of fiduciary duty to the public as members > of the commission that was responsible for fair dealings with securities. > > I say that any and all officers and board members of banks and other > financial institution involve breached their fiduciary duty to stockholders, > employees and the purchasers of the flimsy and fraudulent securities that > they created and sold. That would include Brad's man Sandy Weil, Henry > Paulson, etc. Put on a public trial and see what 12 citizens would think. > > But because you deal with capital does not make you a capitalist. Being a > capitalist is more than that. > > Here are some comments by Michael Fisher: "the true function of capitalists > and businessmen is to raise the productivity, and thus the real wages, of > manual labor by means of creating, coordinating, and improving the > efficiency of the division of labor." By continuously improving the > efficiency of labor, capitalists are responsible for raising (real) wages > and creating employment which serve to raise the standard of living of > everyone. Therefore, it is the capitalists that are the true humanitarians, > it is because of them that so much life-saving and labor-saving technology > is available to so many people." > > You are sold on MSM words and need to read more on economic theory. Find a > book or two by Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman's defended capitalism, > where he "stood up for the concept which Adam Smith identified so eloquently > in 'An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations'" That is > "individuals pursuing their personal interests. This concept, unfortunately, > has come to be known as "greed" by the Left." M Hittle > > This is the concept of capitalism is alluded to by Ayn Rand. "Ultimately, > "Atlas Shrugged" is a celebration of the entrepreneur, the risk taker and > the cultivator of wealth through human intellect. Critics dismissed the > novel as simple-minded, and even some of Rand's political admirers > complained that she lacked compassion. Yet one pertinent warning resounds > throughout the book: When profits and wealth and creativity are denigrated > in society, they start to disappear -- leaving everyone the poorer. " Wall > Street Journal on line > > Ed K > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 > 11:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- David Bradley +1.206.234.3977 dwbrad at gmail.com From mweisner at ebsmed.com Fri Feb 6 11:57:13 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:57:13 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People References: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> <498C646E.4030204@effros.com> <498C67FB.6060307@effros.com> Message-ID: <7ECD223E970B4674AA3CA944EB3607C0@ebsoffice> Bill, The bit is called "I'm a Modern Man" and it was in his last book (2004), "When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops". For your viewing pleasure, check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCR-w3AYOE Transcript (go ahead, try to read along with the master): "I'm a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I've been up linked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I'm new wave, but I'm old school and my inner child is outward bound. I'm a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I'm interactive, I'm hyperactive and from time to time I'm radioactive. Behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, ridin the wave, dodgin the bullet and pushin the envelope. I'm on-point, on-task, on-message and off drugs. I've got no need for coke and speed. I've got no urge to binge and purge. I'm in-the-moment, on-the-edge, over-the-top and under-the-radar. A high-concept, low-profile, medium-range ballistic missionary. A street-wise smart bomb. A top-gun bottom feeder. I wear power ties, I tell power lies, I take power naps and run victory laps. I'm a totally ongoing big-foot, slam-dunk, rainmaker with a pro-active outreach. A raging workaholic. A working rageaholic. Out of rehab and in denial! I've got a personal trainer, a personal shopper, a personal assistant and a personal agenda. You can't shut me up. You can't dumb me down because I'm tireless and I'm wireless, I'm an alpha male on beta-blockers. I'm a non-believer and an over-achiever, laid-back but fashion-forward. Up-front, down-home, low-rent, high-maintenance. Super-sized, long-lasting, high-definition, fast-acting, oven-ready and built-to-last! I'm a hands-on, foot-loose, knee-jerk head case pretty maturely post-traumatic and I've got a love-child that sends me hate mail. But, I'm feeling, I'm caring, I'm healing, I'm sharing-- a supportive, bonding, nurturing primary care-giver. My output is down, but my income is up. I took a short position on the long bond and my revenue stream has its own cash-flow. I read junk mail, I eat junk food, I buy junk bonds and I watch trash sports! I'm gender specific, capital intensive, user-friendly and lactose intolerant. I like rough sex. I like tough love. I use the "F" word in my emails and the software on my hard-drive is hardcore--no soft porn. I bought a microwave at a mini-mall; I bought a mini-van at a mega-store. I eat fast-food in the slow lane. I'm toll-free, bite-sized, ready-to-wear and I come in all sizes. A fully-equipped, factory-authorized, hospital-tested, clinically-proven, scientifically- formulated medical miracle. I've been pre-wash, pre-cooked, pre-heated, pre-screened, pre-approved, pre-packaged, post-dated, freeze-dried, double-wrapped, vacuum-packed and, I have an unlimited broadband capacity. I'm a rude dude, but I'm the real deal. Lean and mean! Cocked, locked and ready-to-rock. Rough, tough and hard to bluff. I take it slow, I go with the flow, I ride with the tide. I've got glide in my stride. Drivin and movin, sailin and spinin, jiving and groovin, wailin and winnin. I don't snooze, so I don't lose. I keep the pedal to the metal and the rubber on the road. I party hearty and lunch time is crunch time. I'm hangin in, there ain't no doubt and I'm hangin tough, over and out!" ~George Carlin, a comedic genius and poet extraodinaire ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Effros To: SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People Yeah, I watched part of the Carlin thing, also. That ending bit was beyond belief. Hard enough to write it, but then to deliver it! B. Michael D. Weisner wrote: If something "scares the hell out of me" is it a good thing? Where does it go? Where was it before? Please excuse me, I was watching the Twain Award presentation to Carlin last night. I sure do miss George's language precision. Mike From: "Bill Effros" Friday, February 06, 2009 11:25 AM Paul, Most people focus on the "can't fool all of the people..." part of that quote, but what has always bothered me the most was the "You can fool some of the people all of the time." part. That's true, too, and it just scares the hell out of me. B. pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote: You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Good article below. Paul The Fierce Urgency of Pork By Charles Krauthammer Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." -- President Obama, Feb. 4. Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." Until, that is, you need fear to pass a bill. And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax delinquent. The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more than taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. But what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking up the phone and peddling influence. At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been working for years as a humble international civil servant earning non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a year (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to upend. And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite logically, no plans for new construction. It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what made Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance. The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive. After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory Obama would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and that this president told better than anyone. I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half weeks. letters at charleskrauthammer.com _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/668e53dd/attachment-0001.html From tootle at charter.net Fri Feb 6 19:10:45 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:10:45 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Good Paying Job Message-ID: <4FCCA333A589453C9113744803DC928C@YOURB88038198E> If you question the truthfulness of this email, you may want to follow some of the links to see the press releases on this subject. Hard to believe this comes out after the election Hello!! - Is anyone in Chicago, Illinois awake?????? Illinois, the cradle of Liberal Democrat corruption!!! Another story you won't see on CNN..... Thursday, January 15, 2009 Chart: Michelle Obama's Salary Below you'll find a helpful chart and timeline explaining Michelle Obama's ultra-critical position at the University of Chicago Hospital (UCH), a position coincidentally created just after her husband's election to the Senate... and dissolved just minutes after she resigned to move into the White House. In 2002, Michelle Obama was hired by the University of Chicago Hospital as its "Executive Director for Community Affairs" at a salary of approximately $120,000. In January of 2005, Barack Obama was sworn in as a United States Senator. In March of 2005, Michelle Obama was promoted to "Vice President for Community and External Affairs" and her salary bumped nearly $200,000 (from $121,910 to $316,962). This position was "newly created" for Mrs. Obama. In February of 2006, Barack Obama requested a $1 million earmark for a new hospital pavilion at the University of Chicago. Effective 9 January 2009, Michelle Obama resigned her position at UCH. Effective 14 January 2009, Michelle Obama's VP position was eliminated, its functions absorbed into another executive's position. This prompted writer Don Rose to ask "[If] that work can be folded into another guy's, why was it separate in the first place?" Excellent question. Some roguish wags might speculate that a quid pro quo arrangement was in effect; pay-to-play as it were. But that seems highly unlikely given Barack Obama's high ethical standards *. * Ignoring, of course, Auchi, Ayers, Blagojevich, Jarrett, Jones, Rezko, etc. Sandwiched, of course, by Sen. Obama's $1M earmark to UCH. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/bba1eee2/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/bba1eee2/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 11:34:00 From tootle at charter.net Fri Feb 6 19:40:09 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:40:09 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bankers, etc. Message-ID: <54128C2B42C14B2EA790BCE25B454CA8@YOURB88038198E> David, You said, "A banker who risks capital to help a small business get started or to help a struggling business make ends meet temporarily is absolutely part of what makes the capitalist system work." But that does not make him a capitalist. No more than the manufacturing representative of the pace maker company who assist the Cardiologist is a doctor. "reading Joseph Schumpeter" is heavier than necessary. If you want to understand capitalism read 'The wealth of nations' by Adam Smith. Milton Friedman is easier to read, but if you read Atlas Shrugged a novel, you get a grasp. And by the way, I took several college courses from a guy who studied under/with and knew Schumpeter. He was an Austrian Jew who escaped in the late 1930's. And yes, Schumpeter anticipated the problems of success of capitalism. And the real issue to me is that humans achieve the greatest advancements for all mankind when they are free. Socialism is not freedom but rather a form of slavery to the state. The burden of socialism kills individual initiative. A capitalist is a very special achiever whose self advancement carries human advancement forward. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/6551b05f/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/6551b05f/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 11:34:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 19:51:52 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:51:52 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Good Paying Job In-Reply-To: <4FCCA333A589453C9113744803DC928C@YOURB88038198E> References: <4FCCA333A589453C9113744803DC928C@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d70902061651j69f88463uf68deebd7b1721d@mail.gmail.com> Ed, You're preaching to the choir. Anyone with half a brain knows Michelle Obama wasn't worth the salary she was hired in at (twice the going rate for public affairs officers) and certainly didn't do anything worth having her salary tripled. I'm beyond the point of forgiving people for being partisan. People are STUPID! You people voted for HopenChange - you got it! These folks can't put a Cabinet together with the simple common denominator of honest citizens who just paid their taxes. Thomas Jefferson said we need a revolution every so many years. I'm ready! I didn't bust my ass off for all these decades to hand it over to these crooks over a fortnight. Let the Tea Party begin! Brad On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 6:10 PM, tootle wrote: > > > > > > If you question the truthfulness of this email, you may want to follow some > of the links to see the press releases on this subject. > > > > Hard to believe this comes out after the election > > Hello!! - Is anyone in Chicago, Illinois awake?????? > > Illinois, the cradle of Liberal Democrat corruption!!! > > > > Another story you won't see on CNN..... > > > > Thursday, January 15, 2009 > > Chart: Michelle Obama's Salary > > Below you'll find a helpful chart and timeline explaining Michelle Obama's > ultra-critical position at the University of Chicago Hospital (UCH), a > position coincidentally created just after her husband's election to the > Senate... and dissolved just minutes after she resigned to move into the > White House. > > > In 2002, Michelle Obama was hired by the University of Chicago Hospital as > its "Executive Director for Community Affairs" at a salary of approximately > $120,000. > > In January of 2005, Barack Obama was sworn in as a United States Senator. > > In March of 2005, Michelle Obama was promoted to "Vice President for > Community and External Affairs" and her salary bumped nearly $200,000 (from > $121,910 to $316,962). This position was "newly created" for Mrs. Obama. > > In February of 2006, Barack Obama requested a $1 million earmark for a new > hospital pavilion at the University of Chicago. > > Effective 9 January 2009, Michelle Obama resigned her position at UCH. > > Effective 14 January 2009, Michelle Obama's VP position was eliminated, its > functions absorbed into another executive's position. This prompted writer > Don Rose to ask "[If] that work can be folded into another guy's, why was it > separate in the first place?" > > Excellent question. Some roguish wags might speculate that a quid pro quo > arrangement was in effect; pay-to-play as it were. But that seems highly > unlikely given Barack Obama's high ethical standards *. > > * Ignoring, of course, Auchi, Ayers, Blagojevich, Jarrett, Jones, Rezko, > etc. > > Sandwiched, of course, by Sen. Obama's $1M earmark to UCH. > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 > 11:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 20:08:45 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:08:45 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bankers, etc. In-Reply-To: <54128C2B42C14B2EA790BCE25B454CA8@YOURB88038198E> References: <54128C2B42C14B2EA790BCE25B454CA8@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d70902061708o51a21efatb45cb9687be29e5d@mail.gmail.com> Ed, My father wasn't a capitalist. He just wanted to raise his kids and live "the American Dream". He didn't succeed at 'raising his kids' but he did a pretty good job at his version of "The Dream". He taught me all I need to know about business in one statement; "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Pretty simple capitalistic statement that Gary and I struggle to live up to everyday. Works for us. Brad On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 6:40 PM, tootle wrote: > David, > > You said, "A banker who risks capital to help a small business get started > or to help a struggling business make ends meet temporarily is absolutely > part of what makes the capitalist system work." But that does not make him > a capitalist. No more than the manufacturing representative of the pace > maker company who assist the Cardiologist is a doctor. > > "reading Joseph Schumpeter" is heavier than necessary. If you want > to understand capitalism read 'The wealth of nations' by Adam > Smith. Milton Friedman is easier to read, but if you read Atlas Shrugged a > novel, you get a grasp. > > And by the way, I took several college courses from a guy who studied > under/with and knew Schumpeter. He was an Austrian Jew who escaped in the > late 1930's. > > And yes, Schumpeter anticipated the problems of success of capitalism. > > And the real issue to me is that humans achieve the greatest advancements > for all mankind when they are free. Socialism is not freedom but rather a > form of slavery to the state. The burden of socialism kills individual > initiative. > > A capitalist is a very special achiever whose self advancement carries human > advancement forward. > > Ed K > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 > 11:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 21:34:54 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:34:54 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Do Unto Others... In-Reply-To: <400985d70902061708o51a21efatb45cb9687be29e5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <54128C2B42C14B2EA790BCE25B454CA8@YOURB88038198E> <400985d70902061708o51a21efatb45cb9687be29e5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498CF34E.4010902@effros.com> Brad, Thought you might be interested to know the Jewish version of this statement is actually "Do nothing to others that is hateful to you." It is intended not to empower people to do things because they say they would want those things done to them, instead it is intended to restrain people from doing things they would not want done to them. It's not semantics, it's quite a fundamental difference...think about it for a while--most of us got this wrong from childhood on -- most Jews included. B. Brad Haslett wrote: > Ed, > > My father wasn't a capitalist. He just wanted to raise his kids and > live "the American Dream". He didn't succeed at 'raising his kids' > but he did a pretty good job at his version of "The Dream". He taught > me all I need to know about business in one statement; "Do unto > others as you would have them do unto you". > > Pretty simple capitalistic statement that Gary and I struggle to live > up to everyday. Works for us. > > Brad > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 6:40 PM, tootle wrote: > >> David, >> >> You said, "A banker who risks capital to help a small business get started >> or to help a struggling business make ends meet temporarily is absolutely >> part of what makes the capitalist system work." But that does not make him >> a capitalist. No more than the manufacturing representative of the pace >> maker company who assist the Cardiologist is a doctor. >> >> "reading Joseph Schumpeter" is heavier than necessary. If you want >> to understand capitalism read 'The wealth of nations' by Adam >> Smith. Milton Friedman is easier to read, but if you read Atlas Shrugged a >> novel, you get a grasp. >> >> And by the way, I took several college courses from a guy who studied >> under/with and knew Schumpeter. He was an Austrian Jew who escaped in the >> late 1930's. >> >> And yes, Schumpeter anticipated the problems of success of capitalism. >> >> And the real issue to me is that humans achieve the greatest advancements >> for all mankind when they are free. Socialism is not freedom but rather a >> form of slavery to the state. The burden of socialism kills individual >> initiative. >> >> A capitalist is a very special achiever whose self advancement carries human >> advancement forward. >> >> Ed K >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 >> 11:34:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/decd0da6/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Fri Feb 6 22:12:09 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:12:09 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People In-Reply-To: <7ECD223E970B4674AA3CA944EB3607C0@ebsoffice> References: <46006.216.109.207.84.1233937212.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> <498C646E.4030204@effros.com> <498C67FB.6060307@effros.com> <7ECD223E970B4674AA3CA944EB3607C0@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <498CFC09.6030006@effros.com> Thanks, Mike, I missed it on my TiVo. Now I can permanently file it. B. Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Bill, > > The bit is called "I'm a Modern Man" and it was in his last book > (2004), "When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops". For your viewing > pleasure, check out: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCR-w3AYOE > > > Transcript (go ahead, try to read along with the master): > "I'm a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A > diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is > anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I've been up linked and > downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of > downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I'm a high-tech > low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and > I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! > > I'm new wave, but I'm old school and my inner child is outward bound. > I'm a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice > activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my > database is in cyberspace, so I'm interactive, I'm hyperactive and > from time to time I'm radioactive. > > Behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, ridin the wave, dodgin the > bullet and pushin the envelope. I'm on-point, on-task, on-message and > off drugs. I've got no need for coke and speed. I've got no urge to > binge and purge. I'm in-the-moment, on-the-edge, over-the-top and > under-the-radar. A high-concept, low-profile, medium-range ballistic > missionary. A street-wise smart bomb. A top-gun bottom feeder. I wear > power ties, I tell power lies, I take power naps and run victory laps. > I'm a totally ongoing big-foot, slam-dunk, rainmaker with a pro-active > outreach. A raging workaholic. A working rageaholic. Out of rehab and > in denial! > > I've got a personal trainer, a personal shopper, a personal assistant > and a personal agenda. You can't shut me up. You can't dumb me down > because I'm tireless and I'm wireless, I'm an alpha male on beta-blockers. > > I'm a non-believer and an over-achiever, laid-back but > fashion-forward. Up-front, down-home, low-rent, high-maintenance. > Super-sized, long-lasting, high-definition, fast-acting, oven-ready > and built-to-last! I'm a hands-on, foot-loose, knee-jerk head case > pretty maturely post-traumatic and I've got a love-child that sends me > hate mail. > > But, I'm feeling, I'm caring, I'm healing, I'm sharing-- a supportive, > bonding, nurturing primary care-giver. My output is down, but my > income is up. I took a short position on the long bond and my revenue > stream has its own cash-flow. I read junk mail, I eat junk food, I buy > junk bonds and I watch trash sports! I'm gender specific, capital > intensive, user-friendly and lactose intolerant. > > I like rough sex. I like tough love. I use the "F" word in my emails > and the software on my hard-drive is hardcore--no soft porn. > > I bought a microwave at a mini-mall; I bought a mini-van at a > mega-store. I eat fast-food in the slow lane. I'm toll-free, > bite-sized, ready-to-wear and I come in all sizes. A fully-equipped, > factory-authorized, hospital-tested, clinically-proven, > scientifically- formulated medical miracle. I've been pre-wash, > pre-cooked, pre-heated, pre-screened, pre-approved, pre-packaged, > post-dated, freeze-dried, double-wrapped, vacuum-packed and, I have an > unlimited broadband capacity. > > I'm a rude dude, but I'm the real deal. Lean and mean! Cocked, locked > and ready-to-rock. Rough, tough and hard to bluff. I take it slow, I > go with the flow, I ride with the tide. I've got glide in my stride. > Drivin and movin, sailin and spinin, jiving and groovin, wailin and > winnin. I don't snooze, so I don't lose. I keep the pedal to the metal > and the rubber on the road. I party hearty and lunch time is crunch > time. I'm hangin in, there ain't no doubt and I'm hangin tough, over > and out!" > > ~George Carlin, a comedic genius and poet extraodinaire > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Effros > *To:* SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > > *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 11:40 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fooling People > > Yeah, > > I watched part of the Carlin thing, also. > > That ending bit was beyond belief. Hard enough to write it, but > then to deliver it! > > B. > > > > Michael D. Weisner wrote: >> If something "scares the hell out of me" is it a good thing? Where does it >> go? Where was it before? >> >> Please excuse me, I was watching the Twain Award presentation to Carlin last >> night. I sure do miss George's language precision. >> >> Mike >> >> From: "Bill Effros" Friday, February 06, 2009 11:25 AM >> >>> Paul, >>> >>> Most people focus on the "can't fool all of the people..." part of that >>> quote, but what has always bothered me the most was the "You can fool >>> some of the people all of the time." part. That's true, too, and it >>> just scares the hell out of me. >>> >>> B. >>> >>> >>> >>> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote: >>> >>>> You can fool some of the people all of the time. >>>> You can fool all of the people some of the time. >>>> But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. >>>> Good article below. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> The Fierce Urgency of Pork >>>> >>>> By Charles Krauthammer >>>> Friday, February 6, 2009; A17 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." >>>> >>>> -- President Obama, Feb. 4. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural >>>> address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." >>>> Until, >>>> that is, you need fear to pass a bill. >>>> >>>> And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence >>>> peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning >>>> lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen >>>> current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury >>>> secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in >>>> his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according >>>> to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax >>>> delinquent. >>>> >>>> The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more >>>> than >>>> taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal >>>> isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. >>>> But >>>> what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that >>>> amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years. >>>> >>>> He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a >>>> lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money >>>> to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking >>>> up the phone and peddling influence. >>>> >>>> At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been >>>> working for years as a humble international civil servant earning >>>> non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a >>>> year >>>> (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private >>>> equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to >>>> upend. >>>> >>>> And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the >>>> appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He >>>> inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the >>>> House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just >>>> bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination. >>>> >>>> It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways >>>> and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade >>>> war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new >>>> construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee >>>> Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite >>>> logically, no plans for new construction. >>>> >>>> It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal >>>> rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are >>>> suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate >>>> job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions >>>> that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office >>>> says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than >>>> the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that >>>> Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said. >>>> >>>> Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where >>>> the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give >>>> way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what >>>> made >>>> Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes >>>> $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance. >>>> >>>> The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics >>>> influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill >>>> reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and >>>> high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate >>>> overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine >>>> growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single >>>> phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" >>>> would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive. >>>> >>>> After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at >>>> some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would >>>> rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory >>>> Obama >>>> would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations >>>> promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and >>>> that this president told better than anyone. >>>> >>>> I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half >>>> weeks. >>>> >>>> letters at charleskrauthammer.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090206/12936408/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 07:28:45 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 06:28:45 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics and Pigs Message-ID: <400985d70902070428s3f122620jea5a3e652ac39694@mail.gmail.com> Here's an interesting parable I ran across in the morning reading - ......A professor in a large college had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the Professor noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back, and stretching as if his back hurt. The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist regime. In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked, 'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?' The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said this was no joke. 'You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity...... We are eyewitnesses to the largest generational theft act in the history of our nation. There's a good chance most of us will be dead before the gate is finally closed, or maybe not. The Germans were initially excited when Hitler started building autobahns. Chinese peasants loved Chairman Mao when he confiscated land from landowners. And we're excited about exactly what? Decisions have consequences. Any of you who have been involved in the process of big ticket capital expenditures know how the process works. For example, my wife works in the Operations Research department of my employer. When billions of dollars are spent for aircraft acquisitions it is only after months, sometimes years of number crunching. If an inexperienced MBA walked into a conference and proposed an idea without hard data that he or she could rigorously defend, they would be laughed out of the room if not fired. But, we're going to spend/borrow over a TRILLION dollars because we HOPE it does some good with very little debate. Forget history, forget economics. We're just going to do it! I've had the pleasure of meeting a number of elderly Chinese who left the United States in the early 50's because they believed in Hope and Change in their homeland. Twenty years later, after the universities were closed and they were working as farmers, they realized their error. You think I'm being too dramatic? Re-read the parable of the pigs. Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 07:53:58 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 06:53:58 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Flying Message-ID: <400985d70902070453k22816d58se4d9518fb2b554c7@mail.gmail.com> No matter what anyone says, it was one hell of job of "stick and rudder". There were lots of "heros" that day that go unmentioned - the First Officer, the flight attendants, the Air Traffic Controllers, the ferry boat pilots, the first responders, even the passengers for acting like adults. Only the geese behaved irresponsibly. Brad -------------------- 'Sullying' the Work of Commercial Pilots Everywhere Posted By Rand Simberg On February 7, 2009 @ 12:00 am In . Column2 04, . Positioning, US News | So the [1] cockpit tapes of the US Airways flight have come out, and the media renews its swoon over the calm, cool behavior of Captain Chesley B. Sullenberger as he landed his airplane in the Hudson River. Let me start by saying that my intent is in no way to criticize the pilot. He obviously did nothing worthy of criticism, and he should indeed be praised ? just not to this degree ? and I suspect that he is more than a little bemused and even embarrassed over the attention, which would be in keeping with the character that he has demonstrated so far. My criticism is of the media in its ongoing coverage of a man who ? when it comes down to it ? just did his job. And in their drooling adulation of him, they actually slander the thousands of pilots who, like Sully, do their jobs every day. So what is a hero? To me, it's someone who takes personal risks and perhaps even willingly sacrifices himself for others. While I think that Sullenberger did his job in an exemplary manner, there is a distinct difference between what he did before the plane came to rest in the river, and after. When he realized that his airplane was in trouble he had two choices: land the airplane safely or die. While Sullenberger had a responsibility as a pilot to save his passengers and people on the ground, he also knew that if he didn't land the plane safely, he ? being in the front of the aircraft ? would be the first to die. This is as it should be, because people wouldn't get on a plane if they thought that the pilot had less of a stake than them in flight safety. So clearly, it was in his own self-interest to land that airplane as gently as possible. However, once he did land he could have chosen have been one of the first to evacuate, but instead, he stayed aboard and made sure that all of his passengers were safe. That is where the heroism comes in. Nonetheless, Sullenberger was still doing what he was trained to do, and what his employers expected him of him. It would be nice to think that because he was a steely-eyed airplane man, only he could have landed that airplane safely and smoothly in the river. But it's not true. I'll bet that every other US Airways pilot thought to himself, "Good job, Sully, you did just what I would do." And not just the US Airways pilots, but every commercial pilot. And the vast majority of them would be right. Pilots don't like to think that luck rules their lives, but Sullenberger was lucky, in the sense that he had a place to set his airplane down relatively smoothly and safely after his engine failures. If the failure had occurred at a slightly lower altitude, he probably wouldn't have had the option of the Hudson River. His options might have been to hit an office building or a vacant lot (which may been a sandlot with kids playing ice hockey, and he might not have had time to discern that). But it's very dangerous to think that as long as people have ? as novelist Tom Wolfe noted ? "the right stuff," that all will be well, because sometimes things happen that are beyond the capability of even the best pilot. And while it sounds nice to say that "failure is not an option," the reality is that if the oxygen tank on Apollo XIII had exploded on the way back from the moon, the crew would have died, and there was nothing that anyone in Houston could have done about it. Sometimes it's just not enough to be a hero. And when failure is not an option, success gets pretty damned expensive, which is one of the reasons that space, as executed by NASA, remains unaffordable. But why does the press compare Sully to Lindbergh and Yeager, when the former was just doing his job, and the latter were taking deliberate risks to expand the envelope of flight? I think it's because the public isn't necessarily looking for heroes.They're desperate tojust find people who will at least do their job with integrity, as Captain Sullenberger did. When the public confidence in our future is currently at an all-time low; when our so-called leaders in Washington and New York have [2] shown themselves to be utterly incompetent and greedy, to find a man who prominently does his job, saving hundreds of people, is a rare shining beacon, a rock of integrity in a sea of corruption, and it suddenly becomes newsworthy. But when you salute Captain Sullenberger, think about the millions of other Americans who, despite the rot at the top of the system, continue to do their jobs just like him ? if less conspicuously ? and provide the promise of ultimate recovery. From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Feb 7 08:29:12 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:29:12 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros, a comment about your past comments on... Message-ID: Bill, I was researching some information that related to my comments to David B, and saw an interesting thread of Url's. So I started following them back and hit a blank screen. So I went to the last page that and took the essence of the thread and did a search using "Ask". I stay away from 'Google' as a first search. Now to your point, during the campaign last fall you commented more than once that 'stuff' disappeared off the web. Well this morning I found an illustration but the original post was in someones archives somewhere. I was following up on a thread about Obama being a deciple of Sol Alinsky. It referred to Alinsky's rules which was the immediate thread that I was backtracking. Here is a web page that I could only back into using "Ask" and could not find quickly (you may be able to find the original). That is I tried from several angles and could only immediately find in by using "Ask". But I did not spend a lot of time searching each element of the thread. http://www.ask.com/bar?q=alinsky+rules+for+radicals&page=1&qsrc=2352&zoom=Saul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Strategies%7CSaul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Quotes%7CSaul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Biography&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FWallStreet%2F8925%2Falinsky.htm The subject matter is just a summary of Alinsky's Rules so I as a matter of free speech I cannot see the reason for getting it off the Web. But I immediately thought of your experiences. Here is the material from the web page in the event that you cannot access it directly. I am just posting it as an illustration: Alinsky's Rules for Radicals By Craig Miyamoto, APR, Fellow PRSA (This is an expanded version of the 2000 Third Quarter issue of Public Relations Strategies, a quarterly publication of Miyamoto Strategic Counsel) To paraphrase some sage advice, "keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer." If your business or organization ever becomes a target of radical activists, it will be extremely helpful to know what strategies of attack will used against you. Short of having spies infiltrate their organization - a practice that is sure to be found out and exposed to your discredit - it would help to study their methods. Known as the "father of modern American radicalism," Saul D. Alinsky (1909-1972) developed strategies and tactics that take the enormous, unfocused emotional energy of grassroots groups and transform it into effective anti-government and anti-corporate activism. Activist organizations teach his ideas widely taught today as a set of model behaviors, and they use these principles to create an emotional commitment to victory - no matter what. Grassroots pressure on large organizations is reality, and there is every indication that it will grow. Because the conflicts manifest in high-profile public debate and often-panicked decision-making, studying Alinsky's rules will help organizations develop counteractive strategies that can level the playing field. Governments and corporations have inherent weaknesses. And, time and again, they repeat mistakes that other large organizations have made, even repeating their OWN mistakes. Alinsky's out-of-print book - "Rules for Radicals" - illustrates why opposition groups take on large organizations with utter glee, and why these governments and corporations fail to win. Large organizations have learned to stonewall and not empower activists. In other words, they try to ignore radical activists and are never as committed to victory as their opposition is committed to defeating them. Result? They are unprepared for the hailstorm of brutal tactics that severely damage their reputation and send them running with their tails between their legs. Some of these rules are ruthless, but they work. Here are the rules to be aware of: RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.) RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the "real" issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.) RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.) RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.) RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.) RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.) RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.) RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.) RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.) RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.) RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.) RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/2f435124/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/2f435124/attachment-0001.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 11:34:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 08:39:06 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 07:39:06 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Ponzi Economy Message-ID: <400985d70902070539j265eb199v1ffebe421e9e35f1@mail.gmail.com> Watch the video. http://tinyurl.com/c4qttg Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 08:48:41 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 07:48:41 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros, a comment about your past comments on... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400985d70902070548t627e6f41n276b87f9273702a1@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Someone should explain Rule # 11 to Senators Collins and Spector. The House GOP showed some strength and wisdom. The Senate? They are going to fly Kennedy, nearly dead, back from Florida for the vote. In all my years of watching the federal government "work", this is the most disgusting process I have ever witnessed. I will neither forgive nor forget (thank you Bill) any Republican that betrays us on this debacle. Brad On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Bill, > > I was researching some information that related to my comments to David B, > and saw an interesting thread of Url's. So I started following them back > and hit a blank screen. So I went to the last page that and took the > essence of the thread and did a search using "Ask". I stay away from > 'Google' as a first search. > > Now to your point, during the campaign last fall you commented more than > once that 'stuff' disappeared off the web. Well this morning I found an > illustration but the original post was in someones archives somewhere. > > I was following up on a thread about Obama being a deciple of Sol Alinsky. > It referred to Alinsky's rules which was the immediate thread that I was > backtracking. > > Here is a web page that I could only back into using "Ask" and could not > find quickly (you may be able to find the original). That is I tried from > several angles and could only immediately find in by using "Ask". But I did > not spend a lot of time searching each element of the thread. > > http://www.ask.com/bar?q=alinsky+rules+for+radicals&page=1&qsrc=2352&zoom=Saul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Strategies%7CSaul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Quotes%7CSaul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Biography&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FWallStreet%2F8925%2Falinsky.htm > > The subject matter is just a summary of Alinsky's Rules so I as a matter of > free speech I cannot see the reason for getting it off the Web. But I > immediately thought of your experiences. > > Here is the material from the web page in the event that you cannot access > it directly. I am just posting it as an illustration: > > > Alinsky's Rules for Radicals > > By Craig Miyamoto, APR, Fellow PRSA > > > > (This is an expanded version of the 2000 Third Quarter issue of Public > Relations Strategies, a quarterly publication of Miyamoto Strategic Counsel) > > > > To paraphrase some sage advice, "keep your friends close, keep your enemies > closer." If your business or organization ever becomes a target of radical > activists, it will be extremely helpful to know what strategies of attack > will used against you. Short of having spies infiltrate their organization - > a practice that is sure to be found out and exposed to your discredit - it > would help to study their methods. > > > > Known as the "father of modern American radicalism," Saul D. Alinsky > (1909-1972) developed strategies and tactics that take the enormous, > unfocused emotional energy of grassroots groups and transform it into > effective anti-government and anti-corporate activism. Activist > organizations teach his ideas widely taught today as a set of model > behaviors, and they use these principles to create an emotional commitment > to victory - no matter what. > > > > Grassroots pressure on large organizations is reality, and there is every > indication that it will grow. Because the conflicts manifest in high-profile > public debate and often-panicked decision-making, studying Alinsky's rules > will help organizations develop counteractive strategies that can level the > playing field. > > > > Governments and corporations have inherent weaknesses. And, time and again, > they repeat mistakes that other large organizations have made, even > repeating their OWN mistakes. Alinsky's out-of-print book - "Rules for > Radicals" - illustrates why opposition groups take on large organizations > with utter glee, and why these governments and corporations fail to win. > > > > Large organizations have learned to stonewall and not empower activists. In > other words, they try to ignore radical activists and are never as committed > to victory as their opposition is committed to defeating them. Result? They > are unprepared for the hailstorm of brutal tactics that severely damage > their reputation and send them running with their tails between their legs. > > > > Some of these rules are ruthless, but they work. Here are the rules to be > aware of: > > > > RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you > have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. "Have-Nots" > must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there > is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult > time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic > arguments.) > > > > RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in > confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. > (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the "real" > issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.) > > > > RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for > ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the > time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly > irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.) > > > > RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is > that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with > this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a > serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at > stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its > commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.) > > > > RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's > irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force > the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to > create anger and fear.) > > > > RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it > without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will > even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no > different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" activities, and > but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.) > > > > RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old > news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and > involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.) > > > > RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep > the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them > from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, > never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and > re-strategize.) > > > > RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." > Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. > (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case > scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The > upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, > creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The > possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.) > > > > RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and > become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your > side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this > tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in > the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form > of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.) > > > > RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." > Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to > the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of > the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to > hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, > they have to have a compromise solution.) > > > > RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut > off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after > people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is > cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 > 11:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Sat Feb 7 09:15:00 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 09:15:00 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] I just have to laugh at some of the emails that come in Message-ID: <790E5BC7A5E547FE80406CBD53076728@D9X7C761> Are there any idiots who will respond to these junk emails (see below)? Just take a look at some of the domains involved: sleetgulf.com or sleetjelly.com. To unsubscribe, just send a request to: Dataloot 3214 N University Ave., UT 84604. The truth in the email may be limited to the following phrase: "See For Yourself How Our System Has Changed Lives and Will Change Yours." Tracking the originating IP address of 207.29.231.241 is owned by NT Technology, Inc., Carson City, NV Some of us still remember the Carton Sheets infomercials of the 70s and 80s. It is this sort of get rich quick scheme that may have drained the value out of real estate. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlton Sheets" Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 5:48 AM Subject: 100% Free Real Estate Program. No Strings Attached. Can You Afford Free? For the 1st Time EVER, the Professional Education Institute? (PEI) is offering our proven Real Estate investing programs to you online absolutely FREE! Don't Put Off Your Dreams Any Longer! *There are no charges or hidden fees. *No Strings Attached! See For Yourself How Our System Has Changed Lives and Will Change Yours. http://sleetjelly.com/--umfzqheuz8s0xx-y This is an advertisement. To unsubscribe, visit here http://sleetjelly.com/mn0f88u2xgxxl62xxee or send a request to: 7020 High Grove Blvd., Burr Ridge, IL 60527 To unsubscribe, Click here http://sleetjelly.com/unsub/?id=??? Dataloot 3214 N University Ave., UT 84604 From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 09:16:33 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:16:33 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] David, a reply about your terminology In-Reply-To: <71C1DE7E98DE47A8B009BE5C78EA1574@YOURB88038198E> References: <71C1DE7E98DE47A8B009BE5C78EA1574@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d70902070616v53a2b3d0ld4695b763968d6f@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Here's another take on describing the various economic models. Brad ---------------- 21 Economic Models using Cows SOCIALISM You have 2 cows. You give one to your neighbor. COMMUNISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both and gives you some milk. FASCISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both and sells you some milk. NAZISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both and shoots you. BUREAUCRATISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both, shoots one, milks the other, and then throws the milk away... TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income. SURREALISM You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons. AN AMERICAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. Later, you hire a consultant to analyze why the cow has dropped dead. ENRON VENTURE CAPITALISM You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island Company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. You sell one cow to buy a new president of the United States , leaving you with nine cows. No balance sheet provided with the release. The public then buys your bull. A FRENCH CORPORATION You have two cows. You go on strike, organize a riot, and block the roads, because you want three cows. A JAPANESE CORPORATION You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create a clever cow cartoon image called 'Cowkimon' and market it worldwide. A GERMAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves. AN ITALIAN CORPORATION You have two cows, but you don't know where they are. You decide to have lunch. A RUSSIAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 2 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka. A SWISS CORPORATION You have 5000 cows. None of them belong to you. You charge the owners for storing them. A CHINESE CORPORATION You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them. You claim that you have full employment, and high bovine productivity. You arrest the newsman who reported the real situation. AN INDIAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You worship them. A BRITISH CORPORATION You have two cows. Both are mad. AN IRAQI CORPORATION Everyone thinks you have lots of cows. You tell them that you have none. No-one believes you, so they bomb you and invade your country. You still have no cows, but at least now you are part of a Democracy... AN AUSTRALIAN CORPORATION You have two cows. Business seems pretty good. You close the office and go for a few beers to celebrate. A NEW ZELAND CORPORATION You have two cows. The one on the left looks very attractive. On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > David, > > > > You said, "I think by any reasonable definition bankers are capitalists." I > completely disagree. > > If someone is in a job that allocates capital that does not make him a > capitalist. That person could be a socialist and just filling a slot. His > attitudes though would be reflected in any allocation as demonstrated > in giving mortages to those who could not fuffill them. > > I have said it before that a sheriff is part of the system. As I posted > yesterday to Mike W. there was a failure of fiduciary duty on part of the > bankers and SEC. I agree that immediately all SEC members should be > replaced because of their failure of fiduciary duty to the public as members > of the commission that was responsible for fair dealings with securities. > > I say that any and all officers and board members of banks and other > financial institution involve breached their fiduciary duty to stockholders, > employees and the purchasers of the flimsy and fraudulent securities that > they created and sold. That would include Brad's man Sandy Weil, Henry > Paulson, etc. Put on a public trial and see what 12 citizens would think. > > But because you deal with capital does not make you a capitalist. Being a > capitalist is more than that. > > Here are some comments by Michael Fisher: "the true function of capitalists > and businessmen is to raise the productivity, and thus the real wages, of > manual labor by means of creating, coordinating, and improving the > efficiency of the division of labor." By continuously improving the > efficiency of labor, capitalists are responsible for raising (real) wages > and creating employment which serve to raise the standard of living of > everyone. Therefore, it is the capitalists that are the true humanitarians, > it is because of them that so much life-saving and labor-saving technology > is available to so many people." > > You are sold on MSM words and need to read more on economic theory. Find a > book or two by Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman's defended capitalism, > where he "stood up for the concept which Adam Smith identified so eloquently > in 'An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations'" That is > "individuals pursuing their personal interests. This concept, unfortunately, > has come to be known as "greed" by the Left." M Hittle > > This is the concept of capitalism is alluded to by Ayn Rand. "Ultimately, > "Atlas Shrugged" is a celebration of the entrepreneur, the risk taker and > the cultivator of wealth through human intellect. Critics dismissed the > novel as simple-minded, and even some of Rand's political admirers > complained that she lacked compassion. Yet one pertinent warning resounds > throughout the book: When profits and wealth and creativity are denigrated > in society, they start to disappear -- leaving everyone the poorer. " Wall > Street Journal on line > > Ed K > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 > 11:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Sat Feb 7 08:46:01 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:46:01 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Flying References: <400985d70902070453k22816d58se4d9518fb2b554c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Brad, Capt Sullenberger stated that he was just doing what he was trained to do, using precise language to achieve the best outcome. The fact that he knew his options and had prepared for such actions many times, permitted him to increase his odds of landing with the greatest probability of success, in this case measured in lives not lost (as opposed to the press viewpoint of lives saved.) While I applaud his actions and cool execution of procedures to bring his rock to rest as safely as possible, I think that his walking the length of the plane to be certain there were no trapped passengers or crew was also part of his training. True heroes do not look for recognition for a job well done. I only wish more people would do their jobs to the best of their abilities. Let the press praise those who work hard to avoid the loss of jobs in a similar manner. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:53 AM No matter what anyone says, it was one hell of job of "stick and rudder". There were lots of "heros" that day that go unmentioned - the First Officer, the flight attendants, the Air Traffic Controllers, the ferry boat pilots, the first responders, even the passengers for acting like adults. Only the geese behaved irresponsibly. Brad -------------------- 'Sullying' the Work of Commercial Pilots Everywhere Posted By Rand Simberg On February 7, 2009 @ 12:00 am In . Column2 04, . Positioning, US News | So the [1] cockpit tapes of the US Airways flight have come out, and the media renews its swoon over the calm, cool behavior of Captain Chesley B. Sullenberger as he landed his airplane in the Hudson River. Let me start by saying that my intent is in no way to criticize the pilot. He obviously did nothing worthy of criticism, and he should indeed be praised ? just not to this degree ? and I suspect that he is more than a little bemused and even embarrassed over the attention, which would be in keeping with the character that he has demonstrated so far. My criticism is of the media in its ongoing coverage of a man who ? when it comes down to it ? just did his job. And in their drooling adulation of him, they actually slander the thousands of pilots who, like Sully, do their jobs every day. So what is a hero? To me, it's someone who takes personal risks and perhaps even willingly sacrifices himself for others. While I think that Sullenberger did his job in an exemplary manner, there is a distinct difference between what he did before the plane came to rest in the river, and after. When he realized that his airplane was in trouble he had two choices: land the airplane safely or die. While Sullenberger had a responsibility as a pilot to save his passengers and people on the ground, he also knew that if he didn't land the plane safely, he ? being in the front of the aircraft ? would be the first to die. This is as it should be, because people wouldn't get on a plane if they thought that the pilot had less of a stake than them in flight safety. So clearly, it was in his own self-interest to land that airplane as gently as possible. However, once he did land he could have chosen have been one of the first to evacuate, but instead, he stayed aboard and made sure that all of his passengers were safe. That is where the heroism comes in. Nonetheless, Sullenberger was still doing what he was trained to do, and what his employers expected him of him. It would be nice to think that because he was a steely-eyed airplane man, only he could have landed that airplane safely and smoothly in the river. But it's not true. I'll bet that every other US Airways pilot thought to himself, "Good job, Sully, you did just what I would do." And not just the US Airways pilots, but every commercial pilot. And the vast majority of them would be right. Pilots don't like to think that luck rules their lives, but Sullenberger was lucky, in the sense that he had a place to set his airplane down relatively smoothly and safely after his engine failures. If the failure had occurred at a slightly lower altitude, he probably wouldn't have had the option of the Hudson River. His options might have been to hit an office building or a vacant lot (which may been a sandlot with kids playing ice hockey, and he might not have had time to discern that). But it's very dangerous to think that as long as people have ? as novelist Tom Wolfe noted ? "the right stuff," that all will be well, because sometimes things happen that are beyond the capability of even the best pilot. And while it sounds nice to say that "failure is not an option," the reality is that if the oxygen tank on Apollo XIII had exploded on the way back from the moon, the crew would have died, and there was nothing that anyone in Houston could have done about it. Sometimes it's just not enough to be a hero. And when failure is not an option, success gets pretty damned expensive, which is one of the reasons that space, as executed by NASA, remains unaffordable. But why does the press compare Sully to Lindbergh and Yeager, when the former was just doing his job, and the latter were taking deliberate risks to expand the envelope of flight? I think it's because the public isn't necessarily looking for heroes.They're desperate tojust find people who will at least do their job with integrity, as Captain Sullenberger did. When the public confidence in our future is currently at an all-time low; when our so-called leaders in Washington and New York have [2] shown themselves to be utterly incompetent and greedy, to find a man who prominently does his job, saving hundreds of people, is a rare shining beacon, a rock of integrity in a sea of corruption, and it suddenly becomes newsworthy. But when you salute Captain Sullenberger, think about the millions of other Americans who, despite the rot at the top of the system, continue to do their jobs just like him ? if less conspicuously ? and provide the promise of ultimate recovery. _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 09:33:39 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:33:39 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Flying In-Reply-To: References: <400985d70902070453k22816d58se4d9518fb2b554c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902070633y74aa101t982093a09ae57b4a@mail.gmail.com> Mike, For a real tale of heroism, read the following story - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Flight_705 That feat (overcoming the hijacker) couldn't have been done in an AirBus. Jim rolled the airplane upside down to give Andy and Dave an opportunity to subdue the hijacker. An Airbus is "smarter" than the pilot and won't let you do that. The final analysis of US Air Flight 1549 will be an interesting read. Number one rolled back to 15% N1 which would indicate failure. Number two rolled back to 35% N1 which would imply it was still producing some thrust. Now the question is, did the engines really fail or did the "smart" airplane have goose guts on the engine inlet pressure probe that didn't allow the engines to respond to the pilots commands? We'll see. I'm pretty happy with my decision to stick with Boeing products. Brad On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > Capt Sullenberger stated that he was just doing what he was trained to do, > using precise language to achieve the best outcome. The fact that he knew > his options and had prepared for such actions many times, permitted him to > increase his odds of landing with the greatest probability of success, in > this case measured in lives not lost (as opposed to the press viewpoint of > lives saved.) While I applaud his actions and cool execution of procedures > to bring his rock to rest as safely as possible, I think that his walking > the length of the plane to be certain there were no trapped passengers or > crew was also part of his training. True heroes do not look for recognition > for a job well done. I only wish more people would do their jobs to the > best of their abilities. Let the press praise those who work hard to avoid > the loss of jobs in a similar manner. > > Mike > > > From: "Brad Haslett" Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:53 AM > No matter what anyone says, it was one hell of job of "stick and > rudder". There were lots of "heros" that day that go unmentioned - the > First Officer, the flight attendants, the Air Traffic Controllers, the > ferry boat pilots, the first responders, even the passengers for > acting like adults. Only the geese behaved irresponsibly. > > Brad > > -------------------- > > 'Sullying' the Work of Commercial Pilots Everywhere > > Posted By Rand Simberg On February 7, 2009 @ 12:00 am In . Column2 04, > . Positioning, US News | > > So the [1] cockpit tapes of the US Airways flight have come out, and > the media renews its swoon over the calm, cool behavior of Captain > Chesley B. Sullenberger as he landed his airplane in the Hudson River. > > Let me start by saying that my intent is in no way to criticize the > pilot. He obviously did nothing worthy of criticism, and he should > indeed be praised ? just not to this degree ? and I suspect that he is > more than a little bemused and even embarrassed over the attention, > which would be in keeping with the character that he has demonstrated > so far. > > My criticism is of the media in its ongoing coverage of a man who ? > when it comes down to it ? just did his job. And in their drooling > adulation of him, they actually slander the thousands of pilots who, > like Sully, do their jobs every day. > > So what is a hero? To me, it's someone who takes personal risks and > perhaps even willingly sacrifices himself for others. While I think > that Sullenberger did his job in an exemplary manner, there is a > distinct difference between what he did before the plane came to rest > in the river, and after. When he realized that his airplane was in > trouble he had two choices: land the airplane safely or die. While > Sullenberger had a responsibility as a pilot to save his passengers > and people on the ground, he also knew that if he didn't land the > plane safely, he ? being in the front of the aircraft ? would be the > first to die. This is as it should be, because people wouldn't get on > a plane if they thought that the pilot had less of a stake than them > in flight safety. So clearly, it was in his own self-interest to land > that airplane as gently as possible. However, once he did land he > could have chosen have been one of the first to evacuate, but instead, > he stayed aboard and made sure that all of his passengers were safe. > That is where the heroism comes in. > > Nonetheless, Sullenberger was still doing what he was trained to do, > and what his employers expected him of him. It would be nice to think > that because he was a steely-eyed airplane man, only he could have > landed that airplane safely and smoothly in the river. But it's not > true. I'll bet that every other US Airways pilot thought to himself, > "Good job, Sully, you did just what I would do." And not just the US > Airways pilots, but every commercial pilot. And the vast majority of > them would be right. > > Pilots don't like to think that luck rules their lives, but > Sullenberger was lucky, in the sense that he had a place to set his > airplane down relatively smoothly and safely after his engine > failures. If the failure had occurred at a slightly lower altitude, he > probably wouldn't have had the option of the Hudson River. His options > might have been to hit an office building or a vacant lot (which may > been a sandlot with kids playing ice hockey, and he might not have had > time to discern that). But it's very dangerous to think that as long > as people have ? as novelist Tom Wolfe noted ? "the right stuff," > that all will be well, because sometimes things happen that are beyond > the capability of even the best pilot. And while it sounds nice to say > that "failure is not an option," the reality is that if the oxygen > tank on Apollo XIII had exploded on the way back from the moon, the > crew would have died, and there was nothing that anyone in Houston > could have done about it. Sometimes it's just not enough to be a hero. > And when failure is not an option, success gets pretty damned > expensive, which is one of the reasons that space, as executed by > NASA, remains unaffordable. > > But why does the press compare Sully to Lindbergh and Yeager, when the > former was just doing his job, and the latter were taking deliberate > risks to expand the envelope of flight? I think it's because the > public isn't necessarily looking for heroes.They're desperate tojust > find people who will at least do their job with integrity, as Captain > Sullenberger did. When the public confidence in our future is > currently at an all-time low; when our so-called leaders in Washington > and New York have [2] shown themselves to be utterly incompetent and > greedy, to find a man who prominently does his job, saving hundreds of > people, is a rare shining beacon, a rock of integrity in a sea of > corruption, and it suddenly becomes newsworthy. But when you salute > Captain Sullenberger, think about the millions of other Americans who, > despite the rot at the top of the system, continue to do their jobs > just like him ? if less conspicuously ? and provide the promise of > ultimate recovery. > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Sat Feb 7 08:57:47 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:57:47 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] A Ponzi Economy References: <400985d70902070539j265eb199v1ffebe421e9e35f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Brad, Great discussion. Unfortunately, it may be too little too late and falling on deaf ears, for the most part. Economists looking back at the Great Depression have said that the government's actions to stimulate the economy such as the WPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration) actually prolonged the depression. Here we go again! The video discusses a period of inflation that will cause prices to spiral up making this depression/recession much more severe. Currently, I have seen just the opposite effect. As people have lost jobs or curbed spending, cars, houses, etc. prices have dropped precipitously. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Saturday, February 07, 2009 8:39 AM > Watch the video. > > http://tinyurl.com/c4qttg > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From bill at effros.com Sat Feb 7 10:02:02 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 10:02:02 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill Effros, a comment about your past comments on... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498DA26A.3060101@effros.com> Thanks, Ed, I use a program called "Info Select" to store both web addresses and web text I think I might want to use at some later point. It is an incredibly powerful data handler I have been using for probably 20 years. I can find anything back in an instant, and it hasn't lost anything in all the time I've been using it. I use a program called "Snagit" to capture graphics and web pages. It will store pixels, scroll down web pages, capture links, and convert graphics to text. I use the archiving system built into Mailman for email lists I am a member of. I found it did not pay to try to organize all the email I thought I MIGHT want to see at a later point, and that Mailman worked so well I could always find back what I wanted after the fact with less work than trying to organize everything before I knew exactly what I wanted to know. B. PS -- I didn't know Alinsky's rules were missing--I captured them while they were readily available. The Obama people in conjunction with Google have been systematically making things disappear. How early did you catch on to the Good Rev. Wright? I didn't know how much of his web site would be gone before I took the time to capture it all. I only got some of it. Can't blame Obama solely for this, though. Like most of Obama's tricks, the Bush people wrote the book--they just never realized how much the American public would let them get away with. It will catch up with all of them in time. I'm not the only one who's got this stuff, and as more of us start capturing it, the disappearing act will become less effective. PPS -- By posting text, links and graphics, to the Swiftwater Gazette, you put them in a place where everyone will always be able to find them. Everything posted to this list remains available to anyone looking. Ed Kroposki wrote: > Bill, > > I was researching some information that related to my comments to > David B, and saw an interesting thread of Url's. So I started > following them back and hit a blank screen. So I went to the last > page that and took the essence of the thread and did a search using > "Ask". I stay away from 'Google' as a first search. > > Now to your point, during the campaign last fall you commented more > than once that 'stuff' disappeared off the web. Well this morning I > found an illustration but the original post was in someones archives > somewhere. > > I was following up on a thread about Obama being a deciple of Sol > Alinsky. It referred to Alinsky's rules which was the immediate > thread that I was backtracking. > > Here is a web page that I could only back into using "Ask" and could > not find quickly (you may be able to find the original). That is I > tried from several angles and could only immediately find in by using > "Ask". But I did not spend a lot of time searching each element of > the thread. > > http://www.ask.com/bar?q=alinsky+rules+for+radicals&page=1&qsrc=2352&zoom=Saul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Strategies%7CSaul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Quotes%7CSaul+%3CKW%3EAlinsky%3C%2FKW%3E+Biography&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FWallStreet%2F8925%2Falinsky.htm > > > The subject matter is just a summary of Alinsky's Rules so I as a > matter of free speech I cannot see the reason for getting it off the > Web. But I immediately thought of your experiences. > > Here is the material from the web page in the event that you cannot > access it directly. I am just posting it as an illustration: > > > Alinsky's Rules for Radicals > > By Craig Miyamoto, APR, Fellow PRSA > > > > (This is an expanded version of the 2000 Third Quarter issue of Public > Relations Strategies, a quarterly publication of Miyamoto Strategic > Counsel) > > > > To paraphrase some sage advice, "keep your friends close, keep your > enemies closer." If your business or organization ever becomes a > target of radical activists, it will be extremely helpful to know what > strategies of attack will used against you. Short of having spies > infiltrate their organization - a practice that is sure to be found > out and exposed to your discredit - it would help to study their methods. > > > > Known as the "father of modern American radicalism," Saul D. Alinsky > (1909-1972) developed strategies and tactics that take the enormous, > unfocused emotional energy of grassroots groups and transform it into > effective anti-government and anti-corporate activism. Activist > organizations teach his ideas widely taught today as a set of model > behaviors, and they use these principles to create an emotional > commitment to victory - no matter what. > > > > Grassroots pressure on large organizations is reality, and there is > every indication that it will grow. Because the conflicts manifest in > high-profile public debate and often-panicked decision-making, > studying Alinsky's rules will help organizations develop counteractive > strategies that can level the playing field. > > > > Governments and corporations have inherent weaknesses. And, time and > again, they repeat mistakes that other large organizations have made, > even repeating their OWN mistakes. Alinsky's out-of-print book - > "Rules for Radicals" - illustrates why opposition groups take on large > organizations with utter glee, and why these governments and > corporations fail to win. > > > > Large organizations have learned to stonewall and not empower > activists. In other words, they try to ignore radical activists and > are never as committed to victory as their opposition is committed to > defeating them. Result? They are unprepared for the hailstorm of > brutal tactics that severely damage their reputation and send them > running with their tails between their legs. > > > > Some of these rules are ruthless, but they work. Here are the rules to > be aware of: > > > > RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks > you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. > "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two > things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and > corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and > usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.) > > > > RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in > confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of > anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address > the "real" issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have > no knowledge.) > > > > RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." > Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This > happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are > blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then > forced to address.) > > > > RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule > is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill > them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own > rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility > and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not > living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the > damage.) > > > > RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. > It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure > point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and > mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.) > > > > RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing > it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, > and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, > are no different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" > activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring > results.) > > > > RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become > old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited > and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.) > > > > RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things > to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one > approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, > attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance > to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.) > > > > RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." > Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any > activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a > worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the > activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend > enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the > direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind > and result in demoralization.) > > > > RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and > become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to > your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions > used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the > heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred > management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually > brought public sympathy to their side.) > > > > RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive > alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught > without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the > solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an > agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be > given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise > solution.) > > > > RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." > Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go > after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than > institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized > criticism and ridicule works > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/b8197742/attachment-0001.html From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Feb 7 11:04:43 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:04:43 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill, comments on Message-ID: Bill: I did not say his rules were missing. I said that particular commentators notes and summary are missing. It looks like only the first page is there. It fades away in mid sentence. This was just commentary and analysis. But if you search for it in a routine matter you get a message that 'page not found' or actual blank pages. Actually the original book appears to be available in the latest printing. Unexpected demand to printer? As to Rev. Wright, for some reason other than his famous remarks made me check his church's web site early, maybe before Obama announced his candidacy. I knew who W.E.B. Dubose was and was surprised to see his books as recommended readings of a church attended by a guy running for President. Sometimes later, maybe at time of Wright's remarks, I went to the web site and 'all' references to Dubose were gone. And I think that they took off a couple of other of their earlier recommend readings. I did not save a picture of the original web site. For Obama to say that he did not know of that stuff is most likely a lie. If he did not, then he is not even of average intelligence. As I said, I thought of your earlier experiences of stuff vanishing when I ran into blank pages on the web. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/aa28be9f/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/aa28be9f/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 02/05/09 11:34:00 From bill at effros.com Sat Feb 7 11:24:10 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:24:10 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Bill, comments on In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498DB5AA.70103@effros.com> Thanks, Ed, You saw the second generation of that web site, the toned down version of the first generation which was as incendiary as Wright's publicized comments. It is quite possible, and even likely, that Obama had no idea of what Wright was saying. Nobody ever asked him how many times he went to that church--I'll bet it wasn't many, or he would have gotten out of there just like Oprah. B. Ed Kroposki wrote: > Bill: > > I did not say his rules were missing. I said that particular > commentators notes and summary are missing. It looks like only the > first page is there. It fades away in mid sentence. This was just > commentary and analysis. But if you search for it in a routine matter > you get a message that 'page not found' or actual blank pages. > > Actually the original book appears to be available in the latest > printing. Unexpected demand to printer? > > As to Rev. Wright, for some reason other than his famous remarks made > me check his church's web site early, maybe before Obama announced his > candidacy. I knew who W.E.B. Dubose was and was surprised to see his > books as recommended readings of a church attended by a guy running > for President. Sometimes later, maybe at time of Wright's remarks, I > went to the web site and 'all' references to Dubose were gone. And I > think that they took off a couple of other of their earlier recommend > readings. I did not save a picture of the original web site. > > For Obama to say that he did not know of that stuff is most likely a > lie. If he did not, then he is not even of average intelligence. > > As I said, I thought of your earlier experiences of stuff vanishing > when I ran into blank pages on the web. > > Ed K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/7dee850b/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Sat Feb 7 12:06:33 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 12:06:33 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] New Members Message-ID: <498DBF99.3020001@effros.com> I have sent email to people across the political spectrum, including some power boaters, asking them to review the Swiftwater Gazette Archives, and inviting them to join this list if they feel they have the need to join in on a rant. If new names pop up, please try to behave for a few hours. B. From bill at effros.com Sat Feb 7 13:01:39 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 13:01:39 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii Message-ID: <498DCC83.8030303@effros.com> *Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii* Feb 7, 12:51 PM (ET) HONOLULU (AP) - officials say an attempt to pull free a 9,600-ton warship that ran aground off the coast of Honolulu has been unsuccessful. The Pacific Fleet says Navy tugboats and the salvage ship USS Salvor tried to tow the USS Port Royal at high tide early Saturday but the ship remained stuck. Navy spokeswoman Agnes T. Tauyan in Honolulu said the Navy plans to try again after removing fuel and water to lighten the $1 billion vessel. The 9,600-ton guided missile cruiser ran aground Thursday night on sandy, rocky bottom. The cause of the grounding and the extent of the damage to the ship remain under investigation. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/067208a8/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 13:52:43 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:52:43 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii In-Reply-To: <498DCC83.8030303@effros.com> References: <498DCC83.8030303@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902071052h277c3930lbea89d9b48fec3d5@mail.gmail.com> Bill, Ouch! That's going to leave a mark on someones career - probably a career end. Some days you're a hero and other days a goat. The difference is often minor details. Brad On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Bill Effros wrote: > > Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii > Feb 7, 12:51 PM (ET) > > HONOLULU (AP) - officials say an attempt to pull free a 9,600-ton warship > that ran aground off the coast of Honolulu has been unsuccessful. > > The Pacific Fleet says Navy tugboats and the salvage ship USS Salvor tried > to tow the USS Port Royal at high tide early Saturday but the ship remained > stuck. > > Navy spokeswoman Agnes T. Tauyan in Honolulu said the Navy plans to try > again after removing fuel and water to lighten the $1 billion vessel. > > The 9,600-ton guided missile cruiser ran aground Thursday night on sandy, > rocky bottom. > > The cause of the grounding and the extent of the damage to the ship remain > under investigation. > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From bill at effros.com Sat Feb 7 14:26:12 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:26:12 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii In-Reply-To: <400985d70902071052h277c3930lbea89d9b48fec3d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <498DCC83.8030303@effros.com> <400985d70902071052h277c3930lbea89d9b48fec3d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498DE054.5020800@effros.com> Looking out the window probably helps, too. That guy would have been on the beach if the sand bar hadn't stopped him. When pilots do this stuff they fly into mountains. Hard to explain to some people that you can't just set your course in the GPS and then blindly follow it. Now they have GPS in cars, too... B. Brad Haslett wrote: > Bill, > > Ouch! That's going to leave a mark on someones career - probably a > career end. > > Some days you're a hero and other days a goat. The difference is > often minor details. > > Brad > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Bill Effros wrote: > >> Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii >> Feb 7, 12:51 PM (ET) >> >> HONOLULU (AP) - officials say an attempt to pull free a 9,600-ton warship >> that ran aground off the coast of Honolulu has been unsuccessful. >> >> The Pacific Fleet says Navy tugboats and the salvage ship USS Salvor tried >> to tow the USS Port Royal at high tide early Saturday but the ship remained >> stuck. >> >> Navy spokeswoman Agnes T. Tauyan in Honolulu said the Navy plans to try >> again after removing fuel and water to lighten the $1 billion vessel. >> >> The 9,600-ton guided missile cruiser ran aground Thursday night on sandy, >> rocky bottom. >> >> The cause of the grounding and the extent of the damage to the ship remain >> under investigation. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/cba9498e/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Sat Feb 7 14:30:16 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:30:16 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii In-Reply-To: <400985d70902071052h277c3930lbea89d9b48fec3d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <498DCC83.8030303@effros.com> <400985d70902071052h277c3930lbea89d9b48fec3d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498DE148.1070400@effros.com> As usual, it just gets better: Navy unsuccessful in attempt to free warship that ran aground off Honolulu coast By Associated Press 2:16 PM EST, February 7, 2009 HONOLULU (AP) --- An attempt to pull a $1 billion warship free after it ran aground off the coast of Honolulu was unsuccessful Saturday, but the Navy planned to try again after lightening the vessel's weight. Navy tugboats and a salvage ship, the USS Salvor, tried to tow out the USS Port Royal at high tide early Saturday, but the guided missile cruiser remained stuck on the sandy, rocky bottom, said Pacific Fleet spokeswoman Agnes T. Tanyan. Navy officials now plan to remove the ship's fuel and water supplies in an effort to lighten the vessel and make it easier to refloat, she said. Tanyan said the time of the next attempt had not been determined. The crew remained on board. The 9,600-ton warship ran aground Thursday night about a half-mile offshore from Honolulu International Airport. It was on its first sea trials after finishing routine maintenance in dry dock. The ship, which is based at Pearl Harbor and has a crew of 320, got stuck as it was transferring shore-based officials, including a rear admiral, to a smaller boat to take them to shore. An oil-recovery vessel, the Clean Islands, was positioned behind the warship as a precaution but no oil leak had been detected, Coast Guard Lt. John Titchen said. The cause of the grounding and the extent of damage to the vessel were under investigation. Copyright 2009 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Brad Haslett wrote: > Bill, > > Ouch! That's going to leave a mark on someones career - probably a > career end. > > Some days you're a hero and other days a goat. The difference is > often minor details. > > Brad > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Bill Effros wrote: > >> Navy fails to free warship grounded at Hawaii >> Feb 7, 12:51 PM (ET) >> >> HONOLULU (AP) - officials say an attempt to pull free a 9,600-ton warship >> that ran aground off the coast of Honolulu has been unsuccessful. >> >> The Pacific Fleet says Navy tugboats and the salvage ship USS Salvor tried >> to tow the USS Port Royal at high tide early Saturday but the ship remained >> stuck. >> >> Navy spokeswoman Agnes T. Tauyan in Honolulu said the Navy plans to try >> again after removing fuel and water to lighten the $1 billion vessel. >> >> The 9,600-ton guided missile cruiser ran aground Thursday night on sandy, >> rocky bottom. >> >> The cause of the grounding and the extent of the damage to the ship remain >> under investigation. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/aa2f9101/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Sat Feb 7 14:55:54 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:55:54 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] New Members References: <498DBF99.3020001@effros.com> Message-ID: <01888B475144462B8A2BDF5BC1EF27FE@D9X7C761> OK, uncle Billy ... From: "Bill Effros" Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:06 PM >I have sent email to people across the political spectrum, including > some power boaters, asking them to review the Swiftwater Gazette > Archives, and inviting them to join this list if they feel they have the > need to join in on a rant. > > If new names pop up, please try to behave for a few hours. > > B. > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 17:04:49 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:04:49 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Hundreds Attend Global Warming Rally Message-ID: <400985d70902071404q39fd375fr1741cbe3ea82fa1@mail.gmail.com> Experts predict demise of rally attendees by March 2009. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/d1262147/attachment-0001.htm From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 17:10:07 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:10:07 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Fwd: Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest In-Reply-To: <393330.38739.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <393330.38739.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902071410w19cfff6m7d2ecc677abcec43@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: brad haslett Date: Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:09 PM Subject: Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest To: flybrad at gmail.com We'll try that again. Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1935 - Release Date: 2/4/2009 4:35 PM ________________________________ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1169 - Release Date: 12/3/2007 10:56 PM From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 17:14:22 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:14:22 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest In-Reply-To: <400985d70902071410w19cfff6m7d2ecc677abcec43@mail.gmail.com> References: <393330.38739.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <400985d70902071410w19cfff6m7d2ecc677abcec43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902071414q570c0672lc56af055333fcb69@mail.gmail.com> Never mind, training in progress. For some reason, a photo I saved on the desktop converts to a Google document file instead of a jpeg file and I can't figure out why. I can forward the original email from yahoo to gmail but can't forward from one gmail account to another gmail account. Oh well, we have dinner guests coming over that need harassing. It can wait. Brad On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: brad haslett > Date: Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:09 PM > Subject: Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest > To: flybrad at gmail.com > > > > > We'll try that again. > > > > > > Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1935 - Release Date: > 2/4/2009 4:35 PM > > ________________________________ > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1169 - Release Date: > 12/3/2007 10:56 PM > From ekroposki at charter.net Sat Feb 7 20:12:21 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:12:21 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] big zoom picture - Message-ID: Makes you feel like you are part of the audience... This is unreal. You have to be patient and wait for it to focus. 2009 Inauguration Photo - SUPER HI-DEF This is absolutely the BEST in 'high definition'..... Really amazing. Zoom in ('double-click' an area) ....and watch it focus. Then zoom some more... and wait for focus. What a surveillance tool this is. ! This picture was taken with a robotic camera and weighs in at 1,474 megapixel. (295 times the standard 5 megapixel camera) It was a Canon that pulled together over 200 individual shots. Each zoom in takes a second to focus ...and then you can see some amazing reactions. Bonus points if you find Yo-Yo Ma .... taking a picture with his iPhone. http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c Also look for overlaps between shots where there are some double images. Example: behind Obama is Bush and Cheney (in a wheelchair). Four rows behind Cheney is Aretha Franklin, who is superimposed with a guy with a beard who moved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/efcd4e0b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090207/efcd4e0b/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1939 - Release Date: 02/05/09 11:34:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 23:00:14 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:00:14 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] big zoom picture - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400985d70902072000m4964f855gf508d24ce15a927a@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Pretty neat stuff! Brad 2009/2/7 Ed Kroposki : > Makes you feel like you are part of the audience... > > > This is unreal. You have to be patient and wait for it to focus. > 2009 Inauguration Photo - SUPER HI-DEF > This is absolutely the BEST in 'high definition'..... Really amazing. > Zoom in ('double-click' an area) ....and watch it focus. > Then zoom some more... and wait for focus. > What a surveillance tool this is. ! > This picture was taken with a robotic camera and weighs in at 1,474 > megapixel. (295 times the standard 5 megapixel camera) > It was a Canon that pulled together over 200 individual shots. > Each zoom in takes a second to focus ...and then you can see some amazing > reactions. > Bonus points if you find Yo-Yo Ma .... taking a picture with his iPhone. > http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c > > > Also look for overlaps between shots where there are some double images. > Example: behind Obama is Bush and Cheney (in a wheelchair). Four rows > behind Cheney is Aretha Franklin, who is superimposed with a guy with a > beard who moved. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1939 - Release Date: 02/05/09 > 11:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 23:00:59 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:00:59 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Walking on Water Message-ID: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> February 07, 2009, 8:00 a.m. Obama, All at Sea It's the new president's mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. By Mark Steyn In the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne tried to break it gently to us: "No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water." Yeah, sure, no previous occupant of the White House has been able to walk on water?your Eisenhowers and Roosevelts, your Chester Arthurs and Grover Clevelands and whatnot. But Barack Obama didn't run as just another of those squaresville losers. He was gonna heal the planet, and lower the oceans. So, even if he couldn't walk on water, he should at least be able to paddle in it. "He is a community organizer like Jesus was," said Susan Sarandon, "and now we're a community and he can organize us." So how's that going? Jesus took a handful of loaves and two fish and fed 5,000 people. Barack wants to take a trillion pieces of pork and feed it to a handful of Democratic-party interest groups. Jesus picked twelve disciples. Barack seems to have gone more for one of those Dirty Dozen, caper-movie line-ups, where the mission is so perilous and so audacious that only the scuzziest lowlifes recruited from every waterfront dive have any chance of pulling it off. The ends justify the mean SOBs: "Indispensable" Tim Geithner, wanted in twelve jurisdictions for claiming his kid's summer camp as a business expense, is the only guy with the savvy to crack the code of the U.S. economy. Tom "Home, James!" Daschle is the ruthless backseat driver who can figure out how to steer the rusting gurney of U.S. health care through the corridors of power. Charles Bronson is the hardbitten psycho ex-con who can't go straight but knows how to turn around the Department of the Interior. And, of course, there's the lovable dough-faced shnook in the front office, Robert "Fall Guy" Gibbs. He didn't do nuthin' wrong, but, when seven nominees die in a grisly shootout with a Taxable Benefit Swat Team in the alley behind the Senate, he makes the mistake of looking sweaty and shifty while answering routine questions. A president doesn't have to be able to walk on water. But he does have to choose the right crew for the ship, especially if he's planning on spending most of his time at the captain's table schmoozing the celebrity guests with a lot of deep thoughts about "hope" and "change." Far worse than his cabinet picks was President Obama's decision to make the "stimulus" racket the all-but-sole priority of his first month, and then outsource the project to Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and Harry Reid. Appearing on The Rush Limbaugh Show last week, I got a little muddled over two adjoining newspaper clippings?one on the stimulus, the other on those octuplets in California?and for a brief moment the two stories converged. Everyone's hammering that mom?she's divorced, unemployed, living in a small house with parents who have a million bucks' worth of debt, and she's already got six kids. So she has in vitro fertilization to have eight more. But isn't that exactly what the Feds have done? Last fall, they gave birth to an $850 billion bailout they couldn't afford and didn't have enough time to keep an eye on, and now four months later they're going to do it all over again, but this time they want trillionuplets. Barney and Nancy represent the in vitro fertilization of the federal budget. And it's the taxpayers who'll get stuck with the diapers. Those supporters who were wary of touting Obama as the walk-on-water Messiah did their best to lower expectations by hailing him merely as the new FDR. You remember the old FDR?"We have nothing to fear but fear itself." Ha! With the new New Deal, we have everything to fear. As President Obama warned on Tuesday, "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe." If you're of those moonstruck Obammysoxers still driving around with the "HOPE, NOT FEAR" bumper stickers, please note that, due to an unfortunate proofreading error at the printing plant, certain nouns in that phrase may have been accidentally transposed. As it happens, the best way to ensure catastrophe is to "act now." It would be nice if the world could all prance along in regimented unison like the Radio City Changettes. But, alas, the foreigners made the mistake of actually reading the "stimulus" bill, and the protectionist measures buried on page 739 sub-section XII(d) ended, instantly, the Obama honeymoon overseas. The European Union has threatened a trade war. Up in Canada, provincial premiers called it "a march to insanity." Wait a minute: I thought the Obama era was meant to be the retreat from insanity, a blessed return to multilateral transnational harmony? As longtime readers will know, I'm all in favor of flipping the bird to the global community. But at least, when Rummy was doing his shtick about "Old Europe," he did it intentionally. To cheese off the foreigners entirely by accident before you've even had your first black-tie banquet is quite an accomplishment. Protectionism is serious business to the Continentals. Oh, to be sure, if the swaggering unilateralist Yank cowboy invades some Third World basket-case they'll seize on it as an opportunity for some cheap moral posturing. But in the end they don't much care one way or the other. Plunging the planet into global depression, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. The bloated non-stimulus and the under-taxed nominees are part of the same story. I'm with Tom Daschle: I understand why he had no desire to toss another six-figure sum into the great sucking maw of the federal treasury. Who knows better than a senator who's voted for every tax increase to cross his desk that all this dough is entirely wasted? Tom and Tim Geithner and Charlie Rangel and all the rest are right: They can do more good with the money than the United States government can. I only wish they followed the logic of their behavior and recognized that what works for them would also work for every other citizen. Instead, they insist that the sole solution to our woes is a record-setting, wasteful government-spending spree. Maybe it's time for President Obama to come out and give one of his big hopey-changey speeches. It's been a few weeks now, and I kinda miss them. You know?"We are the change we've been waiting for." "We have nothing to hope for but hope itself." "Ask not what your hope can change for you, ask what you can hope for your change." Etc. But I wonder if the old songs from last month's hit parade would play as well today. On Wednesday, Salon headlined a story on Obama: "The New Great Communicator . . . Isn't." Oh, dear. It's early yet, but the gulf between the rhetoric and the reality, between the audacity of hope and the reality of pork, yawns ever wider. Right now, it's the Obama mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. Some of us never expected him to walk on water. But we didn't think he'd be all at sea taking on quite so much of it after a mere two weeks. ? Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone. From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 23:40:51 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:40:51 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Walking on Water In-Reply-To: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498E6253.4030802@gmail.com> Brad, Great article. I was rolling on the floor laughing .... until it hit me .... all this is really happening ..... TO ME. It ain't possible for this to last more than 4 years ... is it?? Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > February 07, 2009, 8:00 a.m. > > Obama, All at Sea > It's the new president's mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. > > By Mark Steyn > > In the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne tried to break it gently to us: > "No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water." > > Yeah, sure, no previous occupant of the White House has been able to > walk on water?your Eisenhowers and Roosevelts, your Chester Arthurs > and Grover Clevelands and whatnot. But Barack Obama didn't run as just > another of those squaresville losers. He was gonna heal the planet, > and lower the oceans. So, even if he couldn't walk on water, he should > at least be able to paddle in it. "He is a community organizer like > Jesus was," said Susan Sarandon, "and now we're a community and he can > organize us." > > So how's that going? Jesus took a handful of loaves and two fish and > fed 5,000 people. Barack wants to take a trillion pieces of pork and > feed it to a handful of Democratic-party interest groups. Jesus picked > twelve disciples. Barack seems to have gone more for one of those > Dirty Dozen, caper-movie line-ups, where the mission is so perilous > and so audacious that only the scuzziest lowlifes recruited from every > waterfront dive have any chance of pulling it off. The ends justify > the mean SOBs: "Indispensable" Tim Geithner, wanted in twelve > jurisdictions for claiming his kid's summer camp as a business > expense, is the only guy with the savvy to crack the code of the U.S. > economy. Tom "Home, James!" Daschle is the ruthless backseat driver > who can figure out how to steer the rusting gurney of U.S. health care > through the corridors of power. Charles Bronson is the hardbitten > psycho ex-con who can't go straight but knows how to turn around the > Department of the Interior. > > And, of course, there's the lovable dough-faced shnook in the front > office, Robert "Fall Guy" Gibbs. He didn't do nuthin' wrong, but, when > seven nominees die in a grisly shootout with a Taxable Benefit Swat > Team in the alley behind the Senate, he makes the mistake of looking > sweaty and shifty while answering routine questions. > > A president doesn't have to be able to walk on water. But he does have > to choose the right crew for the ship, especially if he's planning on > spending most of his time at the captain's table schmoozing the > celebrity guests with a lot of deep thoughts about "hope" and > "change." Far worse than his cabinet picks was President Obama's > decision to make the "stimulus" racket the all-but-sole priority of > his first month, and then outsource the project to Nancy Pelosi, > Barney Frank, and Harry Reid. Appearing on The Rush Limbaugh Show last > week, I got a little muddled over two adjoining newspaper > clippings?one on the stimulus, the other on those octuplets in > California?and for a brief moment the two stories converged. > Everyone's hammering that mom?she's divorced, unemployed, living in a > small house with parents who have a million bucks' worth of debt, and > she's already got six kids. So she has in vitro fertilization to have > eight more. But isn't that exactly what the Feds have done? Last fall, > they gave birth to an $850 billion bailout they couldn't afford and > didn't have enough time to keep an eye on, and now four months later > they're going to do it all over again, but this time they want > trillionuplets. Barney and Nancy represent the in vitro fertilization > of the federal budget. And it's the taxpayers who'll get stuck with > the diapers. > > Those supporters who were wary of touting Obama as the walk-on-water > Messiah did their best to lower expectations by hailing him merely as > the new FDR. You remember the old FDR?"We have nothing to fear but > fear itself." Ha! With the new New Deal, we have everything to fear. > As President Obama warned on Tuesday, "A failure to act, and act now, > will turn crisis into a catastrophe." If you're of those moonstruck > Obammysoxers still driving around with the "HOPE, NOT FEAR" bumper > stickers, please note that, due to an unfortunate proofreading error > at the printing plant, certain nouns in that phrase may have been > accidentally transposed. > > As it happens, the best way to ensure catastrophe is to "act now." It > would be nice if the world could all prance along in regimented unison > like the Radio City Changettes. But, alas, the foreigners made the > mistake of actually reading the "stimulus" bill, and the protectionist > measures buried on page 739 sub-section XII(d) ended, instantly, the > Obama honeymoon overseas. The European Union has threatened a trade > war. Up in Canada, provincial premiers called it "a march to > insanity." Wait a minute: I thought the Obama era was meant to be the > retreat from insanity, a blessed return to multilateral transnational > harmony? > > As longtime readers will know, I'm all in favor of flipping the bird > to the global community. But at least, when Rummy was doing his shtick > about "Old Europe," he did it intentionally. To cheese off the > foreigners entirely by accident before you've even had your first > black-tie banquet is quite an accomplishment. Protectionism is serious > business to the Continentals. Oh, to be sure, if the swaggering > unilateralist Yank cowboy invades some Third World basket-case they'll > seize on it as an opportunity for some cheap moral posturing. But in > the end they don't much care one way or the other. Plunging the planet > into global depression, on the other hand, is an entirely different > matter. > > The bloated non-stimulus and the under-taxed nominees are part of the > same story. I'm with Tom Daschle: I understand why he had no desire to > toss another six-figure sum into the great sucking maw of the federal > treasury. Who knows better than a senator who's voted for every tax > increase to cross his desk that all this dough is entirely wasted? Tom > and Tim Geithner and Charlie Rangel and all the rest are right: They > can do more good with the money than the United States government can. > I only wish they followed the logic of their behavior and recognized > that what works for them would also work for every other citizen. > Instead, they insist that the sole solution to our woes is a > record-setting, wasteful government-spending spree. > > Maybe it's time for President Obama to come out and give one of his > big hopey-changey speeches. It's been a few weeks now, and I kinda > miss them. You know?"We are the change we've been waiting for." "We > have nothing to hope for but hope itself." "Ask not what your hope can > change for you, ask what you can hope for your change." Etc. > > But I wonder if the old songs from last month's hit parade would play > as well today. On Wednesday, Salon headlined a story on Obama: "The > New Great Communicator . . . Isn't." Oh, dear. It's early yet, but the > gulf between the rhetoric and the reality, between the audacity of > hope and the reality of pork, yawns ever wider. Right now, it's the > Obama mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. Some of us never > expected him to walk on water. But we didn't think he'd be all at sea > taking on quite so much of it after a mere two weeks. > > ? Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone. > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 23:43:15 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:43:15 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Global Warming Photo Link (because I'm too stupid to cut and paste) Message-ID: <400985d70902072043t42a568b9gaccef99ec4f868db@mail.gmail.com> I give up! Just go to the link. http://www.chesapeakeclimate.org/blog/?p=654 Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 23:57:02 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:57:02 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Walking on Water In-Reply-To: <498E6253.4030802@gmail.com> References: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> <498E6253.4030802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902072057l7bc0182fx3345b00fc014f780@mail.gmail.com> Rik, The first word on this was "I won". Then it was, "this is what people voted for". I didn't vote for it, did you? Part of me wants justice to be served and the Chicago Hangover with Blago and Friends ends the drama early, and then we get Biden? Next in line is Nancy! Good Grief Charley Brown! Will it last more than four years? That's a good question. I've always found it easier to step out of line and just go get what I need on my own (Sheep 101 school is a good place to learn that - other people call it college which is where sheep go to learn sheep 'networking'). I wish I could give you some sound advice about where to go hide until this silliness is over. Frankly, I'm clueless. If you find a safe harbor, please let me know. Brad On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Brad, > > Great article. I was rolling on the floor laughing .... until it hit me > .... all this is really happening ..... TO ME. > > It ain't possible for this to last more than 4 years ... is it?? > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> February 07, 2009, 8:00 a.m. >> >> Obama, All at Sea >> It's the new president's mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. >> >> By Mark Steyn >> >> In the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne tried to break it gently to us: >> "No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water." >> >> Yeah, sure, no previous occupant of the White House has been able to >> walk on water?your Eisenhowers and Roosevelts, your Chester Arthurs >> and Grover Clevelands and whatnot. But Barack Obama didn't run as just >> another of those squaresville losers. He was gonna heal the planet, >> and lower the oceans. So, even if he couldn't walk on water, he should >> at least be able to paddle in it. "He is a community organizer like >> Jesus was," said Susan Sarandon, "and now we're a community and he can >> organize us." >> >> So how's that going? Jesus took a handful of loaves and two fish and >> fed 5,000 people. Barack wants to take a trillion pieces of pork and >> feed it to a handful of Democratic-party interest groups. Jesus picked >> twelve disciples. Barack seems to have gone more for one of those >> Dirty Dozen, caper-movie line-ups, where the mission is so perilous >> and so audacious that only the scuzziest lowlifes recruited from every >> waterfront dive have any chance of pulling it off. The ends justify >> the mean SOBs: "Indispensable" Tim Geithner, wanted in twelve >> jurisdictions for claiming his kid's summer camp as a business >> expense, is the only guy with the savvy to crack the code of the U.S. >> economy. Tom "Home, James!" Daschle is the ruthless backseat driver >> who can figure out how to steer the rusting gurney of U.S. health care >> through the corridors of power. Charles Bronson is the hardbitten >> psycho ex-con who can't go straight but knows how to turn around the >> Department of the Interior. >> >> And, of course, there's the lovable dough-faced shnook in the front >> office, Robert "Fall Guy" Gibbs. He didn't do nuthin' wrong, but, when >> seven nominees die in a grisly shootout with a Taxable Benefit Swat >> Team in the alley behind the Senate, he makes the mistake of looking >> sweaty and shifty while answering routine questions. >> >> A president doesn't have to be able to walk on water. But he does have >> to choose the right crew for the ship, especially if he's planning on >> spending most of his time at the captain's table schmoozing the >> celebrity guests with a lot of deep thoughts about "hope" and >> "change." Far worse than his cabinet picks was President Obama's >> decision to make the "stimulus" racket the all-but-sole priority of >> his first month, and then outsource the project to Nancy Pelosi, >> Barney Frank, and Harry Reid. Appearing on The Rush Limbaugh Show last >> week, I got a little muddled over two adjoining newspaper >> clippings?one on the stimulus, the other on those octuplets in >> California?and for a brief moment the two stories converged. >> Everyone's hammering that mom?she's divorced, unemployed, living in a >> small house with parents who have a million bucks' worth of debt, and >> she's already got six kids. So she has in vitro fertilization to have >> eight more. But isn't that exactly what the Feds have done? Last fall, >> they gave birth to an $850 billion bailout they couldn't afford and >> didn't have enough time to keep an eye on, and now four months later >> they're going to do it all over again, but this time they want >> trillionuplets. Barney and Nancy represent the in vitro fertilization >> of the federal budget. And it's the taxpayers who'll get stuck with >> the diapers. >> >> Those supporters who were wary of touting Obama as the walk-on-water >> Messiah did their best to lower expectations by hailing him merely as >> the new FDR. You remember the old FDR?"We have nothing to fear but >> fear itself." Ha! With the new New Deal, we have everything to fear. >> As President Obama warned on Tuesday, "A failure to act, and act now, >> will turn crisis into a catastrophe." If you're of those moonstruck >> Obammysoxers still driving around with the "HOPE, NOT FEAR" bumper >> stickers, please note that, due to an unfortunate proofreading error >> at the printing plant, certain nouns in that phrase may have been >> accidentally transposed. >> >> As it happens, the best way to ensure catastrophe is to "act now." It >> would be nice if the world could all prance along in regimented unison >> like the Radio City Changettes. But, alas, the foreigners made the >> mistake of actually reading the "stimulus" bill, and the protectionist >> measures buried on page 739 sub-section XII(d) ended, instantly, the >> Obama honeymoon overseas. The European Union has threatened a trade >> war. Up in Canada, provincial premiers called it "a march to >> insanity." Wait a minute: I thought the Obama era was meant to be the >> retreat from insanity, a blessed return to multilateral transnational >> harmony? >> >> As longtime readers will know, I'm all in favor of flipping the bird >> to the global community. But at least, when Rummy was doing his shtick >> about "Old Europe," he did it intentionally. To cheese off the >> foreigners entirely by accident before you've even had your first >> black-tie banquet is quite an accomplishment. Protectionism is serious >> business to the Continentals. Oh, to be sure, if the swaggering >> unilateralist Yank cowboy invades some Third World basket-case they'll >> seize on it as an opportunity for some cheap moral posturing. But in >> the end they don't much care one way or the other. Plunging the planet >> into global depression, on the other hand, is an entirely different >> matter. >> >> The bloated non-stimulus and the under-taxed nominees are part of the >> same story. I'm with Tom Daschle: I understand why he had no desire to >> toss another six-figure sum into the great sucking maw of the federal >> treasury. Who knows better than a senator who's voted for every tax >> increase to cross his desk that all this dough is entirely wasted? Tom >> and Tim Geithner and Charlie Rangel and all the rest are right: They >> can do more good with the money than the United States government can. >> I only wish they followed the logic of their behavior and recognized >> that what works for them would also work for every other citizen. >> Instead, they insist that the sole solution to our woes is a >> record-setting, wasteful government-spending spree. >> >> Maybe it's time for President Obama to come out and give one of his >> big hopey-changey speeches. It's been a few weeks now, and I kinda >> miss them. You know?"We are the change we've been waiting for." "We >> have nothing to hope for but hope itself." "Ask not what your hope can >> change for you, ask what you can hope for your change." Etc. >> >> But I wonder if the old songs from last month's hit parade would play >> as well today. On Wednesday, Salon headlined a story on Obama: "The >> New Great Communicator . . . Isn't." Oh, dear. It's early yet, but the >> gulf between the rhetoric and the reality, between the audacity of >> hope and the reality of pork, yawns ever wider. Right now, it's the >> Obama mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. Some of us never >> expected him to walk on water. But we didn't think he'd be all at sea >> taking on quite so much of it after a mere two weeks. >> >> ? Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 00:16:44 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:16:44 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Walking on Water In-Reply-To: <400985d70902072057l7bc0182fx3345b00fc014f780@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> <498E6253.4030802@gmail.com> <400985d70902072057l7bc0182fx3345b00fc014f780@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498E6ABC.9060507@gmail.com> Brad, IF things had worked out differently (for Sandy), we would probably have been or at least on the way to, somewhere (anywhere) "offshore" by now. As it is, I'm probably gonna' get used to holding on to my ankles for a while. I really shouldn't whine too loud, 'cause I know I'm in better shape than most. But MAN it is hard to imagine how so many people could be so naive. The only change I'm seeing is the same old shit but three times as much of it. If he keeps this stuff up, the mid-term election should be a dandy. He should have us pretty much buried in shit by then. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, > > The first word on this was "I won". Then it was, "this is what people > voted for". I didn't vote for it, did you? Part of me wants justice > to be served and the Chicago Hangover with Blago and Friends ends the > drama early, and then we get Biden? Next in line is Nancy! Good Grief > Charley Brown! Will it last more than four years? That's a good > question. I've always found it easier to step out of line and just go > get what I need on my own (Sheep 101 school is a good place to learn > that - other people call it college which is where sheep go to learn > sheep 'networking'). I wish I could give you some sound advice about > where to go hide until this silliness is over. Frankly, I'm clueless. > If you find a safe harbor, please let me know. > > Brad > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Brad, >> >> Great article. I was rolling on the floor laughing .... until it hit me >> .... all this is really happening ..... TO ME. >> >> It ain't possible for this to last more than 4 years ... is it?? >> >> Rik >> >> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >> Joel, mount hope, USA >> >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> February 07, 2009, 8:00 a.m. >>> >>> Obama, All at Sea >>> It's the new president's mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. >>> >>> By Mark Steyn >>> >>> In the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne tried to break it gently to us: >>> "No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water." >>> >>> Yeah, sure, no previous occupant of the White House has been able to >>> walk on water?your Eisenhowers and Roosevelts, your Chester Arthurs >>> and Grover Clevelands and whatnot. But Barack Obama didn't run as just >>> another of those squaresville losers. He was gonna heal the planet, >>> and lower the oceans. So, even if he couldn't walk on water, he should >>> at least be able to paddle in it. "He is a community organizer like >>> Jesus was," said Susan Sarandon, "and now we're a community and he can >>> organize us." >>> >>> So how's that going? Jesus took a handful of loaves and two fish and >>> fed 5,000 people. Barack wants to take a trillion pieces of pork and >>> feed it to a handful of Democratic-party interest groups. Jesus picked >>> twelve disciples. Barack seems to have gone more for one of those >>> Dirty Dozen, caper-movie line-ups, where the mission is so perilous >>> and so audacious that only the scuzziest lowlifes recruited from every >>> waterfront dive have any chance of pulling it off. The ends justify >>> the mean SOBs: "Indispensable" Tim Geithner, wanted in twelve >>> jurisdictions for claiming his kid's summer camp as a business >>> expense, is the only guy with the savvy to crack the code of the U.S. >>> economy. Tom "Home, James!" Daschle is the ruthless backseat driver >>> who can figure out how to steer the rusting gurney of U.S. health care >>> through the corridors of power. Charles Bronson is the hardbitten >>> psycho ex-con who can't go straight but knows how to turn around the >>> Department of the Interior. >>> >>> And, of course, there's the lovable dough-faced shnook in the front >>> office, Robert "Fall Guy" Gibbs. He didn't do nuthin' wrong, but, when >>> seven nominees die in a grisly shootout with a Taxable Benefit Swat >>> Team in the alley behind the Senate, he makes the mistake of looking >>> sweaty and shifty while answering routine questions. >>> >>> A president doesn't have to be able to walk on water. But he does have >>> to choose the right crew for the ship, especially if he's planning on >>> spending most of his time at the captain's table schmoozing the >>> celebrity guests with a lot of deep thoughts about "hope" and >>> "change." Far worse than his cabinet picks was President Obama's >>> decision to make the "stimulus" racket the all-but-sole priority of >>> his first month, and then outsource the project to Nancy Pelosi, >>> Barney Frank, and Harry Reid. Appearing on The Rush Limbaugh Show last >>> week, I got a little muddled over two adjoining newspaper >>> clippings?one on the stimulus, the other on those octuplets in >>> California?and for a brief moment the two stories converged. >>> Everyone's hammering that mom?she's divorced, unemployed, living in a >>> small house with parents who have a million bucks' worth of debt, and >>> she's already got six kids. So she has in vitro fertilization to have >>> eight more. But isn't that exactly what the Feds have done? Last fall, >>> they gave birth to an $850 billion bailout they couldn't afford and >>> didn't have enough time to keep an eye on, and now four months later >>> they're going to do it all over again, but this time they want >>> trillionuplets. Barney and Nancy represent the in vitro fertilization >>> of the federal budget. And it's the taxpayers who'll get stuck with >>> the diapers. >>> >>> Those supporters who were wary of touting Obama as the walk-on-water >>> Messiah did their best to lower expectations by hailing him merely as >>> the new FDR. You remember the old FDR?"We have nothing to fear but >>> fear itself." Ha! With the new New Deal, we have everything to fear. >>> As President Obama warned on Tuesday, "A failure to act, and act now, >>> will turn crisis into a catastrophe." If you're of those moonstruck >>> Obammysoxers still driving around with the "HOPE, NOT FEAR" bumper >>> stickers, please note that, due to an unfortunate proofreading error >>> at the printing plant, certain nouns in that phrase may have been >>> accidentally transposed. >>> >>> As it happens, the best way to ensure catastrophe is to "act now." It >>> would be nice if the world could all prance along in regimented unison >>> like the Radio City Changettes. But, alas, the foreigners made the >>> mistake of actually reading the "stimulus" bill, and the protectionist >>> measures buried on page 739 sub-section XII(d) ended, instantly, the >>> Obama honeymoon overseas. The European Union has threatened a trade >>> war. Up in Canada, provincial premiers called it "a march to >>> insanity." Wait a minute: I thought the Obama era was meant to be the >>> retreat from insanity, a blessed return to multilateral transnational >>> harmony? >>> >>> As longtime readers will know, I'm all in favor of flipping the bird >>> to the global community. But at least, when Rummy was doing his shtick >>> about "Old Europe," he did it intentionally. To cheese off the >>> foreigners entirely by accident before you've even had your first >>> black-tie banquet is quite an accomplishment. Protectionism is serious >>> business to the Continentals. Oh, to be sure, if the swaggering >>> unilateralist Yank cowboy invades some Third World basket-case they'll >>> seize on it as an opportunity for some cheap moral posturing. But in >>> the end they don't much care one way or the other. Plunging the planet >>> into global depression, on the other hand, is an entirely different >>> matter. >>> >>> The bloated non-stimulus and the under-taxed nominees are part of the >>> same story. I'm with Tom Daschle: I understand why he had no desire to >>> toss another six-figure sum into the great sucking maw of the federal >>> treasury. Who knows better than a senator who's voted for every tax >>> increase to cross his desk that all this dough is entirely wasted? Tom >>> and Tim Geithner and Charlie Rangel and all the rest are right: They >>> can do more good with the money than the United States government can. >>> I only wish they followed the logic of their behavior and recognized >>> that what works for them would also work for every other citizen. >>> Instead, they insist that the sole solution to our woes is a >>> record-setting, wasteful government-spending spree. >>> >>> Maybe it's time for President Obama to come out and give one of his >>> big hopey-changey speeches. It's been a few weeks now, and I kinda >>> miss them. You know?"We are the change we've been waiting for." "We >>> have nothing to hope for but hope itself." "Ask not what your hope can >>> change for you, ask what you can hope for your change." Etc. >>> >>> But I wonder if the old songs from last month's hit parade would play >>> as well today. On Wednesday, Salon headlined a story on Obama: "The >>> New Great Communicator . . . Isn't." Oh, dear. It's early yet, but the >>> gulf between the rhetoric and the reality, between the audacity of >>> hope and the reality of pork, yawns ever wider. Right now, it's the >>> Obama mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. Some of us never >>> expected him to walk on water. But we didn't think he'd be all at sea >>> taking on quite so much of it after a mere two weeks. >>> >>> ? Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 00:39:27 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 23:39:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Walking on Water In-Reply-To: <498E6ABC.9060507@gmail.com> References: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> <498E6253.4030802@gmail.com> <400985d70902072057l7bc0182fx3345b00fc014f780@mail.gmail.com> <498E6ABC.9060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902072139h15fd7fdbjbbb3290482ccdf5d@mail.gmail.com> Rik, Funny you mention that, Fan and I have had that conversation many times in the last several months. For us, the choice would be obvious, we own two apartments in Beijing that are paid for. She'd find a job doing something and I could teach for Boeing under contract, or just fly for an Asian carrier with brand new equipment. But, DAMN IT, I'm an American and I want to live in the United States. I want to be near my youngest son in the US Coast Guard and my oldest son working on his second degree (this one in Construction Management and paid for on his nickel). I love listening to Cora recite the Pledge of Allegiance first thing upon wakening because it will be the first thing she does when she gets to school. The bastards are not going to wear me down. Read what Ed posted earlier in the day about "Rules for Radicals". You can get a feel about where this is going and the tactics being used. As Sun Tzu said in "Art of War", know your enemy. I don't need a savior. I'm perfectly capable of screwing-up my own life on my own and I don't need other peoples borrowed money to do it! Here's to personal responsibility and common sense! We are not alone. Are we? Brad On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Brad, > > IF things had worked out differently (for Sandy), we would probably have > been or at least on the way to, somewhere (anywhere) "offshore" by now. > As it is, I'm probably gonna' get used to holding on to my ankles for a > while. > > I really shouldn't whine too loud, 'cause I know I'm in better shape > than most. But MAN it is hard to imagine how so many people could be so > naive. The only change I'm seeing is the same old shit but three times > as much of it. > > If he keeps this stuff up, the mid-term election should be a dandy. He > should have us pretty much buried in shit by then. > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Rik, >> >> The first word on this was "I won". Then it was, "this is what people >> voted for". I didn't vote for it, did you? Part of me wants justice >> to be served and the Chicago Hangover with Blago and Friends ends the >> drama early, and then we get Biden? Next in line is Nancy! Good Grief >> Charley Brown! Will it last more than four years? That's a good >> question. I've always found it easier to step out of line and just go >> get what I need on my own (Sheep 101 school is a good place to learn >> that - other people call it college which is where sheep go to learn >> sheep 'networking'). I wish I could give you some sound advice about >> where to go hide until this silliness is over. Frankly, I'm clueless. >> If you find a safe harbor, please let me know. >> >> Brad >> >> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> >>> Brad, >>> >>> Great article. I was rolling on the floor laughing .... until it hit me >>> .... all this is really happening ..... TO ME. >>> >>> It ain't possible for this to last more than 4 years ... is it?? >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >>>> February 07, 2009, 8:00 a.m. >>>> >>>> Obama, All at Sea >>>> It's the new president's mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. >>>> >>>> By Mark Steyn >>>> >>>> In the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne tried to break it gently to us: >>>> "No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water." >>>> >>>> Yeah, sure, no previous occupant of the White House has been able to >>>> walk on water?your Eisenhowers and Roosevelts, your Chester Arthurs >>>> and Grover Clevelands and whatnot. But Barack Obama didn't run as just >>>> another of those squaresville losers. He was gonna heal the planet, >>>> and lower the oceans. So, even if he couldn't walk on water, he should >>>> at least be able to paddle in it. "He is a community organizer like >>>> Jesus was," said Susan Sarandon, "and now we're a community and he can >>>> organize us." >>>> >>>> So how's that going? Jesus took a handful of loaves and two fish and >>>> fed 5,000 people. Barack wants to take a trillion pieces of pork and >>>> feed it to a handful of Democratic-party interest groups. Jesus picked >>>> twelve disciples. Barack seems to have gone more for one of those >>>> Dirty Dozen, caper-movie line-ups, where the mission is so perilous >>>> and so audacious that only the scuzziest lowlifes recruited from every >>>> waterfront dive have any chance of pulling it off. The ends justify >>>> the mean SOBs: "Indispensable" Tim Geithner, wanted in twelve >>>> jurisdictions for claiming his kid's summer camp as a business >>>> expense, is the only guy with the savvy to crack the code of the U.S. >>>> economy. Tom "Home, James!" Daschle is the ruthless backseat driver >>>> who can figure out how to steer the rusting gurney of U.S. health care >>>> through the corridors of power. Charles Bronson is the hardbitten >>>> psycho ex-con who can't go straight but knows how to turn around the >>>> Department of the Interior. >>>> >>>> And, of course, there's the lovable dough-faced shnook in the front >>>> office, Robert "Fall Guy" Gibbs. He didn't do nuthin' wrong, but, when >>>> seven nominees die in a grisly shootout with a Taxable Benefit Swat >>>> Team in the alley behind the Senate, he makes the mistake of looking >>>> sweaty and shifty while answering routine questions. >>>> >>>> A president doesn't have to be able to walk on water. But he does have >>>> to choose the right crew for the ship, especially if he's planning on >>>> spending most of his time at the captain's table schmoozing the >>>> celebrity guests with a lot of deep thoughts about "hope" and >>>> "change." Far worse than his cabinet picks was President Obama's >>>> decision to make the "stimulus" racket the all-but-sole priority of >>>> his first month, and then outsource the project to Nancy Pelosi, >>>> Barney Frank, and Harry Reid. Appearing on The Rush Limbaugh Show last >>>> week, I got a little muddled over two adjoining newspaper >>>> clippings?one on the stimulus, the other on those octuplets in >>>> California?and for a brief moment the two stories converged. >>>> Everyone's hammering that mom?she's divorced, unemployed, living in a >>>> small house with parents who have a million bucks' worth of debt, and >>>> she's already got six kids. So she has in vitro fertilization to have >>>> eight more. But isn't that exactly what the Feds have done? Last fall, >>>> they gave birth to an $850 billion bailout they couldn't afford and >>>> didn't have enough time to keep an eye on, and now four months later >>>> they're going to do it all over again, but this time they want >>>> trillionuplets. Barney and Nancy represent the in vitro fertilization >>>> of the federal budget. And it's the taxpayers who'll get stuck with >>>> the diapers. >>>> >>>> Those supporters who were wary of touting Obama as the walk-on-water >>>> Messiah did their best to lower expectations by hailing him merely as >>>> the new FDR. You remember the old FDR?"We have nothing to fear but >>>> fear itself." Ha! With the new New Deal, we have everything to fear. >>>> As President Obama warned on Tuesday, "A failure to act, and act now, >>>> will turn crisis into a catastrophe." If you're of those moonstruck >>>> Obammysoxers still driving around with the "HOPE, NOT FEAR" bumper >>>> stickers, please note that, due to an unfortunate proofreading error >>>> at the printing plant, certain nouns in that phrase may have been >>>> accidentally transposed. >>>> >>>> As it happens, the best way to ensure catastrophe is to "act now." It >>>> would be nice if the world could all prance along in regimented unison >>>> like the Radio City Changettes. But, alas, the foreigners made the >>>> mistake of actually reading the "stimulus" bill, and the protectionist >>>> measures buried on page 739 sub-section XII(d) ended, instantly, the >>>> Obama honeymoon overseas. The European Union has threatened a trade >>>> war. Up in Canada, provincial premiers called it "a march to >>>> insanity." Wait a minute: I thought the Obama era was meant to be the >>>> retreat from insanity, a blessed return to multilateral transnational >>>> harmony? >>>> >>>> As longtime readers will know, I'm all in favor of flipping the bird >>>> to the global community. But at least, when Rummy was doing his shtick >>>> about "Old Europe," he did it intentionally. To cheese off the >>>> foreigners entirely by accident before you've even had your first >>>> black-tie banquet is quite an accomplishment. Protectionism is serious >>>> business to the Continentals. Oh, to be sure, if the swaggering >>>> unilateralist Yank cowboy invades some Third World basket-case they'll >>>> seize on it as an opportunity for some cheap moral posturing. But in >>>> the end they don't much care one way or the other. Plunging the planet >>>> into global depression, on the other hand, is an entirely different >>>> matter. >>>> >>>> The bloated non-stimulus and the under-taxed nominees are part of the >>>> same story. I'm with Tom Daschle: I understand why he had no desire to >>>> toss another six-figure sum into the great sucking maw of the federal >>>> treasury. Who knows better than a senator who's voted for every tax >>>> increase to cross his desk that all this dough is entirely wasted? Tom >>>> and Tim Geithner and Charlie Rangel and all the rest are right: They >>>> can do more good with the money than the United States government can. >>>> I only wish they followed the logic of their behavior and recognized >>>> that what works for them would also work for every other citizen. >>>> Instead, they insist that the sole solution to our woes is a >>>> record-setting, wasteful government-spending spree. >>>> >>>> Maybe it's time for President Obama to come out and give one of his >>>> big hopey-changey speeches. It's been a few weeks now, and I kinda >>>> miss them. You know?"We are the change we've been waiting for." "We >>>> have nothing to hope for but hope itself." "Ask not what your hope can >>>> change for you, ask what you can hope for your change." Etc. >>>> >>>> But I wonder if the old songs from last month's hit parade would play >>>> as well today. On Wednesday, Salon headlined a story on Obama: "The >>>> New Great Communicator . . . Isn't." Oh, dear. It's early yet, but the >>>> gulf between the rhetoric and the reality, between the audacity of >>>> hope and the reality of pork, yawns ever wider. Right now, it's the >>>> Obama mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. Some of us never >>>> expected him to walk on water. But we didn't think he'd be all at sea >>>> taking on quite so much of it after a mere two weeks. >>>> >>>> ? Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 00:57:33 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:57:33 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Walking on Water In-Reply-To: <400985d70902072139h15fd7fdbjbbb3290482ccdf5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> <498E6253.4030802@gmail.com> <400985d70902072057l7bc0182fx3345b00fc014f780@mail.gmail.com> <498E6ABC.9060507@gmail.com> <400985d70902072139h15fd7fdbjbbb3290482ccdf5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498E744D.9070800@gmail.com> Brad, Well, there's you and me and I suppose Bill and Ed.... I kinda feel the same. I worked too damned hard and paid too much for a lot of years to watch it all go down the tubes so easily now. Part of me wants to stand and fight and part of me knows that if I stick my head up for too long the long arm of the gov't will reach out and cut it off. Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I, or you and I together are not near wealthy enough to buck the gov't for long. If we could get enough people in one spot to agree and stand up together. But it's tough to find anyone with the balls to stick his neck out. We both know, if you're gonna rebel openly, it'll get damned ugly before there's any improvement. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, > > Funny you mention that, Fan and I have had that conversation many > times in the last several months. For us, the choice would be obvious, > we own two apartments in Beijing that are paid for. She'd find a job > doing something and I could teach for Boeing under contract, or just > fly for an Asian carrier with brand new equipment. But, DAMN IT, I'm > an American and I want to live in the United States. I want to be near > my youngest son in the US Coast Guard and my oldest son working on his > second degree (this one in Construction Management and paid for on his > nickel). I love listening to Cora recite the Pledge of Allegiance > first thing upon wakening because it will be the first thing she does > when she gets to school. The bastards are not going to wear me down. > Read what Ed posted earlier in the day about "Rules for Radicals". You > can get a feel about where this is going and the tactics being used. > As Sun Tzu said in "Art of War", know your enemy. I don't need a > savior. I'm perfectly capable of screwing-up my own life on my own > and I don't need other peoples borrowed money to do it! Here's to > personal responsibility and common sense! We are not alone. Are we? > > Brad > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Brad, >> >> IF things had worked out differently (for Sandy), we would probably have >> been or at least on the way to, somewhere (anywhere) "offshore" by now. >> As it is, I'm probably gonna' get used to holding on to my ankles for a >> while. >> >> I really shouldn't whine too loud, 'cause I know I'm in better shape >> than most. But MAN it is hard to imagine how so many people could be so >> naive. The only change I'm seeing is the same old shit but three times >> as much of it. >> >> If he keeps this stuff up, the mid-term election should be a dandy. He >> should have us pretty much buried in shit by then. >> >> Rik >> >> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >> Joel, mount hope, USA >> >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Rik, >>> >>> The first word on this was "I won". Then it was, "this is what people >>> voted for". I didn't vote for it, did you? Part of me wants justice >>> to be served and the Chicago Hangover with Blago and Friends ends the >>> drama early, and then we get Biden? Next in line is Nancy! Good Grief >>> Charley Brown! Will it last more than four years? That's a good >>> question. I've always found it easier to step out of line and just go >>> get what I need on my own (Sheep 101 school is a good place to learn >>> that - other people call it college which is where sheep go to learn >>> sheep 'networking'). I wish I could give you some sound advice about >>> where to go hide until this silliness is over. Frankly, I'm clueless. >>> If you find a safe harbor, please let me know. >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Brad, >>>> >>>> Great article. I was rolling on the floor laughing .... until it hit me >>>> .... all this is really happening ..... TO ME. >>>> >>>> It ain't possible for this to last more than 4 years ... is it?? >>>> >>>> Rik >>>> >>>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >>>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> February 07, 2009, 8:00 a.m. >>>>> >>>>> Obama, All at Sea >>>>> It's the new president's mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. >>>>> >>>>> By Mark Steyn >>>>> >>>>> In the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne tried to break it gently to us: >>>>> "No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water." >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, sure, no previous occupant of the White House has been able to >>>>> walk on water?your Eisenhowers and Roosevelts, your Chester Arthurs >>>>> and Grover Clevelands and whatnot. But Barack Obama didn't run as just >>>>> another of those squaresville losers. He was gonna heal the planet, >>>>> and lower the oceans. So, even if he couldn't walk on water, he should >>>>> at least be able to paddle in it. "He is a community organizer like >>>>> Jesus was," said Susan Sarandon, "and now we're a community and he can >>>>> organize us." >>>>> >>>>> So how's that going? Jesus took a handful of loaves and two fish and >>>>> fed 5,000 people. Barack wants to take a trillion pieces of pork and >>>>> feed it to a handful of Democratic-party interest groups. Jesus picked >>>>> twelve disciples. Barack seems to have gone more for one of those >>>>> Dirty Dozen, caper-movie line-ups, where the mission is so perilous >>>>> and so audacious that only the scuzziest lowlifes recruited from every >>>>> waterfront dive have any chance of pulling it off. The ends justify >>>>> the mean SOBs: "Indispensable" Tim Geithner, wanted in twelve >>>>> jurisdictions for claiming his kid's summer camp as a business >>>>> expense, is the only guy with the savvy to crack the code of the U.S. >>>>> economy. Tom "Home, James!" Daschle is the ruthless backseat driver >>>>> who can figure out how to steer the rusting gurney of U.S. health care >>>>> through the corridors of power. Charles Bronson is the hardbitten >>>>> psycho ex-con who can't go straight but knows how to turn around the >>>>> Department of the Interior. >>>>> >>>>> And, of course, there's the lovable dough-faced shnook in the front >>>>> office, Robert "Fall Guy" Gibbs. He didn't do nuthin' wrong, but, when >>>>> seven nominees die in a grisly shootout with a Taxable Benefit Swat >>>>> Team in the alley behind the Senate, he makes the mistake of looking >>>>> sweaty and shifty while answering routine questions. >>>>> >>>>> A president doesn't have to be able to walk on water. But he does have >>>>> to choose the right crew for the ship, especially if he's planning on >>>>> spending most of his time at the captain's table schmoozing the >>>>> celebrity guests with a lot of deep thoughts about "hope" and >>>>> "change." Far worse than his cabinet picks was President Obama's >>>>> decision to make the "stimulus" racket the all-but-sole priority of >>>>> his first month, and then outsource the project to Nancy Pelosi, >>>>> Barney Frank, and Harry Reid. Appearing on The Rush Limbaugh Show last >>>>> week, I got a little muddled over two adjoining newspaper >>>>> clippings?one on the stimulus, the other on those octuplets in >>>>> California?and for a brief moment the two stories converged. >>>>> Everyone's hammering that mom?she's divorced, unemployed, living in a >>>>> small house with parents who have a million bucks' worth of debt, and >>>>> she's already got six kids. So she has in vitro fertilization to have >>>>> eight more. But isn't that exactly what the Feds have done? Last fall, >>>>> they gave birth to an $850 billion bailout they couldn't afford and >>>>> didn't have enough time to keep an eye on, and now four months later >>>>> they're going to do it all over again, but this time they want >>>>> trillionuplets. Barney and Nancy represent the in vitro fertilization >>>>> of the federal budget. And it's the taxpayers who'll get stuck with >>>>> the diapers. >>>>> >>>>> Those supporters who were wary of touting Obama as the walk-on-water >>>>> Messiah did their best to lower expectations by hailing him merely as >>>>> the new FDR. You remember the old FDR?"We have nothing to fear but >>>>> fear itself." Ha! With the new New Deal, we have everything to fear. >>>>> As President Obama warned on Tuesday, "A failure to act, and act now, >>>>> will turn crisis into a catastrophe." If you're of those moonstruck >>>>> Obammysoxers still driving around with the "HOPE, NOT FEAR" bumper >>>>> stickers, please note that, due to an unfortunate proofreading error >>>>> at the printing plant, certain nouns in that phrase may have been >>>>> accidentally transposed. >>>>> >>>>> As it happens, the best way to ensure catastrophe is to "act now." It >>>>> would be nice if the world could all prance along in regimented unison >>>>> like the Radio City Changettes. But, alas, the foreigners made the >>>>> mistake of actually reading the "stimulus" bill, and the protectionist >>>>> measures buried on page 739 sub-section XII(d) ended, instantly, the >>>>> Obama honeymoon overseas. The European Union has threatened a trade >>>>> war. Up in Canada, provincial premiers called it "a march to >>>>> insanity." Wait a minute: I thought the Obama era was meant to be the >>>>> retreat from insanity, a blessed return to multilateral transnational >>>>> harmony? >>>>> >>>>> As longtime readers will know, I'm all in favor of flipping the bird >>>>> to the global community. But at least, when Rummy was doing his shtick >>>>> about "Old Europe," he did it intentionally. To cheese off the >>>>> foreigners entirely by accident before you've even had your first >>>>> black-tie banquet is quite an accomplishment. Protectionism is serious >>>>> business to the Continentals. Oh, to be sure, if the swaggering >>>>> unilateralist Yank cowboy invades some Third World basket-case they'll >>>>> seize on it as an opportunity for some cheap moral posturing. But in >>>>> the end they don't much care one way or the other. Plunging the planet >>>>> into global depression, on the other hand, is an entirely different >>>>> matter. >>>>> >>>>> The bloated non-stimulus and the under-taxed nominees are part of the >>>>> same story. I'm with Tom Daschle: I understand why he had no desire to >>>>> toss another six-figure sum into the great sucking maw of the federal >>>>> treasury. Who knows better than a senator who's voted for every tax >>>>> increase to cross his desk that all this dough is entirely wasted? Tom >>>>> and Tim Geithner and Charlie Rangel and all the rest are right: They >>>>> can do more good with the money than the United States government can. >>>>> I only wish they followed the logic of their behavior and recognized >>>>> that what works for them would also work for every other citizen. >>>>> Instead, they insist that the sole solution to our woes is a >>>>> record-setting, wasteful government-spending spree. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe it's time for President Obama to come out and give one of his >>>>> big hopey-changey speeches. It's been a few weeks now, and I kinda >>>>> miss them. You know?"We are the change we've been waiting for." "We >>>>> have nothing to hope for but hope itself." "Ask not what your hope can >>>>> change for you, ask what you can hope for your change." Etc. >>>>> >>>>> But I wonder if the old songs from last month's hit parade would play >>>>> as well today. On Wednesday, Salon headlined a story on Obama: "The >>>>> New Great Communicator . . . Isn't." Oh, dear. It's early yet, but the >>>>> gulf between the rhetoric and the reality, between the audacity of >>>>> hope and the reality of pork, yawns ever wider. Right now, it's the >>>>> Obama mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. Some of us never >>>>> expected him to walk on water. But we didn't think he'd be all at sea >>>>> taking on quite so much of it after a mere two weeks. >>>>> >>>>> ? Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 01:18:59 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 00:18:59 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Walking on Water In-Reply-To: <498E744D.9070800@gmail.com> References: <400985d70902072000s5d23e1faqb5b0b607c988cd43@mail.gmail.com> <498E6253.4030802@gmail.com> <400985d70902072057l7bc0182fx3345b00fc014f780@mail.gmail.com> <498E6ABC.9060507@gmail.com> <400985d70902072139h15fd7fdbjbbb3290482ccdf5d@mail.gmail.com> <498E744D.9070800@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902072218y7a6b5d73uc400f923dbea7a1e@mail.gmail.com> Rik, You and I have done the same thing for a living for years - manage risk. You go to work expecting an "easy run" but at the same time "load for bear". Managing a truck is no different than flying a jet except an 18-wheeler has two more tires. Now we are facing a risk that neither of us has prepared for, all the old rules are obsolete. I miss my recently deceased father-in-law. He saw his world turned upside-down several times in his lifetime, survived the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, and lived his last decade watching his daughters "kick ass", one in the US and one in China. I'd love to hear his spin on these events. Tomorrow, I'm going to go teach (yes Virginia, some people work on Sunday) and really put my heart into the effort (which is kinda what I'm paid to do). Just one foot in front of the other - repeat as necessary. I'm too stupid and too old to change ways now. I've got my own rules for radicals. I'll take clever old men over clueless young punks any day of the week. Time to rest for tomorrow's mission. Brad On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:57 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Brad, > > Well, there's you and me and I suppose Bill and Ed.... > > I kinda feel the same. I worked too damned hard and paid too much for a > lot of years to watch it all go down the tubes so easily now. Part of me > wants to stand and fight and part of me knows that if I stick my head up > for too long the long arm of the gov't will reach out and cut it off. > Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I, or you and I > together are not near wealthy enough to buck the gov't for long. > > If we could get enough people in one spot to agree and stand up > together. But it's tough to find anyone with the balls to stick his neck > out. We both know, if you're gonna rebel openly, it'll get damned ugly > before there's any improvement. > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Rik, >> >> Funny you mention that, Fan and I have had that conversation many >> times in the last several months. For us, the choice would be obvious, >> we own two apartments in Beijing that are paid for. She'd find a job >> doing something and I could teach for Boeing under contract, or just >> fly for an Asian carrier with brand new equipment. But, DAMN IT, I'm >> an American and I want to live in the United States. I want to be near >> my youngest son in the US Coast Guard and my oldest son working on his >> second degree (this one in Construction Management and paid for on his >> nickel). I love listening to Cora recite the Pledge of Allegiance >> first thing upon wakening because it will be the first thing she does >> when she gets to school. The bastards are not going to wear me down. >> Read what Ed posted earlier in the day about "Rules for Radicals". You >> can get a feel about where this is going and the tactics being used. >> As Sun Tzu said in "Art of War", know your enemy. I don't need a >> savior. I'm perfectly capable of screwing-up my own life on my own >> and I don't need other peoples borrowed money to do it! Here's to >> personal responsibility and common sense! We are not alone. Are we? >> >> Brad >> >> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> >>> Brad, >>> >>> IF things had worked out differently (for Sandy), we would probably have >>> been or at least on the way to, somewhere (anywhere) "offshore" by now. >>> As it is, I'm probably gonna' get used to holding on to my ankles for a >>> while. >>> >>> I really shouldn't whine too loud, 'cause I know I'm in better shape >>> than most. But MAN it is hard to imagine how so many people could be so >>> naive. The only change I'm seeing is the same old shit but three times >>> as much of it. >>> >>> If he keeps this stuff up, the mid-term election should be a dandy. He >>> should have us pretty much buried in shit by then. >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >>>> Rik, >>>> >>>> The first word on this was "I won". Then it was, "this is what people >>>> voted for". I didn't vote for it, did you? Part of me wants justice >>>> to be served and the Chicago Hangover with Blago and Friends ends the >>>> drama early, and then we get Biden? Next in line is Nancy! Good Grief >>>> Charley Brown! Will it last more than four years? That's a good >>>> question. I've always found it easier to step out of line and just go >>>> get what I need on my own (Sheep 101 school is a good place to learn >>>> that - other people call it college which is where sheep go to learn >>>> sheep 'networking'). I wish I could give you some sound advice about >>>> where to go hide until this silliness is over. Frankly, I'm clueless. >>>> If you find a safe harbor, please let me know. >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brad, >>>>> >>>>> Great article. I was rolling on the floor laughing .... until it hit me >>>>> .... all this is really happening ..... TO ME. >>>>> >>>>> It ain't possible for this to last more than 4 years ... is it?? >>>>> >>>>> Rik >>>>> >>>>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >>>>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> February 07, 2009, 8:00 a.m. >>>>>> >>>>>> Obama, All at Sea >>>>>> It's the new president's mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. >>>>>> >>>>>> By Mark Steyn >>>>>> >>>>>> In the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne tried to break it gently to us: >>>>>> "No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water." >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, sure, no previous occupant of the White House has been able to >>>>>> walk on water?your Eisenhowers and Roosevelts, your Chester Arthurs >>>>>> and Grover Clevelands and whatnot. But Barack Obama didn't run as just >>>>>> another of those squaresville losers. He was gonna heal the planet, >>>>>> and lower the oceans. So, even if he couldn't walk on water, he should >>>>>> at least be able to paddle in it. "He is a community organizer like >>>>>> Jesus was," said Susan Sarandon, "and now we're a community and he can >>>>>> organize us." >>>>>> >>>>>> So how's that going? Jesus took a handful of loaves and two fish and >>>>>> fed 5,000 people. Barack wants to take a trillion pieces of pork and >>>>>> feed it to a handful of Democratic-party interest groups. Jesus picked >>>>>> twelve disciples. Barack seems to have gone more for one of those >>>>>> Dirty Dozen, caper-movie line-ups, where the mission is so perilous >>>>>> and so audacious that only the scuzziest lowlifes recruited from every >>>>>> waterfront dive have any chance of pulling it off. The ends justify >>>>>> the mean SOBs: "Indispensable" Tim Geithner, wanted in twelve >>>>>> jurisdictions for claiming his kid's summer camp as a business >>>>>> expense, is the only guy with the savvy to crack the code of the U.S. >>>>>> economy. Tom "Home, James!" Daschle is the ruthless backseat driver >>>>>> who can figure out how to steer the rusting gurney of U.S. health care >>>>>> through the corridors of power. Charles Bronson is the hardbitten >>>>>> psycho ex-con who can't go straight but knows how to turn around the >>>>>> Department of the Interior. >>>>>> >>>>>> And, of course, there's the lovable dough-faced shnook in the front >>>>>> office, Robert "Fall Guy" Gibbs. He didn't do nuthin' wrong, but, when >>>>>> seven nominees die in a grisly shootout with a Taxable Benefit Swat >>>>>> Team in the alley behind the Senate, he makes the mistake of looking >>>>>> sweaty and shifty while answering routine questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> A president doesn't have to be able to walk on water. But he does have >>>>>> to choose the right crew for the ship, especially if he's planning on >>>>>> spending most of his time at the captain's table schmoozing the >>>>>> celebrity guests with a lot of deep thoughts about "hope" and >>>>>> "change." Far worse than his cabinet picks was President Obama's >>>>>> decision to make the "stimulus" racket the all-but-sole priority of >>>>>> his first month, and then outsource the project to Nancy Pelosi, >>>>>> Barney Frank, and Harry Reid. Appearing on The Rush Limbaugh Show last >>>>>> week, I got a little muddled over two adjoining newspaper >>>>>> clippings?one on the stimulus, the other on those octuplets in >>>>>> California?and for a brief moment the two stories converged. >>>>>> Everyone's hammering that mom?she's divorced, unemployed, living in a >>>>>> small house with parents who have a million bucks' worth of debt, and >>>>>> she's already got six kids. So she has in vitro fertilization to have >>>>>> eight more. But isn't that exactly what the Feds have done? Last fall, >>>>>> they gave birth to an $850 billion bailout they couldn't afford and >>>>>> didn't have enough time to keep an eye on, and now four months later >>>>>> they're going to do it all over again, but this time they want >>>>>> trillionuplets. Barney and Nancy represent the in vitro fertilization >>>>>> of the federal budget. And it's the taxpayers who'll get stuck with >>>>>> the diapers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Those supporters who were wary of touting Obama as the walk-on-water >>>>>> Messiah did their best to lower expectations by hailing him merely as >>>>>> the new FDR. You remember the old FDR?"We have nothing to fear but >>>>>> fear itself." Ha! With the new New Deal, we have everything to fear. >>>>>> As President Obama warned on Tuesday, "A failure to act, and act now, >>>>>> will turn crisis into a catastrophe." If you're of those moonstruck >>>>>> Obammysoxers still driving around with the "HOPE, NOT FEAR" bumper >>>>>> stickers, please note that, due to an unfortunate proofreading error >>>>>> at the printing plant, certain nouns in that phrase may have been >>>>>> accidentally transposed. >>>>>> >>>>>> As it happens, the best way to ensure catastrophe is to "act now." It >>>>>> would be nice if the world could all prance along in regimented unison >>>>>> like the Radio City Changettes. But, alas, the foreigners made the >>>>>> mistake of actually reading the "stimulus" bill, and the protectionist >>>>>> measures buried on page 739 sub-section XII(d) ended, instantly, the >>>>>> Obama honeymoon overseas. The European Union has threatened a trade >>>>>> war. Up in Canada, provincial premiers called it "a march to >>>>>> insanity." Wait a minute: I thought the Obama era was meant to be the >>>>>> retreat from insanity, a blessed return to multilateral transnational >>>>>> harmony? >>>>>> >>>>>> As longtime readers will know, I'm all in favor of flipping the bird >>>>>> to the global community. But at least, when Rummy was doing his shtick >>>>>> about "Old Europe," he did it intentionally. To cheese off the >>>>>> foreigners entirely by accident before you've even had your first >>>>>> black-tie banquet is quite an accomplishment. Protectionism is serious >>>>>> business to the Continentals. Oh, to be sure, if the swaggering >>>>>> unilateralist Yank cowboy invades some Third World basket-case they'll >>>>>> seize on it as an opportunity for some cheap moral posturing. But in >>>>>> the end they don't much care one way or the other. Plunging the planet >>>>>> into global depression, on the other hand, is an entirely different >>>>>> matter. >>>>>> >>>>>> The bloated non-stimulus and the under-taxed nominees are part of the >>>>>> same story. I'm with Tom Daschle: I understand why he had no desire to >>>>>> toss another six-figure sum into the great sucking maw of the federal >>>>>> treasury. Who knows better than a senator who's voted for every tax >>>>>> increase to cross his desk that all this dough is entirely wasted? Tom >>>>>> and Tim Geithner and Charlie Rangel and all the rest are right: They >>>>>> can do more good with the money than the United States government can. >>>>>> I only wish they followed the logic of their behavior and recognized >>>>>> that what works for them would also work for every other citizen. >>>>>> Instead, they insist that the sole solution to our woes is a >>>>>> record-setting, wasteful government-spending spree. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe it's time for President Obama to come out and give one of his >>>>>> big hopey-changey speeches. It's been a few weeks now, and I kinda >>>>>> miss them. You know?"We are the change we've been waiting for." "We >>>>>> have nothing to hope for but hope itself." "Ask not what your hope can >>>>>> change for you, ask what you can hope for your change." Etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I wonder if the old songs from last month's hit parade would play >>>>>> as well today. On Wednesday, Salon headlined a story on Obama: "The >>>>>> New Great Communicator . . . Isn't." Oh, dear. It's early yet, but the >>>>>> gulf between the rhetoric and the reality, between the audacity of >>>>>> hope and the reality of pork, yawns ever wider. Right now, it's the >>>>>> Obama mythology that urgently needs some stimulus. Some of us never >>>>>> expected him to walk on water. But we didn't think he'd be all at sea >>>>>> taking on quite so much of it after a mere two weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> ? Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 08:47:19 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 07:47:19 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Plato on the Death of Republics Message-ID: <400985d70902080547s7c0f08f9i30371f3e73e8465@mail.gmail.com> How Republics Die Plato's Cautionary Tale By Mark J. Boone : 06 Feb 2009 Plato Insofar as an economic downturn has traceable causes, the present recession seems to have origins in the behavior of at least three groups of people: reckless lenders, who encouraged people to spend their money irresponsibly; reckless borrowers, who took their advice and spent well outside the limits of need and the ability to repay; and a government which at times encouraged such behavior through organizations such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This is old news to the astute observer and the regular reader of TCS. What they may not know is how vividly, and how long ago, great philosophers warned us just how dangerously our society was using money. The great philosophers understood that economics operates on a moral plane, indeed a spiritual plane; that economic problems are often moral problems; and that financial markets are corrupted as much by bad behavior as by bad economic theory. The antiquity of their advice only serves to belie its strikingly acute contemporary relevance. Read along from an excerpt of Plato's Republic (Book VIII, 550d-566), and see if any of it sounds familiar. It's the tragic tale of a declining republic, a tale of war, money, and politics all gone wrong through a combination of bad judgment and disordered cravings. We begin with moneylenders who have a nasty habit of lending money to people they know will use it irresponsibly, especially to youths whom they encourage to fritter it away on useless luxuries. They prefer that their money be wasted on frivolities; the more of it is wasted today, the more they can charge in interest tomorrow. But their clients are just as bad, if not worse. By spending others' money on frivolities, they fail to take responsibility for themselves. A group of people recklessly spending other people's money soon becomes a leech on society: a class of those who have ruined themselves burning through borrowed money. The class of bitter, bankrupt borrowers finds it has a friend?or what looks and talks like a friend?in a group of politicians who promises them honey, served in a silver bowl at the expense of the moneylenders who got them into trouble in the first place. Their alliance only lasts until one of the honey-tongued politicians stirs up the bankrupted class, whips them into a frenzied mob, and makes war against the wealthy class, seizing their money by force. This politician emerges as a tyrant, and the old republic has died. Republic is a complex and profound morality tale in which we can see, if darkly, the reflection of our own republic. Its story is not exactly ours, but we have a lot in common with this once-beautiful city. Specifically, we have the same moneylenders and borrowers. The eeriest similarity to Plato's moneylenders is the agressive marketing of credit cards to college students. However, the reckless use of home loans on the part of both lender and borrower has proven more devastating. We have been blessedly spared from the final stage of the societal destruction portrayed in Republic, wherein a redistribution of wealth proceeds by way of a violent coup to tyranny. The American republic is stable enough that for the foreseeable future we need not fear such madness. But the same disease can also kill a republic slowly. Cicero, the great Roman statesman and philosopher who was also a great reader of Plato, warns that redistributing wealth by taking it from lenders and giving it to borrowers is among the worst things a leader can do because it wreaks havoc on a credit system (On Duties, Book II, chapters 83-85). This in turn can cripple an economy and lead to the same awful result: the death of the republic. Since credit is a function of the credibility a borrower has in the eyes of a lender, nothing can damage it more than if lenders expect to be repaid with their own taxes. While we can be grateful we haven't seen more of this, we should keep a hawk's eye on the new Congress for any signs of this sort of redistribution. After all, we would only be deceiving ourselves if we thought that our republic by virtue of its size, technology, hefty GDP, or anything else is somehow immune to what destroyed other republics. Human nature destroyed ancient republics, and it could destroy ours. From bill at effros.com Sun Feb 8 09:03:44 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:03:44 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest Message-ID: <498EE640.6030605@effros.com> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Global Warming Protest.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 77514 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090208/eb21f767/attachment-0001.jpg From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 09:17:48 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 08:17:48 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] White Males AND Non-Union Members Need Not Apply Message-ID: <400985d70902080617k2558c80ax22beb61395f82682@mail.gmail.com> Oh Dear, it is bad enough that my brother and I lack the proper pigmentation for construction work (we only own equipment and know what we're doing), now it appears that we'll have to organize our workforce. Since I already belong to one union, perhaps Gary can sign a right to act card and he and I can start negotiating. Since most RED states are "right to work" states, it will be almost impossible to find organized labor since labor unions for unskilled trades are for the most part non-existent. How will federal projects be built in "right to work" states? Hmmmm.......maybe I just answered my own question. Hope. Change. Comrades! Brad ------------------ WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) today denounced an Executive Order signed by President Obama that repeals Executive Order 13202, that prohibited federal agencies and recipients of federal funding from requiring contractors to sign union-only project labor agreements (PLAs) as a condition of performing work on federal and federally funded construction projects. "Today's decision to repeal Executive Order 13202 opens the door to waste and discrimination in federal and federally funded construction contracts," said ABC President and CEO Kirk Pickerel. "This action removes the safeguards that prohibited discrimination based upon union affiliation in the awarding of federal contracts. "Construction contracts subject to union-only PLAs are designed to be awarded exclusively to unionized contractors and their all-union workforces," said Pickerel. "Absent the economic benefits of competitive bidding, union-only PLAs are known to increase construction costs between 10 percent and 20 percent and discriminate against minorities, women and qualified construction workers who have traditionally been excluded from union membership. "Union-only PLAs drive up costs for American taxpayers while unfairly discriminating against 84 percent of U.S. construction workers who choose not to join a labor union," added Pickerel. "All taxpayers should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by the federal government." A union-only PLA is a contract that requires a federal construction project to be awarded only to contractors and subcontractors that agree to recognize unions as the representatives of their employees on that job; use the union hiring hall to obtain workers; pay union wages and benefits; and obey the union's restrictive work rules, job classifications and arbitration procedures. Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) is a national trade association representing 25,000 merit shop construction and construction-related firms in 79 chapters across the United States. Visit us at www.abc.org. From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 09:20:26 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 08:20:26 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Hundreds Attend Global Warming Protest In-Reply-To: <498EE640.6030605@effros.com> References: <498EE640.6030605@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902080620g1a3477fcs287b75c9fc8069fc@mail.gmail.com> Bill, How did you do that? When I tried to save the photo to the desktop it converted to a Google document (that was from an e-mail attachment, I didn't try it from the original website). The "save as" option didn't offer jpeg as one of the options. Brad On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Bill Effros wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From bill at effros.com Sun Feb 8 09:29:58 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:29:58 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Snagit In-Reply-To: <400985d70902080620g1a3477fcs287b75c9fc8069fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <498EE640.6030605@effros.com> <400985d70902080620g1a3477fcs287b75c9fc8069fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498EEC66.2080505@effros.com> Brad, Get a copy of Snagit -- a screen capture program. http://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.asp I grabbed the picture in seconds. More importantly, my picture is now stored in the Swiftwater Gazette files -- nobody can make it disappear. I am using Snagit to capture videos as well, and almost anything I can think of. I find it enormously useful and use it 10 times a day, every day. It will take you 5 minutes to learn to use it crudely. If you spend more time with it, you will be able to easily do tricks you didn't know were possible. If you get it, I'll explain how I have my version set up. I'm sure to learn new tricks along the way. B. Brad Haslett wrote: > Bill, > > How did you do that? When I tried to save the photo to the desktop it > converted to a Google document (that was from an e-mail attachment, I > didn't try it from the original website). The "save as" option didn't > offer jpeg as one of the options. > > Brad > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Bill Effros wrote: > >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090208/693fd7a4/attachment.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 10:19:51 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:19:51 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] White Males AND Non-Union Members Need Not Apply In-Reply-To: <400985d70902080617k2558c80ax22beb61395f82682@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902080617k2558c80ax22beb61395f82682@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498EF817.20508@gmail.com> Brad, > "All taxpayers > should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by > the federal government." I sure wish there was someone who would show me the part of the constitution that says belonging to a union will give a citizen extra rights and privileges over those that don't feel the need for union support. As I said last week, The O one doesn't know squat about running a business, but he surely knows who paid a ton of money to get him where he is. At this rate, it doesn't look like you'll be going to work up at Kentucky Dam any time soon, eh? Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > Oh Dear, it is bad enough that my brother and I lack the proper > pigmentation for construction work (we only own equipment and know > what we're doing), now it appears that we'll have to organize our > workforce. Since I already belong to one union, perhaps Gary can sign > a right to act card and he and I can start negotiating. Since most RED > states are "right to work" states, it will be almost impossible to > find organized labor since labor unions for unskilled trades are for > the most part non-existent. How will federal projects be built in > "right to work" states? Hmmmm.......maybe I just answered my own > question. > > Hope. Change. Comrades! > > Brad > > ------------------ > > WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Associated Builders and > Contractors (ABC) today denounced an Executive Order signed by > President Obama that repeals Executive Order 13202, that prohibited > federal agencies and recipients of federal funding from requiring > contractors to sign union-only project labor agreements (PLAs) as a > condition of performing work on federal and federally funded > construction projects. > > "Today's decision to repeal Executive Order 13202 opens the door to > waste and discrimination in federal and federally funded construction > contracts," said ABC President and CEO Kirk Pickerel. "This action > removes the safeguards that prohibited discrimination based upon union > affiliation in the awarding of federal contracts. > > "Construction contracts subject to union-only PLAs are designed to be > awarded exclusively to unionized contractors and their all-union > workforces," said Pickerel. "Absent the economic benefits of > competitive bidding, union-only PLAs are known to increase > construction costs between 10 percent and 20 percent and discriminate > against minorities, women and qualified construction workers who have > traditionally been excluded from union membership. > > "Union-only PLAs drive up costs for American taxpayers while unfairly > discriminating against 84 percent of U.S. construction workers who > choose not to join a labor union," added Pickerel. "All taxpayers > should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by > the federal government." > > A union-only PLA is a contract that requires a federal construction > project to be awarded only to contractors and subcontractors that > agree to recognize unions as the representatives of their employees on > that job; use the union hiring hall to obtain workers; pay union wages > and benefits; and obey the union's restrictive work rules, job > classifications and arbitration procedures. > > Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) is a national trade > association representing 25,000 merit shop construction and > construction-related firms in 79 chapters across the United States. > Visit us at www.abc.org. > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From ekroposki at charter.net Sun Feb 8 10:28:51 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:28:51 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Brad - Screen Capture Programs Message-ID: <7A03C583282C4D73AB2ECB929C88C0E2@YOURB88038198E> Brad, I looked at Bill's site. It is probaby as good as he says, but I use an old freeware program called 'Print Key 2000'. A quick check shows that this program has been removed from freeware at request of author. However if you want a copy, I have the zipped version. Here is the alternative that freeware suggests: http://www.freewareweb.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?ID=1853 Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090208/7fd3c950/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090208/7fd3c950/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1939 - Release Date: 02/07/09 13:39:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 11:50:14 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:50:14 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] White Males AND Non-Union Members Need Not Apply In-Reply-To: <498EF817.20508@gmail.com> References: <400985d70902080617k2558c80ax22beb61395f82682@mail.gmail.com> <498EF817.20508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902080850p377d118jbfcb25efcf7090ad@mail.gmail.com> Rik, I spoke with Gary this morning and told him to find a union to join - I suggested the International Garment Workers Union since he's always had a fondness for panties. He owned his own construction company in Illinois for over 25 years so he's familiar with how this works (this is basically "pay to play" Chicago style gone nationwide). If you're working as a sub-contractor on a short-term, small scale project, you just do what you always do with your own employees and hope you don't get caught. If you do get caught, then you have to pay union dues based on the prevailing wage rate on your own employees (even though they are not eligible for any benefits). Often times, the easiest solution to the problem if a union steward approaches you on the job sight is to "find" a hundred dollar bill that was dropped and ask "is this yours"? The closer to Chicago you get the more expensive the stakes (and the steaks and hookers) which is why he stayed out of the area. How it will work in the right-to-work states is anybody's guess. One thing is certain, contractors will just factor in higher labor costs for every project and the taxpayers will foot the bill. The so-called Employee Free Choice is a particularly onerous piece of legislation that Chairman Obama will probably get passed (card check). Another one is Fair Employee Identification Act which will make it difficult for contractors to use owner-operators like us without putting us on their payroll. If it works nationwide like it does in Illinois, any job with more than four pieces of equipment will have to have an "oiler" on the job. Gary wouldn't be allowed to fuel or lubricate his own machine. If you own your equipment, it is often better just to have the "oiler" sit in his truck all day and do the work yourself. We have done very little sub-contracting on the coast and this just forces us further into our little niche market. That's fine, we like our Vietnamese clientle and they pay like clockwork. They're nice folks to work for once you get past the negotiating phase. Gary has learned to make a game of it. The 2012 re-election campaign is well under way. You're witnessing the first installment. Brad On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Brad, > >> "All taxpayers >> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >> the federal government." > I sure wish there was someone who would show me the part of the > constitution that says belonging to a union will give a citizen extra > rights and privileges over those that don't feel the need for union support. > > As I said last week, The O one doesn't know squat about running a > business, but he surely knows who paid a ton of money to get him where > he is. > > At this rate, it doesn't look like you'll be going to work up at > Kentucky Dam any time soon, eh? > > Rik > > > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Oh Dear, it is bad enough that my brother and I lack the proper >> pigmentation for construction work (we only own equipment and know >> what we're doing), now it appears that we'll have to organize our >> workforce. Since I already belong to one union, perhaps Gary can sign >> a right to act card and he and I can start negotiating. Since most RED >> states are "right to work" states, it will be almost impossible to >> find organized labor since labor unions for unskilled trades are for >> the most part non-existent. How will federal projects be built in >> "right to work" states? Hmmmm.......maybe I just answered my own >> question. >> >> Hope. Change. Comrades! >> >> Brad >> >> ------------------ >> >> WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Associated Builders and >> Contractors (ABC) today denounced an Executive Order signed by >> President Obama that repeals Executive Order 13202, that prohibited >> federal agencies and recipients of federal funding from requiring >> contractors to sign union-only project labor agreements (PLAs) as a >> condition of performing work on federal and federally funded >> construction projects. >> >> "Today's decision to repeal Executive Order 13202 opens the door to >> waste and discrimination in federal and federally funded construction >> contracts," said ABC President and CEO Kirk Pickerel. "This action >> removes the safeguards that prohibited discrimination based upon union >> affiliation in the awarding of federal contracts. >> >> "Construction contracts subject to union-only PLAs are designed to be >> awarded exclusively to unionized contractors and their all-union >> workforces," said Pickerel. "Absent the economic benefits of >> competitive bidding, union-only PLAs are known to increase >> construction costs between 10 percent and 20 percent and discriminate >> against minorities, women and qualified construction workers who have >> traditionally been excluded from union membership. >> >> "Union-only PLAs drive up costs for American taxpayers while unfairly >> discriminating against 84 percent of U.S. construction workers who >> choose not to join a labor union," added Pickerel. "All taxpayers >> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >> the federal government." >> >> A union-only PLA is a contract that requires a federal construction >> project to be awarded only to contractors and subcontractors that >> agree to recognize unions as the representatives of their employees on >> that job; use the union hiring hall to obtain workers; pay union wages >> and benefits; and obey the union's restrictive work rules, job >> classifications and arbitration procedures. >> >> Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) is a national trade >> association representing 25,000 merit shop construction and >> construction-related firms in 79 chapters across the United States. >> Visit us at www.abc.org. >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 14:05:02 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:05:02 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] White Males AND Non-Union Members Need Not Apply In-Reply-To: <400985d70902080850p377d118jbfcb25efcf7090ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902080617k2558c80ax22beb61395f82682@mail.gmail.com> <498EF817.20508@gmail.com> <400985d70902080850p377d118jbfcb25efcf7090ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498F2CDE.7000906@gmail.com> Brad, So let's fix 'em, we'll all of us join the union. After the adjustment period of us all getting joined up, we will be right back in the same position we are in now. We will just be passing more money back and forth. The end result will be, we'll not be one dime richer than we were before, but poorer by the amount we have paid to the third party, the union, who will be wealthy beyond belief. I found this article on credit this morning. It pretty much says, in much more detail, what I have been trying so poorly to say all along. It's long, too long to copy and paste, but worth the effort I think. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/steve-keen-roving-cavaliers-of-credit.html Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, > > I spoke with Gary this morning and told him to find a union to join - > I suggested the International Garment Workers Union since he's always > had a fondness for panties. He owned his own construction company in > Illinois for over 25 years so he's familiar with how this works (this > is basically "pay to play" Chicago style gone nationwide). If you're > working as a sub-contractor on a short-term, small scale project, you > just do what you always do with your own employees and hope you don't > get caught. If you do get caught, then you have to pay union dues > based on the prevailing wage rate on your own employees (even though > they are not eligible for any benefits). Often times, the easiest > solution to the problem if a union steward approaches you on the job > sight is to "find" a hundred dollar bill that was dropped and ask "is > this yours"? The closer to Chicago you get the more expensive the > stakes (and the steaks and hookers) which is why he stayed out of the > area. How it will work in the right-to-work states is anybody's > guess. One thing is certain, contractors will just factor in higher > labor costs for every project and the taxpayers will foot the bill. > The so-called Employee Free Choice is a particularly onerous piece of > legislation that Chairman Obama will probably get passed (card check). > Another one is Fair Employee Identification Act which will make it > difficult for contractors to use owner-operators like us without > putting us on their payroll. If it works nationwide like it does in > Illinois, any job with more than four pieces of equipment will have to > have an "oiler" on the job. Gary wouldn't be allowed to fuel or > lubricate his own machine. If you own your equipment, it is often > better just to have the "oiler" sit in his truck all day and do the > work yourself. > > We have done very little sub-contracting on the coast and this just > forces us further into our little niche market. That's fine, we like > our Vietnamese clientle and they pay like clockwork. They're nice > folks to work for once you get past the negotiating phase. Gary has > learned to make a game of it. > > The 2012 re-election campaign is well under way. You're witnessing > the first installment. > > Brad > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> Brad, >> >> >>> "All taxpayers >>> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >>> the federal government." >>> >> I sure wish there was someone who would show me the part of the >> constitution that says belonging to a union will give a citizen extra >> rights and privileges over those that don't feel the need for union support. >> >> As I said last week, The O one doesn't know squat about running a >> business, but he surely knows who paid a ton of money to get him where >> he is. >> >> At this rate, it doesn't look like you'll be going to work up at >> Kentucky Dam any time soon, eh? >> >> Rik >> >> >> >> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >> Joel, mount hope, USA >> >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Oh Dear, it is bad enough that my brother and I lack the proper >>> pigmentation for construction work (we only own equipment and know >>> what we're doing), now it appears that we'll have to organize our >>> workforce. Since I already belong to one union, perhaps Gary can sign >>> a right to act card and he and I can start negotiating. Since most RED >>> states are "right to work" states, it will be almost impossible to >>> find organized labor since labor unions for unskilled trades are for >>> the most part non-existent. How will federal projects be built in >>> "right to work" states? Hmmmm.......maybe I just answered my own >>> question. >>> >>> Hope. Change. Comrades! >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> ------------------ >>> >>> WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Associated Builders and >>> Contractors (ABC) today denounced an Executive Order signed by >>> President Obama that repeals Executive Order 13202, that prohibited >>> federal agencies and recipients of federal funding from requiring >>> contractors to sign union-only project labor agreements (PLAs) as a >>> condition of performing work on federal and federally funded >>> construction projects. >>> >>> "Today's decision to repeal Executive Order 13202 opens the door to >>> waste and discrimination in federal and federally funded construction >>> contracts," said ABC President and CEO Kirk Pickerel. "This action >>> removes the safeguards that prohibited discrimination based upon union >>> affiliation in the awarding of federal contracts. >>> >>> "Construction contracts subject to union-only PLAs are designed to be >>> awarded exclusively to unionized contractors and their all-union >>> workforces," said Pickerel. "Absent the economic benefits of >>> competitive bidding, union-only PLAs are known to increase >>> construction costs between 10 percent and 20 percent and discriminate >>> against minorities, women and qualified construction workers who have >>> traditionally been excluded from union membership. >>> >>> "Union-only PLAs drive up costs for American taxpayers while unfairly >>> discriminating against 84 percent of U.S. construction workers who >>> choose not to join a labor union," added Pickerel. "All taxpayers >>> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >>> the federal government." >>> >>> A union-only PLA is a contract that requires a federal construction >>> project to be awarded only to contractors and subcontractors that >>> agree to recognize unions as the representatives of their employees on >>> that job; use the union hiring hall to obtain workers; pay union wages >>> and benefits; and obey the union's restrictive work rules, job >>> classifications and arbitration procedures. >>> >>> Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) is a national trade >>> association representing 25,000 merit shop construction and >>> construction-related firms in 79 chapters across the United States. >>> Visit us at www.abc.org. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Sun Feb 8 16:07:40 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 16:07:40 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] White Males AND Non-Union Members Need NotApply References: <400985d70902080617k2558c80ax22beb61395f82682@mail.gmail.com><498EF817.20508@gmail.com> <400985d70902080850p377d118jbfcb25efcf7090ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9FF3F98852FA4D42AEF0E38E12682382@D9X7C761> Brad, I propose that we organize a union to protect owner-operators from discriminatory practices by their employers (government.) We can issue membership cards and even charge reasonable fees as "dues" to be a member of the International Owner's Union (IOU). Once Gary becomes a member of the IOU, he can successfully bid on all those federal contracts without going broke trying to payoff the unions. If it catches on, we might even be able to afford to pay our salaries as union administrators and have us an annual meeting, say in the Caribbean or somewhere nice with some perks. I think that I could get to like the New World Order ... Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Sunday, February 08, 2009 11:50 AM > Rik, > > I spoke with Gary this morning and told him to find a union to join - > I suggested the International Garment Workers Union since he's always > had a fondness for panties. He owned his own construction company in > Illinois for over 25 years so he's familiar with how this works (this > is basically "pay to play" Chicago style gone nationwide). If you're > working as a sub-contractor on a short-term, small scale project, you > just do what you always do with your own employees and hope you don't > get caught. If you do get caught, then you have to pay union dues > based on the prevailing wage rate on your own employees (even though > they are not eligible for any benefits). Often times, the easiest > solution to the problem if a union steward approaches you on the job > sight is to "find" a hundred dollar bill that was dropped and ask "is > this yours"? The closer to Chicago you get the more expensive the > stakes (and the steaks and hookers) which is why he stayed out of the > area. How it will work in the right-to-work states is anybody's > guess. One thing is certain, contractors will just factor in higher > labor costs for every project and the taxpayers will foot the bill. > The so-called Employee Free Choice is a particularly onerous piece of > legislation that Chairman Obama will probably get passed (card check). > Another one is Fair Employee Identification Act which will make it > difficult for contractors to use owner-operators like us without > putting us on their payroll. If it works nationwide like it does in > Illinois, any job with more than four pieces of equipment will have to > have an "oiler" on the job. Gary wouldn't be allowed to fuel or > lubricate his own machine. If you own your equipment, it is often > better just to have the "oiler" sit in his truck all day and do the > work yourself. > > We have done very little sub-contracting on the coast and this just > forces us further into our little niche market. That's fine, we like > our Vietnamese clientle and they pay like clockwork. They're nice > folks to work for once you get past the negotiating phase. Gary has > learned to make a game of it. > > The 2012 re-election campaign is well under way. You're witnessing > the first installment. > > Brad > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> Brad, >> >>> "All taxpayers >>> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >>> the federal government." >> I sure wish there was someone who would show me the part of the >> constitution that says belonging to a union will give a citizen extra >> rights and privileges over those that don't feel the need for union >> support. >> >> As I said last week, The O one doesn't know squat about running a >> business, but he surely knows who paid a ton of money to get him where >> he is. >> >> At this rate, it doesn't look like you'll be going to work up at >> Kentucky Dam any time soon, eh? >> >> Rik >> >> >> >> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a >> beating. >> Joel, mount hope, USA >> >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> Oh Dear, it is bad enough that my brother and I lack the proper >>> pigmentation for construction work (we only own equipment and know >>> what we're doing), now it appears that we'll have to organize our >>> workforce. Since I already belong to one union, perhaps Gary can sign >>> a right to act card and he and I can start negotiating. Since most RED >>> states are "right to work" states, it will be almost impossible to >>> find organized labor since labor unions for unskilled trades are for >>> the most part non-existent. How will federal projects be built in >>> "right to work" states? Hmmmm.......maybe I just answered my own >>> question. >>> >>> Hope. Change. Comrades! >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> ------------------ >>> >>> WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Associated Builders and >>> Contractors (ABC) today denounced an Executive Order signed by >>> President Obama that repeals Executive Order 13202, that prohibited >>> federal agencies and recipients of federal funding from requiring >>> contractors to sign union-only project labor agreements (PLAs) as a >>> condition of performing work on federal and federally funded >>> construction projects. >>> >>> "Today's decision to repeal Executive Order 13202 opens the door to >>> waste and discrimination in federal and federally funded construction >>> contracts," said ABC President and CEO Kirk Pickerel. "This action >>> removes the safeguards that prohibited discrimination based upon union >>> affiliation in the awarding of federal contracts. >>> >>> "Construction contracts subject to union-only PLAs are designed to be >>> awarded exclusively to unionized contractors and their all-union >>> workforces," said Pickerel. "Absent the economic benefits of >>> competitive bidding, union-only PLAs are known to increase >>> construction costs between 10 percent and 20 percent and discriminate >>> against minorities, women and qualified construction workers who have >>> traditionally been excluded from union membership. >>> >>> "Union-only PLAs drive up costs for American taxpayers while unfairly >>> discriminating against 84 percent of U.S. construction workers who >>> choose not to join a labor union," added Pickerel. "All taxpayers >>> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >>> the federal government." >>> >>> A union-only PLA is a contract that requires a federal construction >>> project to be awarded only to contractors and subcontractors that >>> agree to recognize unions as the representatives of their employees on >>> that job; use the union hiring hall to obtain workers; pay union wages >>> and benefits; and obey the union's restrictive work rules, job >>> classifications and arbitration procedures. >>> >>> Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) is a national trade >>> association representing 25,000 merit shop construction and >>> construction-related firms in 79 chapters across the United States. >>> Visit us at www.abc.org. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 18:34:15 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 17:34:15 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] White Males AND Non-Union Members Need NotApply In-Reply-To: <9FF3F98852FA4D42AEF0E38E12682382@D9X7C761> References: <400985d70902080617k2558c80ax22beb61395f82682@mail.gmail.com> <498EF817.20508@gmail.com> <400985d70902080850p377d118jbfcb25efcf7090ad@mail.gmail.com> <9FF3F98852FA4D42AEF0E38E12682382@D9X7C761> Message-ID: <400985d70902081534i68eaca9bk97db7933aa587fa7@mail.gmail.com> Mike, Outstanding idea! I like your thinking. Just so we don't look like some piss ant outfit, we need a really "kick ass" airplane to jet around the country. I volunteer to be the Chief Pilot, in fact, I'll fly and organize. Hey, Hooters Girls aren't collective bargained are they? We can fly around the US visiting Hooters and pass out right-to-act cards. Fraternally yours, Brother Brad On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Brad, > > I propose that we organize a union to protect owner-operators from > discriminatory practices by their employers (government.) We can issue > membership cards and even charge reasonable fees as "dues" to be a member of > the International Owner's Union (IOU). Once Gary becomes a member of the > IOU, he can successfully bid on all those federal contracts without going > broke trying to payoff the unions. If it catches on, we might even be able > to afford to pay our salaries as union administrators and have us an annual > meeting, say in the Caribbean or somewhere nice with some perks. I think > that I could get to like the New World Order ... > > Mike > > From: "Brad Haslett" Sunday, February 08, 2009 11:50 AM >> Rik, >> >> I spoke with Gary this morning and told him to find a union to join - >> I suggested the International Garment Workers Union since he's always >> had a fondness for panties. He owned his own construction company in >> Illinois for over 25 years so he's familiar with how this works (this >> is basically "pay to play" Chicago style gone nationwide). If you're >> working as a sub-contractor on a short-term, small scale project, you >> just do what you always do with your own employees and hope you don't >> get caught. If you do get caught, then you have to pay union dues >> based on the prevailing wage rate on your own employees (even though >> they are not eligible for any benefits). Often times, the easiest >> solution to the problem if a union steward approaches you on the job >> sight is to "find" a hundred dollar bill that was dropped and ask "is >> this yours"? The closer to Chicago you get the more expensive the >> stakes (and the steaks and hookers) which is why he stayed out of the >> area. How it will work in the right-to-work states is anybody's >> guess. One thing is certain, contractors will just factor in higher >> labor costs for every project and the taxpayers will foot the bill. >> The so-called Employee Free Choice is a particularly onerous piece of >> legislation that Chairman Obama will probably get passed (card check). >> Another one is Fair Employee Identification Act which will make it >> difficult for contractors to use owner-operators like us without >> putting us on their payroll. If it works nationwide like it does in >> Illinois, any job with more than four pieces of equipment will have to >> have an "oiler" on the job. Gary wouldn't be allowed to fuel or >> lubricate his own machine. If you own your equipment, it is often >> better just to have the "oiler" sit in his truck all day and do the >> work yourself. >> >> We have done very little sub-contracting on the coast and this just >> forces us further into our little niche market. That's fine, we like >> our Vietnamese clientle and they pay like clockwork. They're nice >> folks to work for once you get past the negotiating phase. Gary has >> learned to make a game of it. >> >> The 2012 re-election campaign is well under way. You're witnessing >> the first installment. >> >> Brad >> >> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> Brad, >>> >>>> "All taxpayers >>>> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >>>> the federal government." >>> I sure wish there was someone who would show me the part of the >>> constitution that says belonging to a union will give a citizen extra >>> rights and privileges over those that don't feel the need for union >>> support. >>> >>> As I said last week, The O one doesn't know squat about running a >>> business, but he surely knows who paid a ton of money to get him where >>> he is. >>> >>> At this rate, it doesn't look like you'll be going to work up at >>> Kentucky Dam any time soon, eh? >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> >>> >>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a >>> beating. >>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>> Oh Dear, it is bad enough that my brother and I lack the proper >>>> pigmentation for construction work (we only own equipment and know >>>> what we're doing), now it appears that we'll have to organize our >>>> workforce. Since I already belong to one union, perhaps Gary can sign >>>> a right to act card and he and I can start negotiating. Since most RED >>>> states are "right to work" states, it will be almost impossible to >>>> find organized labor since labor unions for unskilled trades are for >>>> the most part non-existent. How will federal projects be built in >>>> "right to work" states? Hmmmm.......maybe I just answered my own >>>> question. >>>> >>>> Hope. Change. Comrades! >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> ------------------ >>>> >>>> WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Associated Builders and >>>> Contractors (ABC) today denounced an Executive Order signed by >>>> President Obama that repeals Executive Order 13202, that prohibited >>>> federal agencies and recipients of federal funding from requiring >>>> contractors to sign union-only project labor agreements (PLAs) as a >>>> condition of performing work on federal and federally funded >>>> construction projects. >>>> >>>> "Today's decision to repeal Executive Order 13202 opens the door to >>>> waste and discrimination in federal and federally funded construction >>>> contracts," said ABC President and CEO Kirk Pickerel. "This action >>>> removes the safeguards that prohibited discrimination based upon union >>>> affiliation in the awarding of federal contracts. >>>> >>>> "Construction contracts subject to union-only PLAs are designed to be >>>> awarded exclusively to unionized contractors and their all-union >>>> workforces," said Pickerel. "Absent the economic benefits of >>>> competitive bidding, union-only PLAs are known to increase >>>> construction costs between 10 percent and 20 percent and discriminate >>>> against minorities, women and qualified construction workers who have >>>> traditionally been excluded from union membership. >>>> >>>> "Union-only PLAs drive up costs for American taxpayers while unfairly >>>> discriminating against 84 percent of U.S. construction workers who >>>> choose not to join a labor union," added Pickerel. "All taxpayers >>>> should have the opportunity to compete fairly on any project funded by >>>> the federal government." >>>> >>>> A union-only PLA is a contract that requires a federal construction >>>> project to be awarded only to contractors and subcontractors that >>>> agree to recognize unions as the representatives of their employees on >>>> that job; use the union hiring hall to obtain workers; pay union wages >>>> and benefits; and obey the union's restrictive work rules, job >>>> classifications and arbitration procedures. >>>> >>>> Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) is a national trade >>>> association representing 25,000 merit shop construction and >>>> construction-related firms in 79 chapters across the United States. >>>> Visit us at www.abc.org. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 22:50:10 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 21:50:10 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - South Carolina Wisdom Message-ID: <400985d70902081950h5fc3930dtcbaf75245f7162fb@mail.gmail.com> I know you guys in SC are short on water, but bottle some of what's left and ship it to the rest of the country. This is one of the simplest and most accurate descriptions of what we're enduring of any I've heard. De-leveraging. That's a term we'll be studying in economics textbooks decades from now. We enjoyed a "bubble economy" because of too much borrowed money, especially banks and Fannie and Freddie. So, we're going to borrow more money to end the suffering? I don't think so. The "stimulus" bill is nothing more than reparations payments, it has nothing to do with economic stimulus. And now, the Gov. of South Carolina - http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/02/08/sotu.sanford.stimulus.cnn Brad From sanderico1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 23:04:18 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:04:18 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - South Carolina Wisdom In-Reply-To: <400985d70902081950h5fc3930dtcbaf75245f7162fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902081950h5fc3930dtcbaf75245f7162fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498FAB42.2030306@gmail.com> Brad, Geez, a governor with some sense .... who'd a thunk it??? We were talking about where to go before. Maybe we should go there. Seems we see eye to eye. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > I know you guys in SC are short on water, but bottle some of what's > left and ship it to the rest of the country. This is one of the > simplest and most accurate descriptions of what we're enduring of any > I've heard. De-leveraging. That's a term we'll be studying in > economics textbooks decades from now. We enjoyed a "bubble economy" > because of too much borrowed money, especially banks and Fannie and > Freddie. So, we're going to borrow more money to end the suffering? > I don't think so. The "stimulus" bill is nothing more than > reparations payments, it has nothing to do with economic stimulus. > And now, the Gov. of South Carolina - > > http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/02/08/sotu.sanford.stimulus.cnn > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 07:46:24 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 06:46:24 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] "Stimulus" Bill Explained - Chicago Style Patronage Message-ID: <400985d70902090446y3a0e3580o8048ed5cd0f47c29@mail.gmail.com> You may be asking yourself, how can a bill be called a "stimulus" bill when the bulk of the spending won't take place until years 3 and four after its passage? Here's your answer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGafMHsV4Ug&feature=email Why would the government fund ACORN to the tune of 4 Billion (that's a capital B folks) when ACORN has only received 53 million in government funding since their founding in 1970? BTW, ACORN is under investigation in 14 states and a RICO investigation in Ohio. What did Senator Clair McCaskill (D-MO) mean when she said whatever monies get stripped out of the "stimulus" bill will be added back in appropriations down the road? Welcome to Chicago! Brad From flybrad at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 16:31:14 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:31:14 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Israel - The Other Michael Message-ID: <400985d70902091331r47a9e58fk168631ed7d471ddb@mail.gmail.com> You should know Yon by now. Get to know Totten. He was the second best correspondent from Iraq. I'm sending the link so you can get the photos. http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2009/02/a-dispatch-from.php I know, times are hard and the money is tight, but the Michaels work off of donations. Donate if you can. Brad From tootle at charter.net Mon Feb 9 20:17:23 2009 From: tootle at charter.net (tootle) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:17:23 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - South Carolina Wisdom (the man with the pigs) Message-ID: <06AC93B11F0343418FEF35292B7CC64F@YOURB88038198E> Brad and Rik, The governor of South Carolina is quite good. I have heard him speak several times. There is a problem. We have term limits on the Governor -- two terms. He is in the middle of his second term. He has already spent 6 years in congress and I doubt he would run against an incumbent for his old seat, although he is much more dynamic than the current guy. The next Senator to come for relection is Jim Demint. Jim is the guy who I rountinely work out with. He is one of the best younger Senators. He is also a friend of Stanford, so I doubt that Stanford would run against him. If you recall, Jim wrote a book which I recommended last year. Over the Christmas recess he was working very hard on his next book. The Governor was in the news a few years ago. He made the news when he carried two pigs into the Legislature, one for the house and one for the Senate. He was emphasing the pork in the budget that they sent him. I will be interesting to see what he does in two years. But as you see in the UTube clip he is a conservative fellow traveler. Ed K Addendum: "If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians." Warren Buffett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090209/76e0ae75/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090209/76e0ae75/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release Date: 02/09/09 06:50:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 09:01:14 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:01:14 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! Message-ID: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. Or, are you just full of it? Brad --------------- Commentary online SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, he wished to reserve judgment. He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of our attention will be back in action, aroused. Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. _____________ When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work on their own; they will need help. Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they depleted what savings they had. Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become a good deal larger than it is. Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into the system quickly enough. The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, create their own busts. In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and spending policies pull us out of the slump? _____________ The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and health-care benefits. Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability and may have actually been destabilizing." _____________ A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are fortunate if we foresee them. To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist Henry Hazlitt in 1946. Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he now favored tax cuts and government spending. The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign of coming down." The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. _____________ On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. Said Hayek: If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this for his plants. What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have someone blow in our ear. In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their cash, and invest in future years." Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner careful, sensible, and unstimulated. About the Author James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth Institute, which promotes global economic development. Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor Let us know what you think! Send an email to editor at commentarymagazine.com Footnotes 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never been seriously challenged. Commentary (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 10:35:30 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:35:30 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Creeping Socialism? Message-ID: <400985d70902100735u2d7ece0bxa78f43f6eafed992@mail.gmail.com> Creeping socialism my ass! This is more like overnight socialism. It hasn't worked anywhere else at any time in history, but what the hell, maybe it will work this time. You elect a socialist as President and you get, uhhhh, socialism? Duh! Of course, it didn't work in Barry's backyard either (remember the 160 million bucks he and his buddy Bill Ayers ran through?) but at least he got a nice house and Mrs. O got a cushy job. Does any of this surprise you? It doesn't me, I just thought it would take a bit longer. Talk amongst yourselves, comrades, I've got to go teach (while I've still got a job in this country). The history of this crap sandwich is below. Brad ------------------ $56 BILLION POLITICO: "Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.) today announced a $56.2 billion stimulus package." ("Second stimulus announced," Politico, 09/25/08) $61 BILLION CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY: "The House Friday passed a $60.8 billion economic stimulus package designed to pump money into infrastructure projects, unemployment insurance and Medicaid, but a similar measure failed to advance in the Senate." ("House Passes Stimulus Measure; Senate Proposal Fails," CQ, 09/26/08) $100 BILLION MCCLATCHY: "Washington is poised during the next 90 days to approve spending perhaps $100 billion to jolt the ailing economy." ("Can a $100 billion stimulus save a $14 trillion economy?," McClatchy, 11/09/08) $150 BILLION DENVER POST: "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called for a new $150 billion economic-stimulus package today and suggested Congress may need to act this year." ("Pelosi: New stimulus package needed," Denver Post, 10/08/08) $200 BILLION WASHINGTON TIMES: "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi vowed Wednesday to hold a lame-duck session to pass a $200 billion economic-stimulus package likely to include rebates to middle-class taxpayers, despite recent failure to enact less ambitious plans and Republican charges it is a 'spending hike to exploit the nation's economic troubles.'" (" Lame-duck session eyed to OK stimulus," Washington Times, 10/16/08) $300 BILLION WASHINGTON POST: "With fears rising that the nation stands on the precipice of a prolonged recession, House Democrats are contemplating a huge infusion of public cash ? as much as $300 billion ? to stoke economic growth by creating public jobs and padding the wallets of struggling consumers." ("House Democrats Consider Large, New Economic Stimulus Package," Washington Post, 10/14/08) $400 BILLION THE NEW YORK TIMES: "The programs will be a part of a larger economic stimulus package whose outlines are faint but which is expected to cost $400 billion to $500 billion." ("Proposal Ties Economic Stimulus to Energy Plan," The New York Times, 12/04/08) $500 BILLION MCCLATCHY: "President-elect Barack Obama and Democratic congressional leaders have agreed to a $500 billion economic-stimulus package that they want to move next month even before Obama takes office." ("Obama, Democrats Agree to $500 Billion Stimulus Package," McClatchy, 12/13/08) $600 BILLION POLITICO: "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has increased the size of the economic stimulus package she will support when Congress reconvenes next month, saying it will need to be $500 billion to $600 billion." ("Pelosi sees bigger, greener stimulus," Politico, 12/12/08) $700 BILLION WASHINGTON POST: "Facing an increasingly ominous economic outlook, President-elect Barack Obama and other Democrats are rapidly ratcheting up plans for a massive fiscal stimulus program that could total as much as $700 billion over the next two years." ("Democrats' Stimulus Plan May Reach $700 Billion," Washington Post, 11/24/08) $775 BILLION WALL STREET JOURNAL: "President-elect Barack Obama's economic team is crafting a stimulus package to send to Congress worth between $675 billion and $775 billion over two years, according to officials familiar with the package..." ("Stimulus Package Heads Toward $850 Billion," The Wall Street Journal, 12/19/09) $800 BILLION THE NEW YORK TIMES: "Ask just about anyone in Washington involved in the $800-billion-plus economic stimulus legislation churning its way through Congress and they will tell you it is a milestone ? but without question the less expensive, and politically and technically less chancy, part of the Great National Bailout of 2009." ("Spending More Than $800 Billion Is the Easy Part," The New York Times, 02/08/09) Hat Tip Larwyn From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 10:55:11 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:55:11 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! In-Reply-To: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com> Brad, MAN .... you tickled my rant bone. Yesterday we were down in St. Cloud visiting my bride's best friend. As we got started driving back home we were listening to MPR. Of course, as usual they had found themselves a "victim" of the mortgage crisis to talk about. Their subject (one of them) was a young man from Indiana a couple years out of school with an engineering degree and a job that paid him about 40K a year. Now, I have been led to believe that in order to get an engineering degree you had to be a bit more than competent at basic math. They told how this young fellow went out, bought and financed a .... get this $465,000 dollar house and now was afraid he was going to lose it because .... well DUH, he couldn't afford the payments. Interestingly enough he got his loan from Indymac, what a surprise, eh. So anyway, I'm driving along listening to this and thinking lets see, 465,000 even if he got a 5% loan jeez, that'd be a couple thousand bucks a month in interest and if your gonna' ever hope to pay it off you're gonna have to throw another 500 or so at the principal. So we're up to 2500, Taxes on a 465,000 house gotta be another 500 bucks a month, insurance, I can't imagine getting that for less than a couple hundred bucks a month. So, we're up to what ...3200 or so. Now 40 (income) divided by 12 is about 3 1/3 so monthly income before taxes is about 3,333, whack off 1/4 or so for the gov't and your down to about 2500 a month ..... UH, what's wrong with this picture??? Now, I'm driving in a god damned rain storm in the dark, I graduated from high school way back when, just barely, and in less than 5 minutes, I can figure out in my head that it is not possible for this young man to ever own this house. I'm sorry, but this guy (and his banker) is too stupid to save. But that leaves one really big question .... How in the world could he possibly have gotten a degree in engineering??? What the hell are we teaching these people??? rant off Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, > not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it > if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass > and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, > we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy > every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, > if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance > you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real > estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple > read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening > of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I > agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your > solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? > Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated > from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. > Or, are you just full of it? > > Brad > > --------------- > > > Commentary online > SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly > James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 > > Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his > plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be > discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, > its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his > project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume > through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming > and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, > he wished to reserve judgment. > > He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid > metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my > economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, > one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up > polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, > or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of > our attention will be back in action, aroused. > > Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, > what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should > begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead > batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer > no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out > to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For > three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it > diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion > about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and > duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on > the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a > Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, > wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of > the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." > > Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. > > _____________ > > > > When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to > be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the > slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not > have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling > to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who > said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was > that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and > just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work > on their own; they will need help. > > Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, > buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, > when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At > the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by > doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two > forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine > to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start > borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, > however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but > businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to > invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing > workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they > lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they > depleted what savings they had. > > Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not > invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. > The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of > Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: > > If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury > them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to > the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on > well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . > . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the > repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become > a good deal larger than it is. > > Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying > of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would > both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At > first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when > pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in > response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into > the system quickly enough. > > The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears > distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed > stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about > lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It > appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an > effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the > tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates > far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to > 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making > credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, > and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled > money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and > loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, > create their own busts. > > In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to > shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset > Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. > Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their > past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still > do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and > remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking > system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate > the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, > had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in > which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and > spending policies pull us out of the slump? > > _____________ > > > > The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's > aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell > only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In > the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the > economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great > Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the > conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, > beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years > before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from > the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal > stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own > metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the > case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during > the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the > unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to > provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. > > But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal > spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of > the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it > does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much > in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists > today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget > deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 > percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in > current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending > during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine > it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and > health-care benefits. > > Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy > non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent > recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won > experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that > attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to > monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in > unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at > best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern > University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now > widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy > is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then > president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal > stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability > and may have actually been destabilizing." > > _____________ > > > > A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is > the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th > century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, > > an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one > effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is > immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The > other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are > fortunate if we foresee them. > > To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal > breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the > glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then > has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is > unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that > he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The > broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most > persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist > Henry Hazlitt in 1946. > > Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) > do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, > government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the > unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the > anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, > which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes > people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing > it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 > > Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power > of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of > the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a > conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest > rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve > Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus > "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite > viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the > Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can > provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary > policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic > Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he > now favored tax cuts and government spending. > > The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must > be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories > is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. > Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald > Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts > currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on > defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, > now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and > Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current > Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and > instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue > short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. > > Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree > of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To > his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January > paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government > spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a > level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign > of coming down." > > The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of > fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit > to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will > produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this > fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or > ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf > were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. > > _____________ > > > > On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von > Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe > limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this > failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely > connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the > procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt > which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply > cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the > President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) > at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. > Said Hayek: > > If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve > the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other > fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he > cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the > events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can > achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his > handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the > appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this > for his plants. > > What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a > crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in > full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the > United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of > last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates > or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge > from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. > Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial > calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car > battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have > someone blow in our ear. > > In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than > getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to > learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, > not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, > her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting > and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in > fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their > cash, and invest in future years." > > Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past > half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start > having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. > Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find > its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his > history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and > renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." > But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was > missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle > bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more > government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." > > Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of > speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is > unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and > anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such > circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for > spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed > ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good > reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building > highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term > interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can > boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, > again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming > Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that > the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of > years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner > careful, sensible, and unstimulated. > About the Author > > James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public > Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth > Institute, which promotes global economic development. > Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor > > Let us know what you think! Send an email to editor at commentarymagazine.com > Footnotes > > 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 > percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published > by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people > make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, > rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by > Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never > been seriously challenged. > Commentary > > (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From ekroposki at charter.net Tue Feb 10 12:52:07 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:52:07 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Brad, a reply about Socialism Message-ID: <1C24317629E444D489050B72EF39070D@YOURB88038198E> Brad, Now you know why they did not want you on the Rhodes List. Now you know why they shouted you down with the troll. Read Alinsky's rules. Read Norman Thomas on changing USA into Communist state. Read Nikita Khrushchev's address to the communist party congress of the Soviet Union. Welcome to United Socialist States of America. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: 02/09/09 06:50:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 15:22:40 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:22:40 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Brad, a reply about Socialism In-Reply-To: <1C24317629E444D489050B72EF39070D@YOURB88038198E> References: <1C24317629E444D489050B72EF39070D@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d70902101222o7af32a63l19adee9d1f230122@mail.gmail.com> Ed, One of the most important concepts I learned in Cockpit Defense school is the "the mind of the survivor" concept. Breath slowly, control your breathing (that's one of the few things you have control of early in the fight), don't resist initially until you've developed a plan. Co-operate, but don't co-operate the way we did pre 9/11 by hoping for a peaceful outcome. One must wait for the opportune moment. I see what's going on here and I don't like it one bit. I really do miss Mr. Shen. He could explain this in such clarity, having lived through nearly identical circumstances. The bastards won't wear me down. You can kill me, but you can't kill my spirit! What happened to the troll after 4NOV08? Are you people that stupid? Don't answer that. Welcome to "1984". Brad On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > Brad, > > > Now you know why they did not want you on the Rhodes List. Now you know why > they shouted you down with the troll. Read Alinsky's rules. Read Norman > Thomas on changing USA into Communist state. Read Nikita Khrushchev's > address to the communist party congress of the Soviet Union. Welcome to > United Socialist States of America. > > > > Ed K > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: 02/09/09 > 06:50:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 15:46:55 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:46:55 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! In-Reply-To: <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com> References: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902101246n5573aa04l3970f250da4e7539@mail.gmail.com> Rik, Just prior to 9/11, when employees could still jumpseat on company aircraft, I walked out to the jet one morning and found this young "slant-eyed" girl sleeping on the row of seats behind the cockpit. I woke her up and asked her, "who the hell are you and why are you sleeping on my jet?" She told her story, I invited her to the cockpit for the trip home, and somewhere along the way asked the question, "where's the best Chinese food in Memphis?" When she answered wrong she was invited to our house and she and Fan became friends despite the fact she was Southern Chinese and Fan is Beijing Chinese. My "cockpit sleeper" was three weeks away from entering Harvard MBA school, and for the next two years I flew the Boston trip a couple of times a year for beer and company. I was already working on my MBA so it was fun to compare notes. My father, 8th grade educated, could run circles around the average Harvard graduate (take your pick between Business or Law). Now these leeches on society think they have a better plan. Tell you what, why don't I rent an 18-wheeler, you give them 30 minutes of instruction, and we'll turn them loose on a trip from New York City to Los Angeles. I'm betting they don't get as far as the end of the block. Folks, you voted for this! You bet your ass I'll survive it. Will you? Brad On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > Brad, > > MAN .... you tickled my rant bone. > > Yesterday we were down in St. Cloud visiting my bride's best friend. As > we got started driving back home we were listening to MPR. Of course, as > usual they had found themselves a "victim" of the mortgage crisis to > talk about. > > Their subject (one of them) was a young man from Indiana a couple years > out of school with an engineering degree and a job that paid him about > 40K a year. Now, I have been led to believe that in order to get an > engineering degree you had to be a bit more than competent at basic > math. They told how this young fellow went out, bought and financed a > .... get this $465,000 dollar house and now was afraid he was going to > lose it because .... well DUH, he couldn't afford the payments. > Interestingly enough he got his loan from Indymac, what a surprise, eh. > > So anyway, I'm driving along listening to this and thinking lets see, > 465,000 even if he got a 5% loan jeez, that'd be a couple thousand bucks > a month in interest and if your gonna' ever hope to pay it off you're > gonna have to throw another 500 or so at the principal. So we're up to > 2500, Taxes on a 465,000 house gotta be another 500 bucks a month, > insurance, I can't imagine getting that for less than a couple hundred > bucks a month. So, we're up to what ...3200 or so. Now 40 (income) > divided by 12 is about 3 1/3 so monthly income before taxes is about > 3,333, whack off 1/4 or so for the gov't and your down to about 2500 a > month ..... UH, what's wrong with this picture??? > > Now, I'm driving in a god damned rain storm in the dark, I graduated > from high school way back when, just barely, and in less than 5 minutes, > I can figure out in my head that it is not possible for this young man > to ever own this house. I'm sorry, but this guy (and his banker) is too > stupid to save. But that leaves one really big question .... How in the > world could he possibly have gotten a degree in engineering??? What the > hell are we teaching these people??? > > rant off > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, >> not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it >> if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass >> and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, >> we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy >> every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, >> if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance >> you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real >> estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple >> read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening >> of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I >> agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your >> solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? >> Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated >> from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. >> Or, are you just full of it? >> >> Brad >> >> --------------- >> >> >> Commentary online >> SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly >> James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 >> >> Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his >> plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be >> discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, >> its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his >> project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume >> through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming >> and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, >> he wished to reserve judgment. >> >> He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid >> metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my >> economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, >> one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up >> polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, >> or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of >> our attention will be back in action, aroused. >> >> Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, >> what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should >> begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead >> batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer >> no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out >> to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For >> three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it >> diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion >> about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and >> duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on >> the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a >> Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, >> wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of >> the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." >> >> Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to >> be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the >> slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not >> have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling >> to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who >> said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was >> that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and >> just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work >> on their own; they will need help. >> >> Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, >> buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, >> when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At >> the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by >> doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two >> forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine >> to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start >> borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, >> however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but >> businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to >> invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing >> workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they >> lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they >> depleted what savings they had. >> >> Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not >> invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. >> The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of >> Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: >> >> If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury >> them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to >> the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on >> well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . >> . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the >> repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become >> a good deal larger than it is. >> >> Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying >> of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would >> both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At >> first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when >> pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in >> response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into >> the system quickly enough. >> >> The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears >> distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed >> stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about >> lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It >> appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an >> effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the >> tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates >> far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to >> 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making >> credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, >> and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled >> money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and >> loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, >> create their own busts. >> >> In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to >> shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset >> Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. >> Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their >> past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still >> do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and >> remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking >> system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate >> the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, >> had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in >> which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and >> spending policies pull us out of the slump? >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's >> aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell >> only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In >> the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the >> economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great >> Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the >> conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, >> beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years >> before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from >> the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal >> stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own >> metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the >> case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during >> the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the >> unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to >> provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. >> >> But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal >> spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of >> the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it >> does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much >> in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists >> today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget >> deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 >> percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in >> current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending >> during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine >> it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and >> health-care benefits. >> >> Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy >> non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent >> recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won >> experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that >> attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to >> monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in >> unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at >> best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern >> University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now >> widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy >> is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then >> president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal >> stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability >> and may have actually been destabilizing." >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is >> the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th >> century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, >> >> an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one >> effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is >> immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The >> other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are >> fortunate if we foresee them. >> >> To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal >> breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the >> glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then >> has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is >> unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that >> he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The >> broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most >> persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist >> Henry Hazlitt in 1946. >> >> Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) >> do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, >> government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the >> unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the >> anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, >> which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes >> people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing >> it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 >> >> Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power >> of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of >> the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a >> conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest >> rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve >> Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus >> "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite >> viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the >> Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can >> provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary >> policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic >> Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he >> now favored tax cuts and government spending. >> >> The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must >> be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories >> is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. >> Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald >> Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts >> currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on >> defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, >> now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and >> Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current >> Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and >> instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue >> short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. >> >> Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree >> of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To >> his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January >> paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government >> spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a >> level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign >> of coming down." >> >> The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of >> fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit >> to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will >> produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this >> fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or >> ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf >> were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von >> Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe >> limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this >> failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely >> connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the >> procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt >> which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply >> cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the >> President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) >> at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. >> Said Hayek: >> >> If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve >> the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other >> fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he >> cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the >> events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can >> achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his >> handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the >> appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this >> for his plants. >> >> What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a >> crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in >> full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the >> United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of >> last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates >> or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge >> from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. >> Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial >> calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car >> battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have >> someone blow in our ear. >> >> In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than >> getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to >> learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, >> not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, >> her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting >> and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in >> fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their >> cash, and invest in future years." >> >> Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past >> half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start >> having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. >> Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find >> its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his >> history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and >> renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." >> But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was >> missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle >> bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more >> government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." >> >> Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of >> speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is >> unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and >> anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such >> circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for >> spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed >> ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good >> reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building >> highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term >> interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can >> boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, >> again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming >> Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that >> the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of >> years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner >> careful, sensible, and unstimulated. >> About the Author >> >> James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public >> Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth >> Institute, which promotes global economic development. >> Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor >> >> Let us know what you think! Send an email to editor at commentarymagazine.com >> Footnotes >> >> 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 >> percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published >> by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people >> make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, >> rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by >> Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never >> been seriously challenged. >> Commentary >> >> (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Tue Feb 10 16:02:10 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:02:10 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Brad, a reply about Socialism References: <1C24317629E444D489050B72EF39070D@YOURB88038198E> <400985d70902101222o7af32a63l19adee9d1f230122@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <82AE3E722D39498CA7164584EE275332@ebsoffice> Brad, Did you hear the unmistakable clicking sound, too? Oh, I forgot, they no longer need to "tap" email communications. Mike From: "Brad Haslett" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:22 PM > Ed, > > One of the most important concepts I learned in Cockpit Defense school > is the "the mind of the survivor" concept. Breath slowly, control > your breathing (that's one of the few things you have control of early > in the fight), don't resist initially until you've developed a plan. > Co-operate, but don't co-operate the way we did pre 9/11 by hoping for > a peaceful outcome. One must wait for the opportune moment. I see > what's going on here and I don't like it one bit. I really do miss > Mr. Shen. He could explain this in such clarity, having lived through > nearly identical circumstances. > > The bastards won't wear me down. You can kill me, but you can't kill my > spirit! > > What happened to the troll after 4NOV08? Are you people that stupid? > > Don't answer that. Welcome to "1984". > > Brad > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Ed Kroposki > wrote: >> Brad, >> >> >> Now you know why they did not want you on the Rhodes List. Now you know >> why >> they shouted you down with the troll. Read Alinsky's rules. Read Norman >> Thomas on changing USA into Communist state. Read Nikita Khrushchev's >> address to the communist party congress of the Soviet Union. Welcome to >> United Socialist States of America. >> >> >> >> Ed K >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: >> 02/09/09 >> 06:50:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Tue Feb 10 16:11:28 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:11:28 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! References: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <69A70109E96E49F1BBBE6DD3AFF02798@ebsoffice> Rik, You do not want to even see what they attempt to "design" with all their fancy book knowledge and computer programs to back them up. I am a child of the 50s and learned computers, engineering & medicine the old fashioned way. I started as an apprentice in a TV repair shop (remember when folks kept appliances instead of tossing them?) when I was 12 to learn how not to design electronic products. I continued to learn from "masters" even as a postdoc. This is how one attains "mastery" instead of mystery in one's chosen field. The kids today are handed a second rate education, some of the best tools ever built and are told to go get them! Most of them have no clue as to where to start. They all think that they are worth $100K the first day, even though none of them want to think again. Just hand 'em the bucks! After all, they got a degree and "deserve a great job!" It doesn't surprise me that this guy was sold a bill of goods by a sleazy mortgage bunker. He probably still has no idea why it didn't work out. Mike From: "Rik Sandberg" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:55 AM Brad, MAN .... you tickled my rant bone. Yesterday we were down in St. Cloud visiting my bride's best friend. As we got started driving back home we were listening to MPR. Of course, as usual they had found themselves a "victim" of the mortgage crisis to talk about. Their subject (one of them) was a young man from Indiana a couple years out of school with an engineering degree and a job that paid him about 40K a year. Now, I have been led to believe that in order to get an engineering degree you had to be a bit more than competent at basic math. They told how this young fellow went out, bought and financed a .... get this $465,000 dollar house and now was afraid he was going to lose it because .... well DUH, he couldn't afford the payments. Interestingly enough he got his loan from Indymac, what a surprise, eh. So anyway, I'm driving along listening to this and thinking lets see, 465,000 even if he got a 5% loan jeez, that'd be a couple thousand bucks a month in interest and if your gonna' ever hope to pay it off you're gonna have to throw another 500 or so at the principal. So we're up to 2500, Taxes on a 465,000 house gotta be another 500 bucks a month, insurance, I can't imagine getting that for less than a couple hundred bucks a month. So, we're up to what ...3200 or so. Now 40 (income) divided by 12 is about 3 1/3 so monthly income before taxes is about 3,333, whack off 1/4 or so for the gov't and your down to about 2500 a month ..... UH, what's wrong with this picture??? Now, I'm driving in a god damned rain storm in the dark, I graduated from high school way back when, just barely, and in less than 5 minutes, I can figure out in my head that it is not possible for this young man to ever own this house. I'm sorry, but this guy (and his banker) is too stupid to save. But that leaves one really big question .... How in the world could he possibly have gotten a degree in engineering??? What the hell are we teaching these people??? rant off Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Brad Haslett wrote: > Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, > not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it > if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass > and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, > we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy > every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, > if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance > you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real > estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple > read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening > of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I > agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your > solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? > Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated > from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. > Or, are you just full of it? > > Brad > > --------------- > > > Commentary online > SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly > James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 > > Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his > plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be > discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, > its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his > project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume > through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming > and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, > he wished to reserve judgment. > > He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid > metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my > economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, > one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up > polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, > or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of > our attention will be back in action, aroused. > > Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, > what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should > begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead > batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer > no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out > to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For > three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it > diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion > about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and > duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on > the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a > Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, > wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of > the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." > > Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. > > _____________ > > > > When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to > be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the > slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not > have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling > to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who > said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was > that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and > just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work > on their own; they will need help. > > Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, > buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, > when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At > the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by > doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two > forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine > to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start > borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, > however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but > businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to > invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing > workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they > lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they > depleted what savings they had. > > Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not > invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. > The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of > Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: > > If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury > them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to > the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on > well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . > . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the > repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become > a good deal larger than it is. > > Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying > of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would > both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At > first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when > pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in > response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into > the system quickly enough. > > The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears > distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed > stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about > lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It > appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an > effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the > tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates > far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to > 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making > credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, > and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled > money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and > loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, > create their own busts. > > In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to > shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset > Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. > Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their > past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still > do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and > remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking > system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate > the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, > had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in > which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and > spending policies pull us out of the slump? > > _____________ > > > > The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's > aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell > only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In > the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the > economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great > Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the > conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, > beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years > before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from > the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal > stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own > metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the > case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during > the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the > unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to > provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. > > But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal > spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of > the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it > does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much > in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists > today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget > deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 > percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in > current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending > during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine > it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and > health-care benefits. > > Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy > non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent > recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won > experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that > attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to > monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in > unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at > best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern > University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now > widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy > is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then > president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal > stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability > and may have actually been destabilizing." > > _____________ > > > > A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is > the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th > century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, > > an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one > effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is > immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The > other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are > fortunate if we foresee them. > > To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal > breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the > glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then > has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is > unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that > he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The > broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most > persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist > Henry Hazlitt in 1946. > > Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) > do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, > government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the > unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the > anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, > which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes > people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing > it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 > > Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power > of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of > the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a > conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest > rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve > Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus > "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite > viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the > Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can > provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary > policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic > Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he > now favored tax cuts and government spending. > > The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must > be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories > is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. > Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald > Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts > currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on > defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, > now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and > Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current > Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and > instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue > short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. > > Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree > of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To > his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January > paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government > spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a > level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign > of coming down." > > The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of > fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit > to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will > produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this > fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or > ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf > were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. > > _____________ > > > > On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von > Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe > limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this > failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely > connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the > procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt > which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply > cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the > President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) > at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. > Said Hayek: > > If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve > the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other > fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he > cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the > events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can > achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his > handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the > appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this > for his plants. > > What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a > crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in > full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the > United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of > last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates > or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge > from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. > Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial > calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car > battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have > someone blow in our ear. > > In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than > getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to > learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, > not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, > her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting > and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in > fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their > cash, and invest in future years." > > Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past > half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start > having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. > Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find > its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his > history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and > renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." > But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was > missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle > bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more > government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." > > Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of > speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is > unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and > anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such > circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for > spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed > ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good > reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building > highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term > interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can > boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, > again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming > Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that > the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of > years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner > careful, sensible, and unstimulated. > About the Author > > James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public > Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth > Institute, which promotes global economic development. > Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor > > Let us know what you think! Send an email to editor at commentarymagazine.com > Footnotes > > 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 > percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published > by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people > make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, > rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by > Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never > been seriously challenged. > Commentary > > (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette From flybrad at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 16:44:27 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:44:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! In-Reply-To: <69A70109E96E49F1BBBE6DD3AFF02798@ebsoffice> References: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com> <69A70109E96E49F1BBBE6DD3AFF02798@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <400985d70902101344w2e04333br25af26964bb740e5@mail.gmail.com> Mike, At the risk of going off on a tangent, there was a TV repair shop a block from my house on US40. This was a guy who brought a big mirror to your house and fiddled with your TV from the back whilst working on the monster (not the screen size, the cabinet size). I grew-up (using the term loosely) across from the farm implement dealer and a machine shop, and both were more interesting than the TV repair shop on most days. Mr. Ledbetter, (TV repairman) was very tolerant of my "thousand questions" and loaned me electronic manuals (old WW2 training stuff) just to silence me and get me out of his shop. Actually, he was quite lonely and would entertain me for hours. What did I learn from that experience? Well, I cobbled together a radio with copper wire wound around a toilet-paper tube. It was a good learning experience. If your electronic device malfunctions, go to WalMart and buy a new one! My farmer buddies didn't fare so well. Many, if not most, went to work in the Caterpillar factory in Decatur, IL and some retired from CAT and some didn't, but almost none are still farming. Farming is a full time government job and most don't possess the talent. Where were we? Oh yeah, Mr. Ledbetter's shop. Where were we? Brad On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Rik, > > You do not want to even see what they attempt to "design" with all their > fancy book knowledge and computer programs to back them up. I am a child of > the 50s and learned computers, engineering & medicine the old fashioned way. > I started as an apprentice in a TV repair shop (remember when folks kept > appliances instead of tossing them?) when I was 12 to learn how not to > design electronic products. I continued to learn from "masters" even as a > postdoc. This is how one attains "mastery" instead of mystery in one's > chosen field. > > The kids today are handed a second rate education, some of the best tools > ever built and are told to go get them! Most of them have no clue as to > where to start. They all think that they are worth $100K the first day, > even though none of them want to think again. Just hand 'em the bucks! > After all, they got a degree and "deserve a great job!" > > It doesn't surprise me that this guy was sold a bill of goods by a sleazy > mortgage bunker. He probably still has no idea why it didn't work out. > > Mike > > From: "Rik Sandberg" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:55 AM > Brad, > > MAN .... you tickled my rant bone. > > Yesterday we were down in St. Cloud visiting my bride's best friend. As > we got started driving back home we were listening to MPR. Of course, as > usual they had found themselves a "victim" of the mortgage crisis to > talk about. > > Their subject (one of them) was a young man from Indiana a couple years > out of school with an engineering degree and a job that paid him about > 40K a year. Now, I have been led to believe that in order to get an > engineering degree you had to be a bit more than competent at basic > math. They told how this young fellow went out, bought and financed a > .... get this $465,000 dollar house and now was afraid he was going to > lose it because .... well DUH, he couldn't afford the payments. > Interestingly enough he got his loan from Indymac, what a surprise, eh. > > So anyway, I'm driving along listening to this and thinking lets see, > 465,000 even if he got a 5% loan jeez, that'd be a couple thousand bucks > a month in interest and if your gonna' ever hope to pay it off you're > gonna have to throw another 500 or so at the principal. So we're up to > 2500, Taxes on a 465,000 house gotta be another 500 bucks a month, > insurance, I can't imagine getting that for less than a couple hundred > bucks a month. So, we're up to what ...3200 or so. Now 40 (income) > divided by 12 is about 3 1/3 so monthly income before taxes is about > 3,333, whack off 1/4 or so for the gov't and your down to about 2500 a > month ..... UH, what's wrong with this picture??? > > Now, I'm driving in a god damned rain storm in the dark, I graduated > from high school way back when, just barely, and in less than 5 minutes, > I can figure out in my head that it is not possible for this young man > to ever own this house. I'm sorry, but this guy (and his banker) is too > stupid to save. But that leaves one really big question .... How in the > world could he possibly have gotten a degree in engineering??? What the > hell are we teaching these people??? > > rant off > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a > beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, >> not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it >> if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass >> and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, >> we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy >> every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, >> if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance >> you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real >> estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple >> read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening >> of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I >> agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your >> solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? >> Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated >> from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. >> Or, are you just full of it? >> >> Brad >> >> --------------- >> >> >> Commentary online >> SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly >> James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 >> >> Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his >> plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be >> discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, >> its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his >> project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume >> through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming >> and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, >> he wished to reserve judgment. >> >> He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid >> metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my >> economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, >> one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up >> polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, >> or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of >> our attention will be back in action, aroused. >> >> Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, >> what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should >> begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead >> batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer >> no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out >> to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For >> three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it >> diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion >> about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and >> duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on >> the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a >> Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, >> wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of >> the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." >> >> Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to >> be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the >> slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not >> have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling >> to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who >> said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was >> that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and >> just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work >> on their own; they will need help. >> >> Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, >> buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, >> when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At >> the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by >> doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two >> forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine >> to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start >> borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, >> however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but >> businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to >> invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing >> workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they >> lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they >> depleted what savings they had. >> >> Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not >> invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. >> The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of >> Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: >> >> If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury >> them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to >> the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on >> well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . >> . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the >> repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become >> a good deal larger than it is. >> >> Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying >> of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would >> both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At >> first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when >> pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in >> response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into >> the system quickly enough. >> >> The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears >> distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed >> stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about >> lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It >> appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an >> effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the >> tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates >> far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to >> 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making >> credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, >> and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled >> money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and >> loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, >> create their own busts. >> >> In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to >> shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset >> Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. >> Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their >> past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still >> do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and >> remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking >> system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate >> the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, >> had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in >> which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and >> spending policies pull us out of the slump? >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's >> aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell >> only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In >> the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the >> economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great >> Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the >> conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, >> beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years >> before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from >> the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal >> stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own >> metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the >> case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during >> the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the >> unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to >> provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. >> >> But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal >> spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of >> the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it >> does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much >> in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists >> today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget >> deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 >> percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in >> current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending >> during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine >> it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and >> health-care benefits. >> >> Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy >> non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent >> recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won >> experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that >> attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to >> monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in >> unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at >> best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern >> University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now >> widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy >> is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then >> president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal >> stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability >> and may have actually been destabilizing." >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is >> the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th >> century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, >> >> an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one >> effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is >> immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The >> other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are >> fortunate if we foresee them. >> >> To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal >> breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the >> glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then >> has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is >> unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that >> he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The >> broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most >> persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist >> Henry Hazlitt in 1946. >> >> Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) >> do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, >> government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the >> unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the >> anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, >> which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes >> people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing >> it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 >> >> Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power >> of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of >> the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a >> conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest >> rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve >> Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus >> "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite >> viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the >> Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can >> provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary >> policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic >> Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he >> now favored tax cuts and government spending. >> >> The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must >> be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories >> is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. >> Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald >> Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts >> currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on >> defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, >> now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and >> Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current >> Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and >> instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue >> short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. >> >> Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree >> of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To >> his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January >> paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government >> spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a >> level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign >> of coming down." >> >> The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of >> fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit >> to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will >> produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this >> fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or >> ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf >> were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von >> Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe >> limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this >> failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely >> connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the >> procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt >> which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply >> cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the >> President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) >> at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. >> Said Hayek: >> >> If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve >> the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other >> fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he >> cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the >> events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can >> achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his >> handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the >> appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this >> for his plants. >> >> What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a >> crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in >> full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the >> United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of >> last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates >> or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge >> from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. >> Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial >> calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car >> battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have >> someone blow in our ear. >> >> In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than >> getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to >> learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, >> not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, >> her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting >> and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in >> fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their >> cash, and invest in future years." >> >> Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past >> half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start >> having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. >> Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find >> its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his >> history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and >> renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." >> But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was >> missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle >> bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more >> government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." >> >> Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of >> speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is >> unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and >> anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such >> circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for >> spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed >> ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good >> reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building >> highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term >> interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can >> boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, >> again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming >> Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that >> the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of >> years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner >> careful, sensible, and unstimulated. >> About the Author >> >> James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public >> Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth >> Institute, which promotes global economic development. >> Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor >> >> Let us know what you think! Send an email to editor at commentarymagazine.com >> Footnotes >> >> 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 >> percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published >> by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people >> make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, >> rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by >> Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never >> been seriously challenged. >> Commentary >> >> (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 17:05:12 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:05:12 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! In-Reply-To: <69A70109E96E49F1BBBE6DD3AFF02798@ebsoffice> References: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com> <69A70109E96E49F1BBBE6DD3AFF02798@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <4991FA18.4080902@gmail.com> Michael, Brings back the old days. Ray Redahlin, Redahlin TV. He used to fix our set for us back in the day. WWII vet with a wooden leg to show for it. Good old guy. Long gone now.... I'm getting to the point where I'd just as soon slap people who try to tell me they "deserve" anything. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Rik, > > You do not want to even see what they attempt to "design" with all their > fancy book knowledge and computer programs to back them up. I am a child of > the 50s and learned computers, engineering & medicine the old fashioned way. > I started as an apprentice in a TV repair shop (remember when folks kept > appliances instead of tossing them?) when I was 12 to learn how not to > design electronic products. I continued to learn from "masters" even as a > postdoc. This is how one attains "mastery" instead of mystery in one's > chosen field. > > The kids today are handed a second rate education, some of the best tools > ever built and are told to go get them! Most of them have no clue as to > where to start. They all think that they are worth $100K the first day, > even though none of them want to think again. Just hand 'em the bucks! > After all, they got a degree and "deserve a great job!" > > It doesn't surprise me that this guy was sold a bill of goods by a sleazy > mortgage bunker. He probably still has no idea why it didn't work out. > > Mike > > From: "Rik Sandberg" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:55 AM > Brad, > > MAN .... you tickled my rant bone. > > Yesterday we were down in St. Cloud visiting my bride's best friend. As > we got started driving back home we were listening to MPR. Of course, as > usual they had found themselves a "victim" of the mortgage crisis to > talk about. > > Their subject (one of them) was a young man from Indiana a couple years > out of school with an engineering degree and a job that paid him about > 40K a year. Now, I have been led to believe that in order to get an > engineering degree you had to be a bit more than competent at basic > math. They told how this young fellow went out, bought and financed a > .... get this $465,000 dollar house and now was afraid he was going to > lose it because .... well DUH, he couldn't afford the payments. > Interestingly enough he got his loan from Indymac, what a surprise, eh. > > So anyway, I'm driving along listening to this and thinking lets see, > 465,000 even if he got a 5% loan jeez, that'd be a couple thousand bucks > a month in interest and if your gonna' ever hope to pay it off you're > gonna have to throw another 500 or so at the principal. So we're up to > 2500, Taxes on a 465,000 house gotta be another 500 bucks a month, > insurance, I can't imagine getting that for less than a couple hundred > bucks a month. So, we're up to what ...3200 or so. Now 40 (income) > divided by 12 is about 3 1/3 so monthly income before taxes is about > 3,333, whack off 1/4 or so for the gov't and your down to about 2500 a > month ..... UH, what's wrong with this picture??? > > Now, I'm driving in a god damned rain storm in the dark, I graduated > from high school way back when, just barely, and in less than 5 minutes, > I can figure out in my head that it is not possible for this young man > to ever own this house. I'm sorry, but this guy (and his banker) is too > stupid to save. But that leaves one really big question .... How in the > world could he possibly have gotten a degree in engineering??? What the > hell are we teaching these people??? > > rant off > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a > beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: > >> Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, >> not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it >> if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass >> and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, >> we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy >> every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, >> if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance >> you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real >> estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple >> read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening >> of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I >> agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your >> solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? >> Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated >> from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. >> Or, are you just full of it? >> >> Brad >> >> --------------- >> >> >> Commentary online >> SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly >> James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 >> >> Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his >> plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be >> discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, >> its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his >> project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume >> through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming >> and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, >> he wished to reserve judgment. >> >> He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid >> metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my >> economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, >> one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up >> polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, >> or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of >> our attention will be back in action, aroused. >> >> Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, >> what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should >> begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead >> batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer >> no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out >> to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For >> three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it >> diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion >> about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and >> duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on >> the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a >> Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, >> wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of >> the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." >> >> Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to >> be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the >> slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not >> have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling >> to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who >> said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was >> that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and >> just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work >> on their own; they will need help. >> >> Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, >> buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, >> when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At >> the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by >> doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two >> forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine >> to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start >> borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, >> however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but >> businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to >> invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing >> workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they >> lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they >> depleted what savings they had. >> >> Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not >> invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. >> The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of >> Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: >> >> If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury >> them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to >> the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on >> well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . >> . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the >> repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become >> a good deal larger than it is. >> >> Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying >> of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would >> both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At >> first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when >> pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in >> response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into >> the system quickly enough. >> >> The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears >> distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed >> stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about >> lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It >> appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an >> effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the >> tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates >> far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to >> 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making >> credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, >> and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled >> money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and >> loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, >> create their own busts. >> >> In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to >> shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset >> Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. >> Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their >> past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still >> do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and >> remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking >> system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate >> the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, >> had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in >> which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and >> spending policies pull us out of the slump? >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's >> aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell >> only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In >> the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the >> economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great >> Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the >> conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, >> beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years >> before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from >> the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal >> stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own >> metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the >> case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during >> the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the >> unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to >> provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. >> >> But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal >> spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of >> the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it >> does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much >> in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists >> today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget >> deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 >> percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in >> current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending >> during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine >> it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and >> health-care benefits. >> >> Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy >> non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent >> recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won >> experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that >> attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to >> monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in >> unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at >> best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern >> University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now >> widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy >> is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then >> president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal >> stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability >> and may have actually been destabilizing." >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is >> the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th >> century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, >> >> an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one >> effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is >> immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The >> other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are >> fortunate if we foresee them. >> >> To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal >> breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the >> glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then >> has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is >> unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that >> he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The >> broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most >> persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist >> Henry Hazlitt in 1946. >> >> Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) >> do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, >> government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the >> unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the >> anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, >> which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes >> people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing >> it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 >> >> Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power >> of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of >> the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a >> conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest >> rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve >> Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus >> "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite >> viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the >> Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can >> provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary >> policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic >> Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he >> now favored tax cuts and government spending. >> >> The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must >> be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories >> is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. >> Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald >> Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts >> currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on >> defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, >> now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and >> Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current >> Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and >> instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue >> short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. >> >> Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree >> of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To >> his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January >> paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government >> spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a >> level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign >> of coming down." >> >> The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of >> fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit >> to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will >> produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this >> fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or >> ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf >> were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von >> Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe >> limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this >> failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely >> connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the >> procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt >> which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply >> cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the >> President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) >> at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. >> Said Hayek: >> >> If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve >> the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other >> fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he >> cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the >> events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can >> achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his >> handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the >> appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this >> for his plants. >> >> What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a >> crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in >> full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the >> United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of >> last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates >> or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge >> from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. >> Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial >> calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car >> battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have >> someone blow in our ear. >> >> In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than >> getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to >> learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, >> not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, >> her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting >> and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in >> fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their >> cash, and invest in future years." >> >> Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past >> half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start >> having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. >> Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find >> its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his >> history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and >> renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." >> But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was >> missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle >> bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more >> government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." >> >> Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of >> speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is >> unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and >> anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such >> circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for >> spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed >> ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good >> reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building >> highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term >> interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can >> boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, >> again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming >> Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that >> the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of >> years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner >> careful, sensible, and unstimulated. >> About the Author >> >> James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public >> Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth >> Institute, which promotes global economic development. >> Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor >> >> Let us know what you think! Send an email to editor at commentarymagazine.com >> Footnotes >> >> 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 >> percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published >> by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people >> make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, >> rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by >> Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never >> been seriously challenged. >> Commentary >> >> (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Tue Feb 10 17:18:55 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:18:55 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! References: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com><69A70109E96E49F1BBBE6DD3AFF02798@ebsoffice> <4991FA18.4080902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <829004095361446FBDAC6FD049C48DCE@ebsoffice> Rik, I almost fell over when my Mom (she's 79) told me last summer that she was driving around south Florida in a "bus" picking up old folks to register them to vote for Obama! I asked her what she would do if they didn't want to vote for Mr. Obama and she said, "I only pick them up. I have no idea how they return home!" She then followed it up with the statement that, after all "we" have done to "them," he DESERVED to be president! ... and then the fight started! Mike From: "Rik Sandberg" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 5:05 PM Michael, Brings back the old days. Ray Redahlin, Redahlin TV. He used to fix our set for us back in the day. WWII vet with a wooden leg to show for it. Good old guy. Long gone now.... I'm getting to the point where I'd just as soon slap people who try to tell me they "deserve" anything. Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Rik, > > You do not want to even see what they attempt to "design" with all their > fancy book knowledge and computer programs to back them up. I am a child > of > the 50s and learned computers, engineering & medicine the old fashioned > way. > I started as an apprentice in a TV repair shop (remember when folks kept > appliances instead of tossing them?) when I was 12 to learn how not to > design electronic products. I continued to learn from "masters" even as a > postdoc. This is how one attains "mastery" instead of mystery in one's > chosen field. > > The kids today are handed a second rate education, some of the best tools > ever built and are told to go get them! Most of them have no clue as to > where to start. They all think that they are worth $100K the first day, > even though none of them want to think again. Just hand 'em the bucks! > After all, they got a degree and "deserve a great job!" > > It doesn't surprise me that this guy was sold a bill of goods by a sleazy > mortgage bunker. He probably still has no idea why it didn't work out. > > Mike > > From: "Rik Sandberg" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:55 AM > Brad, > > MAN .... you tickled my rant bone. > > Yesterday we were down in St. Cloud visiting my bride's best friend. As > we got started driving back home we were listening to MPR. Of course, as > usual they had found themselves a "victim" of the mortgage crisis to > talk about. > > Their subject (one of them) was a young man from Indiana a couple years > out of school with an engineering degree and a job that paid him about > 40K a year. Now, I have been led to believe that in order to get an > engineering degree you had to be a bit more than competent at basic > math. They told how this young fellow went out, bought and financed a > .... get this $465,000 dollar house and now was afraid he was going to > lose it because .... well DUH, he couldn't afford the payments. > Interestingly enough he got his loan from Indymac, what a surprise, eh. > > So anyway, I'm driving along listening to this and thinking lets see, > 465,000 even if he got a 5% loan jeez, that'd be a couple thousand bucks > a month in interest and if your gonna' ever hope to pay it off you're > gonna have to throw another 500 or so at the principal. So we're up to > 2500, Taxes on a 465,000 house gotta be another 500 bucks a month, > insurance, I can't imagine getting that for less than a couple hundred > bucks a month. So, we're up to what ...3200 or so. Now 40 (income) > divided by 12 is about 3 1/3 so monthly income before taxes is about > 3,333, whack off 1/4 or so for the gov't and your down to about 2500 a > month ..... UH, what's wrong with this picture??? > > Now, I'm driving in a god damned rain storm in the dark, I graduated > from high school way back when, just barely, and in less than 5 minutes, > I can figure out in my head that it is not possible for this young man > to ever own this house. I'm sorry, but this guy (and his banker) is too > stupid to save. But that leaves one really big question .... How in the > world could he possibly have gotten a degree in engineering??? What the > hell are we teaching these people??? > > rant off > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a > beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: > >> Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, >> not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it >> if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass >> and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, >> we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy >> every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, >> if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance >> you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real >> estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple >> read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening >> of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I >> agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your >> solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? >> Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated >> from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. >> Or, are you just full of it? >> >> Brad >> >> --------------- >> >> >> Commentary online >> SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly >> James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 >> >> Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his >> plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be >> discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, >> its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his >> project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume >> through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming >> and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, >> he wished to reserve judgment. >> >> He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid >> metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my >> economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, >> one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up >> polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, >> or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of >> our attention will be back in action, aroused. >> >> Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, >> what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should >> begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead >> batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer >> no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out >> to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For >> three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it >> diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion >> about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and >> duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on >> the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a >> Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, >> wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of >> the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." >> >> Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to >> be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the >> slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not >> have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling >> to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who >> said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was >> that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and >> just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work >> on their own; they will need help. >> >> Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, >> buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, >> when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At >> the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by >> doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two >> forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine >> to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start >> borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, >> however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but >> businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to >> invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing >> workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they >> lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they >> depleted what savings they had. >> >> Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not >> invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. >> The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of >> Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: >> >> If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury >> them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to >> the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on >> well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . >> . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the >> repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become >> a good deal larger than it is. >> >> Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying >> of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would >> both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At >> first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when >> pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in >> response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into >> the system quickly enough. >> >> The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears >> distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed >> stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about >> lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It >> appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an >> effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the >> tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates >> far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to >> 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making >> credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, >> and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled >> money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and >> loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, >> create their own busts. >> >> In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to >> shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset >> Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. >> Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their >> past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still >> do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and >> remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking >> system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate >> the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, >> had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in >> which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and >> spending policies pull us out of the slump? >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's >> aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell >> only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In >> the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the >> economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great >> Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the >> conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, >> beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years >> before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from >> the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal >> stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own >> metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the >> case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during >> the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the >> unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to >> provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. >> >> But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal >> spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of >> the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it >> does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much >> in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists >> today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget >> deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 >> percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in >> current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending >> during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine >> it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and >> health-care benefits. >> >> Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy >> non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent >> recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won >> experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that >> attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to >> monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in >> unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at >> best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern >> University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now >> widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy >> is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then >> president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal >> stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability >> and may have actually been destabilizing." >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is >> the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th >> century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, >> >> an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one >> effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is >> immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The >> other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are >> fortunate if we foresee them. >> >> To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal >> breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the >> glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then >> has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is >> unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that >> he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The >> broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most >> persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist >> Henry Hazlitt in 1946. >> >> Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) >> do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, >> government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the >> unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the >> anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, >> which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes >> people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing >> it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 >> >> Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power >> of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of >> the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a >> conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest >> rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve >> Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus >> "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite >> viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the >> Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can >> provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary >> policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic >> Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he >> now favored tax cuts and government spending. >> >> The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must >> be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories >> is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. >> Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald >> Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts >> currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on >> defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, >> now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and >> Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current >> Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and >> instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue >> short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. >> >> Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree >> of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To >> his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January >> paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government >> spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a >> level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign >> of coming down." >> >> The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of >> fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit >> to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will >> produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this >> fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or >> ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf >> were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. >> >> _____________ >> >> >> >> On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von >> Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe >> limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this >> failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely >> connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the >> procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt >> which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply >> cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the >> President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) >> at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. >> Said Hayek: >> >> If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve >> the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other >> fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he >> cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the >> events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can >> achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his >> handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the >> appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this >> for his plants. >> >> What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a >> crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in >> full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the >> United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of >> last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates >> or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge >> from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. >> Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial >> calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car >> battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have >> someone blow in our ear. >> >> In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than >> getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to >> learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, >> not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, >> her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting >> and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in >> fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their >> cash, and invest in future years." >> >> Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past >> half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start >> having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. >> Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find >> its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his >> history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and >> renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." >> But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was >> missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle >> bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more >> government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." >> >> Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of >> speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is >> unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and >> anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such >> circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for >> spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed >> ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good >> reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building >> highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term >> interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can >> boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, >> again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming >> Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that >> the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of >> years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner >> careful, sensible, and unstimulated. >> About the Author >> >> James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public >> Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth >> Institute, which promotes global economic development. >> Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor >> >> Let us know what you think! Send an email to >> editor at commentarymagazine.com >> Footnotes >> >> 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 >> percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published >> by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people >> make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, >> rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by >> Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never >> been seriously challenged. >> Commentary >> >> (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > _______________________________________________ SwiftwaterGazette mailing list SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette From sanderico1 at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 18:04:30 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:04:30 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Stimulus * NOT! In-Reply-To: <829004095361446FBDAC6FD049C48DCE@ebsoffice> References: <400985d70902100601v13720181ga0e7ada7fab0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> <4991A35F.5050107@gmail.com><69A70109E96E49F1BBBE6DD3AFF02798@ebsoffice> <4991FA18.4080902@gmail.com> <829004095361446FBDAC6FD049C48DCE@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <499207FE.1070108@gmail.com> Michael, Where'd she get that "we" shit??? Rik I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Rik, > > I almost fell over when my Mom (she's 79) told me last summer that she was > driving around south Florida in a "bus" picking up old folks to register > them to vote for Obama! I asked her what she would do if they didn't want > to vote for Mr. Obama and she said, "I only pick them up. I have no idea > how they return home!" > > She then followed it up with the statement that, after all "we" have done to > "them," he DESERVED to be president! ... and then the fight started! > > Mike > > From: "Rik Sandberg" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 5:05 PM > Michael, > > Brings back the old days. Ray Redahlin, Redahlin TV. He used to fix our > set for us back in the day. WWII vet with a wooden leg to show for it. > Good old guy. Long gone now.... > > I'm getting to the point where I'd just as soon slap people who try to > tell me they "deserve" anything. > > Rik > > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a > beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > > > Michael D. Weisner wrote: > >> Rik, >> >> You do not want to even see what they attempt to "design" with all their >> fancy book knowledge and computer programs to back them up. I am a child >> of >> the 50s and learned computers, engineering & medicine the old fashioned >> way. >> I started as an apprentice in a TV repair shop (remember when folks kept >> appliances instead of tossing them?) when I was 12 to learn how not to >> design electronic products. I continued to learn from "masters" even as a >> postdoc. This is how one attains "mastery" instead of mystery in one's >> chosen field. >> >> The kids today are handed a second rate education, some of the best tools >> ever built and are told to go get them! Most of them have no clue as to >> where to start. They all think that they are worth $100K the first day, >> even though none of them want to think again. Just hand 'em the bucks! >> After all, they got a degree and "deserve a great job!" >> >> It doesn't surprise me that this guy was sold a bill of goods by a sleazy >> mortgage bunker. He probably still has no idea why it didn't work out. >> >> Mike >> >> From: "Rik Sandberg" Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:55 AM >> Brad, >> >> MAN .... you tickled my rant bone. >> >> Yesterday we were down in St. Cloud visiting my bride's best friend. As >> we got started driving back home we were listening to MPR. Of course, as >> usual they had found themselves a "victim" of the mortgage crisis to >> talk about. >> >> Their subject (one of them) was a young man from Indiana a couple years >> out of school with an engineering degree and a job that paid him about >> 40K a year. Now, I have been led to believe that in order to get an >> engineering degree you had to be a bit more than competent at basic >> math. They told how this young fellow went out, bought and financed a >> .... get this $465,000 dollar house and now was afraid he was going to >> lose it because .... well DUH, he couldn't afford the payments. >> Interestingly enough he got his loan from Indymac, what a surprise, eh. >> >> So anyway, I'm driving along listening to this and thinking lets see, >> 465,000 even if he got a 5% loan jeez, that'd be a couple thousand bucks >> a month in interest and if your gonna' ever hope to pay it off you're >> gonna have to throw another 500 or so at the principal. So we're up to >> 2500, Taxes on a 465,000 house gotta be another 500 bucks a month, >> insurance, I can't imagine getting that for less than a couple hundred >> bucks a month. So, we're up to what ...3200 or so. Now 40 (income) >> divided by 12 is about 3 1/3 so monthly income before taxes is about >> 3,333, whack off 1/4 or so for the gov't and your down to about 2500 a >> month ..... UH, what's wrong with this picture??? >> >> Now, I'm driving in a god damned rain storm in the dark, I graduated >> from high school way back when, just barely, and in less than 5 minutes, >> I can figure out in my head that it is not possible for this young man >> to ever own this house. I'm sorry, but this guy (and his banker) is too >> stupid to save. But that leaves one really big question .... How in the >> world could he possibly have gotten a degree in engineering??? What the >> hell are we teaching these people??? >> >> rant off >> >> Rik >> >> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a >> beating. >> Joel, mount hope, USA >> >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >> >>> Let's be honest here, what we are witnessing here is a spending bill, >>> not a stimulus bill - a very LARGE spending bill. I'd appreciate it >>> if the POR people (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) didn't blow smoke up my ass >>> and enough already with the doom and gloom! If things are that bad, >>> we'll figure it out on our own without you poor mouthing the economy >>> every time someone sticks a microphone in your face. Here's your clue, >>> if you were uneducated and broke in 2007, there's a damn good chance >>> you'll be uneducated and broke in 2009. If you speculated in real >>> estate and lost your ass, well, I feel your pain. A long but simple >>> read on "stimulus" is attached. Standby for inflation (the cheapening >>> of your dollars) starting in 3...2...1... Oh, and Barry, you and I >>> agree on some things. Bush 43 got us into this mess. So, your >>> solution is to double-down on his spending with borrowed money? >>> Explain that to me again. Those of us who are marginally educated >>> from no-name state universities are slow to grasp certain concepts. >>> Or, are you just full of it? >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> --------------- >>> >>> >>> Commentary online >>> SPECIAL PREVIEW Stimulus: A History of Folly >>> James K. Glassman From issue: March 2009 >>> >>> Before he was sworn in as President, Barack Obama began to lay out his >>> plans for reviving an American economy that, it would later be >>> discovered, had declined 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, >>> its worst performance in 26 years. About the first part of his >>> project, "stimulating" businesses to invest and consumers to consume >>> through government spending and tax remittances, he was forthcoming >>> and enthusiastic. About the second, stabilizing the financial system, >>> he wished to reserve judgment. >>> >>> He anointed the stimulus proposal with a convenient and vivid >>> metaphor. "We're going to have to jump start this economy with my >>> economic recovery plan," he said on January 3. According to the image, >>> one can jolt a dormant economy into action just as one can hook up >>> polarized cables to a car battery, clamp a defibrillator to the chest, >>> or breathe into the ear of a reluctant lover. Suddenly, the object of >>> our attention will be back in action, aroused. >>> >>> Alas, the questions raised by a proposed stimulus?whether to apply it, >>> what sort it should be, how much it should cost, and when it should >>> begin and end?are far trickier to answer than problems involving dead >>> batteries. And, remarkably enough, history and economic research offer >>> no conclusive answers. The recession that began in 2008 could turn out >>> to be the worst slowdown since the Great Depression of the 1930's. For >>> three-quarters of a century, economists have been studying it >>> diligently. And even now they cannot come to a definitive conclusion >>> about the cause of that depression, the reasons for its severity and >>> duration, or what cured it. In an introduction to a book of essays on >>> the Great Depression he compiled in 2000, Ben S. Bernanke, then a >>> Princeton professor and now chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, >>> wrote, "Finding an explanation for the worldwide economic collapse of >>> the 1930's remains a fascinating intellectual challenge." >>> >>> Today, of course, the challenge is more than intellectual. >>> >>> _____________ >>> >>> >>> >>> When he wrote in 1936 that "practical men, who believe themselves to >>> be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the >>> slaves of some defunct economist," John Maynard Keynes surely did not >>> have himself in mind. But, in times of trouble, Americans still cling >>> to Keynes, or at least to the caricature of him as the economist who >>> said you could spend your way out of a recession. His big idea was >>> that, left to its own devices, an economy can fall into a slump and >>> just stay there. Self-corrective mechanisms will not necessarily work >>> on their own; they will need help. >>> >>> Prosperity depends on investment, on businesses building new plants, >>> buying new machines, and employing more workers. In a typical case, >>> when an economy slows, businesses reduce their demand for credit. At >>> the same time, worried consumers save their earnings in banks, and by >>> doing so, add to the store of money available for lending. These two >>> forces?as well as actions taken by the Federal Reserve Board?combine >>> to push interest rates to levels so attractive that businesses start >>> borrowing again, and the economy picks up. The Great Depression, >>> however, was atypical. The economy slowed and interest rates fell, but >>> businesses were so frightened about the future that they refused to >>> invest; instead, they did the opposite, shutting plants and firing >>> workers. As for consumers, while they may have wanted to save, they >>> lacked the cash to put away. Because they were out of work, they >>> depleted what savings they had. >>> >>> Keynes argued that, when businesses and people cannot or will not >>> invest, then the government must take on the role of filling the gap. >>> The key is speed. The means, Keynes wrote in The General Theory of >>> Employment, Interest and Money, really did not matter so much: >>> >>> If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with bank notes, bury >>> them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled to >>> the surface with town rubbish and leave it to private enterprise on >>> well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again, . . >>> . there need be no more unemployment and with the help of the >>> repercussions, the real income of the community would probably become >>> a good deal larger than it is. >>> >>> Of course, Keynes favored large public-works projects over the burying >>> of bottles. Building roads in the right places, for example, would >>> both put people to work and provide the basis for more commerce. At >>> first, Keynes emphasized government spending as stimulus, but, when >>> pressed in 1933, he advocated tax cuts as well?specifically in >>> response to criticism that public-works projects do not put cash into >>> the system quickly enough. >>> >>> The dire situation for which Keynes prescribed a cure bears >>> distressing similarities to our own. Interest rates set by the Fed >>> stand effectively at zero percent, but banks are recalcitrant about >>> lending and even businesses flush with cash are hesitant to invest. It >>> appears that the current sickness occurred because the Fed, in an >>> effort to keep the economy stimulated after the collapse of the >>> tech-stock bubble and in the wake of September 11, cut interest rates >>> far too much during 2001 (from 6.5 percent at the start of the year to >>> 1.75 percent at the end) and waited too long to raise them, making >>> credit so easy that businesses expanded beyond all reasonable bounds, >>> and banks, flush with cash and trying to make higher returns, shoveled >>> money at borrowers with poor credit; risk aversion disappeared, and >>> loans, especially to home buyers, went bad. Booms do, after all, >>> create their own busts. >>> >>> In response, Congress last year voted funds for the Treasury to use to >>> shore up financial institutions?the widely maligned Troubled Asset >>> Relief Program, or TARP?and the Fed opened wide its lending window. >>> Those actions forestalled mass failures, but banks, chastened by their >>> past overindulgence and worried about depleting their capital, still >>> do not want to lend. So while government action proved necessary (and >>> remains necessary) to maintain public confidence in the banking >>> system, it became clear those actions could not and would not mitigate >>> the parlous effects of the recession that, we were told late in 2008, >>> had begun at the end of 2007. So the question becomes: In a world in >>> which monetary adjustments do not appear effective, can tax and >>> spending policies pull us out of the slump? >>> >>> _____________ >>> >>> >>> >>> The track record is discouraging. Despite Franklin Roosevelt's >>> aggressive spending, unemployment reached 25 percent in 1933, fell >>> only to 14 percent by 1937, and was back up to 19 percent in 1939.1 In >>> the end, the New Deal did little or nothing to resuscitate the >>> economy. Certainly, inept monetary policies helped prolong the Great >>> Depression, as did tax increases, constant interventions in the >>> conduct of business, and the erection of global trade barriers, >>> beginning with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930, more than two years >>> before Roosevelt took office. There was a stretch of twelve years from >>> the stock-market crash to Pearl Harbor, and, during that time, fiscal >>> stimulus simply did not jump-start the economy (or, in Keynes's own >>> metaphor, "awaken Sleeping Beauty"). Now, some do attempt to make the >>> case that Roosevelt did not increase government spending enough during >>> the early and mid-1930's and that it took World War II and the >>> unprecedented infusion of government dollars into the economy to >>> provide the stimulus that finally pulled America from the swamp. >>> >>> But even if that were true?and considering the fact that federal >>> spending tripled during the Great Depression, rising from 3 percent of >>> the country's gross domestic product to nearly 10 percent in 1939,2 it >>> does not seem the likeliest explanation?it still does not offer much >>> in the way of guidance through our current thicket. Few economists >>> today believe the United States could tolerate the kind of budget >>> deficits that developed during World War II, which ran more than 50 >>> percent of gross domestic product, or about $7 trillion annually in >>> current terms. When the federal government ramped up its spending >>> during the war, it had not yet grown into the entitlement cash machine >>> it is now, spitting out trillions of dollars a year in retirement and >>> health-care benefits. >>> >>> Not only was the stimulative effect of Great Depression fiscal policy >>> non-existent, but follow-on efforts during the ten subsequent >>> recessions proved equally ineffective. As a result of that hard-won >>> experience, the consensus until recently among economists was that >>> attempts at stimulus through emergency fiscal policies?as opposed to >>> monetary policies and the automatic effects of increases in >>> unemployment assistance and decreases in tax payments?were useless at >>> best. Typical was the statement of Martin Eichenbaum of Northwestern >>> University in the American Economic Review in 1997: "There is now >>> widespread agreement that countercyclical discretionary fiscal policy >>> is neither desirable nor politically feasible." Martin Feldstein, then >>> president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, agreed. Fiscal >>> stimulus, he said in 2002, "has not contributed to economic stability >>> and may have actually been destabilizing." >>> >>> _____________ >>> >>> >>> >>> A good place to turn to understand the failure of the jump-start is >>> the work of Frederic Bastiat, a French politician of the early 19th >>> century. "In the economic sphere," he wrote, >>> >>> an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one >>> effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is >>> immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The >>> other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are >>> fortunate if we foresee them. >>> >>> To prove his point, Bastiat described what happens when a vandal >>> breaks a shopkeeper's window. The seen effect is that repairing the >>> glass creates economic value in the payment to the glazier, who then >>> has money to buy a new suit or hire a part-time employee. What is >>> unseen is that the shopkeeper has to pay the glazier with money that >>> he would otherwise have used to buy a suit or add an employee. "The >>> broken-window fallacy, under a hundred disguises, is the most >>> persistent in the history of economics," wrote the economic journalist >>> Henry Hazlitt in 1946. >>> >>> Like payments for broken windows, tax rebates and new roads (the seen) >>> do not come free. The stimulus money that flows to taxpayers, >>> government agencies, and businesses has to come from somewhere (the >>> unseen). During a recession, it is usually borrowed, and the >>> anticipation of taxpayers is that they will have to repay these loans, >>> which means their taxes will rise in the future. This knowledge makes >>> people anxious about spending the extra money, or even about investing >>> it in the kind of ventures that help an economy grow.3 >>> >>> Lately, however, economists have become more sanguine about the power >>> of fiscal stimulus, in large part because of the apparent success of >>> the tax-rate reductions and rebates in 2001 and 2003 (although such a >>> conclusion may ignore the monetary effects of the huge cut in interest >>> rates). A summary of a conference held in May by the Federal Reserve >>> Bank of San Francisco stated that "the consensus" against stimulus >>> "has unraveled and perhaps even begun to emerge on the opposite >>> viewpoint." Last year, Jason Furman and Douglas Elmendorf of the >>> Brookings Institution wrote, "Fiscal policy implemented promptly can >>> provide a larger near-term impetus to economic policy than monetary >>> policy can." And, in a paper delivered to the American Economic >>> Association in January, Feldstein himself switched sides and said he >>> now favored tax cuts and government spending. >>> >>> The views of these economists are undoubtedly heartfelt, but it must >>> be recognized that one of the great attractions of Keynes's theories >>> is that he gives you permission to do what you wanted to do anyway. >>> Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald >>> Reagan, proposes a stimulus policy that extends the Bush tax cuts >>> currently scheduled to expire in 2011 and increases spending on >>> defense and national intelligence. In their stimulus proposal, Furman, >>> now deputy director of Obama's National Economic Council, and >>> Elmendorf, head of the Congressional Budget Office under the current >>> Democratic majority, adamantly oppose extending the Bush cuts and >>> instead want to extend unemployment and Food Stamp benefits and issue >>> short-term tax credits, even to people who owe no taxes. >>> >>> Also, in the new enthusiasm for stimulus, there is not a small degree >>> of panic; monetary policy is not working, so fiscal policy must! To >>> his credit, however, Feldstein writes toward the end of his January >>> paper, "It is of course possible that the planned surge in government >>> spending will fail. Two or three years from now we could be facing a >>> level of unemployment that is higher than today and that shows no sign >>> of coming down." >>> >>> The truth is that we have learned almost nothing about the use of >>> fiscal stimulus since the Great Depression, and it is a fatal conceit >>> to assume that we can hurriedly construct a fiscal policy that will >>> produce the prescribed results today. Economists seem to admit this >>> fact by advocating what they prefer anyway, for political or >>> ideological reasons. I would feel better about stimulus if Elmendorf >>> were clamoring for permanent tax cuts and Feldstein food stamps. >>> >>> _____________ >>> >>> >>> >>> On being presented the Nobel Prize in economics in 1974, Friedrich von >>> Hayek devoted his Stockholm lecture to acknowledging the severe >>> limitations of his profession. "It seems to me," he said, "that this >>> failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely >>> connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the >>> procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences?an attempt >>> which in our field may lead to outright error." Government simply >>> cannot know enough to direct an economy successfully, and when the >>> President claims that his fiscal stimulus plan will create (or save) >>> at least three million jobs, he is taking a wild, and dangerous, leap. >>> Said Hayek: >>> >>> If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve >>> the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other >>> fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he >>> cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the >>> events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can >>> achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his >>> handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the >>> appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this >>> for his plants. >>> >>> What is that environment? First, it provides a confidence that, in a >>> crisis, bank deposits are safe and insurance policies will be paid in >>> full. Such confidence can be provided only by the government of the >>> United States in its legitimate and essential role as the lender of >>> last resort. Second, the environment supports, rather than denigrates >>> or browbeats, productive members of society. The U.S. will not emerge >>> from a serious recession unless businesses and investors lead it out. >>> Third, it recognizes that Americans have undergone a financial >>> calamity and that we need time to adjust; we cannot, like a car >>> battery, be shocked back to life, and we aren't in the mood to have >>> someone blow in our ear. >>> >>> In fact, stimulus may be precisely the wrong metaphor. Rather than >>> getting jazzed up, we need to be calmed down and to take the time to >>> learn from the Great Depression, a time when government did too much, >>> not too little. Amity Shlaes makes the argument in The Forgotten Man, >>> her book about the Great Depression, that the constant experimenting >>> and meddling of the New Deal froze investors and business operators in >>> fear: "Businesses decided to wait Roosevelt out, hold on to their >>> cash, and invest in future years." >>> >>> Despite the warnings of Keynes, the experience of the past >>> half-century indicates that today's low interest rates will start >>> having a positive effect, though it still will take many months. >>> Meanwhile, left alone, what Hayek called "spontaneous order" will find >>> its way forward. Using a different metaphor, James Grant, in his >>> history of credit, Money of the Mind, wrote, "The cycle of decay and >>> renewal is as much a part of capitalism as it is of the forest floor." >>> But, in the 1930's, "something in the normal regenerative process was >>> missing. There was no decisive recovery from the business-cycle >>> bottom. People had lost their speculative courage, and the more >>> government legislated and taxed, the more that credit sulked." >>> >>> Stimulus?that is, fiscal intervention with the express purpose of >>> speeding up the normal regenerative process that Grant describes?is >>> unnecessary and almost certainly harmful, a policy based on hubris and >>> anxiety, rather than on history and good sense. Under such >>> circumstances, the proper way to analyze discrete proposals today for >>> spending or taxing is on their own merits, not on their supposed >>> ability to stimulate something else. There may, in fact, be a good >>> reason for government to spend billions of dollars today on building >>> highways, and it has nothing to do with stimulus. It is that long-term >>> interest rates are at historic lows and that the right highways can >>> boost the economy in the long term. There also may be a good reason, >>> again far apart from stimulus, for revising the tax code and reforming >>> Social Security and Medicare. It is that Americans now understand that >>> the economic future is not so assured as they believed a couple of >>> years ago, and it is time for decisions to be made?in a manner >>> careful, sensible, and unstimulated. >>> About the Author >>> >>> James K. Glassman is the former Under Secretary of State for Public >>> Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He is president of the World Growth >>> Institute, which promotes global economic development. >>> Agree? Disagree? Write a letter to the editor >>> >>> Let us know what you think! Send an email to >>> editor at commentarymagazine.com >>> Footnotes >>> >>> 1 For some perspective, the unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.2 >>> percent. 2 The figures are from a paper by David Wheelock, published >>> by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. 3 The notion that people >>> make current consumption decisions based on their lifetime income, >>> rather than their current income, was laid out brilliantly in 1957 by >>> Milton Friedman in his "permanent income hypothesis," which has never >>> been seriously challenged. >>> Commentary >>> >>> (c) Copyright 2009 Commentary. All rights reserved >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net Wed Feb 11 08:18:57 2009 From: pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net (pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:18:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] We're Becoming French Message-ID: <32481.216.109.207.84.1234358337.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> Can you think of a bigger put-down than being accused of becoming French? See article below. Paul We Are All Socialists Now In many ways our economy already resembles a European one. As boomers age and spending grows, we will become even more French. By Jon Meacham and Evan Thomas | NEWSWEEK Published Feb 7, 2009 >From the magazine issue dated Feb 16, 2009 The interview was nearly over. on the Fox News Channel last Wednesday evening, Sean Hannity was coming to the end of a segment with Indiana Congressman Mike Pence, the chair of the House Republican Conference and a vociferous foe of President Obama's nearly $1 trillion stimulus bill. How, Pence had asked rhetorically, was $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts going to put people back to work in Indiana? How would $20 million for "fish passage barriers" (a provision to pay for the removal of barriers in rivers and streams so that fish could migrate freely) help create jobs? Hannity could not have agreed more. "It is the European Socialist Act of 2009," the host said, signing off. "We're counting on you to stop it. Thank you, congressman." There it was, just before the commercial: the S word, a favorite among conservatives since John McCain began using it during the presidential campaign. (Remember Joe the Plumber? Sadly, so do we.) But it seems strangely beside the point. The U.S. government has already?under a conservative Republican administration?effectively nationalized the banking and mortgage industries. That seems a stronger sign of socialism than $50 million for art. Whether we want to admit it or not?and many, especially Congressman Pence and Hannity, do not?the America of 2009 is moving toward a modern European state. We remain a center-right nation in many ways?particularly culturally, and our instinct, once the crisis passes, will be to try to revert to a more free-market style of capitalism?but it was, again, under a conservative GOP administration that we enacted the largest expansion of the welfare state in 30 years: prescription drugs for the elderly. People on the right and the left want government to invest in alternative energies in order to break our addiction to foreign oil. And it is unlikely that even the reddest of states will decline federal money for infrastructural improvements. If we fail to acknowledge the reality of the growing role of government in the economy, insisting instead on fighting 21st-century wars with 20th-century terms and tactics, then we are doomed to a fractious and unedifying debate. The sooner we understand where we truly stand, the sooner we can think more clearly about how to use government in today's world. As the Obama administration presses the largest fiscal bill in American history, caps the salaries of executives at institutions receiving federal aid at $500,000 and introduces a new plan to rescue the banking industry, the unemployment rate is at its highest in 16 years. The Dow has slumped to 1998 levels, and last year mortgage foreclosures rose 81 percent. All of this is unfolding in an economy that can no longer be understood, even in passing, as the Great Society vs. the Gipper. Whether we like it or not?or even whether many people have thought much about it or not?the numbers clearly suggest that we are headed in a more European direction. A decade ago U.S. government spending was 34.3 percent of GDP, compared with 48.2 percent in the euro zone?a roughly 14-point gap, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. In 2010 U.S. spending is expected to be 39.9 percent of GDP, compared with 47.1 percent in the euro zone?a gap of less than 8 points. As entitlement spending rises over the next decade, we will become even more French. This is not to say that berets will be all the rage this spring, or that Obama has promised a croissant in every toaster oven. But the simple fact of the matter is that the political conversation, which shifts from time to time, has shifted anew, and for the foreseeable future Americans will be more engaged with questions about how to manage a mixed economy than about whether we should have one. The architect of this new era of big government? History has a sense of humor, for the man who laid the foundations for the world Obama now rules is George W. Bush, who moved to bail out the financial sector last autumn with $700 billion. Bush brought the Age of Reagan to a close; now Obama has gone further, reversing Bill Clinton's end of big government. The story, as always, is complicated. Polls show that Americans don't trust government and still don't want big government. They do, however, want what government delivers, like health care and national defense and, now, protections from banking and housing failure. During the roughly three decades since Reagan made big government the enemy and "liberal" an epithet, government did not shrink. It grew. But the economy grew just as fast, so government as a percentage of GDP remained about the same. Much of that economic growth was real, but for the past five years or so, it has borne a suspicious resemblance to Bernie Madoff's stock fund. Americans have been living high on borrowed money (the savings rate dropped from 7.6 percent in 1992 to less than zero in 2005) while financiers built castles in the air. Now comes the reckoning. The answer may indeed be more government. In the short run, since neither consumers nor business is likely to do it, the government will have to stimulate the economy. And in the long run, an aging population and global warming and higher energy costs will demand more government taxing and spending. The catch is that more government intrusion in the economy will almost surely limit growth (as it has in Europe, where a big welfare state has caused chronic high unemployment). Growth has always been America's birthright and saving grace. The Obama administration is caught in a paradox. It must borrow and spend to fix a crisis created by too much borrowing and spending. Having pumped the economy up with a stimulus, the president will have to cut the growth of entitlement spending by holding down health care and retirement costs and still invest in ways that will produce long-term growth. Obama talks of the need for smart government. To get the balance between America and France right, the new president will need all the smarts he can summon. From pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net Wed Feb 11 08:26:18 2009 From: pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net (pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:26:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Keynesianomics Message-ID: <32555.216.109.207.84.1234358778.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> Keynesian approach might just dig a deeper hole By David Nicklaus ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH John Maynard Keynes has never been more popular; we may be about to learn whether he was right. Whatever you think of the $827 billion economic stimulus bill that's scheduled for a Senate vote today, you can't argue with one thing: It's the biggest Keynesian experiment ever tried. The great economist argued that massive government spending was the only way out of a severe economic crisis like the Great Depression of the 1930s. Much simplified, his idea was that when consumers and businesses aren't willing to spend, the government must. The folks in Washington have heard that message loud and clear. They're all too ready to abandon all fiscal discipline. The only debate has been just how much is enough, and how to divide the largesse between tax cuts and spending increases. Keynes himself might have grown impatient with the partisan nature of this debate. He once said that the government could stimulate the economy by paying people to dig holes and fill them back in. In other words, any spending would do, no matter how wasteful. The problem is, no one has had much opportunity to validate that part of Keynes' theory. Some economists think government spending eased the pain of the Great Depression; others think it prolonged the agony. In any event, we haven't had an opportunity to repeat the Keynesian experiment on a large scale. Until now. To listen to the Democrats in Congress, you'd think there should be no debate about the power of Keynesian deficit spending. Just do it, they say. Plenty of economists, though, are still willing to engage in that debate. About 200 of them, including three Nobel Prize winners, signed an advertisement declaring that the huge spending package is a mistake. The ad reads, in part: "More government spending did not solve Japan's 'lost decade' in the 1990s. As such, it is a triumph of hope over experience to believe that more government spending will help the U.S. today." Michele Boldrin, a professor of economics at Washington University, is among the signers of the ad. He actually approves of some things in the bill ? including tax cuts and infrastructure spending ? but says it's misleading to brand it as stimulus. Boldrin argues that some of the money, for things like remodeling the Agriculture Department headquarters and buying new cars for bureaucrats, should be handled through the normal budget process. He puts other appropriations, like $88 million for building new schools in Milwaukee, into the pork category. "In my opinion, the spending part of the bill, the digging holes part, is not going to do any good," Boldrin says. "It's an illusion." R.W. Hafer, a professor of economics at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, also signed the anti-stimulus ad. "I understand the desire to do something," he says, "but the cold facts of how this has worked in the past are not encouraging. Discretionary fiscal policy ... is not a very viable tool for stimulating the economy." The problem with the stimulus debate, in Boldrin's opinion, is that it distracts us from addressing real problems, like our distressed banking system. Figuring out how to wind down troubled institutions, rather than propping them up, would take political courage. Political courage is in short supply these days, so we get pork instead. It may be pork in a Keynesian wrapper, but that doesn't make it any less wasteful. Paul From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 08:55:43 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:55:43 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] We're Becoming French In-Reply-To: <32481.216.109.207.84.1234358337.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> References: <32481.216.109.207.84.1234358337.squirrel@nospam.wmis.net> Message-ID: <400985d70902110555n761e7c25n61f960f0484552ac@mail.gmail.com> Paul, Last October, just after signing the closing papers on the rental property I sold, the buyer (a university employee) and I were riding the elevator down and the conversation turned to the upcoming election. I asked a specific question, "why do you support Obama?" His answer was, "I want the United States to be more like France". The elevator doors couldn't open fast enough. During the continuation of the conversation in the parking lot, I asked him to explain what was so great about France. Did he know anything about their unemployment rate, the difficulty of starting a business there, the tax rate, the constant labor strikes, or the ongoing riots by "youths" (the French press can't call them Muslim thugs)? No, he didn't know Jack about the real France. He just liked the place. Like a lot of people who live in the insulated world of academia, he bought into the "paradise on earth" that is the great lie of socialism. Reagan said, "a government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away. Perhaps Thatcher's observation is better, "socialism sounds great until you run out of other people's money". For a good book on the decline of Europe, read "America Alone" by Mark Steyn. Newsweek is unfortunately correct. We are becoming more like France. How anyone perceives that as a good thing is beyond my understanding. Who'da thunk we would find ourselves studying Communist China for lessons on capitalism. Strange times these are! Brad On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:18 AM, wrote: > Can you think of a bigger put-down than being accused of becoming French? > See article below. > > Paul > > We Are All Socialists Now > In many ways our economy already resembles a European one. As boomers age > and spending grows, we will become even more French. > > By Jon Meacham and Evan Thomas | NEWSWEEK > Published Feb 7, 2009 > >From the magazine issue dated Feb 16, 2009 > > The interview was nearly over. on the Fox News Channel last Wednesday > evening, Sean Hannity was coming to the end of a segment with Indiana > Congressman Mike Pence, the chair of the House Republican Conference and a > vociferous foe of President Obama's nearly $1 trillion stimulus bill. How, > Pence had asked rhetorically, was $50 million for the National Endowment > for the Arts going to put people back to work in Indiana? How would $20 > million for "fish passage barriers" (a provision to pay for the removal of > barriers in rivers and streams so that fish could migrate freely) help > create jobs? Hannity could not have agreed more. "It is ? the European > Socialist Act of 2009," the host said, signing off. "We're counting on you > to stop it. Thank you, congressman." > There it was, just before the commercial: the S word, a favorite among > conservatives since John McCain began using it during the presidential > campaign. (Remember Joe the Plumber? Sadly, so do we.) But it seems > strangely beside the point. The U.S. government has already?under a > conservative Republican administration?effectively nationalized the > banking and mortgage industries. That seems a stronger sign of socialism > than $50 million for art. Whether we want to admit it or not?and many, > especially Congressman Pence and Hannity, do not?the America of 2009 is > moving toward a modern European state. > We remain a center-right nation in many ways?particularly culturally, and > our instinct, once the crisis passes, will be to try to revert to a more > free-market style of capitalism?but it was, again, under a conservative > GOP administration that we enacted the largest expansion of the welfare > state in 30 years: prescription drugs for the elderly. People on the right > and the left want government to invest in alternative energies in order to > break our addiction to foreign oil. And it is unlikely that even the > reddest of states will decline federal money for infrastructural > improvements. > > If we fail to acknowledge the reality of the growing role of government in > the economy, insisting instead on fighting 21st-century wars with > 20th-century terms and tactics, then we are doomed to a fractious and > unedifying debate. The sooner we understand where we truly stand, the > sooner we can think more clearly about how to use government in today's > world. > As the Obama administration presses the largest fiscal bill in American > history, caps the salaries of executives at institutions receiving federal > aid at $500,000 and introduces a new plan to rescue the banking industry, > the unemployment rate is at its highest in 16 years. The Dow has slumped > to 1998 levels, and last year mortgage foreclosures rose 81 percent. > All of this is unfolding in an economy that can no longer be understood, > even in passing, as the Great Society vs. the Gipper. Whether we like it > or not?or even whether many people have thought much about it or not?the > numbers clearly suggest that we are headed in a more European direction. A > decade ago U.S. government spending was 34.3 percent of GDP, compared with > 48.2 percent in the euro zone?a roughly 14-point gap, according to the > Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. In 2010 U.S. > spending is expected to be 39.9 percent of GDP, compared with 47.1 percent > in the euro zone?a gap of less than 8 points. As entitlement spending > rises over the next decade, we will become even more French. > > This is not to say that berets will be all the rage this spring, or that > Obama has promised a croissant in every toaster oven. But the simple fact > of the matter is that the political conversation, which shifts from time > to time, has shifted anew, and for the foreseeable future Americans will > be more engaged with questions about how to manage a mixed economy than > about whether we should have one. > The architect of this new era of big government? History has a sense of > humor, for the man who laid the foundations for the world Obama now rules > is George W. Bush, who moved to bail out the financial sector last autumn > with $700 billion. > Bush brought the Age of Reagan to a close; now Obama has gone further, > reversing Bill Clinton's end of big government. The story, as always, is > complicated. Polls show that Americans don't trust government and still > don't want big government. They do, however, want what government > delivers, like health care and national defense and, now, protections from > banking and housing failure. During the roughly three decades since Reagan > made big government the enemy and "liberal" an epithet, government did not > shrink. It grew. But the economy grew just as fast, so government as a > percentage of GDP remained about the same. Much of that economic growth > was real, but for the past five years or so, it has borne a suspicious > resemblance to Bernie Madoff's stock fund. Americans have been living high > on borrowed money (the savings rate dropped from 7.6 percent in 1992 to > less than zero in 2005) while financiers built castles in the air. > Now comes the reckoning. The answer may indeed be more government. In the > short run, since neither consumers nor business is likely to do it, the > government will have to stimulate the economy. And in the long run, an > aging population and global warming and higher energy costs will demand > more government taxing and spending. The catch is that more government > intrusion in the economy will almost surely limit growth (as it has in > Europe, where a big welfare state has caused chronic high unemployment). > Growth has always been America's birthright and saving grace. > The Obama administration is caught in a paradox. It must borrow and spend > to fix a crisis created by too much borrowing and spending. Having pumped > the economy up with a stimulus, the president will have to cut the growth > of entitlement spending by holding down health care and retirement costs > and still invest in ways that will produce long-term growth. Obama talks > of the need for smart government. To get the balance between America and > France right, the new president will need all the smarts he can summon. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 09:03:24 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:03:24 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking Message-ID: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> >From the Washington Post - Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of By Steven Pearlstein Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 Wall Street is not pleased. Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down another 5 percent. By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and their shareholders. For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks to be arbitraged. Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the government's bailout money. In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the river in Charlotte. Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all its loans. Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the loan. "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the public relations bump isn't bad either. What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well as his shareholders. In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at a rate of 2.5 percent or less. By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club membership and a company car (driver not included). And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government bailout money than any of you? From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 09:11:50 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:11:50 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The Lighter Side of Jihad Message-ID: <400985d70902110611t6b31bff7gfa10ca84945af89f@mail.gmail.com> This story is from the Arab Times. Man, those Taliban guys are no fun. What's wrong with a little 'toke' after a hard days work of be-headings? Brad --------------------- Drug addict in 'Jihadist's' garb detained by police for questioning KUWAIT CITY : The Public Prosecution Wednesday ordered the detention of a Kuwaiti man until Thursday when he will be summoned again for interrogation in a case which has been filed against him for going to Afghanistan to carry out hostile acts against the allied forces and consuming drugs. Case papers indicate the suspect, a former drug addict, decided to go to Afghanistan to consume drugs and grew his beard to give him the look of a Jihadist. After arriving in Afghanistan the man joined a training camp and one week later asked fellow trainees to guide him to the place where hashish is grown. When he arrived at the spot, he took to consuming drugs, says the case papers. When the Taleban saw him, they were shocked and they came to the conclusion that he had not come to Afghanistan to fight a holy war. So, they asked him to leave. When he returned to Kuwait, he was in a disoriented condition and he was referred to the concerned authorities. During interrogation by the Public Prosecution he admitted to going to Afghanistan for 'Jihad' and consuming drugs. Meanwhile, in another case, the Court of Appeals Wednesday set March 12, 2009 to allow the defense team for former MP Jamal Al-Omar and other accused to prepare their argument in the appeal they have filed to cancel the Court of First Instance verdict which has sentenced them to three years in jail and ordered them to pay KD 1,000 to suspend the sentence. They were accused of paying bribe to voters during the 2008 parliamentary elections. The accused have denied the charges. The Public Prosecution had charged Omar, his secretary, an announcer of the Channel Three and three women with paying KD 500 to each voter to cast a vote in favor of the contestant. By Moamen Al-Masri Special to the Arab Times From bill at effros.com Wed Feb 11 09:20:40 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:20:40 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] What Do You Think? Message-ID: <4992DEB8.9010405@effros.com> The Open-Door Bailout February 11, 2009 Op-Ed Columnist By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/thomaslfriedman/index.html?inline=nyt-per) Bangalore, India Leave it to a brainy Indian to come up with the cheapest and surest way to stimulate our economy: immigration. ?All you need to do is grant visas to two million Indians, Chinese and Koreans,? said Shekhar Gupta, editor of The Indian Express newspaper. ?We will buy up all the subprime homes. We will work 18 hours a day to pay for them. We will immediately improve your savings rate ? no Indian bank today has more than 2 percent nonperforming loans because not paying your mortgage is considered shameful here. And we will start new companies to create our own jobs and jobs for more Americans.? While his tongue was slightly in cheek, Gupta and many other Indian business people I spoke to this week were trying to make a point that sometimes non-Americans can make best: ?Dear America, please remember how you got to be the wealthiest country in history. It wasn?t through protectionism, or state-owned banks or fearing free trade. No, the formula was very simple: build this really flexible, really open economy, tolerate creative destruction so dead capital is quickly redeployed to better ideas and companies, pour into it the most diverse, smart and energetic immigrants from every corner of the world and then stir and repeat, stir and repeat, stir and repeat, stir and repeat.? While I think President Obama has been doing his best to keep the worst protectionist impulses in Congress out of his stimulus plan, the U.S. Senate unfortunately voted on Feb. 6 to restrict banks and other financial institutions that receive taxpayer bailout money from hiring high-skilled immigrants on temporary work permits known as H-1B visas. Bad signal. In an age when attracting the first-round intellectual draft choices from around the world is the most important competitive advantage a knowledge economy can have, why would we add barriers against such brainpower ? anywhere? That?s called ?Old Europe.? That?s spelled: S-T-U-P-I-D. ?If you do this, it will be one of the best things for India and one of the worst for Americans, [because] Indians will be forced to innovate at home,? said Subhash B. Dhar, a member of the executive council that runs Infosys, the well-known Indian technology company that sends Indian workers to the U.S. to support a wide range of firms. ?We protected our jobs for many years and look where it got us. Do you know that for an Indian company, it is still easier to do business with a company in the U.S. than it is to do business today with another Indian state?? Each Indian state tries to protect its little economy with its own rules. America should not be trying to copy that. ?Your attitude,? said Dhar, should be ? ?whoever can make us competitive and dominant, let?s bring them in.? ? If there is one thing we know for absolute certain, it?s this: Protectionism did not cause the Great Depression, but it sure helped to make it ?Great.? From 1929 to 1934, world trade plunged by more than 60 percent ? and we were all worse off. We live in a technological age where every study shows that the more knowledge you have as a worker and the more knowledge workers you have as an economy, the faster your incomes will rise. Therefore, the centerpiece of our stimulus, the core driving principle, should be to stimulate everything that makes us smarter and attracts more smart people to our shores. That is the best way to create good jobs. According to research by Vivek Wadhwa, a senior research associate at the Labor and Worklife Program at Harvard Law School, more than half of Silicon Valley start-ups were founded by immigrants over the last decade. These immigrant-founded tech companies employed 450,000 workers and had sales of $52 billion in 2005, said Wadhwa in an essay (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2009/tc2009029_333899.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology) published this week on BusinessWeek.com (http://BusinessWeek.com). He also cited a recent study by William R. Kerr of Harvard Business School and William F. Lincoln of the University of Michigan that ?found that in periods when H-1B visa numbers went down, so did patent applications filed by immigrants [in the U.S.]. And when H-1B visa numbers went up, patent applications followed suit.? We don?t want to come out of this crisis with just inflation, a mountain of debt and more shovel-ready jobs. We want to ? we have to ? come out of it with a new Intel, Google, Microsoft and Apple. I would have loved to have seen the stimulus package include a government-funded venture capital bank to help finance all the start-ups that are clearly not starting up today ? in the clean-energy space they?re dying like flies ? because of a lack of liquidity from traditional lending sources. Newsweek had an essay this week that began: ?Could Silicon Valley become another Detroit?? Well, yes, it could. When the best brains in the world are on sale, you don?t shut them out. You open your doors wider. We need to attack this financial crisis with green cards not just greenbacks, and with start-ups not just bailouts. One Detroit is enough. From bill at effros.com Wed Feb 11 09:29:09 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:29:09 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking In-Reply-To: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com> Lots of problems with this. The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right price. I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old home... B. Brad Haslett wrote: > >From the Washington Post - > > Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of > > By Steven Pearlstein > Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 > > Wall Street is not pleased. > > Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a > little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting > new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. > > Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the > tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they > demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down > another 5 percent. > > By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the > self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the > government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy > loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major > bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and > restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated > profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and > their shareholders. > > For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game > to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks > to be arbitraged. > > Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy > House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got > us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. > The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave > the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. > But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or > gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the > government's bailout money. > > In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if > they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited > Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. > > Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community > bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees > that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national > banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the > river in Charlotte. > > Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the > Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for > expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 > million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got > into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a > lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is > that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all > its loans. > > Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for > a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued > turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So > it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury > Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend > payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper > article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. > > The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the > current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used > successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two > stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got > Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout > money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to > consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and > developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? > > Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and > developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project > to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the > forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing > campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its > builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial > teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed > 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the > loan. > > "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price > explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to > help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a > cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it > will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking > a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the > public relations bump isn't bad either. > > What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking > of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know > that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a > damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well > capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he > feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it > in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well > as his shareholders. > > In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money > to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money > that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far > in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital > does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out > and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at > a rate of 2.5 percent or less. > > By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama > administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks > taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, > including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth > of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club > membership and a company car (driver not included). > > And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to > attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits > during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times > the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? > > So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put > to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker > with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny > executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, > somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government > bailout money than any of you? > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Feb 11 12:32:07 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:32:07 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> <4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com> Message-ID: <04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> Bill, Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down on a $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage (no principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the street so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to the house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus loan?). I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it is still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only worth $150K. Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original home at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce inventory before values drop further. What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat outright, please. I know, I sleep better. Mike From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM > Lots of problems with this. > > The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks > currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. > > Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage > payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right price. > > I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a > $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the > home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. > > He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and > gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting > financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. > > He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old > home... > > B. > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> >From the Washington Post - >> >> Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of >> >> By Steven Pearlstein >> Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 >> >> Wall Street is not pleased. >> >> Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a >> little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting >> new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. >> >> Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the >> tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they >> demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down >> another 5 percent. >> >> By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the >> self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the >> government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy >> loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major >> bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and >> restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated >> profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and >> their shareholders. >> >> For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game >> to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks >> to be arbitraged. >> >> Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy >> House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got >> us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. >> The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave >> the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. >> But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or >> gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the >> government's bailout money. >> >> In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if >> they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited >> Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. >> >> Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community >> bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees >> that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national >> banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the >> river in Charlotte. >> >> Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the >> Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for >> expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 >> million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got >> into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a >> lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is >> that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all >> its loans. >> >> Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for >> a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued >> turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So >> it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury >> Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend >> payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper >> article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. >> >> The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the >> current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used >> successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two >> stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got >> Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout >> money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to >> consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and >> developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? >> >> Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and >> developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project >> to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the >> forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing >> campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its >> builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial >> teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed >> 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the >> loan. >> >> "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price >> explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to >> help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a >> cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it >> will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking >> a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the >> public relations bump isn't bad either. >> >> What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking >> of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know >> that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a >> damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well >> capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he >> feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it >> in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well >> as his shareholders. >> >> In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money >> to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money >> that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far >> in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital >> does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out >> and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at >> a rate of 2.5 percent or less. >> >> By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama >> administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks >> taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, >> including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth >> of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club >> membership and a company car (driver not included). >> >> And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to >> attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits >> during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times >> the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? >> >> So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put >> to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker >> with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny >> executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, >> somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government >> bailout money than any of you? >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 12:45:11 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:45:11 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] What Do You Think? In-Reply-To: <4992DEB8.9010405@effros.com> References: <4992DEB8.9010405@effros.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902110945y26e59b62l3f5104496d20659a@mail.gmail.com> Bill, This is a great idea, but the US isn't as attractive to Indians and Asians as it once was. Jia attended a conference in Singapore a few weeks ago with attendees from all over the Pacific Rim, and several were talking about investing in California real estate. They have cash (and they made it in India and China). To address this post and your response to mine on banking, here's what has to take place. Let the markets work. People who can't make their house payments need to lose their homes. Banks that are broke need to go bankrupt. This market (equities) has treated me very badly (emphasis on the VERY). My airplane has gone down in value by 40%. Do I get a bailout? Has the sky fallen? NO! I made adult choices and got spanked. But here's the good news. The airplane I really want (Twin Comanche) costs about twice what mine is worth before the crash in prices. The current price for one in the vintage I want has fallen about $40K while mine has dropped $20K. So if I pull the trigger on an upgrade, I'll "save" $20K over prices from last summer. Ditto for real estate. We act like people losing their homes is the end of the world. Is anyone going homeless, ie, is there a shortage of housing stock? No, some people who stretched got burned, and some buyers that needed to stay renters are back to renting. Here's a lesson everyone needs to take to heart - investing involves risk. If you're extremely risk averse, put your savings in to an FDIC passbook savings account (never more than 100K in any one bank or whatever the new limit is) and don't look back. If you invest in something with a higher return, you're taking on more risk. Simple. Now we have a Congress and a President who wants to make everyone "whole again" for betting in the wrong places and in the wrong direction. Ain't gonna happen. For an instructive lesson on a micro scale, revisit the "Farm Crisis" of the late 70's and early 80's. Did grain prices fall off a cliff? No. Farm land prices tripled (garden variety speculative bubble) and banks made stupid loans and farmers borrowed recklessly. The "crisis" was this: sometimes reality sucks. A lot of kids I grew up with lost their ass. I see where Arnold is talking about laying off ten thousand California municipal employees. Will things suddenly shut down in California as a result? I doubt it. It reminds me of the time I got ramp-checked by the FAA in Providence, RI late December 1995. President Clinton and the Republican Congress was in a pissing contest and the Federal government shut down for a few weeks but for "essential" services. The FAA dude explained that they were keeping a closer eye on us because we were going through "self-help", a contentious period of contract negotiations, and then asked, "how's your contract talks going?" "Fine", I said, "how's yours". He was not amused. Why does everyone think the Congress has to do anything? Time will cure our current economic ills. All this stimulus crap and tinkering with markets is just picking at scabs. The business cycle has been with us forever. It is painful to watch people suffer, and especially when it involves people we know. But, do good times last forever? BTW, if they do create a program for stock market investors who lost their shirt or airplane owners with bad timing, be sure and let me know so I can be first in line for the tit. I can suckle with the best! Brad On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Bill Effros wrote: > The Open-Door Bailout > > > February 11, 2009 > Op-Ed Columnist > By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN > (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/thomaslfriedman/index.html?inline=nyt-per) > > Bangalore, India > > Leave it to a brainy Indian to come up with the cheapest and surest way > to stimulate our economy: immigration. > > "All you need to do is grant visas to two million Indians, Chinese and > Koreans," said Shekhar Gupta, editor of The Indian Express newspaper. > "We will buy up all the subprime homes. We will work 18 hours a day to > pay for them. We will immediately improve your savings rate ? no Indian > bank today has more than 2 percent nonperforming loans because not > paying your mortgage is considered shameful here. And we will start new > companies to create our own jobs and jobs for more Americans." > > While his tongue was slightly in cheek, Gupta and many other Indian > business people I spoke to this week were trying to make a point that > sometimes non-Americans can make best: "Dear America, please remember > how you got to be the wealthiest country in history. It wasn't through > protectionism, or state-owned banks or fearing free trade. No, the > formula was very simple: build this really flexible, really open > economy, tolerate creative destruction so dead capital is quickly > redeployed to better ideas and companies, pour into it the most diverse, > smart and energetic immigrants from every corner of the world and then > stir and repeat, stir and repeat, stir and repeat, stir and repeat." > > While I think President Obama has been doing his best to keep the worst > protectionist impulses in Congress out of his stimulus plan, the U.S. > Senate unfortunately voted on Feb. 6 to restrict banks and other > financial institutions that receive taxpayer bailout money from hiring > high-skilled immigrants on temporary work permits known as H-1B visas. > > Bad signal. In an age when attracting the first-round intellectual draft > choices from around the world is the most important competitive > advantage a knowledge economy can have, why would we add barriers > against such brainpower ? anywhere? That's called "Old Europe." That's > spelled: S-T-U-P-I-D. > > "If you do this, it will be one of the best things for India and one of > the worst for Americans, [because] Indians will be forced to innovate at > home," said Subhash B. Dhar, a member of the executive council that runs > Infosys, the well-known Indian technology company that sends Indian > workers to the U.S. to support a wide range of firms. "We protected our > jobs for many years and look where it got us. Do you know that for an > Indian company, it is still easier to do business with a company in the > U.S. than it is to do business today with another Indian state?" > > Each Indian state tries to protect its little economy with its own > rules. America should not be trying to copy that. "Your attitude," said > Dhar, should be " 'whoever can make us competitive and dominant, let's > bring them in.' " > > If there is one thing we know for absolute certain, it's this: > Protectionism did not cause the Great Depression, but it sure helped to > make it "Great." From 1929 to 1934, world trade plunged by more than 60 > percent ? and we were all worse off. > > We live in a technological age where every study shows that the more > knowledge you have as a worker and the more knowledge workers you have > as an economy, the faster your incomes will rise. Therefore, the > centerpiece of our stimulus, the core driving principle, should be to > stimulate everything that makes us smarter and attracts more smart > people to our shores. That is the best way to create good jobs. > > According to research by Vivek Wadhwa, a senior research associate at > the Labor and Worklife Program at Harvard Law School, more than half of > Silicon Valley start-ups were founded by immigrants over the last > decade. These immigrant-founded tech companies employed 450,000 workers > and had sales of $52 billion in 2005, said Wadhwa in an essay > (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2009/tc2009029_333899.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology) > published this week on BusinessWeek.com (http://BusinessWeek.com). > > He also cited a recent study by William R. Kerr of Harvard Business > School and William F. Lincoln of the University of Michigan that "found > that in periods when H-1B visa numbers went down, so did patent > applications filed by immigrants [in the U.S.]. And when H-1B visa > numbers went up, patent applications followed suit." > > We don't want to come out of this crisis with just inflation, a mountain > of debt and more shovel-ready jobs. We want to ? we have to ? come out > of it with a new Intel, Google, Microsoft and Apple. I would have loved > to have seen the stimulus package include a government-funded venture > capital bank to help finance all the start-ups that are clearly not > starting up today ? in the clean-energy space they're dying like flies ? > because of a lack of liquidity from traditional lending sources. > > Newsweek had an essay this week that began: "Could Silicon Valley become > another Detroit?" Well, yes, it could. When the best brains in the world > are on sale, you don't shut them out. You open your doors wider. We need > to attack this financial crisis with green cards not just greenbacks, > and with start-ups not just bailouts. One Detroit is enough. > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From dwbrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 14:05:08 2009 From: dwbrad at gmail.com (David Bradley) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:05:08 -0800 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking In-Reply-To: <04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> <4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com> <04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> So, MIke or Bill, who in this equation should go to jail, or put in stocks in the village square? Where do you guys draw the line between the "evils of big business" and "stupidity" and "greed"? Dave On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Bill, > > Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down on a > $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage (no > principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the street > so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to the > house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus loan?). > > I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original > $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it is > still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only worth > $150K. > > Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the > bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the > poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the > reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original home > at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce > inventory before values drop further. > > What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat > outright, please. I know, I sleep better. > > Mike > > > From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM >> Lots of problems with this. >> >> The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks >> currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. >> >> Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage >> payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right price. >> >> I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a >> $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the >> home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. >> >> He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and >> gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting >> financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. >> >> He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old >> home... >> >> B. >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >From the Washington Post - >>> >>> Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of >>> >>> By Steven Pearlstein >>> Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 >>> >>> Wall Street is not pleased. >>> >>> Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a >>> little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting >>> new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. >>> >>> Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the >>> tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they >>> demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down >>> another 5 percent. >>> >>> By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the >>> self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the >>> government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy >>> loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major >>> bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and >>> restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated >>> profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and >>> their shareholders. >>> >>> For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game >>> to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks >>> to be arbitraged. >>> >>> Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy >>> House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got >>> us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. >>> The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave >>> the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. >>> But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or >>> gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the >>> government's bailout money. >>> >>> In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if >>> they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited >>> Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. >>> >>> Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community >>> bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees >>> that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national >>> banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the >>> river in Charlotte. >>> >>> Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the >>> Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for >>> expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 >>> million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got >>> into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a >>> lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is >>> that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all >>> its loans. >>> >>> Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for >>> a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued >>> turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So >>> it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury >>> Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend >>> payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper >>> article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. >>> >>> The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the >>> current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used >>> successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two >>> stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got >>> Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout >>> money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to >>> consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and >>> developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? >>> >>> Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and >>> developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project >>> to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the >>> forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing >>> campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its >>> builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial >>> teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed >>> 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the >>> loan. >>> >>> "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price >>> explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to >>> help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a >>> cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it >>> will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking >>> a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the >>> public relations bump isn't bad either. >>> >>> What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking >>> of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know >>> that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a >>> damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well >>> capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he >>> feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it >>> in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well >>> as his shareholders. >>> >>> In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money >>> to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money >>> that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far >>> in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital >>> does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out >>> and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at >>> a rate of 2.5 percent or less. >>> >>> By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama >>> administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks >>> taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, >>> including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth >>> of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club >>> membership and a company car (driver not included). >>> >>> And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to >>> attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits >>> during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times >>> the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? >>> >>> So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put >>> to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker >>> with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny >>> executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, >>> somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government >>> bailout money than any of you? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > -- David Bradley +1.206.234.3977 dwbrad at gmail.com From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Feb 11 15:05:50 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:05:50 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com><4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com><04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <763F639F79224D94ADF797601A4221A8@ebsoffice> The teacher in me replies, "Ah, the student has finally asked the question that I am prepared to answer as the lesson to be learned." While the individuals have acted irresponsibly and perhaps unethically, the blame is on the government. It is not the function of government to create wealth but rather to maintain an environment within which the private sector can. The banking and finance industries belong to a very small set of ones in which I believe that regulation is required. This is not to change supply and demand but more to impose a set of rules to prevent fraud. I do not believe that there is an issue of business evils or even greed but rather condoning the fraudulent behaviors. You need to ask, "Why was a person like Madoff was permitted to operate outside the law for so long?" Unfortunately, he was only a $50B tip of a huge iceberg. Mike From: "David Bradley" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:05 PM > So, MIke or Bill, who in this equation should go to jail, or put in > stocks in the village square? Where do you guys draw the line between > the "evils of big business" and "stupidity" and "greed"? > > Dave > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Michael D. Weisner > wrote: >> Bill, >> >> Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down >> on a >> $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage >> (no >> principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the >> street >> so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to >> the >> house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus >> loan?). >> >> I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original >> $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it >> is >> still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only >> worth >> $150K. >> >> Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the >> bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the >> poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the >> reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original >> home >> at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce >> inventory before values drop further. >> >> What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat >> outright, please. I know, I sleep better. >> >> Mike >> >> >> From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM >>> Lots of problems with this. >>> >>> The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks >>> currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. >>> >>> Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage >>> payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right >>> price. >>> >>> I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a >>> $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the >>> home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. >>> >>> He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and >>> gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting >>> financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. >>> >>> He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old >>> home... >>> >>> B. >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>> >From the Washington Post - >>>> >>>> Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of >>>> >>>> By Steven Pearlstein >>>> Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 >>>> >>>> Wall Street is not pleased. >>>> >>>> Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a >>>> little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting >>>> new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. >>>> >>>> Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the >>>> tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they >>>> demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down >>>> another 5 percent. >>>> >>>> By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the >>>> self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the >>>> government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy >>>> loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major >>>> bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and >>>> restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated >>>> profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and >>>> their shareholders. >>>> >>>> For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game >>>> to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks >>>> to be arbitraged. >>>> >>>> Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy >>>> House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got >>>> us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. >>>> The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave >>>> the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. >>>> But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or >>>> gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the >>>> government's bailout money. >>>> >>>> In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if >>>> they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited >>>> Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. >>>> >>>> Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community >>>> bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees >>>> that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national >>>> banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the >>>> river in Charlotte. >>>> >>>> Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the >>>> Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for >>>> expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 >>>> million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got >>>> into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a >>>> lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is >>>> that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all >>>> its loans. >>>> >>>> Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for >>>> a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued >>>> turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So >>>> it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury >>>> Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend >>>> payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper >>>> article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. >>>> >>>> The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the >>>> current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used >>>> successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two >>>> stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got >>>> Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout >>>> money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to >>>> consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and >>>> developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? >>>> >>>> Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and >>>> developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project >>>> to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the >>>> forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing >>>> campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its >>>> builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial >>>> teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed >>>> 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the >>>> loan. >>>> >>>> "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price >>>> explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to >>>> help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a >>>> cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it >>>> will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking >>>> a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the >>>> public relations bump isn't bad either. >>>> >>>> What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking >>>> of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know >>>> that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a >>>> damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well >>>> capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he >>>> feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it >>>> in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well >>>> as his shareholders. >>>> >>>> In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money >>>> to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money >>>> that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far >>>> in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital >>>> does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out >>>> and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at >>>> a rate of 2.5 percent or less. >>>> >>>> By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama >>>> administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks >>>> taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, >>>> including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth >>>> of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club >>>> membership and a company car (driver not included). >>>> >>>> And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to >>>> attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits >>>> during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times >>>> the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? >>>> >>>> So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put >>>> to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker >>>> with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny >>>> executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, >>>> somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government >>>> bailout money than any of you? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > > > > -- > David Bradley > +1.206.234.3977 > dwbrad at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Feb 11 15:08:26 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:08:26 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Joke: Madoff Bris Today! Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090211/69011ea3/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 37386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090211/69011ea3/attachment-0001.jpe From bill at effros.com Wed Feb 11 16:53:56 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:53:56 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking In-Reply-To: <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> <4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com> <04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <499348F4.30807@effros.com> Dave, Nobody goes to jail. There is no line to draw. Everybody entered into a bad business deal that hasn't worked out. We all benefited from it for a while. We all understood we were playing "hot potato" -- and we all thought we were smart enough to get out of the game before we wound up with the potato. But most of us weren't. Now the time has come to pay the piper. And we will all have to pay. Nobody is smart enough to know how to make all the interests come out equitably. Nobody is completely clean. Bank appraisers told these schnooks their silly homes in silly places were worth the asking price. The buyers lose all their equity. The banks lose some of theirs. Fair enough. If society at large believes it cannot let the banks completely fail, and it is willing to make up the difference, so be it. It's all part of capitalism. Let the chips fall where they may, and let's get on with it. The more time we spend rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, the more people we're going to lose--to the benefit of no one. B. David Bradley wrote: > So, MIke or Bill, who in this equation should go to jail, or put in > stocks in the village square? Where do you guys draw the line between > the "evils of big business" and "stupidity" and "greed"? > > Dave > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down on a >> $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage (no >> principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the street >> so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to the >> house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus loan?). >> >> I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original >> $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it is >> still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only worth >> $150K. >> >> Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the >> bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the >> poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the >> reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original home >> at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce >> inventory before values drop further. >> >> What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat >> outright, please. I know, I sleep better. >> >> Mike >> >> >> From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM >> >>> Lots of problems with this. >>> >>> The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks >>> currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. >>> >>> Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage >>> payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right price. >>> >>> I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a >>> $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the >>> home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. >>> >>> He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and >>> gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting >>> financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. >>> >>> He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old >>> home... >>> >>> B. >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >>>> >From the Washington Post - >>>> >>>> Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of >>>> >>>> By Steven Pearlstein >>>> Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 >>>> >>>> Wall Street is not pleased. >>>> >>>> Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a >>>> little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting >>>> new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. >>>> >>>> Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the >>>> tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they >>>> demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down >>>> another 5 percent. >>>> >>>> By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the >>>> self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the >>>> government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy >>>> loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major >>>> bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and >>>> restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated >>>> profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and >>>> their shareholders. >>>> >>>> For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game >>>> to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks >>>> to be arbitraged. >>>> >>>> Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy >>>> House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got >>>> us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. >>>> The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave >>>> the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. >>>> But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or >>>> gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the >>>> government's bailout money. >>>> >>>> In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if >>>> they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited >>>> Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. >>>> >>>> Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community >>>> bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees >>>> that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national >>>> banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the >>>> river in Charlotte. >>>> >>>> Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the >>>> Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for >>>> expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 >>>> million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got >>>> into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a >>>> lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is >>>> that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all >>>> its loans. >>>> >>>> Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for >>>> a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued >>>> turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So >>>> it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury >>>> Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend >>>> payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper >>>> article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. >>>> >>>> The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the >>>> current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used >>>> successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two >>>> stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got >>>> Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout >>>> money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to >>>> consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and >>>> developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? >>>> >>>> Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and >>>> developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project >>>> to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the >>>> forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing >>>> campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its >>>> builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial >>>> teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed >>>> 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the >>>> loan. >>>> >>>> "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price >>>> explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to >>>> help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a >>>> cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it >>>> will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking >>>> a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the >>>> public relations bump isn't bad either. >>>> >>>> What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking >>>> of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know >>>> that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a >>>> damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well >>>> capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he >>>> feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it >>>> in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well >>>> as his shareholders. >>>> >>>> In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money >>>> to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money >>>> that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far >>>> in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital >>>> does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out >>>> and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at >>>> a rate of 2.5 percent or less. >>>> >>>> By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama >>>> administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks >>>> taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, >>>> including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth >>>> of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club >>>> membership and a company car (driver not included). >>>> >>>> And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to >>>> attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits >>>> during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times >>>> the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? >>>> >>>> So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put >>>> to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker >>>> with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny >>>> executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, >>>> somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government >>>> bailout money than any of you? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090211/dac58f13/attachment.html From bill at effros.com Wed Feb 11 17:06:41 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:06:41 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking In-Reply-To: <763F639F79224D94ADF797601A4221A8@ebsoffice> References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com><4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com><04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> <763F639F79224D94ADF797601A4221A8@ebsoffice> Message-ID: <49934BF1.3070603@effros.com> Mike, I have zero sympathy for people who lose money in Ponzi schemes. There is a very simple rule -- "Don't invest in anything you can't understand." That's dot-coms; Enron; flipping houses; Madoff; derivatives; and everything else that simply makes no sense. Madoff got away with it for so long because the people investing with him were greedy and happily looked the other way. Most of the long-term investors probably took out more over the years than they put in. What did they care that it made no sense? They were pulling in their friends so Madoff would be able to pay them. They all thought they were so much smarter than the next person. In fact, they were smug in that belief. So they turned out to be wrong. Meanwhile, the government reaped huge taxes from imaginary profits on non-existent trades. No one had any incentive to state the obvious -- "The Emperor has no clothes on!" Fine. Nobody starves. People who have never worked are going to have to find some way to earn an honest living. B. Michael D. Weisner wrote: > The teacher in me replies, "Ah, the student has finally asked the question > that I am prepared to answer as the lesson to be learned." > > While the individuals have acted irresponsibly and perhaps unethically, the > blame is on the government. It is not the function of government to create > wealth but rather to maintain an environment within which the private sector > can. The banking and finance industries belong to a very small set of ones > in which I believe that regulation is required. This is not to change > supply and demand but more to impose a set of rules to prevent fraud. > > I do not believe that there is an issue of business evils or even greed but > rather condoning the fraudulent behaviors. You need to ask, "Why was a > person like Madoff was permitted to operate outside the law for so long?" > Unfortunately, he was only a $50B tip of a huge iceberg. > > Mike > > From: "David Bradley" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:05 PM > >> So, MIke or Bill, who in this equation should go to jail, or put in >> stocks in the village square? Where do you guys draw the line between >> the "evils of big business" and "stupidity" and "greed"? >> >> Dave >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Michael D. Weisner >> wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down >>> on a >>> $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage >>> (no >>> principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the >>> street >>> so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to >>> the >>> house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus >>> loan?). >>> >>> I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original >>> $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it >>> is >>> still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only >>> worth >>> $150K. >>> >>> Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the >>> bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the >>> poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the >>> reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original >>> home >>> at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce >>> inventory before values drop further. >>> >>> What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat >>> outright, please. I know, I sleep better. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM >>> >>>> Lots of problems with this. >>>> >>>> The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks >>>> currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. >>>> >>>> Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage >>>> payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right >>>> price. >>>> >>>> I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a >>>> $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the >>>> home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. >>>> >>>> He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and >>>> gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting >>>> financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. >>>> >>>> He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old >>>> home... >>>> >>>> B. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>>> >>>>> >From the Washington Post - >>>>> >>>>> Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of >>>>> >>>>> By Steven Pearlstein >>>>> Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 >>>>> >>>>> Wall Street is not pleased. >>>>> >>>>> Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a >>>>> little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting >>>>> new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. >>>>> >>>>> Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the >>>>> tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they >>>>> demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down >>>>> another 5 percent. >>>>> >>>>> By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the >>>>> self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the >>>>> government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy >>>>> loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major >>>>> bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and >>>>> restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated >>>>> profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and >>>>> their shareholders. >>>>> >>>>> For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game >>>>> to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks >>>>> to be arbitraged. >>>>> >>>>> Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy >>>>> House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got >>>>> us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. >>>>> The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave >>>>> the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. >>>>> But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or >>>>> gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the >>>>> government's bailout money. >>>>> >>>>> In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if >>>>> they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited >>>>> Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. >>>>> >>>>> Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community >>>>> bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees >>>>> that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national >>>>> banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the >>>>> river in Charlotte. >>>>> >>>>> Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the >>>>> Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for >>>>> expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 >>>>> million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got >>>>> into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a >>>>> lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is >>>>> that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all >>>>> its loans. >>>>> >>>>> Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for >>>>> a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued >>>>> turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So >>>>> it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury >>>>> Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend >>>>> payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper >>>>> article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. >>>>> >>>>> The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the >>>>> current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used >>>>> successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two >>>>> stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got >>>>> Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout >>>>> money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to >>>>> consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and >>>>> developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? >>>>> >>>>> Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and >>>>> developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project >>>>> to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the >>>>> forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing >>>>> campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its >>>>> builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial >>>>> teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed >>>>> 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the >>>>> loan. >>>>> >>>>> "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price >>>>> explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to >>>>> help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a >>>>> cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it >>>>> will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking >>>>> a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the >>>>> public relations bump isn't bad either. >>>>> >>>>> What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking >>>>> of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know >>>>> that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a >>>>> damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well >>>>> capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he >>>>> feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it >>>>> in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well >>>>> as his shareholders. >>>>> >>>>> In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money >>>>> to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money >>>>> that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far >>>>> in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital >>>>> does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out >>>>> and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at >>>>> a rate of 2.5 percent or less. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama >>>>> administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks >>>>> taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, >>>>> including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth >>>>> of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club >>>>> membership and a company car (driver not included). >>>>> >>>>> And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to >>>>> attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits >>>>> during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times >>>>> the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? >>>>> >>>>> So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put >>>>> to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker >>>>> with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny >>>>> executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, >>>>> somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government >>>>> bailout money than any of you? >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> -- >> David Bradley >> +1.206.234.3977 >> dwbrad at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090211/02899686/attachment-0001.html From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 18:49:56 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:49:56 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The problem we're facing now Message-ID: <49936424.5040400@gmail.com> I've tried to explain this before to people and as usual, their eyes glaze over. I can't remember if I've ever mentioned here or not. If I did, I'm sure no one took too much interest. It's good to see I'm not the only one that sees this. http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/02/wealth-does-not-pass-three-generations.html Wealth Does Not Pass Three Generations Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer likens economy to depressions of 1837, 1873, and 1929 Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer sketched a dire portrait of the world economy on Friday, likening it to market conditions in 1837, 1873, and 1929, each of which involved bank failures, high unemployment, and a depression. "This is a once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis," Ballmer told a retreat of House Democrats in Williamsburg, Va. "There is a lot of history around that, and frankly if you stop and think about it, 1837, 1873, 1929, 2008, it's almost exactly a whole lifetime between each of the major economic difficulties that we face." Ballmer said that economic growth in the last 25 years was fueled by innovation, globalization, and debt--and that the current levels of debt were unsustainable. "In 1929, for example, just before the stock market crash, the private debt-to-GDP ratio was 160 percent," he said. "Last year, private sector debt as a percentage of the GDP: 300 percent, far more leverage." His warning of a protracted downturn that could become a depression comes amid a stock market that is down by more than 40 percent from its October 2007 peak, and housing prices in many metro areas that have been falling consistently since July 2006--a feat not equalled since the Great Depression. "In my view, what we now have will be a fundamental economic reset," he said. "The economy is going to have to re-establish itself at a level of spending that reflects the real value of underlying assets before we can all start growing again at a healthy rate." Balmer is describing the K-Cycle. For more on the K-Cycle please see The Kondratieff Cycle Revisited . Here is a chart from the article showing a longer term view: The Chinese have an expression that can roughly be likened to what Steve Ballmer is saying. Here is the expression and the translation: ???? ? (fu bu guo san dai) Literally: Wealth does not pass three generations Meaning: It's rare the wealth of a family can last for three generations (the 2nd may see the value of hard work, the 3rd, forget it). [Mish Note: The following example is based in the South African currency of the Rand, but that does not detract from the message.] Year zero: First generation: Wealth creation Starting capital: Zero. The family income generators (2 parents) are hard-working and manage to invest 10% of their after-tax income equating to R30/month into the South African stock market. (Yes, this was pre-Union, but we did say "equating to"). Remember this is the sixties and an income of R300 is a very decent monthly wage. Year 45: Second generation: Wealth preservation The parents ensured that their three children didn't have to experience hard times. The children attended decent enough schools and were fortunate enough to mix with similarly privileged friends. There is general unease in the family however, as the second generation gain independence. The pressures of wanting to keep up with the lifestyles of their wealthier friends, coupled with an unfortunate down-turn in the economy, results in a halt in savings and as a result the R10.5m family wealth no longer enjoys any debit order increases. In addition, the capital base is required to maintain an income for the folks who have now retired. Year 75: Third generation: Wealth destruction The second generation finally inherit the family wealth and it is split three ways. By this time the R45,000/month comfortable family living has ballooned to R600,000/month as a result of inflation. Each family now only enjoys income from a capital base of R110m and, because they themselves are approaching retirement they opt to de-risk their portfolios, which results in the capital invested unfortunately realising a more sedate 3% real rate of return. After a torturous revelation later on in life, one of the 3rd generation children decided to carve out a career as a financial advisor. She made the following insightful observations: 1. Her grandparents did a fantastic job of consistently placing 10% of their monthly income into an equity investment over a 45 year period. 2. As they had generated sufficient capital to live off the dividend income there from, her grandparents had stuck with their equity investment throughout their retirement. 3. Unfortunately, her parents had failed to adopt a savings ethic and they had relied optimistically on their inheritances to generate their own retirement income. 4. The 3rd generation children (herself included) failed to comprehend the importance of generating an income and as a result were unable to adopt a savings plan or meet their own costs. Time to start again. *The Role Of Attitudes* Another interpretation of the expression involves the changing role of attitudes towards debt and asset accumulation over time. This is how I see it: Few alive remember the great depression. Most boomers headed into retirement have seen rising asset prices all their lives. Those boomers thought they could live off their houses and/or investments in the stock market, expecting prices to rise forever, even though it was mathematically impossible for that to happen. Now, headed into retirement, boomers are realizing they are actually savings poor given that asset prices have crashed. Moreover, children who have seen their parents wiped out in bankruptcy or foreclosed on are going to have a completely different attitude towards debt than their reckless parents did. Expect to see more frugality from parents and their children alike. Three generations from now the lessons of today will have again been forgotten and the cycle will repeat. Mike "Mish" Shedlock -- I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. Joel, mount hope, USA From dwbrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 19:19:53 2009 From: dwbrad at gmail.com (David Bradley) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:19:53 -0800 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking In-Reply-To: <49934BF1.3070603@effros.com> References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> <4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com> <04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> <763F639F79224D94ADF797601A4221A8@ebsoffice> <49934BF1.3070603@effros.com> Message-ID: <5c154df70902111619u5036ed84u5959615aba03d145@mail.gmail.com> So, there is no line to be drawn? I really disagree. Enron, illegeal. Dot.coms, good for a while but dumb. Flipping houses - you win or you lose. The line exists, and logic says it was crossed. Not by "little people" buying beyond their means, but by the banks making the market by piling up the paper with no reserves. These guys are not stupid. Greed and the fear of not delivering quarterly earnings growth caused them to bury the facts on the risk they were taking. The naysayer were silenced. They misled shareholders, failed to disclose material information, and manipulated earnings and their stock prices. That's illegal. If the Feds are too wimpy to go after them, the Boards and CEOs of the banks should be subjected to massive shareholder actions. A civil trial will get to the truth. There is no @#$ way they didn't know they were putting their shareholders at risk. I hear the FBI is hiring. The guys at the SEC who turned a deaf ear on Madoff should be investigated - it's inconceivable that there wasn't a conspriacy there. They should get private rooms in Danbury too. Might need to build a new wing - maybe can pay for that with some stimulus money. Up late in Munich and grumpy, Dave On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Bill Effros wrote: > Mike, > > I have zero sympathy for people who lose money in Ponzi schemes. > > There is a very simple rule -- "Don't invest in anything you can't > understand." > > That's dot-coms; Enron; flipping houses; Madoff; derivatives; and everything > else that simply makes no sense. > > Madoff got away with it for so long because the people investing with him > were greedy and happily looked the other way. Most of the long-term > investors probably took out more over the years than they put in. What did > they care that it made no sense? They were pulling in their friends so > Madoff would be able to pay them. > > They all thought they were so much smarter than the next person. In fact, > they were smug in that belief. > > So they turned out to be wrong. > > Meanwhile, the government reaped huge taxes from imaginary profits on > non-existent trades. > > No one had any incentive to state the obvious -- "The Emperor has no clothes > on!" > > Fine. Nobody starves. People who have never worked are going to have to > find some way to earn an honest living. > > B. > > > > > Michael D. Weisner wrote: > > The teacher in me replies, "Ah, the student has finally asked the question > that I am prepared to answer as the lesson to be learned." > While the individuals have acted irresponsibly and perhaps unethically, the > blame is on the government. It is not the function of government to create > wealth but rather to maintain an environment within which the private sector > can. The banking and finance industries belong to a very small set of ones > in which I believe that regulation is required. This is not to change > supply and demand but more to impose a set of rules to prevent fraud. > I do not believe that there is an issue of business evils or even greed but > rather condoning the fraudulent behaviors. You need to ask, "Why was a > person like Madoff was permitted to operate outside the law for so long?" > Unfortunately, he was only a $50B tip of a huge iceberg. > Mike > From: "David Bradley" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:05 PM > > > So, MIke or Bill, who in this equation should go to jail, or put in > stocks in the village square? Where do you guys draw the line between > the "evils of big business" and "stupidity" and "greed"? > Dave > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Michael D. Weisner > wrote: > > > Bill, > Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down > on a > $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage > (no > principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the > street > so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to > the > house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus > loan?). > I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original > $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it > is > still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only > worth > $150K. > Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the > bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the > poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the > reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original > home > at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce > inventory before values drop further. > What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat > outright, please. I know, I sleep better. > Mike > From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM > > > Lots of problems with this. > The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks > currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. > Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage > payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right > price. > I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a > $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the > home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. > He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and > gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting > financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. > He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old > home... > B. > Brad Haslett wrote: > > > >From the Washington Post - > Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of > By Steven Pearlstein > Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 > Wall Street is not pleased. > Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a > little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting > new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. > Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the > tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they > demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down > another 5 percent. > By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the > self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the > government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy > loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major > bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and > restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated > profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and > their shareholders. > For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game > to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks > to be arbitraged. > Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy > House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got > us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. > The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave > the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. > But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or > gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the > government's bailout money. > In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if > they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited > Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. > Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community > bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees > that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national > banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the > river in Charlotte. > Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the > Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for > expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 > million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got > into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a > lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is > that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all > its loans. > Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for > a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued > turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So > it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury > Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend > payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper > article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. > The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the > current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used > successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two > stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got > Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout > money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to > consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and > developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? > Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and > developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project > to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the > forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing > campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its > builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial > teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed > 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the > loan. > "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price > explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to > help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a > cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it > will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking > a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the > public relations bump isn't bad either. > What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking > of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know > that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a > damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well > capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he > feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it > in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well > as his shareholders. > In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money > to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money > that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far > in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital > does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out > and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at > a rate of 2.5 percent or less. > By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama > administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks > taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, > including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth > of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club > membership and a company car (driver not included). > And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to > attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits > during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times > the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? > So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put > to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker > with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny > executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, > somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government > bailout money than any of you? > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > -- > David Bradley > +1.206.234.3977 > dwbrad at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > -- David Bradley +1.206.234.3977 dwbrad at gmail.com From bill at effros.com Wed Feb 11 20:07:05 2009 From: bill at effros.com (Bill Effros) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:07:05 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking In-Reply-To: <5c154df70902111619u5036ed84u5959615aba03d145@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> <4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com> <04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> <763F639F79224D94ADF797601A4221A8@ebsoffice> <49934BF1.3070603@effros.com> <5c154df70902111619u5036ed84u5959615aba03d145@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49937639.40601@effros.com> Interesting. Dave, everybody was cheating, and everybody knew it. They called them "liar's loans" when, in fact, it is illegal to lie on bank applications. Federal offense. They called them "sub-prime loans" when, in fact everybody knew they were way over prime. (People were paying "points" for loans they knew were impossible to keep after 2 years -- 2 years later they took another huge loan, paid more points, and went around the world with the extra cash. -- they always paid a huge premium for something everyone still calls "sub-prime".) Brokers provided "comps" to prove this house had to be worth more than that house. Assessors were bought -- and virtually everyone knew it. Government claimed not to be raising taxes -- it was just the assessments that kept going up -- that was the trick right here in Greenwich. They kept running on the fact they weren't raising taxes, but we all knew we paid more every year. People maxed out credit cards and then went bankrupt. Everybody said "buy and hold" on Wall Street -- but every day more than 2 billion shares were bought and sold. Who was buying? Who was selling? (Hint -- they were buying from and selling to each other.) As long as they kept offering more and more, huge taxes were paid, and the value of all the shares not bought or sold on any given day kept increasing. It is not possible to predict within pennies, quarter after quarter, how 100s of companies will do. It's just not possible. We have always known the earnings figures were being manipulated across the board. And now they are all taking a "big bath" -- writing off every mistake they made since the last "big bath" -- who will notice if none of their profits over the past 10 years were real -- they lost this year more than they made for the past 10 years -- but everyone is focused on ... what? It was a nationwide Ponzi scheme, and almost everyone was content with it as long as the good times were rolling. Now everyone is looking for someone to blame. If you put everyone in jail, who will pay the jailer? B. David Bradley wrote: > So, there is no line to be drawn? I really disagree. Enron, > illegeal. Dot.coms, good for a while but dumb. Flipping houses - you > win or you lose. The line exists, and logic says it was crossed. Not > by "little people" buying beyond their means, but by the banks making > the market by piling up the paper with no reserves. These guys are > not stupid. Greed and the fear of not delivering quarterly earnings > growth caused them to bury the facts on the risk they were taking. > The naysayer were silenced. They misled shareholders, failed to > disclose material information, and manipulated earnings and their > stock prices. That's illegal. If the Feds are too wimpy to go after > them, the Boards and CEOs of the banks should be subjected to massive > shareholder actions. A civil trial will get to the truth. There is > no @#$ way they didn't know they were putting their shareholders at > risk. I hear the FBI is hiring. > > The guys at the SEC who turned a deaf ear on Madoff should be > investigated - it's inconceivable that there wasn't a conspriacy > there. They should get private rooms in Danbury too. Might need to > build a new wing - maybe can pay for that with some stimulus money. > > Up late in Munich and grumpy, > > Dave > > > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Bill Effros wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> I have zero sympathy for people who lose money in Ponzi schemes. >> >> There is a very simple rule -- "Don't invest in anything you can't >> understand." >> >> That's dot-coms; Enron; flipping houses; Madoff; derivatives; and everything >> else that simply makes no sense. >> >> Madoff got away with it for so long because the people investing with him >> were greedy and happily looked the other way. Most of the long-term >> investors probably took out more over the years than they put in. What did >> they care that it made no sense? They were pulling in their friends so >> Madoff would be able to pay them. >> >> They all thought they were so much smarter than the next person. In fact, >> they were smug in that belief. >> >> So they turned out to be wrong. >> >> Meanwhile, the government reaped huge taxes from imaginary profits on >> non-existent trades. >> >> No one had any incentive to state the obvious -- "The Emperor has no clothes >> on!" >> >> Fine. Nobody starves. People who have never worked are going to have to >> find some way to earn an honest living. >> >> B. >> >> >> >> >> Michael D. Weisner wrote: >> >> The teacher in me replies, "Ah, the student has finally asked the question >> that I am prepared to answer as the lesson to be learned." >> While the individuals have acted irresponsibly and perhaps unethically, the >> blame is on the government. It is not the function of government to create >> wealth but rather to maintain an environment within which the private sector >> can. The banking and finance industries belong to a very small set of ones >> in which I believe that regulation is required. This is not to change >> supply and demand but more to impose a set of rules to prevent fraud. >> I do not believe that there is an issue of business evils or even greed but >> rather condoning the fraudulent behaviors. You need to ask, "Why was a >> person like Madoff was permitted to operate outside the law for so long?" >> Unfortunately, he was only a $50B tip of a huge iceberg. >> Mike >> From: "David Bradley" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:05 PM >> >> >> So, MIke or Bill, who in this equation should go to jail, or put in >> stocks in the village square? Where do you guys draw the line between >> the "evils of big business" and "stupidity" and "greed"? >> Dave >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Michael D. Weisner >> wrote: >> >> >> Bill, >> Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down >> on a >> $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage >> (no >> principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the >> street >> so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to >> the >> house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus >> loan?). >> I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original >> $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it >> is >> still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only >> worth >> $150K. >> Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the >> bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the >> poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the >> reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original >> home >> at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce >> inventory before values drop further. >> What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat >> outright, please. I know, I sleep better. >> Mike >> From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM >> >> >> Lots of problems with this. >> The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks >> currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. >> Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage >> payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right >> price. >> I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a >> $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the >> home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. >> He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and >> gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting >> financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. >> He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old >> home... >> B. >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >> >> >From the Washington Post - >> Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of >> By Steven Pearlstein >> Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 >> Wall Street is not pleased. >> Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a >> little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting >> new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. >> Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the >> tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they >> demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down >> another 5 percent. >> By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the >> self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the >> government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy >> loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major >> bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and >> restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated >> profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and >> their shareholders. >> For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game >> to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks >> to be arbitraged. >> Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy >> House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got >> us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. >> The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave >> the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. >> But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or >> gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the >> government's bailout money. >> In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if >> they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited >> Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. >> Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community >> bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees >> that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national >> banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the >> river in Charlotte. >> Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the >> Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for >> expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 >> million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got >> into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a >> lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is >> that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all >> its loans. >> Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for >> a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued >> turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So >> it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury >> Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend >> payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper >> article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. >> The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the >> current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used >> successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two >> stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got >> Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout >> money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to >> consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and >> developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? >> Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and >> developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project >> to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the >> forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing >> campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its >> builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial >> teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed >> 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the >> loan. >> "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price >> explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to >> help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a >> cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it >> will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking >> a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the >> public relations bump isn't bad either. >> What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking >> of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know >> that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a >> damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well >> capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he >> feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it >> in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well >> as his shareholders. >> In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money >> to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money >> that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far >> in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital >> does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out >> and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at >> a rate of 2.5 percent or less. >> By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama >> administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks >> taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, >> including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth >> of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club >> membership and a company car (driver not included). >> And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to >> attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits >> during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times >> the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? >> So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put >> to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker >> with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny >> executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, >> somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government >> bailout money than any of you? >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> -- >> David Bradley >> +1.206.234.3977 >> dwbrad at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090211/b159088a/attachment-0001.html From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 21:57:23 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:57:23 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The problem we're facing now In-Reply-To: <49936424.5040400@gmail.com> References: <49936424.5040400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902111857x52f4bab2q5feac9230f9d68fb@mail.gmail.com> Rik, Interesting article. Balmer uses much of the same language and phrases as Fred Smith, CEO and founder of FedEx - de-leveraging, over-leveraging of financial institutions, re-setting the economy, etc. All these recent schemes from the Congress to keep people in over-valued homes, keeping banks "solvent" that are upside-down, and bailing out Detroit are doomed. Yes, this will be painful. I believe it was you who used the phrase, "stupid is supposed to be painful". Brad On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > I've tried to explain this before to people and as usual, their eyes > glaze over. I can't remember if I've ever mentioned here or not. If I > did, I'm sure no one took too much interest. It's good to see I'm not > the only one that sees this. > > http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/02/wealth-does-not-pass-three-generations.html > > > Wealth Does Not Pass Three Generations > > > > > > Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer likens economy to depressions of > 1837, 1873, and 1929 > > Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer sketched a dire portrait of > the world economy on Friday, likening it to market conditions in > 1837, 1873, and 1929, each of which involved bank failures, high > unemployment, and a depression. > > "This is a once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis," Ballmer told a > retreat of House Democrats in Williamsburg, Va. "There is a lot of > history around that, and frankly if you stop and think about it, > 1837, 1873, 1929, 2008, it's almost exactly a whole lifetime between > each of the major economic difficulties that we face." > > Ballmer said that economic growth in the last 25 years was fueled by > innovation, globalization, and debt--and that the current levels of > debt were unsustainable. "In 1929, for example, just before the > stock market crash, the private debt-to-GDP ratio was 160 percent," > he said. "Last year, private sector debt as a percentage of the GDP: > 300 percent, far more leverage." > > His warning of a protracted downturn that could become a depression > comes amid a stock market that is down by more than 40 percent from > its October 2007 peak, and housing prices in many metro areas that > have been falling consistently since July 2006--a feat not equalled > since the Great Depression. > > "In my view, what we now have will be a fundamental economic reset," > he said. "The economy is going to have to re-establish itself at a > level of spending that reflects the real value of underlying assets > before we can all start growing again at a healthy rate." > > Balmer is describing the K-Cycle. For more on the K-Cycle please see The > Kondratieff Cycle Revisited > . > Here is a chart from the article showing a longer term view: > > > The Chinese have an expression that can roughly be likened to what Steve > Ballmer is saying. Here is the expression and the translation: ???? > ? > (fu > bu guo san dai) Literally: Wealth does not pass three generations > > > Meaning: It's rare the wealth of a family can last for three > generations (the 2nd may see the value of hard work, the 3rd, forget > it). > > [Mish Note: The following example is based in the South African > currency of the Rand, but that does not detract from the message.] > > Year zero: First generation: Wealth creation > > Starting capital: Zero. The family income generators (2 parents) are > hard-working and manage to invest 10% of their after-tax income > equating to R30/month into the South African stock market. (Yes, > this was pre-Union, but we did say "equating to"). Remember this is > the sixties and an income of R300 is a very decent monthly wage. > > Year 45: Second generation: Wealth preservation > > The parents ensured that their three children didn't have to > experience hard times. The children attended decent enough schools > and were fortunate enough to mix with similarly privileged friends. > There is general unease in the family however, as the second > generation gain independence. > > The pressures of wanting to keep up with the lifestyles of their > wealthier friends, coupled with an unfortunate down-turn in the > economy, results in a halt in savings and as a result the R10.5m > family wealth no longer enjoys any debit order increases. In > addition, the capital base is required to maintain an income for the > folks who have now retired. > > Year 75: Third generation: Wealth destruction > > The second generation finally inherit the family wealth and it is > split three ways. By this time the R45,000/month comfortable family > living has ballooned to R600,000/month as a result of inflation. > Each family now only enjoys income from a capital base of R110m and, > because they themselves are approaching retirement they opt to > de-risk their portfolios, which results in the capital invested > unfortunately realising a more sedate 3% real rate of return. > > After a torturous revelation later on in life, one of the 3rd > generation children decided to carve out a career as a financial > advisor. She made the following insightful observations: > > 1. Her grandparents did a fantastic job of consistently placing 10% > of their monthly income into an equity investment over a 45 year period. > > 2. As they had generated sufficient capital to live off the dividend > income there from, her grandparents had stuck with their equity > investment throughout their retirement. > > 3. Unfortunately, her parents had failed to adopt a savings ethic > and they had relied optimistically on their inheritances to generate > their own retirement income. > > 4. The 3rd generation children (herself included) failed to > comprehend the importance of generating an income and as a result > were unable to adopt a savings plan or meet their own costs. > > Time to start again. > > *The Role Of Attitudes* > > Another interpretation of the expression involves the changing role of > attitudes towards debt and asset accumulation over time. This is how I > see it: > > Few alive remember the great depression. Most boomers headed into > retirement have seen rising asset prices all their lives. Those boomers > thought they could live off their houses and/or investments in the stock > market, expecting prices to rise forever, even though it was > mathematically impossible for that to happen. Now, headed into > retirement, boomers are realizing they are actually savings poor given > that asset prices have crashed. > > Moreover, children who have seen their parents wiped out in bankruptcy > or foreclosed on are going to have a completely different attitude > towards debt than their reckless parents did. Expect to see more > frugality from parents and their children alike. > > Three generations from now the lessons of today will have again been > forgotten and the cycle will repeat. > > Mike "Mish" Shedlock > > > -- > I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. > Joel, mount hope, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 22:33:36 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:33:36 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The problem we're facing now In-Reply-To: <400985d70902111857x52f4bab2q5feac9230f9d68fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <49936424.5040400@gmail.com> <400985d70902111857x52f4bab2q5feac9230f9d68fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49939890.2050501@gmail.com> Brad, One of the few quotes I can claim as mine :-) Now if I could just get the O one and co. to understand a little pain might do wonders for the character of our country. One of my other favorite sayings: A little pain builds character. Rik "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, > > Interesting article. Balmer uses much of the same language and > phrases as Fred Smith, CEO and founder of FedEx - de-leveraging, > over-leveraging of financial institutions, re-setting the economy, > etc. All these recent schemes from the Congress to keep people in > over-valued homes, keeping banks "solvent" that are upside-down, and > bailing out Detroit are doomed. > > Yes, this will be painful. I believe it was you who used the phrase, > "stupid is supposed to be painful". > > Brad > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: > >> I've tried to explain this before to people and as usual, their eyes >> glaze over. I can't remember if I've ever mentioned here or not. If I >> did, I'm sure no one took too much interest. It's good to see I'm not >> the only one that sees this. >> >> http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/02/wealth-does-not-pass-three-generations.html >> >> >> Wealth Does Not Pass Three Generations >> >> >> >> >> >> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer likens economy to depressions of >> 1837, 1873, and 1929 >> >> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer sketched a dire portrait of >> the world economy on Friday, likening it to market conditions in >> 1837, 1873, and 1929, each of which involved bank failures, high >> unemployment, and a depression. >> >> "This is a once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis," Ballmer told a >> retreat of House Democrats in Williamsburg, Va. "There is a lot of >> history around that, and frankly if you stop and think about it, >> 1837, 1873, 1929, 2008, it's almost exactly a whole lifetime between >> each of the major economic difficulties that we face." >> >> Ballmer said that economic growth in the last 25 years was fueled by >> innovation, globalization, and debt--and that the current levels of >> debt were unsustainable. "In 1929, for example, just before the >> stock market crash, the private debt-to-GDP ratio was 160 percent," >> he said. "Last year, private sector debt as a percentage of the GDP: >> 300 percent, far more leverage." >> >> His warning of a protracted downturn that could become a depression >> comes amid a stock market that is down by more than 40 percent from >> its October 2007 peak, and housing prices in many metro areas that >> have been falling consistently since July 2006--a feat not equalled >> since the Great Depression. >> >> "In my view, what we now have will be a fundamental economic reset," >> he said. "The economy is going to have to re-establish itself at a >> level of spending that reflects the real value of underlying assets >> before we can all start growing again at a healthy rate." >> >> Balmer is describing the K-Cycle. For more on the K-Cycle please see The >> Kondratieff Cycle Revisited >> . >> Here is a chart from the article showing a longer term view: >> >> >> The Chinese have an expression that can roughly be likened to what Steve >> Ballmer is saying. Here is the expression and the translation: ???? >> ? >> (fu >> bu guo san dai) Literally: Wealth does not pass three generations >> >> >> Meaning: It's rare the wealth of a family can last for three >> generations (the 2nd may see the value of hard work, the 3rd, forget >> it). >> >> [Mish Note: The following example is based in the South African >> currency of the Rand, but that does not detract from the message.] >> >> Year zero: First generation: Wealth creation >> >> Starting capital: Zero. The family income generators (2 parents) are >> hard-working and manage to invest 10% of their after-tax income >> equating to R30/month into the South African stock market. (Yes, >> this was pre-Union, but we did say "equating to"). Remember this is >> the sixties and an income of R300 is a very decent monthly wage. >> >> Year 45: Second generation: Wealth preservation >> >> The parents ensured that their three children didn't have to >> experience hard times. The children attended decent enough schools >> and were fortunate enough to mix with similarly privileged friends. >> There is general unease in the family however, as the second >> generation gain independence. >> >> The pressures of wanting to keep up with the lifestyles of their >> wealthier friends, coupled with an unfortunate down-turn in the >> economy, results in a halt in savings and as a result the R10.5m >> family wealth no longer enjoys any debit order increases. In >> addition, the capital base is required to maintain an income for the >> folks who have now retired. >> >> Year 75: Third generation: Wealth destruction >> >> The second generation finally inherit the family wealth and it is >> split three ways. By this time the R45,000/month comfortable family >> living has ballooned to R600,000/month as a result of inflation. >> Each family now only enjoys income from a capital base of R110m and, >> because they themselves are approaching retirement they opt to >> de-risk their portfolios, which results in the capital invested >> unfortunately realising a more sedate 3% real rate of return. >> >> After a torturous revelation later on in life, one of the 3rd >> generation children decided to carve out a career as a financial >> advisor. She made the following insightful observations: >> >> 1. Her grandparents did a fantastic job of consistently placing 10% >> of their monthly income into an equity investment over a 45 year period. >> >> 2. As they had generated sufficient capital to live off the dividend >> income there from, her grandparents had stuck with their equity >> investment throughout their retirement. >> >> 3. Unfortunately, her parents had failed to adopt a savings ethic >> and they had relied optimistically on their inheritances to generate >> their own retirement income. >> >> 4. The 3rd generation children (herself included) failed to >> comprehend the importance of generating an income and as a result >> were unable to adopt a savings plan or meet their own costs. >> >> Time to start again. >> >> *The Role Of Attitudes* >> >> Another interpretation of the expression involves the changing role of >> attitudes towards debt and asset accumulation over time. This is how I >> see it: >> >> Few alive remember the great depression. Most boomers headed into >> retirement have seen rising asset prices all their lives. Those boomers >> thought they could live off their houses and/or investments in the stock >> market, expecting prices to rise forever, even though it was >> mathematically impossible for that to happen. Now, headed into >> retirement, boomers are realizing they are actually savings poor given >> that asset prices have crashed. >> >> Moreover, children who have seen their parents wiped out in bankruptcy >> or foreclosed on are going to have a completely different attitude >> towards debt than their reckless parents did. Expect to see more >> frugality from parents and their children alike. >> >> Three generations from now the lessons of today will have again been >> forgotten and the cycle will repeat. >> >> Mike "Mish" Shedlock >> >> >> -- >> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >> Joel, mount hope, USA >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 22:49:16 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:49:16 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The problem we're facing now In-Reply-To: <49939890.2050501@gmail.com> References: <49936424.5040400@gmail.com> <400985d70902111857x52f4bab2q5feac9230f9d68fb@mail.gmail.com> <49939890.2050501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902111949q1022a7dfmfb9a788c75845a97@mail.gmail.com> Rik, "A little pain builds character". That reminds me of an evening, circa 1992, when I was sitting alone (as in single) in my brand new 4000 sq. ft. house, having just commuted home from NYC to Nashville, and enjoying a major pity party. I walked across the road to visit with my neighbors, both retired school teachers. Somewhere in the middle of my "oh, woe is me tale", Marvin said, "son, whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger". It pissed me off at the time but I've probably repeated it a thousand times since to my kids. I don't have all the answers to our current problems but I did learn this from both giving and taking oral exams and checkrides as a pilot for 37 years: If someone hands you a shovel, that doesn't mean you have to dig a hole. If you find yourself in a hole - stop digging! Did I also mention I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night? Brad 2009/2/11 Rik Sandberg : > Brad, > > One of the few quotes I can claim as mine :-) > > Now if I could just get the O one and co. to understand a little pain > might do wonders for the character of our country. > > One of my other favorite sayings: A little pain builds character. > > Rik > > "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Rik, >> >> Interesting article. Balmer uses much of the same language and >> phrases as Fred Smith, CEO and founder of FedEx - de-leveraging, >> over-leveraging of financial institutions, re-setting the economy, >> etc. All these recent schemes from the Congress to keep people in >> over-valued homes, keeping banks "solvent" that are upside-down, and >> bailing out Detroit are doomed. >> >> Yes, this will be painful. I believe it was you who used the phrase, >> "stupid is supposed to be painful". >> >> Brad >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >> >>> I've tried to explain this before to people and as usual, their eyes >>> glaze over. I can't remember if I've ever mentioned here or not. If I >>> did, I'm sure no one took too much interest. It's good to see I'm not >>> the only one that sees this. >>> >>> http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/02/wealth-does-not-pass-three-generations.html >>> >>> >>> Wealth Does Not Pass Three Generations >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer likens economy to depressions of >>> 1837, 1873, and 1929 >>> >>> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer sketched a dire portrait of >>> the world economy on Friday, likening it to market conditions in >>> 1837, 1873, and 1929, each of which involved bank failures, high >>> unemployment, and a depression. >>> >>> "This is a once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis," Ballmer told a >>> retreat of House Democrats in Williamsburg, Va. "There is a lot of >>> history around that, and frankly if you stop and think about it, >>> 1837, 1873, 1929, 2008, it's almost exactly a whole lifetime between >>> each of the major economic difficulties that we face." >>> >>> Ballmer said that economic growth in the last 25 years was fueled by >>> innovation, globalization, and debt--and that the current levels of >>> debt were unsustainable. "In 1929, for example, just before the >>> stock market crash, the private debt-to-GDP ratio was 160 percent," >>> he said. "Last year, private sector debt as a percentage of the GDP: >>> 300 percent, far more leverage." >>> >>> His warning of a protracted downturn that could become a depression >>> comes amid a stock market that is down by more than 40 percent from >>> its October 2007 peak, and housing prices in many metro areas that >>> have been falling consistently since July 2006--a feat not equalled >>> since the Great Depression. >>> >>> "In my view, what we now have will be a fundamental economic reset," >>> he said. "The economy is going to have to re-establish itself at a >>> level of spending that reflects the real value of underlying assets >>> before we can all start growing again at a healthy rate." >>> >>> Balmer is describing the K-Cycle. For more on the K-Cycle please see The >>> Kondratieff Cycle Revisited >>> . >>> Here is a chart from the article showing a longer term view: >>> >>> >>> The Chinese have an expression that can roughly be likened to what Steve >>> Ballmer is saying. Here is the expression and the translation: ???? >>> ? >>> (fu >>> bu guo san dai) Literally: Wealth does not pass three generations >>> >>> >>> Meaning: It's rare the wealth of a family can last for three >>> generations (the 2nd may see the value of hard work, the 3rd, forget >>> it). >>> >>> [Mish Note: The following example is based in the South African >>> currency of the Rand, but that does not detract from the message.] >>> >>> Year zero: First generation: Wealth creation >>> >>> Starting capital: Zero. The family income generators (2 parents) are >>> hard-working and manage to invest 10% of their after-tax income >>> equating to R30/month into the South African stock market. (Yes, >>> this was pre-Union, but we did say "equating to"). Remember this is >>> the sixties and an income of R300 is a very decent monthly wage. >>> >>> Year 45: Second generation: Wealth preservation >>> >>> The parents ensured that their three children didn't have to >>> experience hard times. The children attended decent enough schools >>> and were fortunate enough to mix with similarly privileged friends. >>> There is general unease in the family however, as the second >>> generation gain independence. >>> >>> The pressures of wanting to keep up with the lifestyles of their >>> wealthier friends, coupled with an unfortunate down-turn in the >>> economy, results in a halt in savings and as a result the R10.5m >>> family wealth no longer enjoys any debit order increases. In >>> addition, the capital base is required to maintain an income for the >>> folks who have now retired. >>> >>> Year 75: Third generation: Wealth destruction >>> >>> The second generation finally inherit the family wealth and it is >>> split three ways. By this time the R45,000/month comfortable family >>> living has ballooned to R600,000/month as a result of inflation. >>> Each family now only enjoys income from a capital base of R110m and, >>> because they themselves are approaching retirement they opt to >>> de-risk their portfolios, which results in the capital invested >>> unfortunately realising a more sedate 3% real rate of return. >>> >>> After a torturous revelation later on in life, one of the 3rd >>> generation children decided to carve out a career as a financial >>> advisor. She made the following insightful observations: >>> >>> 1. Her grandparents did a fantastic job of consistently placing 10% >>> of their monthly income into an equity investment over a 45 year period. >>> >>> 2. As they had generated sufficient capital to live off the dividend >>> income there from, her grandparents had stuck with their equity >>> investment throughout their retirement. >>> >>> 3. Unfortunately, her parents had failed to adopt a savings ethic >>> and they had relied optimistically on their inheritances to generate >>> their own retirement income. >>> >>> 4. The 3rd generation children (herself included) failed to >>> comprehend the importance of generating an income and as a result >>> were unable to adopt a savings plan or meet their own costs. >>> >>> Time to start again. >>> >>> *The Role Of Attitudes* >>> >>> Another interpretation of the expression involves the changing role of >>> attitudes towards debt and asset accumulation over time. This is how I >>> see it: >>> >>> Few alive remember the great depression. Most boomers headed into >>> retirement have seen rising asset prices all their lives. Those boomers >>> thought they could live off their houses and/or investments in the stock >>> market, expecting prices to rise forever, even though it was >>> mathematically impossible for that to happen. Now, headed into >>> retirement, boomers are realizing they are actually savings poor given >>> that asset prices have crashed. >>> >>> Moreover, children who have seen their parents wiped out in bankruptcy >>> or foreclosed on are going to have a completely different attitude >>> towards debt than their reckless parents did. Expect to see more >>> frugality from parents and their children alike. >>> >>> Three generations from now the lessons of today will have again been >>> forgotten and the cycle will repeat. >>> >>> Mike "Mish" Shedlock >>> >>> >>> -- >>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From sanderico1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 23:11:21 2009 From: sanderico1 at gmail.com (Rik Sandberg) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:11:21 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The problem we're facing now In-Reply-To: <400985d70902111949q1022a7dfmfb9a788c75845a97@mail.gmail.com> References: <49936424.5040400@gmail.com> <400985d70902111857x52f4bab2q5feac9230f9d68fb@mail.gmail.com> <49939890.2050501@gmail.com> <400985d70902111949q1022a7dfmfb9a788c75845a97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4993A169.5090007@gmail.com> Brad, And as much as I wasn't really looking forward to becoming even stronger still, I guess we will get through this phase of our citizenship probably, mostly intact. There's opportunity on the other end. Rik "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg Brad Haslett wrote: > Rik, > > "A little pain builds character". > > That reminds me of an evening, circa 1992, when I was sitting alone > (as in single) in my brand new 4000 sq. ft. house, having just > commuted home from NYC to Nashville, and enjoying a major pity party. > I walked across the road to visit with my neighbors, both retired > school teachers. Somewhere in the middle of my "oh, woe is me tale", > Marvin said, "son, whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger". It > pissed me off at the time but I've probably repeated it a thousand > times since to my kids. > > I don't have all the answers to our current problems but I did learn > this from both giving and taking oral exams and checkrides as a pilot > for 37 years: If someone hands you a shovel, that doesn't mean you > have to dig a hole. If you find yourself in a hole - stop digging! > > Did I also mention I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night? > > Brad > > 2009/2/11 Rik Sandberg : > >> Brad, >> >> One of the few quotes I can claim as mine :-) >> >> Now if I could just get the O one and co. to understand a little pain >> might do wonders for the character of our country. >> >> One of my other favorite sayings: A little pain builds character. >> >> Rik >> >> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Rik, >>> >>> Interesting article. Balmer uses much of the same language and >>> phrases as Fred Smith, CEO and founder of FedEx - de-leveraging, >>> over-leveraging of financial institutions, re-setting the economy, >>> etc. All these recent schemes from the Congress to keep people in >>> over-valued homes, keeping banks "solvent" that are upside-down, and >>> bailing out Detroit are doomed. >>> >>> Yes, this will be painful. I believe it was you who used the phrase, >>> "stupid is supposed to be painful". >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I've tried to explain this before to people and as usual, their eyes >>>> glaze over. I can't remember if I've ever mentioned here or not. If I >>>> did, I'm sure no one took too much interest. It's good to see I'm not >>>> the only one that sees this. >>>> >>>> http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/02/wealth-does-not-pass-three-generations.html >>>> >>>> >>>> Wealth Does Not Pass Three Generations >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer likens economy to depressions of >>>> 1837, 1873, and 1929 >>>> >>>> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer sketched a dire portrait of >>>> the world economy on Friday, likening it to market conditions in >>>> 1837, 1873, and 1929, each of which involved bank failures, high >>>> unemployment, and a depression. >>>> >>>> "This is a once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis," Ballmer told a >>>> retreat of House Democrats in Williamsburg, Va. "There is a lot of >>>> history around that, and frankly if you stop and think about it, >>>> 1837, 1873, 1929, 2008, it's almost exactly a whole lifetime between >>>> each of the major economic difficulties that we face." >>>> >>>> Ballmer said that economic growth in the last 25 years was fueled by >>>> innovation, globalization, and debt--and that the current levels of >>>> debt were unsustainable. "In 1929, for example, just before the >>>> stock market crash, the private debt-to-GDP ratio was 160 percent," >>>> he said. "Last year, private sector debt as a percentage of the GDP: >>>> 300 percent, far more leverage." >>>> >>>> His warning of a protracted downturn that could become a depression >>>> comes amid a stock market that is down by more than 40 percent from >>>> its October 2007 peak, and housing prices in many metro areas that >>>> have been falling consistently since July 2006--a feat not equalled >>>> since the Great Depression. >>>> >>>> "In my view, what we now have will be a fundamental economic reset," >>>> he said. "The economy is going to have to re-establish itself at a >>>> level of spending that reflects the real value of underlying assets >>>> before we can all start growing again at a healthy rate." >>>> >>>> Balmer is describing the K-Cycle. For more on the K-Cycle please see The >>>> Kondratieff Cycle Revisited >>>> . >>>> Here is a chart from the article showing a longer term view: >>>> >>>> >>>> The Chinese have an expression that can roughly be likened to what Steve >>>> Ballmer is saying. Here is the expression and the translation: ???? >>>> ? >>>> (fu >>>> bu guo san dai) Literally: Wealth does not pass three generations >>>> >>>> >>>> Meaning: It's rare the wealth of a family can last for three >>>> generations (the 2nd may see the value of hard work, the 3rd, forget >>>> it). >>>> >>>> [Mish Note: The following example is based in the South African >>>> currency of the Rand, but that does not detract from the message.] >>>> >>>> Year zero: First generation: Wealth creation >>>> >>>> Starting capital: Zero. The family income generators (2 parents) are >>>> hard-working and manage to invest 10% of their after-tax income >>>> equating to R30/month into the South African stock market. (Yes, >>>> this was pre-Union, but we did say "equating to"). Remember this is >>>> the sixties and an income of R300 is a very decent monthly wage. >>>> >>>> Year 45: Second generation: Wealth preservation >>>> >>>> The parents ensured that their three children didn't have to >>>> experience hard times. The children attended decent enough schools >>>> and were fortunate enough to mix with similarly privileged friends. >>>> There is general unease in the family however, as the second >>>> generation gain independence. >>>> >>>> The pressures of wanting to keep up with the lifestyles of their >>>> wealthier friends, coupled with an unfortunate down-turn in the >>>> economy, results in a halt in savings and as a result the R10.5m >>>> family wealth no longer enjoys any debit order increases. In >>>> addition, the capital base is required to maintain an income for the >>>> folks who have now retired. >>>> >>>> Year 75: Third generation: Wealth destruction >>>> >>>> The second generation finally inherit the family wealth and it is >>>> split three ways. By this time the R45,000/month comfortable family >>>> living has ballooned to R600,000/month as a result of inflation. >>>> Each family now only enjoys income from a capital base of R110m and, >>>> because they themselves are approaching retirement they opt to >>>> de-risk their portfolios, which results in the capital invested >>>> unfortunately realising a more sedate 3% real rate of return. >>>> >>>> After a torturous revelation later on in life, one of the 3rd >>>> generation children decided to carve out a career as a financial >>>> advisor. She made the following insightful observations: >>>> >>>> 1. Her grandparents did a fantastic job of consistently placing 10% >>>> of their monthly income into an equity investment over a 45 year period. >>>> >>>> 2. As they had generated sufficient capital to live off the dividend >>>> income there from, her grandparents had stuck with their equity >>>> investment throughout their retirement. >>>> >>>> 3. Unfortunately, her parents had failed to adopt a savings ethic >>>> and they had relied optimistically on their inheritances to generate >>>> their own retirement income. >>>> >>>> 4. The 3rd generation children (herself included) failed to >>>> comprehend the importance of generating an income and as a result >>>> were unable to adopt a savings plan or meet their own costs. >>>> >>>> Time to start again. >>>> >>>> *The Role Of Attitudes* >>>> >>>> Another interpretation of the expression involves the changing role of >>>> attitudes towards debt and asset accumulation over time. This is how I >>>> see it: >>>> >>>> Few alive remember the great depression. Most boomers headed into >>>> retirement have seen rising asset prices all their lives. Those boomers >>>> thought they could live off their houses and/or investments in the stock >>>> market, expecting prices to rise forever, even though it was >>>> mathematically impossible for that to happen. Now, headed into >>>> retirement, boomers are realizing they are actually savings poor given >>>> that asset prices have crashed. >>>> >>>> Moreover, children who have seen their parents wiped out in bankruptcy >>>> or foreclosed on are going to have a completely different attitude >>>> towards debt than their reckless parents did. Expect to see more >>>> frugality from parents and their children alike. >>>> >>>> Three generations from now the lessons of today will have again been >>>> forgotten and the cycle will repeat. >>>> >>>> Mike "Mish" Shedlock >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >>>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 00:06:27 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:06:27 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] The problem we're facing now In-Reply-To: <4993A169.5090007@gmail.com> References: <49936424.5040400@gmail.com> <400985d70902111857x52f4bab2q5feac9230f9d68fb@mail.gmail.com> <49939890.2050501@gmail.com> <400985d70902111949q1022a7dfmfb9a788c75845a97@mail.gmail.com> <4993A169.5090007@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902112106g5faba18akf87c8ecded15496c@mail.gmail.com> Rik, Yeah, not to be too political, but it took Jimmy Carter to get Ronald Reagan. One of the most painful things in life is to give your kids good advice, stuff you learned the hard way, and then watch them go fall on their swords in the same way you did. They eventually figure it out. I've asked my Dad a hundred times, "what was it like during the Great Depression?" The answer is always the same, "we were poor when it began, we were poor when it ended". I really don't think things have changed that much. As Bill pointed out, no one was complaining as long as everyone was "making money". I thought the run-up in real estate prices was silly and didn't participate. You didn't hear me complain when my stocks were "earning" 20%+ per year. Reality sucks but life goes on. I'm just glad there wasn't an FAA around when Wilbur and Orville was fooling around on the beach at Kitty Hawk - we'd still be warping wings and lying on our stomachs whilst flying. Why anyone thinks the "right government" is the solution to everything is way beyond me. Brad 2009/2/11 Rik Sandberg : > Brad, > > And as much as I wasn't really looking forward to becoming even stronger > still, I guess we will get through this phase of our citizenship > probably, mostly intact. > > There's opportunity on the other end. > > Rik > > "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: >> Rik, >> >> "A little pain builds character". >> >> That reminds me of an evening, circa 1992, when I was sitting alone >> (as in single) in my brand new 4000 sq. ft. house, having just >> commuted home from NYC to Nashville, and enjoying a major pity party. >> I walked across the road to visit with my neighbors, both retired >> school teachers. Somewhere in the middle of my "oh, woe is me tale", >> Marvin said, "son, whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger". It >> pissed me off at the time but I've probably repeated it a thousand >> times since to my kids. >> >> I don't have all the answers to our current problems but I did learn >> this from both giving and taking oral exams and checkrides as a pilot >> for 37 years: If someone hands you a shovel, that doesn't mean you >> have to dig a hole. If you find yourself in a hole - stop digging! >> >> Did I also mention I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night? >> >> Brad >> >> 2009/2/11 Rik Sandberg : >> >>> Brad, >>> >>> One of the few quotes I can claim as mine :-) >>> >>> Now if I could just get the O one and co. to understand a little pain >>> might do wonders for the character of our country. >>> >>> One of my other favorite sayings: A little pain builds character. >>> >>> Rik >>> >>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg >>> >>> >>> >>> Brad Haslett wrote: >>> >>>> Rik, >>>> >>>> Interesting article. Balmer uses much of the same language and >>>> phrases as Fred Smith, CEO and founder of FedEx - de-leveraging, >>>> over-leveraging of financial institutions, re-setting the economy, >>>> etc. All these recent schemes from the Congress to keep people in >>>> over-valued homes, keeping banks "solvent" that are upside-down, and >>>> bailing out Detroit are doomed. >>>> >>>> Yes, this will be painful. I believe it was you who used the phrase, >>>> "stupid is supposed to be painful". >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Rik Sandberg wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've tried to explain this before to people and as usual, their eyes >>>>> glaze over. I can't remember if I've ever mentioned here or not. If I >>>>> did, I'm sure no one took too much interest. It's good to see I'm not >>>>> the only one that sees this. >>>>> >>>>> http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/02/wealth-does-not-pass-three-generations.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Wealth Does Not Pass Three Generations >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer likens economy to depressions of >>>>> 1837, 1873, and 1929 >>>>> >>>>> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer sketched a dire portrait of >>>>> the world economy on Friday, likening it to market conditions in >>>>> 1837, 1873, and 1929, each of which involved bank failures, high >>>>> unemployment, and a depression. >>>>> >>>>> "This is a once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis," Ballmer told a >>>>> retreat of House Democrats in Williamsburg, Va. "There is a lot of >>>>> history around that, and frankly if you stop and think about it, >>>>> 1837, 1873, 1929, 2008, it's almost exactly a whole lifetime between >>>>> each of the major economic difficulties that we face." >>>>> >>>>> Ballmer said that economic growth in the last 25 years was fueled by >>>>> innovation, globalization, and debt--and that the current levels of >>>>> debt were unsustainable. "In 1929, for example, just before the >>>>> stock market crash, the private debt-to-GDP ratio was 160 percent," >>>>> he said. "Last year, private sector debt as a percentage of the GDP: >>>>> 300 percent, far more leverage." >>>>> >>>>> His warning of a protracted downturn that could become a depression >>>>> comes amid a stock market that is down by more than 40 percent from >>>>> its October 2007 peak, and housing prices in many metro areas that >>>>> have been falling consistently since July 2006--a feat not equalled >>>>> since the Great Depression. >>>>> >>>>> "In my view, what we now have will be a fundamental economic reset," >>>>> he said. "The economy is going to have to re-establish itself at a >>>>> level of spending that reflects the real value of underlying assets >>>>> before we can all start growing again at a healthy rate." >>>>> >>>>> Balmer is describing the K-Cycle. For more on the K-Cycle please see The >>>>> Kondratieff Cycle Revisited >>>>> . >>>>> Here is a chart from the article showing a longer term view: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The Chinese have an expression that can roughly be likened to what Steve >>>>> Ballmer is saying. Here is the expression and the translation: ???? >>>>> ? >>>>> (fu >>>>> bu guo san dai) Literally: Wealth does not pass three generations >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Meaning: It's rare the wealth of a family can last for three >>>>> generations (the 2nd may see the value of hard work, the 3rd, forget >>>>> it). >>>>> >>>>> [Mish Note: The following example is based in the South African >>>>> currency of the Rand, but that does not detract from the message.] >>>>> >>>>> Year zero: First generation: Wealth creation >>>>> >>>>> Starting capital: Zero. The family income generators (2 parents) are >>>>> hard-working and manage to invest 10% of their after-tax income >>>>> equating to R30/month into the South African stock market. (Yes, >>>>> this was pre-Union, but we did say "equating to"). Remember this is >>>>> the sixties and an income of R300 is a very decent monthly wage. >>>>> >>>>> Year 45: Second generation: Wealth preservation >>>>> >>>>> The parents ensured that their three children didn't have to >>>>> experience hard times. The children attended decent enough schools >>>>> and were fortunate enough to mix with similarly privileged friends. >>>>> There is general unease in the family however, as the second >>>>> generation gain independence. >>>>> >>>>> The pressures of wanting to keep up with the lifestyles of their >>>>> wealthier friends, coupled with an unfortunate down-turn in the >>>>> economy, results in a halt in savings and as a result the R10.5m >>>>> family wealth no longer enjoys any debit order increases. In >>>>> addition, the capital base is required to maintain an income for the >>>>> folks who have now retired. >>>>> >>>>> Year 75: Third generation: Wealth destruction >>>>> >>>>> The second generation finally inherit the family wealth and it is >>>>> split three ways. By this time the R45,000/month comfortable family >>>>> living has ballooned to R600,000/month as a result of inflation. >>>>> Each family now only enjoys income from a capital base of R110m and, >>>>> because they themselves are approaching retirement they opt to >>>>> de-risk their portfolios, which results in the capital invested >>>>> unfortunately realising a more sedate 3% real rate of return. >>>>> >>>>> After a torturous revelation later on in life, one of the 3rd >>>>> generation children decided to carve out a career as a financial >>>>> advisor. She made the following insightful observations: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Her grandparents did a fantastic job of consistently placing 10% >>>>> of their monthly income into an equity investment over a 45 year period. >>>>> >>>>> 2. As they had generated sufficient capital to live off the dividend >>>>> income there from, her grandparents had stuck with their equity >>>>> investment throughout their retirement. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Unfortunately, her parents had failed to adopt a savings ethic >>>>> and they had relied optimistically on their inheritances to generate >>>>> their own retirement income. >>>>> >>>>> 4. The 3rd generation children (herself included) failed to >>>>> comprehend the importance of generating an income and as a result >>>>> were unable to adopt a savings plan or meet their own costs. >>>>> >>>>> Time to start again. >>>>> >>>>> *The Role Of Attitudes* >>>>> >>>>> Another interpretation of the expression involves the changing role of >>>>> attitudes towards debt and asset accumulation over time. This is how I >>>>> see it: >>>>> >>>>> Few alive remember the great depression. Most boomers headed into >>>>> retirement have seen rising asset prices all their lives. Those boomers >>>>> thought they could live off their houses and/or investments in the stock >>>>> market, expecting prices to rise forever, even though it was >>>>> mathematically impossible for that to happen. Now, headed into >>>>> retirement, boomers are realizing they are actually savings poor given >>>>> that asset prices have crashed. >>>>> >>>>> Moreover, children who have seen their parents wiped out in bankruptcy >>>>> or foreclosed on are going to have a completely different attitude >>>>> towards debt than their reckless parents did. Expect to see more >>>>> frugality from parents and their children alike. >>>>> >>>>> Three generations from now the lessons of today will have again been >>>>> forgotten and the cycle will repeat. >>>>> >>>>> Mike "Mish" Shedlock >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> I carry a firearm because I'm too tired to run, and too old to take a beating. >>>>> Joel, mount hope, USA >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >>> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >>> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 00:58:20 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:58:20 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking In-Reply-To: <5c154df70902111619u5036ed84u5959615aba03d145@mail.gmail.com> References: <400985d70902110603oef01d33u612b9cd68066d627@mail.gmail.com> <4992E0B5.8020405@effros.com> <04E10D05FD074433B84660914C3DF0C8@ebsoffice> <5c154df70902111105o4dcaccf8o9b62b9255c13a4ad@mail.gmail.com> <763F639F79224D94ADF797601A4221A8@ebsoffice> <49934BF1.3070603@effros.com> <5c154df70902111619u5036ed84u5959615aba03d145@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <400985d70902112158h34efe61ds8de70dbec087810f@mail.gmail.com> David, So you're up late and grumpy 6+ hours ahead, I'm up late and grumpy as well. What is greed? Why are you in Munich and not home manning the soup lines? Where is your humanity? CEO's of banks didn't point a gun at anyone and force them to sign fraudulent documents, they channeled that natural human instinct for "profit". Chairman Mao didn't turn his country upside down during the Cultural Revolution because it made good sense, it gave him a few more years in power. What you are asking us to believe in is that the government has more "better angels" than exists in the private sector. Ain't true. Let's talk Enron. First, the fallout - we got SOX. SOX killed IPO's in the US and now we don't do IPO's - too much record keeping. Second, we got "mark to market" rules. Ya wanna know why the banks are now insolvent on paper? Uhhhh, mark to market accounting rules? One thing I learned in four years of accounting undergraduate studies is that accounting is all BULLSHIT! Quick, what is 2+2? If you said 4 you're wrong. The correct answer is, "what do you want it to be?" When things sound too good to be true, they're too good to be true. We now have a new political savior that will lead us out of the "wilderness"? I don't know about you, but about 20 years into following Moses around in the desert I would have been strongly suggesting that he buy a GPS unit. Or, I would have simply cut a trail. Team Player. If I hear that term one more time in my career I may just puke at the instant it is uttered! Brad On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 6:19 PM, David Bradley wrote: > So, there is no line to be drawn? I really disagree. Enron, > illegeal. Dot.coms, good for a while but dumb. Flipping houses - you > win or you lose. The line exists, and logic says it was crossed. Not > by "little people" buying beyond their means, but by the banks making > the market by piling up the paper with no reserves. These guys are > not stupid. Greed and the fear of not delivering quarterly earnings > growth caused them to bury the facts on the risk they were taking. > The naysayer were silenced. They misled shareholders, failed to > disclose material information, and manipulated earnings and their > stock prices. That's illegal. If the Feds are too wimpy to go after > them, the Boards and CEOs of the banks should be subjected to massive > shareholder actions. A civil trial will get to the truth. There is > no @#$ way they didn't know they were putting their shareholders at > risk. I hear the FBI is hiring. > > The guys at the SEC who turned a deaf ear on Madoff should be > investigated - it's inconceivable that there wasn't a conspriacy > there. They should get private rooms in Danbury too. Might need to > build a new wing - maybe can pay for that with some stimulus money. > > Up late in Munich and grumpy, > > Dave > > > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Bill Effros wrote: >> Mike, >> >> I have zero sympathy for people who lose money in Ponzi schemes. >> >> There is a very simple rule -- "Don't invest in anything you can't >> understand." >> >> That's dot-coms; Enron; flipping houses; Madoff; derivatives; and everything >> else that simply makes no sense. >> >> Madoff got away with it for so long because the people investing with him >> were greedy and happily looked the other way. Most of the long-term >> investors probably took out more over the years than they put in. What did >> they care that it made no sense? They were pulling in their friends so >> Madoff would be able to pay them. >> >> They all thought they were so much smarter than the next person. In fact, >> they were smug in that belief. >> >> So they turned out to be wrong. >> >> Meanwhile, the government reaped huge taxes from imaginary profits on >> non-existent trades. >> >> No one had any incentive to state the obvious -- "The Emperor has no clothes >> on!" >> >> Fine. Nobody starves. People who have never worked are going to have to >> find some way to earn an honest living. >> >> B. >> >> >> >> >> Michael D. Weisner wrote: >> >> The teacher in me replies, "Ah, the student has finally asked the question >> that I am prepared to answer as the lesson to be learned." >> While the individuals have acted irresponsibly and perhaps unethically, the >> blame is on the government. It is not the function of government to create >> wealth but rather to maintain an environment within which the private sector >> can. The banking and finance industries belong to a very small set of ones >> in which I believe that regulation is required. This is not to change >> supply and demand but more to impose a set of rules to prevent fraud. >> I do not believe that there is an issue of business evils or even greed but >> rather condoning the fraudulent behaviors. You need to ask, "Why was a >> person like Madoff was permitted to operate outside the law for so long?" >> Unfortunately, he was only a $50B tip of a huge iceberg. >> Mike >> From: "David Bradley" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:05 PM >> >> >> So, MIke or Bill, who in this equation should go to jail, or put in >> stocks in the village square? Where do you guys draw the line between >> the "evils of big business" and "stupidity" and "greed"? >> Dave >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Michael D. Weisner >> wrote: >> >> >> Bill, >> Wait a minute! Let me get this straight. The guy in LA put $200K down >> on a >> $600K home 3 years ago and made interest payments on his $400K mortgage >> (no >> principal reduction.) The same home is selling for $150K across the >> street >> so he gives the bank the house ($200K unrecoverable loss) and moves to >> the >> house across the street with no money down on a $150K loan (stimulus >> loan?). >> I can understand that he might be happy (he will have paid the original >> $200K + $150K mortgage for the house) but the bank can't be happy as it >> is >> still looking for $250K more, since the collateral on the loan is only >> worth >> $150K. >> Of course, we, the taxpayers, will have provided the missing $250K to the >> bank through the bailout program so the bank is not out any money and the >> poor slob will get to write off his $200K "loss" on his tax return if the >> reform is passed. Next, you will tell me that he will buy his original >> home >> at a foreclosure sale for $150K (or less) as the bank attempts to reduce >> inventory before values drop further. >> What a f**king mess! Now tell me why I own my home, autos and boat >> outright, please. I know, I sleep better. >> Mike >> From: "Bill Effros" Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:29 AM >> >> >> Lots of problems with this. >> The central problem is that most homes can't be sold for what the banks >> currently have in them, and many won't ever be lived in again. >> Everyone with an "upside-down" mortgage should stop making mortgage >> payments immediately and start looking for a new home at the right >> price. >> I know a guy in LA who bought a home for $600,000 3 years ago, and had a >> $400,000 mortgage. There was no way for him to get $400,000 for the >> home, and he couldn't afford the interest payments. >> He just bought an identical home across the street for $150,000, and >> gave the bank the keys to his old home. He had no trouble getting >> financing for the $150,000 home, which he can afford. >> He's happy, the bank is happy, and maybe his neighbor will buy his old >> home... >> B. >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >> >> >From the Washington Post - >> Big Lessons in Finance From a Little Bank You've Never Heard Of >> By Steven Pearlstein >> Wednesday, February 11, 2009; D01 >> Wall Street is not pleased. >> Hunkered-down executives and hyperactive traders were more than a >> little disappointed with what they heard from our straight-shooting >> new Treasury secretary as he unveiled his plans for Bank Bailout 2.0. >> Not enough clarity, they complained. Still no light at the end of the >> tunnel, bemoaned others. Like spoiled, petulant children, they >> demonstrated their dissatisfaction by driving stock prices down >> another 5 percent. >> By now, I hope you've learned enough not to be taken in by the >> self-serving floor patter. These guys won't be happy until the >> government agrees to relieve them of every last one of their lousy >> loans and investments at inflated prices, recapitalize every major >> bank and brokerage and insurance company on sweetheart terms and >> restore them to the glory days, so they can once again earn inflated >> profits and obscene pay packages by screwing over their customers and >> their shareholders. >> For the Wall Street wise guys, bailout politics is just another game >> to be played, another market to be manipulated, another set of risks >> to be arbitraged. >> Later today, nine Titans of Finance will testify before the unwieldy >> House Financial Services Committee about the fine mess they have got >> us into and how the first $350 billion in bank bailout money was used. >> The chief executives have probably wised up enough to know to leave >> the Gulfstream back home and fly in commercial with the hoi polloi. >> But don't hold your breath waiting for an expression of contrition or >> gratitude, let alone any clarity on their own plans for using the >> government's bailout money. >> In that regard, the committee probably would have learned more if >> they'd left the big boys to wallow in their gilded bunkers and invited >> Kim Price up from Gastonia, N.C. >> Price is the president of Citizens South, a 104-year-old community >> bank with about $800 million in assets, 15 offices and 150 employees >> that operates in the shadow and under the radar of the big national >> banks -- Bank of America and Wachovia -- headquartered across the >> river in Charlotte. >> Citizens is among the stronger and more conservative banks in the >> Charlotte market. Despite setting aside $3.2 million last year for >> expected loan losses, the bank managed to post a profit of $3.1 >> million, down from $5.7 million the year before. Citizens never got >> into subprime lending or 100 percent loans, and for its caution lost a >> lot of business during the go-go years. Now, however, its reward is >> that its nonperforming loans are less than half of 1 percent of all >> its loans. >> Like many healthy banks, Citizens late last year figured it was in for >> a tough couple of years with the national recession and the continued >> turmoil in financial services, which anchors the regional economy. So >> it applied and won $20.5 million in bailout funds from the Treasury >> Department on the usual terms requiring a 5 percent annual dividend >> payment to the government. A few weeks ago, while reading a newspaper >> article, Price came up with an ingenious plan for how to use it. >> The article was about the reluctance of people to buy a house in the >> current market, and what kinds of incentives had been used >> successfully by builders and bankers to get them to close a deal. Two >> stood out: lower rates and the waiving of closing costs. And that got >> Price to thinking: What if Citizens were to use its federal bailout >> money to offer below-market mortgage rates with no closing costs to >> consumers who would buy a house, or a house lot, from builders and >> developers who had borrowed money from Citizens? >> Price asked some of his loan officers to check with the builders and >> developers, who not surprisingly were excited enough about the project >> to be willing to chip in some money to help cover a portion of the >> forgone closing costs. So last week, Citizens launched its marketing >> campaign for the $20.5 million program, in collaboration with its >> builder-developer customers, offering 30-year loans with an initial >> teaser rate of 3.5 percent for the first two years, rising to a fixed >> 5.5 percent rate (the current market rate) for the balance of the >> loan. >> "As we see it, it's a win-win-win situation all round," Price >> explained to me. The builders and developers win by having a tool to >> help move their unsold inventory. The consumer wins by getting a >> cut-rate loan. And Citizens wins because it lowers the risk that it >> will have to write off even more of its commercial loans while taking >> a modest step to help stimulate the local economy. And, of course, the >> public relations bump isn't bad either. >> What's striking, however, is the attitude Price expresses in talking >> of the new program. He's enough of a profit-making businessman to know >> that when the government is offering 5 percent equity money, he'd be a >> damn fool not to take it, even if his bank is already well >> capitalized. And yet he's sensitive enough about obligation that he >> feels comes with taking taxpayer money that he was anxious to use it >> in a visible way to benefit his community and his customers, as well >> as his shareholders. >> In truth, Citizens won't literally be using its federal bailout money >> to make these mortgage loans. In fact, no bank would -- using money >> that costs 5 percent to make 5.5 percent loans won't get you very far >> in the banking business. But what each dollar of government capital >> does for Citizens, or any other bank, is give it the ability to go out >> and borrow another $9 from depositors or the Federal Home Loan Bank at >> a rate of 2.5 percent or less. >> By the way, Kim Price would have had no trouble meeting the Obama >> administration's new $500,000 salary cap for executives at banks >> taking bailout money. His total pay package last year was $456,146, >> including a base salary of $250,000; a bonus of $64,800; $63,920 worth >> of Citizens stock; and $33,415 in other perks, including country club >> membership and a company car (driver not included). >> And get this: Somehow the directors of Citizens South managed to >> attract and retain a chief executive who turned in respectable profits >> during good times and bad, and yet was able to pay him only 10 times >> the salary of the average employee. Pretty neat, huh? >> So here's a question the House Financial Services Committee might put >> to the Titans of Finance: How is it that Kim Price, a community banker >> with an undergraduate degree from Appalachian State University, a tiny >> executive staff and a pay package that you would consider insulting, >> somehow managed to come up with a more creative use for his government >> bailout money than any of you? >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> -- >> David Bradley >> +1.206.234.3977 >> dwbrad at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SwiftwaterGazette mailing list >> SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com >> http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette >> >> > > > > -- > David Bradley > +1.206.234.3977 > dwbrad at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 07:39:28 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:39:28 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics - Behind Closed Doors Message-ID: <400985d70902120439p79587562se007cc2d55ac01ff@mail.gmail.com> The most transparent government ever? "I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists ? and won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not run my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president." -- Barack Obama, Speech in Des Moines, IA November 10, 200 Here's the reality - http://tinyurl.com/ajq37j This is the largest spending bill in the history of the nation and no debate! Hope. Change. You betcha! Brad From ekroposki at charter.net Thu Feb 12 08:39:03 2009 From: ekroposki at charter.net (Ed Kroposki) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:39:03 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking, David, Bill E., and Message-ID: <1CC1B3600DCF42EFA7A841CB57758FB3@YOURB88038198E> David, Read Bill's comment, "It was a nationwide Ponzi scheme, and almost everyone was content with it as long as the good times were rolling. Now everyone is looking for someone to blame." There was a time in American education there were comments and discussions of morality and honesty in the classroom. Then we get the "Separation of State from Religion crowd." Separating ethics from religion has been a big factor in this situation. Thinking that more government will correct problems is naive. People are people, and even the best will occasionally slip on the slippery slope. When you are up to your ass in alligators it is easy and reasonable to forget that you are being paid to drain the swamp. I am sorry but I do not know anyone alive today who is perfect 100% of the time. You have seen me say before that we need a Sheriff. And the Sheriff needs constant oversight. The Sheriff was (1) first the SEC, (2) which ever agency if any that controls accounting practice (Mark to Market, etc.) and Federal and State banking supervisory agencies. The oversight of the Sheriff was Congress and state legislative committees. Ask where was proper oversight! In common law there is a concept of "Fiduciary Duty". Where is our old friend Ben C now? There should be several law suits as class actions against the officers and boards of companies holding 'toxic' assets. Let a jury decide if a fiduciary duty was breached. In civil court they would generally not be allowed to invoke the 5th amendment. Bush said that we had to fix the problem and not lay blame. Well he is wrong. We will not rest until the truth is spoken, the whole truth. Socialism is not the answer. Brad has said reasons why so often. He has a wife and had a father in law who have understanding navigating thru the alligator swamp. Walter Williams, a professor of economics has spoken to the issues that you and Bill have presented: First is his discussion of a "Ponzi Scheme": http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams020409.php3 Second, is discussion of the "Liberal" bailout plan. Read that is your man's and Hillary's bailout. And throw in three Rino's, to boot: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams021109.php3 I said it before the election and I say it again, Barry is a con man. He is an evangelist of socialism. Socialism fails because it kills human initiative and freedoms. One of those freedoms is to speak out. And go back to November 2008 to William's column. Read about giving noble sounding expressions of evil: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams111908.php3 Now think of all your fellow believers in what is called liberalism, progressivism, National Democratic Party policies and march on. Ed K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090212/daffdd72/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090212/daffdd72/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 02/11/09 18:11:00 From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 08:47:46 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:47:46 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Banking, David, Bill E., and In-Reply-To: <1CC1B3600DCF42EFA7A841CB57758FB3@YOURB88038198E> References: <1CC1B3600DCF42EFA7A841CB57758FB3@YOURB88038198E> Message-ID: <400985d70902120547u4df33470h2cd9e52369d8bc53@mail.gmail.com> Ed, Not everyone has been fooled. Here is a website started by a New Hampshire businessman who donated $100,000 to start the site and to fight the "stimulus" bill - http://www.stewardofprosperity.org/ What makes this even more interesting is that this man voted for The One and donated the maximum amount to his campaign. Now (albeit too late) he realizes that The One is a garden variety socialist. This monstrosity of a bill is nothing but 100% pure political payoff. Will we survive it? I will, but I'm not so sure about my kids and grandkids. Brad On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Ed Kroposki wrote: > David, > > Read Bill's comment, "It was a nationwide Ponzi scheme, and almost everyone > was content with > it as long as the good times were rolling. Now everyone is looking for > someone to blame." > > There was a time in American education there were comments and discussions > of morality and honesty in the classroom. Then we get the "Separation of > State from Religion crowd." Separating ethics from religion has been a big > factor in this situation. Thinking that more government will correct > problems is naive. > > People are people, and even the best will occasionally slip on the slippery > slope. When you are up to your ass in alligators it is easy and reasonable > to forget that you are being paid to drain the swamp. I am sorry but I do > not know anyone alive today who is perfect 100% of the time. > > You have seen me say before that we need a Sheriff. And the Sheriff needs > constant oversight. The Sheriff was (1) first the SEC, (2) which ever > agency if any that controls accounting practice (Mark to Market, etc.) and > Federal and State banking supervisory agencies. The oversight of the > Sheriff was Congress and state legislative committees. Ask where was proper > oversight! > > In common law there is a concept of "Fiduciary Duty". Where is our old > friend Ben C now? There should be several law suits as class actions > against the officers and boards of companies holding 'toxic' assets. Let a > jury decide if a fiduciary duty was breached. In civil court they would > generally not be allowed to invoke the 5th amendment. > > Bush said that we had to fix the problem and not lay blame. Well he is > wrong. We will not rest until the truth is spoken, the whole truth. > > Socialism is not the answer. Brad has said reasons why so often. He has a > wife and had a father in law who have understanding navigating thru the > alligator swamp. > > Walter Williams, a professor of economics has spoken to the issues that you > and Bill have presented: > > First is his discussion of a "Ponzi Scheme": > http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams020409.php3 > > Second, is discussion of the "Liberal" bailout plan. Read that is your > man's and Hillary's bailout. And throw in three Rino's, to boot: > http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams021109.php3 > > I said it before the election and I say it again, Barry is a con man. He is > an evangelist of socialism. Socialism fails because it kills human > initiative and freedoms. One of those freedoms is to speak out. > > And go back to November 2008 to William's column. Read about giving noble > sounding expressions of evil: > http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams111908.php3 > > Now think of all your fellow believers in what is called liberalism, > progressivism, National Democratic Party policies and march on. > > Ed K > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 02/11/09 > 18:11:00 > > _______________________________________________ > SwiftwaterGazette mailing list > SwiftwaterGazette at mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com > http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/swiftwatergazette > > From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 12:14:24 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:14:24 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Economics - Free Markets Message-ID: <400985d70902120914j712c86cfuc918eaf19cb5675c@mail.gmail.com> Here is a very instructional chart on how free markets behave compared to government intervened markets - http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6775.html Ask yourselves a few questions. How many people go hungry in China under capitalism versus communism? (Hint - there's roughly 1.3 Billion people to help with your math). What's the latest model car out of Cuba? How many appliances do you own made in North Korea? What brand of computer do you use designed and engineered from a European country? Rationale markets hate uncertainty. Obama hung out with slum lords (do a Google search on Parc Grove and/or Valerie Jarret or Rezmar Properties) and the result was what? The only successful real estate deal the man ever pulled off was buying a house in Bill Ayers neighborhood with help from convicted felon Rezko. And you wonder why people with capital are nervous? Exactly why? Welcome to HopenChange (tm). Where do we go from here and what should we do? I don't have a freaking clue! I've read a history book or two about similar situations and the outcome wasn't pretty. Where is that articulate leader I was promised? Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh ...........................................UH. Brad From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 12 12:20:51 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:20:51 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politcs: Want to buy an ethanol plant? Message-ID: Want to buy an ethanol plant? No, Brad, not a just the cornfield but the whole darn plant!http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/business/12ethanol.html?_r=1&ref=business "The ethanol industry is on its back despite the billions of dollars they have gotten in taxpayer assistance, and a guaranteed market," said Amy Myers Jaffe, an energy analyst at Rice University. VeraSun Energy, one of the nation's largest ethanol producers, has suspended production at 12 of its 16 plants and is planning to sell production facilities. In recent days Renew Energy, Cascade Grain Products and Northeast Biofuels have filed for bankruptcy protection. Pacific Ethanol said it would suspend operations at its Madera, Calif. plant. Senator Bingaman said: "There's no doubt when we wrote that bill, we did not anticipate the recession we are currently sinking into," he said. "Exactly what that requires us to do as far as changing the law, I am not clear on yet." Gee, I sure hope that they don't come looking for "bailout bucks." Thanks for the early warning about ethanol. Maybe it will just go away and I won't have to worry about phase separation in stored (marine) fuel, although I sincerely doubt it. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090212/fdfc9b8a/attachment.html From mweisner at ebsmed.com Thu Feb 12 12:42:49 2009 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:42:49 -0500 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politics: What a difference a year or so can make Message-ID: <9773B7DFAB2A493BA9EECDB7A0F8F687@ebsoffice> Last year investors couldn't throw money into the Alberta Oil Sands projects fast enough. There were reports of a new Saudi Arabia, just 500 miles north of the US. We were going to switch our oil imports to Alberta, now that extraction of oil from sands is profitable (with oil at $130+/barrel.) Even 60 Minutes did a show on it: The Oil Sands Of Alberta: Where Black Gold And Riches Can Be Found In The Sand http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/20/60minutes/main1225184.shtml The big concern was over the greenhouse gases emitted by the processing of the sands to release the oil. The environmentalists went nuts. The ducks were endangered! The water in the region was being drained. The oil sands were a major cause of Global Warming! http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/oil-sands-via-google-earth.php And then, the financial crisis killed the demand for oil. The price is now at $34/barrel and still slipping. So much for the Alberta oil sands. So much for the Saudi of the North. The supporters will probably never recover their basic investments. http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/005791.html Plunging global oil demand has torn a gaping hole in Canada's trade picture - and Alberta's economy - and forecasters see further erosion in demand and pressure on prices through the first half of this year. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090212.RTRADEOIL12/TPStory/Business When are people going to learn that the risk involved in trying to make a "killing in the market" overnight means that you can lose it all in a flash? So many "normal" everyday people, who should not have become investors in these projects, dumped comparatively huge portions of their net worth into these get-rich-quick ventures only to lose everything in a year or less. As the leading player in the musical "Pippin" says, "You ain't seen nothin' yet!" Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theswiftwatergazette.com/pipermail/swiftwatergazette/attachments/20090212/95f1263e/attachment.html From flybrad at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 12:44:45 2009 From: flybrad at gmail.com (Brad Haslett) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:44:45 -0600 Subject: [Swiftwater Gazette] Politcs: Want to buy an ethanol plant? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400985d70902120944q7ce8b714l1c9c4e0a52923cd7@mail.gmail.com> Mike, People think I make this shit up as I go. The guy who started the ethanol business at ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) is a client and friend of my best friend of 30 years in Decatur, Illinois. ADM is the biggest corn and soybean processor in the world which might explain why Decatur smells bad on most days. The soil around Decatur is so rich you can stick a shovel in it 6 inches deep and grow a backhoe. Speaking of which, my brother/partner worked in the CAT factory in Decatur for ten years before starting his own construction company. Where were we? Oh yeah, ethanol. ADM found a way to make corn more expensive. The CEO's son found a way to make lysine more expensive and went to jail for it, but I digress. Ethanol is one of the biggest scams ever pulled on the ignorant, er, I mean public. Gotta go, a black Crown Victoria just pulled into my driveway! Brad On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > Want to buy an ethanol plant? > > No, Brad, not a just the cornfield but the whole darn > plant!http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/business/12ethanol.html?_r=1&ref=business > > "The ethanol industry is on its back despite the billions of dollars th